UPDATE 2: Manafort jury suggests it 'cannot come to a consensus on a single count'

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: Washington Post



The jury in the trial of President Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort indicated Tuesday it is split on at least one count -- sending a note asking the judge for instructions on how to proceed.

Around 11 a.m. of the panel's fourth day of deliberations, a note with a question came from the jury foreman, asking how jurors should fill out the verdict form "if we cannot come to a consensus on a single count," said U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III. The jury also asked what that would mean for the final verdict, Ellis said.

Though the meaning of the note wasn't entirely clear from its wording, the judge apparently took the panel's note to mean that they are stuck on a single count, not all of them.

Ellis said the note was "not an exceptional or unusual event in a jury trial," and he distributed to the lawyers an instruction he proposed giving to jurors. He said he first planned to read his proposed instruction, though he would later likely asked jurors whether they had reached a unanimous decision on other counts, and, if so, where they stood on those. The judge took a five minute recess to let the lawyers consider his proposed instruction.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/08/21/manafort-jury-suggests-they-cannot-come-to-a-consensus-on-a-single-count/?utm_term=.9ba4915c148b

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WaPo keeps changing the headline and text narrative. Have included the latest iteration. Obviously even DU readers were having issues with it.

I figured as much - with 18 charges, they have to agree on what to do with each one.

UPDATE 1 article/title -

Manafort jury indicates it can not reach a consensus on all counts

BREAKING: The jury in Paul Manafort's fraud case indicated in a note Tuesday that it is struggling to reach a unanimous verdict on all 18 tax- and bank-fraud charges.

The six-woman, six-man jury in the trial of President Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort began its fourth day of deliberations on Tuesday.

U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III summoned jurors into the courtroom a little after 9:35 a.m. As occurs each morning, the clerk called out each juror's number, and each responded they were "here" or "present." The judge asked them to confirm that they had not done any independent research, then set them back to resume their work.

Manafort, who has worked on Republican presidential campaigns dating back to Gerald Ford, faces 18 bank fraud and tax charges. The trial in Alexandria, Va., began three weeks ago, and the jury began deliberating on Thursday.

Original article/title -

Manafort jury suggests they 'cannot come to a consensus on a single count'

By Washington Post Staff
August 21 at 11:50 AM

The jury in Paul Manafort's fraud case said it is split on at least one count. The panel of six men and six women indicated in a note Tuesday that it is struggling to reach a unanimous verdict on at least one of the 18 tax- and bank-fraud charges brought by the special counsel in federal court in Alexandria, Va.

This is a developing story. It will be updated.

[MFM008]

1. Ok

I heard one legal guy say he expected
At least a 5 count verdict..

[BumRushDaShow]

4. It's interesting but WaPo very quickly updated their headline

from "on a single count" to "on all counts".

[Maraya1969]

16. It's 12:14 and it says "a single count"

[BumRushDaShow]

18. Yup - that was their original breaking headline

and that is what they returned back to after muddling through an update. I included each iteration in the comments section.

[GemDigger]

2. I would not want to be on that jury.

[Chicago1980]

3. Of the 12, I wonder if any are die-hard Trumpers?

They wouldn't convict for anything.

[Mz Pip]

6. This

It just takes one.

[not fooled]

17. Yep

If so, I hope the story comes out.

After all, there's no truth or facts.

[Delphinus]

50. And the judge

has already said he's not going to make public the jury list.

[barbtries]

19. or one was got to.

it only takes one.

[lagomorph777]

33. Judge TS Idiot convinced one juror that it isn't fraud if you have an inside conspirator.

[barbtries]

45. another option.

if they've decided on 17 out of 18 though that makes me hopeful for guilty verdicts.

[lagomorph777]

47. Seems likely there are many guilty verdicts on the list.

And hung jury on the one count that the judge messed with.

[barbtries]

53. we should know soon.

[underpants]

5. WOW I totally misread the WaPo headline

I thought it was saying they couldn't reach a verdict an ANY counts.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. They changed the headline from

"on a single count" to "on all counts" and then the article seems to suggest that of the 18, there are some that are apparently in question.

I think that is why the jury question to the judge about "reasonable doubt" (which is the criminal statue test) and I expect there will be some counts that he will probably be acquitted on if they are struggling right now with those particular ones.

[underpants]

25. Yes the teaser news pop up headline I get

was different from the headline when I hit the link.

[Recursion]

22. Same here

Fast scoops make bad headlines sometimes.

[mobeau69]

32. i.e. King v. Burwell

[pangaia]

49. Actually, I don't think you necessarily misread it. it was poorly worded...

[LiberalFighter]

7. Headlines can be misinterpreted or misleading.

At first glance, it would seem that they can't decide on any of the counts. But it just means they have decided on some.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. WaPo has changed their headline 2 times now

I have the latest - which was close to what the original one was when it first went out as a breaking news alert.

[herding cats]

9. Ok, today could well be verdict day.

It appears they may be in agreement on 17 (!) cases and are hung on one count.

I'm almost optimistic right now.

[beachbum bob]

12. It's over. The prosecution can take a no decision on one count

[herding cats]

15. I agree.

There's the fact that the judge appears to want them to continue their deliberations on this one count still, but the end is in sight. If they still cannot agree on it then he'll instruct them of the third option, a hung jury on that one count.

[beachbum bob]

10. They don't have have consensus on all counts, bad headline and they can say one count

Is undecided. Does not effect the findings on other 17 at all. So this is almost done either today or tomorrow for sure.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. Yes - WaPo just changed the headline again so I included the latest.

[rsdsharp]

14. Consensus is an incorrect word here.

Conviction, on any of the 18 counts requires unanimity. A 9-3 vote on a count is a "consensus." It would also be a hung jury on that count.

[BumRushDaShow]

20. I interpreted "consensus" as meaning "agreeing to go unanimous" (either way) on a count.

[Dopers_Greed]

21. My prediction is a good number of guilty counts

Last edited Tue Aug 21, 2018, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)

A couple of the more complex charges have probably taken up most of the deliberation time.

[Grammy23]

23. It seems that the jury itself (with no assistance from the court)

Had to match up the evidence with each count. With 18 counts and piles of evidence to match up, that would account for why they did not reach a verdict last week. The task of putting evidence together with counts had to be an arduous task. Then they had to consider each count paired with the evidence. These people will probably need a vacation when this is over. Maybe that will happen later today.

[lagomorph777]

35. TS Idiot deliberately split evidence from charges

just to confuse the jury.

[Cicada]

31. Odds of acquittal dropped from 14% to 7% at Predictit

Manafort will be convicted of something by dec 31 2018 is a market on Predictit. Just now no has fallen from 14% to 7%.

Predictit is legal in the US. These betting markets seem pretty good. I think I read they predict elections better than polls. Admiral Poindexter, who was honorable in confessing guilt for Iran Contra, was resurrected by W Bush and tried to create a market to help CIA predictions. But the public was not ready for bets on whether Angela Merkel will be assassinated by Dec 31 etc.

I think he was just ahead of his time.

[C_U_L8R]

24. I think the WP means "an individual count"

Isn't language their craft?

[NurseJackie]

27. I know... it's a terribly-worded headline. Ambiguous and easily misunderstood. Not precise at all.

[underpants]

29. Yeah they screwed this up several ways

As many posters are pointing out.

I totally misread the teaser pop up headline

[33taw]

26. WAPO may be simply quoting the question. Which could be confusing.

[beachbum bob]

28. Maybe they want another lunch?

[RockRaven]

30. An ambiguous quote paraphrased multiple different ways... that's some good click-bait right there

We will find out the result when we find out the result. No use depending on WaPo this time for anything other than raising your blood pressure, it seems.

[Texin]

34. Clear as mud. Hasn't anyone heard of someone saying "we don't agree on a single issue"?

That's they way a reader would conclude their article with its original sentence construction.

[lagomorph777]

36. "There is a single count we don't agree on."

[edbermac]

37. The counts:

FALSE TAX RETURNS - FIVE COUNTS

FAILURE TO REPORT FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNTS - FOUR COUNTS

LOANS FROM CITIZENS BANK - THREE COUNTS

LOAN FROM BANC OF CALIFORNIA - TWO COUNTS

LOANS FROM THE FEDERAL SAVINGS BANK - FOUR COUNTS

Wonder which one they have an issue with?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort-charges-fac/factbox-ex-trump-aide-paul-manafort-faces-18-criminal-counts-idUSKCN1L50VB

[BumRushDaShow]

39. Thank you!

[pecosbob]

38. Headline should read 'BREAKING: Manafort jury has apparently reached verdict on 17 counts '

[workinclasszero]

41. Right

Guilty or innocent on those 17 counts?

[pecosbob]

42. We remain on our seat's edge

but given that evidence was primarily documentary, I'd say he's toast!

[workinclasszero]

43. I hope so

Worse case scenario the 17 counts are innocent and deadlocked on one guilty.

Would that mean an automatic retrial with a different non trumpster judge and a different jury?

[pecosbob]

51. Here's this from Seth Abramson...

[link:

Link to tweet

|]

[honest.abe]

57. Exactly.

[Chemisse]

40. If the note from the jury said, 'cannot come to a consensus on a single count',

that could be interpreted 2 ways - they can't agree on any of the counts, not a single one, or there is just one they are having trouble with.

Maybe the fluctuating headlines reflects confusion about how that was meant.

[DeminPennswoods]

44. The jurors also asked how that would effect the final verdict

That suggests to me that the jurors want to make sure that reaching a different verdict on a single count than all the rest doesn't invalidate their verdict on the other charges. If, for ex, they decided Manafort is guilty on 17 counts, does a not guilty decision on the 18th count mean Manafort is not guilty of all charges. It's the same should they decide to acquit on 17 counts and convict on the 18th.

It just seems like jury is doing their due diligence. I'd speculate if Ellis told them they must reach the same decision on each count, then the jury would find a way to come to consensus on any count where they did not agree.

[RhodeIslandOne]

59. Trump will celebrate that it's 10-8 for Manafort

His idiot supporters will lap it up like a dog eating it's own vomit.

[GopherGal]

60. Yep.

They're gullible enough to not realize it's actually 0-8-10

[Fla Dem]

46. It would appear that if the jury cannot agree on just one count, the judge will then have to decide

if he will accept any of the verdicts.

Jury in Manafort trial: What if we can't agree on 1 count?
MATTHEW BARAKAT, CHAD DAY and ERIC TUCKER 1 hr ago

<<<<snip

He said that he was not yet prepared to ask the jury where they stood on the indictment, but that if they cannot reach an agreement on a single count after continued deliberation, he will have to decide whether to accept a partial verdict.

more>>>

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jury-in-manafort-trial-what-if-we-cant-agree-on-1-count/ar-BBMe2uk?li=BBnb7Kz

[pangaia]

48. Having had newspaper articles, reviews, etc, written about work I and associates

did back in the day, this doesn't surprise me in the least. I could almost be rolling in laughter...

For the most part, in spite of the fine journalists among us, in my experience your 'everyday reporter' too often does NOT have a full grasp about that which the/she writes....about.... which....(You can see I am NOT a writer?)

And the GREAT ART of too much journalism is HEADLINE WRITING - think about it..

[Snellius]

52. With 18 counts against him one less may spare him a few weeks of his 305 years. nt

[neohippie]

54. I think they couldn't decide...

they were stuck between, guilty, guilty as sin, or unquestionably guilty

[tavernier]

55. I wonder which count is confusing them?

I bet it’s the one that asks for the death sentence for owning jackets made out of gorilla foreskins.

(I swear, wouldn’t have surprised me a bit)

[Mad-in-Mo]

56. LOL.

I'm sure it is this one.

[alfredo]

58. They have settled 8 counts.