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Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:37 PM

Trumps Lawyer Raised Prospect of Pardons for Flynn and Manafort as Special Counsel Closed In

Source: New York Times

WASHINGTON ó A lawyer for President Trump broached the idea of Mr. Trump pardoning two of his former top advisers, Michael T. Flynn and Paul Manafort, with their lawyers last year, according to three people with knowledge of the discussions.

The discussions came as the special counsel was building cases against both men, and they raise questions about whether the lawyer, John Dowd, was offering pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and cooperate in the investigation.

The talks suggest that Mr. Trumpís lawyers were concerned about what Mr. Flynn and Mr. Manafort might reveal were they to cut a deal with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, in exchange for leniency. Mr. Muellerís team could investigate the prospect that Mr. Dowd made pardon offers to thwart the inquiry, although legal experts are divided about whether such offers might constitute obstruction of justice.

Mr. Dowdís conversation with Mr. Flynnís lawyer, Robert K. Kelner, occurred sometime after Mr. Dowd took over last summer as the presidentís personal lawyer, at a time when a grand jury was hearing evidence against Mr. Flynn on a range of potential crimes. Mr. Flynn, who served as Mr. Trumpís first national security adviser, agreed in late November to cooperate with the special counselís investigation. He pleaded guilty in December to lying to the F.B.I. about his conversations with the Russian ambassador and received favorable sentencing terms.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/politics/trump-pardon-michael-flynn-paul-manafort-john-dowd.html

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Reply Trumps Lawyer Raised Prospect of Pardons for Flynn and Manafort as Special Counsel Closed In (Original post)
brooklynite Mar 2018 OP
OliverQ Mar 2018 #1
flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #2
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #5
flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #8
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #9
grantcart Mar 2018 #12
George II Mar 2018 #3
Dave Starsky Mar 2018 #14
brooklynite Mar 2018 #4
Gothmog Mar 2018 #6
The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2018 #7
grantcart Mar 2018 #10
Wellstone ruled Mar 2018 #11
Cosmocat Mar 2018 #16
Wellstone ruled Mar 2018 #17
Botany Mar 2018 #13
Gothmog Mar 2018 #15
dreamland Mar 2018 #18

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:39 PM

1. Trump is going to try and pardon his way out of this.

 

And stupidly, the pardon power is nearly absolute.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:39 PM

2. Sounds like a Quid Pro Quo for Obstruction of Justice

Also sounds like a "constitutional crisis". Imagine: A sitting president, being investigated, pardons those who refused to testify against him.

Even if all that goes unchallenged (unlikely), it doesn't stop the states from prosecuting.

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:42 PM

5. If he pardons them before proceedings are finished, then they have no 5th and must testify. . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:45 PM

8. What are the penalties for failing to testify after pardoned? I'm guessing less than whatever they

were originally charged with?

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:54 PM

9. Unlimited. Because the court can keep him in jail until he does testify.


As a practical matter, it may be less and the court may give up and declare the testimony moot at some point.

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:59 PM

12. Wouldn't failure to testify after pardoned open up a completely new obstruction of justice


liability and require yet another pardon? lol

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:40 PM

3. Not sure about Flynn, but Manafort can/will be subject to NYS charges, not pardonable.

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Response to George II (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 02:14 PM

14. And accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

So he would be hosed at the state level.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:41 PM

4. I hear that "coffee boy" George Papadopoulos spilled some on Trump and said "pardon me...".

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:43 PM

6. It is too late to pardon Flynn

As part of his plea deal, Flynn has been interviewed and have given the Mueller team every fact that he has on trump. If pardoned, Flynn would still have to testify and the facts given in the interviews would be used if Flynn is not cooperative

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:44 PM

7. Sounds like another attempt at obstruction of justice.

"If you promise not to tell Mueller what I did, I'll pardon you later. If you do tell him what I did, I won't pardon you and you'll go to prison."

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:56 PM

10. Dowd is going to need an attorney lol

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:58 PM

11. After Yesterday's Mueller Filings,

 

and what we can glean from it. We have two key Person's facing Treason Charges. If the Republicans and Trump think they can Pardon their way out of that,their Party will be DOA.

The last time I recall Treason being charged was the Rosenberg's. Others have been charged with giving info to a Hostile Power but never Treason.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 03:16 PM

16. Wait

I missed these filings, can you link them?

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 03:48 PM

17. As per msnbc and huff post web page.

 

If you have the time,there are some thirty pages of filings,principally focused on Gates,you will notice the connection to Manafort.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 02:05 PM

13. Too late now

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210424464

Flynn has pleaded guilty and Manafort's #1 man, Gates is singing like a bird.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 02:52 PM

15. Boom

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 08:42 PM

18. Can you pardon treason?

To pardon them means they are guilty. You can't pardon someone who is not guilty. Can treason be pardon?

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