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Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:34 AM

 

On Day 2 of shutdown, Trump suggests nuclear option in Senate

Source: Washington Post

The president wants a rule change to allow a simple majority to pass a spending bill to end the impasse. Trump pressured Congress to reach an agreement amid deep uncertainty over whether Democrats and Republicans could find enough common ground. On Capitol Hill, lawmakers were set for another tense day, and the start of the workweek for many federal employees is less than 24 hours away. The Senate was expected to reconvene at 1 p.m.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/trump-launches-new-round-of-partisan-attacks-as-government-shutdown-hits-day-2/2018/01/21/0560aece-fe35-11e7-a46b-a3614530bd87_story.html



Here it comes

24 replies, 3492 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply On Day 2 of shutdown, Trump suggests nuclear option in Senate (Original post)
Le Gaucher Jan 2018 OP
BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #1
yallerdawg Jan 2018 #4
BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #8
yallerdawg Jan 2018 #21
BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #24
paleotn Jan 2018 #17
Volaris Jan 2018 #2
SummerSnow Jan 2018 #3
Ligyron Jan 2018 #5
honest.abe Jan 2018 #6
Ligyron Jan 2018 #9
honest.abe Jan 2018 #11
BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #13
honest.abe Jan 2018 #14
BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #16
honest.abe Jan 2018 #18
duforsure Jan 2018 #7
oberliner Jan 2018 #10
bmbmd Jan 2018 #22
bucolic_frolic Jan 2018 #12
William Seger Jan 2018 #15
keithbvadu2 Jan 2018 #19
Prue Jan 2018 #20
TomCADem Jan 2018 #23

Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:40 AM

1. The Senate itself would have to vote on the rules change

and they are usually loathe to get rid of their ability to filibuster. There are too many blowhards in there who like the tool.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:53 AM

4. "Loathe to get rid of?"

Everything they have done in the last year has been 51 votes.

Cabinet picks, Federal judges, Supreme Court justice, Tax Cut bill.

We just fell into their trap! The R's will not tolerate ongoing Democratic obstruction, and now - like it or not - Democrats have shutdown the government.

If we don't end this NOW, the only thing they will be working on will be the "nuclear option."

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:14 AM

8. Yes, "loathe to get rid of"



When it comes to general legislation....

The previous "nuclear option" was regarding confirmations, where the vast majority are done by unanimous consent and where the more critical appointments had the ability to filibuster until recently.

Turtle could do a kamikaze move and try to change the rule but I expect there are a few GOPers who would not go along and all they need is 2 of them to object. I.e., with McLame no longer voting, the real split is "50 - 49".

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:56 AM

21. Our experience lately is that an Administration has two years to nail its agenda.

4 years or 8 years, they get the first 2 years, and then it's divided government. It's what the American people do.

Now. Would R's rather "negotiate" with a couple other R's to get to 50 - or at least 10 Democrats to get to 60?




Twitter-in-Chief:

Great to see how hard Republicans are fighting for our Military and Safety at the Border. The Dems just want illegal immigrants to pour into our nation unchecked. If stalemate continues, Republicans should go to 51% (Nuclear Option) and vote on real, long term budget, no C.R.ís!

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 02:21 PM

24. Problem is

When Democrats had control after the 2008 election, they were able to reach the 60 vote threshold by the summer of 2009 when Arlen Specter switched parties. In this current case, the split is so much closer, which is why the conundrum has come up. There are a bunch of moderate (D) Senators and even an (I) - Angus - who could conceivably flip for certain things.

However they are dealing with a President who the least popular in history, and they are also dealing with some rumbles of "wave" that seems to exceed what happened in 2010 with the teabaggers.

The only things they have in their back pocket as a stopgap are that if by some miracle, Democrats took over Congress -

(1) Drumpf could do like Obama did and threaten to veto or veto anything that was not acceptable (and there would not be enough to override)

(2) Democrats tend to be more "reasonable" and might consider re-instituting the rule for the Senate's survival's sake (which would cause our base to have a fit), which would lock out our agenda upon the next flip.

In reality - they got what they really really wanted - the tax cuts for the rich. Anything else is icing on the cake at this point (like killing the ACA by slowly taking away its funding mechanisms).

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:02 AM

17. No, the Dems have not shut down the government.

Shit Gibbon shut down the government by blowing up the Senate deal he originally agreed to. A deal that would have easily passed the House with some Dem votes and we wouldn't be talking about this.

With the filibuster, it depends on if the Rethugs miscalculate the impact of the shutdown, ie. who's to blame. If they think it actually hurts the Dems, whether it actually does or not, they will leave well enough alone. That is McConnell's first inclination. Then again, they could go for broke and see everything they've done easily reversed in a couple elections cycles or less. I really don't think McConnell will go there, but time will tell.

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:44 AM

2. lol...oh please oh please oh PLEASE let them be dumb enough to do as Dear Leader commands...

getting rid of the filibuster for spending bills would be the last nail if these idiots lose control of the house of representatives in november (which looks more and more like a possibility).

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Response to Volaris (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:49 AM

3. You took the words right out of my mouth.

This is political suicide

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Response to SummerSnow (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:01 AM

5. Which just goes to show you how little Dump understands about how our gov works.

He has no clue on policy, process or procedure. Just wants to "win" but doesn't have a clue on the mechanics needed to make that happen.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:08 AM

6. What exactly are the "mechanics" needed to make it happen?

Seems the option is there if they are ruthless and desperate enough to take it.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:15 AM

9. I was just addressing his understanding of government in general.

Not necessarily this one issue in particular.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:32 AM

11. Got it.

Totally agree with you. But I do wonder if the Rethugs are seriously considering the nuke option .

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:41 AM

13. They would have to have a vote to change the rule. nt

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:49 AM

14. Yeah, I know that but looking for a few more specifics.

51 votes to change the rule? Would the parliamentarian be involved? Any issues with the rule about increasing the deficit?

Thanks

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:00 AM

16. They just need a majority to change the rule.

The issue is that if there are 2 of their own who would object (and in the past, there were a few who did not want to give up their ability to filibuster), then the rule change would not pass.

Note that they only have an effective "50 - 49" majority since Mccain is pretty much no longer voting. If they lose another person, then Pence could break a 49 - 49 tie, but the loss of a 2nd person would kill it.

The "deficit" thing is regarding the "reconciliation" process for budget-related legislation, which has its own rule ("Byrd Rule" ), but that rule is based on a law (Budget Control act of 1974, later amended a few times) and I do not think that would suddenly change with non-budget related rules change.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:04 AM

18. That sounds like it might difficult to pull off given the current circumstances.

Thanks!

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:10 AM

7. If the Senate control changes

Along with the House does he realize they also could do many things with his rule changes proposals, making it much harder on him soon? Works both ways .

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:30 AM

10. Good idea

 

Would be the best thing that ever happened to the Democrats after we take back Congress.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 12:08 PM

22. Agreed. Remove them all by the vote of a simple majority.

Start with Neil Gorsuch.

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:41 AM

12. One Party Rule moves closer to dictatorship

His minions are constantly spouting the infallibility of der fuhrer

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:51 AM

15. Sheesh, with this guy, you need to be more careful about using the term "nuclear option"

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:12 AM

19. Trump in his own words saying the responsibility and blame falls on the Prez.

Trump in his own words saying the responsibility and blame falls on the Prez.

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:23 AM

20. America's Word of Honor - fleeting

One element I feel is missing in these discussions on Capital Hill and within the online communities is the reputation of our country. To me, the DACA argument is secondary to the argument of our country's honor and keeping our word. It's a matter of trust.

The country made a promise that it no longer feels compelled to honor. We are seeing this situation come up time and again under this Administration. This is dangerous not only domestically but globally. We see more international leaders questioning whether they can take America at it's word. Whether it's worth getting into negotiations or agreements with the US when we may change our mind down the road.

To break our word to these young men and women will have unintended consequences for years to come.

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Response to Le Gaucher (Original post)

Sun Jan 21, 2018, 01:43 PM

23. Might As Well Do It. It Is Going to Happen Sooner or Later

Republicans have a majority and they have more than willing to change the rules in the past. They should own the shutdown.

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