Trial not likely for Jared Lee Loughner in 2012

[Survivoreesta]

PHOENIX - The mentally ill man charged in the Tucson shooting rampage that killed six people and wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 12 others isn't expected to go to trial in 2012 as he continues to be forcibly medicated to make him psychologically fit to stand trial.

The case was put on hold indefinitely when psychologists diagnosed suspect Jared Lee Loughner with schizophrenia and a federal judge ruled the 23-year-old wasn't fit to stand trial in the shooting that occurred a year ago Sunday.

Loughner is being treated at a Missouri prison facility, where he has been forcibly medicated for more than five months with psychotropic drugs. Even though psychologists say his condition is improving, his lawyers have vigorously fought the government's efforts to medicate him.

Mike Black, a former federal defender who is now in private practice as a criminal defense attorney in Phoenix, believes it would take Loughner's lawyer a long time to prepare for a trial, if he is ever declared mentally fit.

Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_central_southern_az/tucson/trial-not-likely-for-jared-lee-loughner-in-2012#ixzz1ijS2Zgxt

[PuffedMica]

1. Loughner will plead insanity, and proceed to get away with murder.

Not a mention of his being influenced by the right wing hate media will be made at the trial.

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. Loughner is clearly mentally ill.

Paranoid schizophrenia pretty much fits any criteria for "insanity"; sure, what he did was terrible, and the nature of his delusions may make him a threat to himself and others, but I'm not sure justice is best served by sentencing him to life in prison or execution rather than indefinitely commiting him to a maximum-security mental facility.

[blaze]

9. TY Spider

I can only imagine that mental illness is the reason for many atrocities that we read about.

[chrisa]

11. He's completely out of his mind. There was never any evidence that he was a political terrorist.

This is definitely someone that deserves to be in a mental institution.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Mentally ill people are perfect targets for stochastic terrorism

not that our lovely media or prosecutors will connect THAT DOT... they might have to prosecute somebody and it is not Loughner, under conspiracy charges. In this country that be a first.

But Mr. Loughner is not well... and insanity is real in this case.

Of couse, this means he should spend the rest of his natural life in a hospital for the criminally insane... that is another story,

[treestar]

28. One legally mentally ill is not one who "gets away with murder"

but is found not to have murdered due to not having the required mental state.

The question would be did he take any steps to indicate he knew it was wrong - anything he did to avoid getting caught, for example.

[onehandle]

2. Where did the gun and assault clips come from?

Follow the money.

[hack89]

3. He bought them at a Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson.

The Washington Post reported that Loughner bought a 9 mm Glock handgun on Nov. 30 at a Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting.html#ixzz1ijqauO00

[hack89]

4. BTW - you do know that "assault clip" is a made up and meaningless term. nt

[onehandle]

5. Follow the dead people.

I'm sure Christina Green's family really gives a fuck.

[hack89]

6. So lying is ok as long as it is for a good cause? What a shock. nt

[onehandle]

8. When I'm killing people, I want as many bullets as I can get.

Kpow! Kpow! Kpow!

Dead. Dead. Dead.

[hack89]

13. If you don't want a serious conservation just say so. nt

[Blandocyte]

10. No good reason to have such mags

in civilian hands. Limit every civilian to 10-round mags. You'd just have to change the mag while you're shootin' them holes in paper. It doesn't take *that" long, and while you are reloading, if you're shooting folks, it gives sane people a chance to tackle you.

[hack89]

12. For many handguns the standard magazine is greater then 10 rounds.

sounds like a round-about-way to ban popular hand guns. The Brady Bunch wouldn't be that duplicitous, would they?

Why 10? Why such an arbitrary number? Explain to me why that 11th round is so deadly?

[boppers]

19. Ten is the lowcap mag available on Glock 19's.

Maybe that's the reasoning? (Loughner used a Glock 19). It normally has 15 rounds, he used a 30 round mag+1, so he got off 31 shots, and had another 30 round clip, and two 15 round clips... 91 shots total.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/robert-farago/giffords-shooter-jared-loughner-used-a-glock-with-extended-clip/

Personally, I'd get rid of all these insane variants of legal patchwork for weapons and just apply the shotgun standard across the board. 3 shots before reloading, regardless of firearm, regardless of caliber, regardless of form factor, regardless of firing speed.... no more spray and pray. If you feel you *must* be able to fire more rounds, in rapid succession, get federally licensed, and be subject to mental health screening and extensive background checks.

"Explain to me why that 11th round is so deadly?"

It's not about the 11th round. It's about a pause before firing it.

[hack89]

23. All those pauses didn't save any lives at Virginia Tech

Here is something to ponder - as all these guns have proliferated, gun violence has plunged to historic lows. You have never been safer.

The issue in Loughner's case is mental health. If we had a properly funded mental health system in America, do you think this shooting could have been prevented? Lets fix the real problems.

[Paladin]

27. But Meanwhile, Let's Make Sure The Mentally Ill Have Plenty Of Firearms.

You're not fooling anybody but yourself, here.

And a special shout-out on this occasion to one of your fellow DU Gun Enthusiasts, the one who posted a gripe about Gabby Gifford's voting record not being sufficiently pro-gun---said criticism being made within 24 hours of the Congresswoman's shooting. Stay classy, gun militants.....

[hack89]

29. No - lets fully fund mental health. Lets do something in the realm of possible vice fantasy.

you are the guys that are using a very rare event to advocate for the stripping of Constitutional rights from other Americans. You must have loved the Patriot Act - after all it was to make us all "safer".

[Paladin]

30. Take It Back To Guns/RKBA, Where It'll Be Appreciated. (n/t)

[hack89]

32. No - I don't think I will.

not until gun grabbers stop using tragedy to advance their agenda.

[PavePusher]

34. No-one is advocating what you assert.

The only person fooled here is... you.

And you can cite your claim, yes?

[Paladin]

35. OK, Prove Me Wrong.

What proactive measures does the gun rights movement advocate which would prevent even a portion of such bloodbaths in the future? What have you got, besides pie-in-the-sky notions of taking care of the mentally ill (Where's the money coming from? How many years before aid measures get past the Republicans and are implemented?), or everybody arming themselves and embracing full-scale Law Of The Jungle behavior? Gun activists readily accept things like the Arizona massacre as a fair price for (somebody else) to pay, in return for having access to as many and as varied a selection of firearms as possible. Daily proof of this sick attitude is available on the DU Gun Control/RKBA group.....

[PavePusher]

36. Sorry but it's your duty to support your claims.

Which you are intently avoiding...

[hack89]

41. Our measures have led to historically low rates of gun violence

you have never been safer and next year you will be even safer - even you have to admit we are on the right track.

[Drahthaardogs]

25. The three round rule for shotguns only applies

in waterfowl hunting. Most pumps and semi-autos hold four in the magazine (assuming a 3-inch 12 guage firing 3-inch shells). You have to plug the gun to make sure the magazine will only hold two rounds.

Most guys I know take their plugs out for turkey hunting.


A gun smith should have known that.

[boppers]

39. *sigh*

1. Doves are not waterfowl. Hint: Waterfowl isn't relevant. Migrating birds is.
2. Yes, all weapons can be modified to be "non-standard" (long clips, rotating magazines, reciprocal firing systems, etc), I was advocating for a standard.
3. Yes, you can pull a plug. That is, of course, *totally* missing the point I was making.

[pipoman]

14. By civilian I am sure you are including law enforcement?

[Snake Alchemist]

17. What if you just had a gun for each hand? nt

[boppers]

20. And one on each foot?

A ten round clip, in each hand, would be 20 rounds. Loughner emptied 31 rounds in seconds, with one hand, before pausing to reload.

[Snake Alchemist]

31. Most full size 9mm average about 15-16 per magazine.

10 round magazines would be more common in .45 pistols and compact 9mm.

[boppers]

40. Yeah, I was guessing as to the origin of the suggested limit.

Not about the average magazine capacity.

[Drahthaardogs]

24. There is no good reason for many things

Let's put governors on all cars so they cannot go over 75 mph.

Let's re-instate prohibition.

Let's outlaw cigarettes and snuff.



As a dog trainer, this argument reminds me of the people who always sneer when I break out the electronic collar and say "You are going to SHOCK my dog?". To which I reply "It is a training device, and a very good one in the right hands. It the wrong hands, it is a torture device, but then again so is a leash, a heeling stick, and even a leather collar. If a person is an idiot, they will find a way to everything bad even it is mostly good. It is why they are idiots".

[PavePusher]

33. Police first.

If that works out, we'll look into it.

[pipoman]

15. Do you realize

how incredibly unconscionable it is to use people you don't know and to use their tragedy for some sort of justification of your own very personal agenda? I'm sure you really don't care.

[onehandle]

16. I have a personal agenda?

Pray tell what that is?

[boppers]

21. Reducing senseless deaths enabled by a pro-violence culture?

Such deaths facilitated by people who treat weapons as toys to play with, or have fun with, rather than objects of violence to be treated with fear and reverence?

Am I close?

People who have "fun" shooting at targets should be treated the same way as people who have "fun" disemboweling creatures.

I am proficient with quite a few firearms, having grown up with a gunsmith father, *and* I grew up on a farm, so yeah, I can disembowel just about most mammals and avian creatures, and clean and rebuild a wide variety of firearms, as well.

...but anybody who actually enjoys doing either, well, yeah, that's a pretty big signal of something *possibly* being very wrong in their head.

Consider this: A Gun nut vs. a Shovel nut. Both are tools. Both are common (the tool, not the nut).

Do you know shovel nuts who worry about their shovel's finish?
Do you know shovel nuts who obsess about who made their shovels?
Do you know shovel nuts who collect shovels? Do they have more than 10 shovels?
Do you know shovel nuts who argue for a right to attach items to their shovels, in order to "enhance" their shovel?
Do you know shovel nuts who can't wait to go somewhere, and practice shoveling all day?
Do you know shovel nuts who fear the loss, or tracking, of their shovels?

Yeah.

[onehandle]

22. No way. I clearly want to ban guns, collect the existing ones, melt them down...

...and use the metals to build the worlds largest drum circle bandstand for peace.

Living in the deep South, I've never even seen a gun much less fired one.

Now excuse me. I have to go polish my shovel collection.

[boppers]

38. LOL! Well played.

Hey, have you seen that new shovel handle mod with the tactical carbon fiber thumb grip?

[onehandle]

42. Thanks for the technically accurate 'tactical carbon fiber thumb grip.'

The 'shovel grabbers' out there just call it an 'assault grip.'

They're just showing their ignorance.

[aikoaiko]

26. Loughner: another tragic lesson on the importance of treating the mentally ill.

Most schizophrenics are harmless to others, but there is a small percentage of them and others who suffer from mental disorders who need intervention badly to keep them from harming others or themselves.

[tawadi]

37. +1