Jerry Sandusky and major Penn State donor 'abused two boys aboard a private plane', claims new witnz

[KurtNYC]

Source: Daily Mail UK

A man has come forward alleging he saw Jerry Sandusky and a prominent Penn State University donor sexually abusing two boys together aboard a private plane, it was claimed on Monday.

The FBI is reportedly taking the accusations 'seriously,' and has opened an investigation into a pedophile sex ring that could spread beyond the former Penn State football coach.
...
According to Radar Online, federal authorities are looking into the possibility that Sandusky shared his young victims with other pedophiles including a 'very rich, very powerful man connected with the university.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187748/Penn-State-sex-abuse-scandal-Witness-says-saw-Sandusky-donor-abuse-boys.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

---

Holy crap! With a major donor on a plane in front of witnesses -- this isn't a guy who was afraid of getting caught. This points to a much bigger problem and scale for this horror. How can others at Penn State say they were unaware when Sandusky was this blatant?

My guess is that the witness was the pilot but that is just a guess.

[Justice wanted]

1. ......

(My words would be censored. I know a person has been banned for having simliar views and expressed them here. So I will use the smiley to try and express my anger.)

[ejbr]

2. The witness is just as guilty for

not saying anything until now. WTF?!

[KurtNYC]

6. maybe there are dead witnesses (intimidation)

This un-named donor is still at large.

It is a good question: Why did this witness wait?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. for the same reason women often hesitate to report rape.

Fear of the perpetrators who can come back to hurt you, as well as (or maybe even more so), fear of the people who will mock and disbelieve you, because "those are good men you're accusing!!!"

[CoffeeCat]

128. Thank you for speaking the truth...

... And for understanding the problems surrounding sexual abuse, which make it nearly impossible for survivors (and in this situation an eyewitness) to come forward.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

143. it needed to be said

!

[MeetJohnDoe]

21. No, the perpetrator is

the one who is guilty; wrong to try to spread the blame.

Remember that DA who disappeared so conveniently?
We don't know the whole story, not at all.

[ejbr]

30. Then why does a witness need to tell anyone anything? n/t

[exboyfil]

34. No legal duty to report

Moral duty definitely.

[Hydra]

35. Because they'd like to put a stop to it

Maybe this witness came forward before and was suppressed? Maybe they were waiting for a time when it would count and they wouldn't end up in a body bag?

They could always have stayed at home and not said anything at all. Safest option.

[DavidL]

166. I'm still thinking this may tie into D A Ray Gricar's

disappearance.

(For those who don't know, about that case, Google Ray Gricar, PA DA)

[lunatica]

33. So far we don't know if he/she ever said anything before.

One reason why Sandusky was so blatant is that whenever someone came forward he was still given a pass.

[Posteritatis]

48. Yeah, this is definitely a concern as well. (nt)

[Kablooie]

161. Perhaps, but perhaps not if the the guy was really powerful.

If he is powerful enough, if you report him he may still get off scott free but destroy your career and your family's future as payback.

Can't blame someone from being reticent to report him in a situation like this.

[AngryAmish]

3. MOnths ago Joe Madden said that there was a donor pedo ring

First Joe Madden said that PSU was harboring a pedophile (this was about 18 months ago). He was mocked and accused of being a PSU hater.

Then, when Sandusky got arrested he said there was a pedophile ring involving boosters and donors. Everyone said he was making too much out of this...

Joe Madden was a terrible wrestling announcer but he has been right on this story so far.

[MeetJohnDoe]

24. Some say that organized

pedophiles are scarier than the Mafia.

[Hydra]

37. At least in the same category

Someone with no morals, probably good financial and political backing, "friends" you don't ever want to cross...and the knowledge that if they ever get exposed to daylight, they're beyond toast.

Not a good combination when it comes to "What line won't you cross?"

[nanabugg]

29. Money buys the 1% anything they want....even a nation. nt

[MicaelS]

38. I'm starting to believe the Pedo Ring might really exist..

How utterly disgusting.

[drm604]

39. I think that was Mark Madden.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."

[AngryAmish]

41. You are right, I am wrong.

[Doctor_J]

122. Madden said after Ted Kennedy dies,

"I'm pissed that he died before I had a chance to assassinate him"

First -class shit bag

[drm604]

125. I don't know anything about him.

I was just pointing out a mistaken attribution.

[2pooped2pop]

151. Can we get a list of donors over the years?

especially interested in the political connected ones.

[leveymg]

4. And, so you think the Mobsters and Vegas oddsmakers didn't know this was going on?

Those guys can smell a money-making opportunity 3,000 miles away.

[KurtNYC]

7. legit sports book just takes a percentage of the pool

they get the same amount no matter who wins or by how much so I don't follow your point about making money.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

22. How about fixing a game via blackmail?

[bigworld]

5. This bubbling is slowly turning into a full boil.

The biggest individual donors (who have given over $250,000) are inducted into what Penn State calls the Mount Nittany Society. Of those who have given a million or more, they're inducted into what they call the Laurel Circle. $5 million or more gets you to the Elm Circle.

I would suspect some reporters might start digging into the Elm Circle rosters.

[riverbendviewgal]

15. They might fine some "upstanding" politicians, eh?

Maybe they should start from the top of Pennsylvania.

[Eddie Haskell]

99. I believe the claim was that he was a Second Mile donor.

At least, that's what I've read. Pay attention to what the witness said, not what's been reported. The man's supposed to have had ties to Penn State, but he was also a Second Mile donor. Yes, he was probably a Penn State booster, but he gave money to the charity. You cannot make the claim that Penn State knew of this activity and accepted money in exchange for supplying sex.

[KansDem]

8. Oodles of money will buy you a lot...

...until you get caught!

Perhaps we should adopt a new campaign slogan:

"Tax the rich so they won't have large amounts of cash to do stupid shit with!"

[freshwest]

129. +1

[Evasporque]

9. this will kill Penn State football....

If boy sex was used to build the football program and entice donors then the NCAA needs to KILL PSU football immediately.

[cstanleytech]

18. The penalties in place are enough punishement from the NCAA and

the university will be lucky if they can recover from that within the next 10 to 20 years and thats not counting the charges from law enforcement for those involved in it nor the potential civil lawsuits against the university and those who were running the university when it occurred.

[Evasporque]

45. if the football program benefited directly from Sandusky's boy diddling/rape

then the program is toast. If he was "selling" boy ass as a perk for being a big time donor...that school will never field another football team.

[AngryOldDem]

51. That's the question now. How deep are the boosters involved in this?

If any of this is true...then I agree...shut down the football program, and let the school get by as best it can as a result.

As I said elsewhere here, when I read that story this morning, it made me sick. Just when you think it can't get any sicker...it does.

[cstanleytech]

116. Its pretty much toast already and they havent even started on the civil lawsuits so any benefit that

those in charge during that time period will largely be moot.

[MeetJohnDoe]

124. The problem isn't with football,

it's with adults using children for sex. Killing a football program accomplishes nothing.

[CANDO]

131. Salem Witch Trials Redux

Here we go, kill the fly with nuclear warhead! How about just calmly investigate and prosecute the guilty? Killing football does nothing but make you and like minded folks feel better.

[riderinthestorm]

132. News flash! This is about justice for the victims and isn't about you or I really.

Its about a punishment that fits the crime. The football program at Penn State enabled, nay facilitated, child rape for many, many years.

Child rape.

For years.

Its about violating DOE standards AND the Cleary Act, both of which are legal offenses. The institutional culture of Penn State is so poisoned and blinded by their football hysteria they were willing to let 50+ lives be ruined (more likely there are many, many more but the men are too ashamed to come forward). They allowed a pedo ring to operate unimpeded for a decade or more.

[CANDO]

150. Are you serious?

The football program facilitated pedophilia? Lets dial that back to Jerry Sandusky used the football program to get at young boys. All else is accusation. To most people, it appears other high ranking people may have suspected or known what he was doing and kept quiet about it. Those individuals are going to jail, are going to trial, or are dead. Foot ball is a sport. It doesn't cause pedophilia. Try as you like. You cannot justify attacking an innocent bystander. I'm angry that children are harmed. I'm angry at the perps and the ones who it appears were hiding the horror. Funny thing is, even Joe Paterno has not been accused or convicted of anything beyond public opinion. Louis Freeh's report was just that, a report. Take out your pious rage on the guilty.

[riderinthestorm]

153. Totally serious. Just like the Vatican and the pedo priests.

Catholicism isn't the problem but the culture that enabled it certain is. Attacking that culture is definitely fair game.

Are there good priests who are getting tarred? Definitely. Does that mean the culture isn't corrupted all the way to the very top? I think its absolutely fair to be outraged at the entire structure which enabled and facilitated it. In fact, I think if you AREN'T outraged at the Vatican and the priesthood in general then something's really wrong.

Penn State worships football at the expense of those boys for sure but fans are so blinded, they're outraged at anyone even examining how this state of affairs came to be, or even if its healthy. Like the Vatican only wants us to look at their pedo priests, Penn State desperately want us to only look at Sandusky, nothing else. Football has permeated the culture at Penn State to such a degree, and has corrupted it all the way to the top.

Sorry, but at this stage of the game, with a possible donor pedo ring and the Arrow foundation's close ties to the Bush family and THEIR past pedo ring history - I don't think anything's off limits in being questioned.

[CANDO]

158. So you want the RCC shut down also?

I don't hear you saying that and why not? I'm a casual fan of Penn State. There are rabid fans of football factory universities all over the nation. Yet somehow it's the culture at PSU which allowed a pedophile to flourish? Bullshit! As few as maybe tow or three people may have known absolutely what was happening and all the pious, self righteous types indict perhaps several hundred thousand fans who did nothing but enjoyed being fans. Again I say bullshit.

[riderinthestorm]

160. Oh, I'd LOVE to see the Roman Catholic church shuttered

Its got a long history of institutional evil and corruption.

The nuns can finally do their good social work under their own banner without dogmatic decrepit priests interfering. Any good priests left can join the nuns.

But hell yes, get rid of the Roman Catholic church definitely.

Penn State's allowed its "football fever" to corrupt the entire place. The institutional culture of the facility has shown it has absolutely no moral compass - the pedophilia was covered up at the highest levels, and perhaps even allowed to flourish with a pedo ring. That's evil on a grotesque scale. I'll guarantee you way more than 2 or 3 people knew what was going on. Far more than that.

[CANDO]

164. The difference

Then between you and I is that you're willing to lash out at innocent bystanders. Pretty much a destroy the village to save it mentality. I can't go there. It wasn't the village at fault.

[riderinthestorm]

165. Several thousands of rioting fans at the firing of Joe Paterno tells me something a bit different nt

[barbtries]

11. i have to say

although i find this shocking it does not surprise me. it sickens me, but it does not surprise me.

[modestybl]

12. The reporter that broke the story last year was on XM Sirius...

... saying that the Penn State scandal was WAY worse than just shiedling a pedophile... Sandusky was providing wealthy donors with boys. Why else would so many people, up to the president of the university protect an ASSISTANT coach, no matter how popular...

[Berlum]

83. Likely all linked to the Nebraska-Boys Town pedophile ring that had

reported ties to Republican BigWigs and Presidents...

Shameful.

[BlueToTheBone]

118. Indeed. Larry King, GHW Bush and the Bohemian Grove.

[Odin2005]

13. All the members of this ring should be put against a wall and shot!

[madokie]

31. correct me if I'm wrong

there has been no recorded cases of a pedophile being rehabilitated. If that is true then yes line them up and shoot the whole lot of them.
Children do not and I repeat do not deserve being treated in this manner.

[cosmicone]

69. There is a neurosurgical procedure

called bilateral amygdalotomy where they remove a small region from the medial temporal lobes called "amygdaloid bodies" which are responsible for violence and libido.

Once done, violent people and sexual predators (rapists and pedos) become gentle as pussycats.

[Dreamer Tatum]

78. A bullet to the temple is faster and as effective. nt

[hedgehog]

81. and more honest.

[madokie]

88. Learn something new every day

I must admit I've never heard of this. Is it like a lobotomy by any chance?

[bitchkitty]

106. Sorry, but you are wrong.

I know from working for DHS that the rate of recidivism is very low for sex offenders. Not defending them, but there it is.

[madokie]

113. I don't believe a word of it

I've been reading for years what I posted and one little bit from you won't change that. Proof and I'll buy it otherwise forget it.

[RobinA]

134. Buy or Don't Buy

doesn't change facts.

[riderinthestorm]

136. More than half of pedophiles re-offend within a year.

"Studies that tracked groups of sex offenders over their lifetimes found that 52 percent of diagnosed pedophiles who molested boys committed another sex crime while nearly 40 percent of rapists who targeted adult women offended again, according to the Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abuse."


http://www.vnews.com/sexcrimes/recidivism.htm



Where are your "facts" that prove differently? I'd really like to know. I am a very active volunteer at my local rape crisis center and women's shelter and re-offender rates are something we track very, very closely.

[bitchkitty]

137. That link doesn't support your statement.

It is talking about the extreme end of the scale.

To be fair, I should have said "offenders who receive treatment" have a very low rate of recidivism. But you are right - there are people whose desires have been so entrenched for so long, that they should never be trusted in society again.

[riderinthestorm]

138. I took the quote directly from the link. And if Sandusky doesn't fit the profile of a re-offender

then I have some bridges to sell....

[bitchkitty]

141. Also from that link:

"Recidivism rates for sex offenders drop for those who receive treatment to help them control their impulses and steer clear of dangerous situations, recent studies have shown.

In Vermont, for instance, correctional officials tracked 195 adult male sex offenders over a six-year period. The sexual re-offense rate for those who completed treatment was 5.4 percent, versus a 30 percent rate for those who refused treatment or did not complete it."

However, you are correct about Sandusky. The article does state that men who molest boys are more likely to reoffend.

[riderinthestorm]

142. Those stats don't usually include the pedophiles and stranger rapists,their recidivism rates are 52%

and 40% if I can recall.

Since the thread is about Sandusky however, I'm trying to keep the focus on him and not get too off topic. I'm almost certain he's completely lost his ability to control himself and would be a serious danger to society if he were ever freed, no matter how much treatment he received.

[madokie]

146. One person saying they have all the facts when I've read so many times for so long

otherwise does not fact make either. I don't believe a word of whatever that person said or you are implying.

[Odin2005]

123. That doesn't mean much, a homeless guy caught urinating is a "sex offender"...

...nowadays. I mean REAL sex offenders, not the homeless guy charged with "public indecency" or the 18yo guy charged with statutory rape for having sex with his GF.

[RobinA]

133. How Dare You

bring facts into a perfectly good witch hunt/reveng-o-rama

[AngryOldDem]

14. I felt sick when I read this.

Despite Sandusky being in jail, this scandal is not over -- not by a long shot.

[SoapBox]

16. And yet, up to just a couple weeks ago...

various people/groups were STILL trying to defend PSU.

ALL of these people need to STFU, take the medicine and get the school "clean"...and then go back to business.

I cannot believe, over and over and over, how many students, alums, etc. keep trying to defend the school
and their sports...again you idiots, STFU.

...the "enablers" were/are every place and America, you've got one serious moral problem.

[RobinA]

135. I Will Continue

to defend the school, of which I am neither an alum, a booster, or a football fan. I just hate mob justice. The more I'm told to STFU the more desire I have to speak out.

[frylock]

155. feel free to continue to defend an institution that covered up these actions..

fuckin knock yourself out even.

[dsteve01]

17. Some people

just love football too much to criticize pedophiles.

[cstanleytech]

19. *shrug* I have never seen the appeal in football, baseball, soccer, hockey, golf, tennis or any

other sport in general.

[Botany]

20. Penn State should never play football again

How many people knew of this sex ring that were be provided young boys
by Gerry Sandusky? The current Gov. of PA was told of illegal actions by
Sandusky years ago and yet as the State's Attorney he chose to do nothing
along w/ various Penn State Officials who were aware the problem but let
Sandusky take boys w/ him on bowl trips.

[unc70]

36. Follow it to DC, maybe Rome

The longstanding claims involving pedophila in DC usually dismissed as another conspiracy theory except when glimpses emerge like in the late 1980's.

Also like with the far right in Italy.

[LiberalEsto]

93. Sandusky charity successor Arrow has possible link to Bush family

I decided to look up the old White House call boy scandal and found this.


"Of note: Just last week, Second Mile announced it was shutting down an internal investigation into who, at the organization, knew about Sandusky’s criminal acts before his arrest, and exactly when they knew.

It’s not clear who at Second Mile made the recent decision to transfer the charity’s remaining assets, $2.6 million, to Houston-based Arrow Child and Family Ministries. It is clear, however, that Arrow Ministries has significant connections to the Bush family.

On Arrow’s board of directors sits Maria Bush, the wife of Neil Bush, son Of George HW Bush and Barbara Bush. Another board member, Susie Peake, “…served in various capacities for George HW Bush for over ten years.

Twenty-three years ago, a child prostitution scandal, known widely as the The Franklin Cover-up (see also this link too), threatened to explode in the media and take down the Bush White House. Despite reports in the NY Times and the Washington Times, and despite brief television news coverage from Connie Chung and Tom Brokaw, the investigation dissolved and disappeared.”

Link:
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/wider-pedophile-ring-at-penn-state-points-to-explosive-connections/

[cr8tvlde]

144. I have the book written by Nebraska State Senator John DeCamp ... stunning in its information

and even more stunning in how quickly the story/information disappeared. Not one word in the book was ever contested nor was De Camp sued for libel or defamation, as I recall. It just disappeared.

[riderinthestorm]

145. Louis Freeh, Bush crime family friend, appointed to "investigate", declines to follow the pedo ring

rumours at Penn State.

Nothing to see there as far as he's concerned. Nope. Not at all.

This angle was brought up farther downthread fyi.

[frylock]

156. i've read it as well..

very depressing.

[KurtNYC]

55. Sandusky had his own "charity" for at risk boys and it was funded by Bank of America,

Hershey, US Steel, Pepsi, Fritos and WalMart.

Sandusky found all of his known victims through this charity. Outrageous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Mile#Revenue_and_major_donors

[Dreamer Tatum]

23. Obviously we need to shut down private planes. nt

[LanternWaste]

40. Or at least learn not to conflate

"Obviously we need to shut down private planes.."

Or at least learn not to conflate wholly separate issues for the sake of mere self-validation...

[RobinA]

43. I Think That

was the poster's point!

[Nostradammit]

42. Did you honestly just try to bring the gun control debate into this conversation?!

Maybe you need a vacation.

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. No, I'm lampooning the stupid kneejerk demands that Penn State never play football again

just because a couple of psychos abused kids and other assholes allowed them to get away with it.

Nixon abused the office of POTUS, yet we still have one. Columbine is still teaching students. Airlines still
fly when planes crash. And so forth: bad things happen by the hand of bad people sometimes, but life goes
on.

[Nostradammit]

49. Your minimization of the situation is alarming

"just because a couple of psychos abused kids and other assholes allowed them to get away with it. "

You do understand that its been discovered that the people in the highest positions of power in the football program tried to cover up the rape of children, don't you?

Those "other assholes" have yet to be brought to justice and it is perfectly understandable that people are screaming for capital punishment of the whole enterprise.

Maybe you've never had children and don't understand the gravity of the situation, but your cavalier attitude about it does you no credit.

[Dreamer Tatum]

50. bullshit

If I'm minimizing, you're blowing it way out of proportion if you think the program should be dismantled. Bad people were in charge, so change the people in charge and move on

[Nostradammit]

56. No, it's not that simple.

If the administration at Columbine had covered up the massacre there do you think the school should have been allowed to continue teaching children?

A program becomes so corrupt that they cover-up the rape of children and you don't think it should be dismantled?

Wow, you have a very high threshold for evil.

[Dreamer Tatum]

59. I think those responsible should be dealt with

And the program can move forward.

The program isn't evil. The people who ran it were.

[Nostradammit]

61. If the gangrene in your leg is in danger of killing you, guess what?

They are going to cut off your leg.

You may miss your leg for the rest of your life, but you will have a life.

If the penalty for what happened at Penn State is not the most extreme penalty imaginable we, as a society, will be condoning the rape of children.

They, as an institution, were aware of what was going on and allowed it to continue. That is so shockingly repugnant that it demands an end to the institution.

If you can't see that you might want to find a repair shop for your moral compass.

Some things in life are more important than football, you may be surprised to learn.

[Dreamer Tatum]

66. False metaphor

You can't cut your leg off and hire a new one.

You CAN get rid of the management and hire a new one, however, which is what should be done.

[Nostradammit]

72. Are you just not getting that this goes beyond the football program?

That what happened there is so heinous that the name Penn State will forever be connected with child rape?

I cannot believe that any decent person can be so glib about it as you are.

"Everybody move along, there's nothing to see here. The authorities are dealing with it. Move along, people, keep moving..."

[Dreamer Tatum]

74. If the name of Penn State will always be connected with child rape

then of what value is getting rid of the football program?

Glib? What am I supposed to do, genuflect toward State College? Terrible things happened and they're being dealt with.

Life goes on. Know how I know? It's going on AS WE SPEAK.

[tblue37]

100. Frankly, I have never found a good reason why an academic institution

should be expected to field a semiprofessional sports team or to operate the minor leagues that train athletes for the professional sports franchises.

Nor do I see any reason why so many students with inadequate academic preparation but superior sports skills should be given full-ride scholarships while those who are merely unusually gifted academically must struggle to fund a college education and often go deeply into debt to do so.

[hedgehog]

85. The problem is that all too often, it is the managerial structure

which encourages the behavior and provides the cover, simultaneously.

In the Catholic Church, the "Father knows best and can do no wrong" mentality allowed predators to pick their victims at leisure. The "Church can do no wrong" mentality meant that the bishops covered up for them.

[KurtNYC]

62. The "program" let Sandusky use their showers for rapes

and did no more than slam a locker loudly for 15 years.

Seems like Sandusky was running some kind of child rape ring for donors. That IS evil.

[Dreamer Tatum]

64. So remove the management of the program

and move on with life.

Sort of like what's been done already.

[public]

105. Where would you like to move on to?

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."~I bet you know who...

Unfortunately, one cannot move on until one accepts something bad happened and accepts responsibility. Until one does, no one is going to move on.

Add to this that PSU students knew about Jerry Sandusky and he was gossiped about on student boards. Coaches knew, they said so at Jerry's trial that they were all aware Jerry was showering with kids. "It wasn't a big deal" to them.

The former management knew and they are being or have been dealt with.

However, there is still MORE pouring out of that town about more pedophiles, through PSU, raping boys from TSM. So, until all of the dirty laundry is aired, I don't think things will move forward. Pushing people to do so, will only create more anger on PSU.

[frylock]

157. this poster is just an asshole by nature..

check some of it's other posts.

[Nostradammit]

159. You want to read something amusing?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021143565

Check out its exchange with The Magistrate.

It's like watching Jerry Lewis get in the ring with Muhammad Ali.

Excepting, of course, that Jerry Lewis actually did some good in the world outside the ring.

[frylock]

162. that thread was fresh in my mind when i replied to you..

artful display by His Honour!

[Nostradammit]

163. Public humiliation of the truly deserving is a wonder to behold.

"My god, man, slap yourself and think!"

[riderinthestorm]

52. How many people have to be exposed as culpable,

or even participatory, before you will admit that Penn State has a monstrous problem?

Jayzus fucking christ, today the story is about pimping out the boys in the program to university donors. You don't seem to understand that as more people are implicated there's justifiably going to be a whole lot more pressure on the entire system. As there should be and you should be SCREAMING for it as well.

Otherwise you look as clueless and idiotic as the fans rioting after Joe Paterno was fired. There should be nothing but shock, horror, revulsion and yes, perhaps even a loss of accreditation in order to shock the system into never, EVER, getting itself into this situation again.

"life goes on"??!! Not for those boys it hasn't. I guarantee you their pain, shame and perhaps even physical scars will follow them their entire lives.

[Dreamer Tatum]

53. sorry to burst your bubble

But life does go on.

Tell me why PSU should lose football forever if the cancers in high places have been removed and dealt with?

That makes no sense.

[Nostradammit]

58. How do you know the cancers have been removed?

Pray do tell.

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. so there are more child molesters in the football program?

You should forward your evidence to the authorities.

[Nostradammit]

63. Did you read the OP?

If you do you will learn that someone has just come forward to witness that a major Penn State donor was also abusing children.

So now it looks like the fire has jumped beyond the football program into the very funding of the place itself.

At what point will you be ok with severe penalties for the institution? What further atrocity would be required to arouse your anger?

[Dreamer Tatum]

65. Severe penalties have already been meted.

So I don't know what you're talking about there.

Killing football forever at PSU is a needless exercise.

[Nostradammit]

68. Which penalties are you referring to?

I've not heard of anything that comes anywhere near severe.

[Dreamer Tatum]

71. I'm pretty cool, but I can't watch the news or read papers for you.

Go educate yourself. A man whose last name is Sandusky is in prison forever, for openers.

[Nostradammit]

73. And all those who knew about it and allowed it to continue

What's happened to them?

[Dreamer Tatum]

75. According to you, they should be drawn, quartered, and deep fried.

Whereas I think they should be sent to prison forever and sued into oblivion.

It's REALLY simple: remove the cancers. Accept the NCAA penalty. Move on.

[Nostradammit]

76. Are you for or against the death penalty?

Sincere question.

[Dreamer Tatum]

77. The answer to that is irrelevant to this discussion.

So it's anything but a sincere question. You're trying to paint me as a hypocritical, uncaring, football-crazy
lunatic, when in fact I don't see why some kid playing Pop Warner ball somewhere in PA shouldn't have the
ability to play at PSU in 10 years. That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Nostradammit]

79. Is PSU their only possible choice?

[Dreamer Tatum]

80. No. It should be among their choices, however.

Sorry to dare to disagree. Child molestation is horrible and unforgivable, but the institution of Penn State football hasn't raped anyone. People in charge did.

[Nostradammit]

82. "Horrible and unforgivable"

Exactly.

And my question was totally sincere. Every argument that can be made for the death penalty for individuals applies to the institution of Penn State football.

What happened there is unforgivable, and we, as a society must make the penalty the most severe penalty possible.

You seem to think ending the football program is too severe, which means it's probably the right thing to do.

[Dreamer Tatum]

84. I see your side. Just disagree. nt

[Nostradammit]

86. Peace.

[KurtNYC]

67. that is what the current FBI investigation is looking into

I get the sense form your posts that you really don't care if at risk boys from Second Mile charity were forced to have sex with old men. We now know that: Sandusky was indicted in 2011 on 52 counts of child molestation dating from 1994 to 2009, though the abuse may have dated as far back as the 1970s.

The FBI investigator Freeh stated that the most senior leaders at Penn State showed a "total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims" for 14 years and "empowered" Jerry Sandusky to continue his abuse.

Honestly the attitude toward these kids from some seems to be "Fuck 'em if they can't play football." Literally.

[Dreamer Tatum]

70. No, you're just stupidly equating my position with a lack of outrage

which is dumbassed binary thinking. That's OK; I forgive you.

A football didn't rape boys. Trophies didn't jump out of the case and rape boys. The stadium didn't rape
boys. To my knowledge, student athletes didn't rape boys.

(are you catching on?)

Instead, evil men in positions of authority raped boys, and other evil men looked the other way and covered
it up. By your own admission, the FBI is looking into those and I am confident that punishment will be meted.

So when you remove Paterno, Sandusky, and all others culpable, what reason would you have to eliminate the
program?

None, other than some sort of righteous indignation.

[Eddie Haskell]

109. Freeh is a Bush family coverup expert.

IMO if this thing goes beyond Penn State, Freeh was there to put a lid on it. What cases did Freeh work on before being named Director of the FBI? Why did Bush appoint him as a judge?

[riderinthestorm]

89. Its clearly beyond the football program and now into the administrative office

Fundraising is the province of the administration. "Major" donors like the one mentioned in the OP are feted by the higher ups, (and usually NOT by the assistant football coaches).

This indicates that there's a wider degree of culpability here and certainly grounds for ALL of Penn State to come under the most severe penalties/scrutiny, not just from the NCAA, but from major university monitoring agencies as well.

This would be like the Vatican travel office being made to suffer for moving the priests around, but nobody else within the Roman Catholic Church getting any scrutiny at all. After all, only those who moved the pedophile priests around are the "cancers" right? Even though knowledge of the abuse was known at the highest levels and nobody did anything... nope, only the ones who worked in the travel office are in big trouble.

The 'cancer" at Penn State has metastasized and targeted radiation won't cure what ails it. Your lack of concern about the victims is noted.

[Dreamer Tatum]

90. Stow your sanctimony

Even your diatribe, which may or not be factual, doesn't preclude the existence of the program.

Sorry - I don't seek to punish people who had nothing to do with what happened. Sorry also that you can't draw the distinction. Thank heavens you weren't in a position of authority after WWII - otherwise there'd be no Germany.

[riderinthestorm]

94. Struck a nerve. Good. About time somebody did.

You seem to believe that slapping the football program for a few years and putting Sandusky (and a couple other "cancers&quot in prison is enough for destroying 50+ people lives (I'm sure there's more if some of those guys can screw up their nerve to come forward).

No way. Not even nearly enough. Your strawman analogy with Germany only shows how desperate your argument is. It took the Nuremburg trials and a decade of allied occupation to "clear" up Naziism. Many German civilians had nothing to do with the Nazis either but they all suffered under the occupation equally and are stronger for it today.

[Dreamer Tatum]

96. You're anthropomorphizing the football program

and charging it with child molestation.

That is stupid. People did what happened, and people are being held accountable. Yes, lives were ruined, and I am sure compensation will be offered to help offset the pain, but that STILL doesn't preclude the existence of a football program run
by responsible people. To eliminate the program as some kneejerk response to the horror of what happened is to suppose that
it would happen again just because it's Penn State. That is ludicrous.

I am sure that a disregard for football and competitive sports is what's behind a lot of the howling for the scalp of
an entire program. If you're one of that group, I pity your rage.

[riderinthestorm]

97. My husband's a pro athlete. I live in this bubble and understand it very, very well. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

98. I have a red pony. nt

[riderinthestorm]

101. I have one red pony, one paint pony and 5 competition horses of my own.

My husband rides, trains and competes about 15 more clients' horses at any given time plus clinics, lessons and competitions. He's even competed against Ann Rmoney's horse. I have two other trainers who work for me at my barn and in total we manage anywhere from 40 - 60 horses. There are more than a few DUers who ride who know my name and who my husband is since I've been here more than a decade that info is pretty common knowledge about me. I'll pm you my website and you can see it yourself if you like.

Your point?

[Dreamer Tatum]

107. You added a nonsequitur - I followed suit. nt

[riderinthestorm]

108. I was responding to your final sentence

"I am sure that a disregard for football and competitive sports is what's behind a lot of the howling for the scalp of
an entire program. If you're one of that group, I pity your rage. "



And assuring you that I'm not only a fan of competitive sports, I live it daily. So sorry, I thought it was pretty clear.

[LanternWaste]

130. the football program was an enabling mechanism for the abuse to continue.

I imagine it may have some to do with the belief that the football program was an enabling mechanism for the abuse to continue. If investigation reveals that to be the case, then the mechanism (in this case, the football program, in other cases, a church) would need to be eliminated, and only then, rebuilt.

I don't really see that as a knee-jerk reaction...

[public]

110. Because the whole school knew....

....and did nothing.

Students knew, Coaches knew, staff knew.....and yet, it continued for 14 years. Sandusky wasn't a secret. Apparently, it was known there were other pedophiles up in a ring too...as I heard from one PSU alum say they "told us it was a lot worse and it had nothing to do with Paterno or the football program". Obviously, it is an institutional problem...and since the FOOT BALL Booster was the other person raping a boy openly on the plane, it still is a Football problem.

PSU should return their focus on educating people instead of getting their boosters laid in the name of football.

[Dreamer Tatum]

112. You'll need to cite proof that "everyone knew."

Proof != "I know a lot of people who say so."

[riderinthestorm]

25. Disgusting and despicable. Something's terribly systemically wrong at Penn State

when shit like this is allowed to go on at the highest levels.

This goes way, way beyond the football program and into fundraising - the very core of the administration of the university.

It sickens me that people are saying - well it was "only" 4 bad-apple people in the football program, or it was "only" those 4 people AND Sandusky's foundation, or it was "only" those 4, the campus police, the foundation officers, and Tom Corbett... Now its all of the above AND major donors (and how many other witnesses who have kept silent all these years like the one in this story?)

When do you say enough's enough and shut the place down? Something is terribly wrong in the administration of that place on many, many levels. Its permeated the culture and the campus to a frightening degree - so much so that nobody came forward for a decade or more.

[RobinA]

44. Are You Under

the impression that this stuff only happens at Penn State? It happens everywhere, it has nothing whatever to do with Penn State or its culture. Penn State just happens to be the location of some of the activity of one guy who got caught.

It strikes me that those who blame the "culture of Penn State" for this are succumbing to the same Penn State exceptionalism they hate in Penn Staters. Guess what? It's happening down your block. Somebody knows about it, and they aren't reporting it.

[riderinthestorm]

46. Oh, I agree 100% In fact, I said the very thing on another thread about this a couple hours ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=193622

"If Penn State loses it accreditation it MAY stop this happening anywhere else. I say MAY since I can't believe this is the only university with epic moral failures hiding behind the entry gates."

[zzaapp]

26. Special place in Hell for 2, please.

[MADem]

27. Good grief. Why not just name that school "Repentance University" and get it over with?

Strip away all the sports save intramurals, try to work on strong academics, ethics and character building as a school focus, and maybe they can survive.

Who would open their wallets to send their child there? I think ACC (any community college) is a far superior choice, at least in terms of the "Yuck" factor.

"Say, where is little Bobby going next year?" "Pedo State--we're so proud!"

I mean, really--I know there are people here who have a connection with the place who will pout at me that this isn't the prevailing perception....but this IS the prevailing perception.

I don't know how long it will take for them to get past this shit. Twenty years? Thirty? A hundred?

[JohnnyLib2]

28. It's not the football--it's the moral/legal/organizational breakdown.

Variations on the rotten theme keep coming up--churches, Boy Scouts, Hollywood. The Penn State disaster is shining a powerful light on a painful reality.

JL2, non fan

[KamaAina]

32. a 'very rich, very powerful man connected with the university.'

That would describe (among others) Rick Santorum.

[notadmblnd]

54. About damn time. don't forget to investigate that now closed down charity he had

too.Cause that's where he was getting his boys for his prostitution ring. I'd put money on it.

[KurtNYC]

91. That is already confirmed -- Sandusky used the charity to find all of his known victims.

[notadmblnd]

95. And the donors were the customers

[Ezlivin]

57. Waterboard Sandusky

Since it's no longer considered torture and our government loves to brag at how it can coax information from victims suspects, use it to make Sandusky name all of his co-conspirators.

[appleannie1]

87. Wonder if the investigation will circle back to the disappearance of Ray Gricar

[Nostradammit]

92. $1,000,000 question.

[drm604]

102. I wonder if Corbett will be implicated.

He seemingly dragged his feet on this like everyone else.

[riderinthestorm]

104. Very fair question. More than a few DUers have made the connection to Corbett

and the scandal. At this point, I would completely believe he's also complicit.

[Eddie Haskell]

117. Why do you think Corbett slowed the investigation?

Had he taken down Penn State football, he couldn't have run for Governor. He passed the buck like everyone else.

[riderinthestorm]

120. Agreed. He facilitated the perpetuation of the crimes.

He knew what was happening and chose to do nothing.

I'm beginning to believe that there is a larger link with the HW Bush pedo ring, Rethugs, and this one. Louis Freeh is an old Bush friend and also chose NOT to follow the evidence to the pedo ring. If even we on DU were speculating on it (there were stories that Sandusky had been transporting the boys to out of state games that fueled most of that talk) then Freeh must have discovered this and also chose not to go there.

Breathtakingly awful.

[KansDem]

139. "...there is a larger link with the HW Bush pedo ring"

Are you referring to this?



http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2003/03/04/15796131.php

[riderinthestorm]

140. Yup. nt

[LiberalEsto]

149. That's what I was referring to in my post #93 above

I started looking for it thru Google, and came up with something else:

information on a blog stating that Sandusky's Second Mile charity's assets were recently transferred to Houston-based Arrow Child and Family Ministries, which has close ties to the Bush family. The wife of Dubya's brother Neil sits on the board of Arrow, along with a former aide to Bush Sr. This really creeps me out.

[KansDem]

154. Thanks for the info!

It seems the Bush Family is pretty sleazy.

It seems to have its tentacles in a lot of criminal and morally reprehensible action.

The "call boy" ring as you've pointed out, and the whole 9/11 affair.

I mean, how do you explain:
1) Business partners and family friends of the Bushes, the Saudi Royal Family, financing the attack;
2) The "mastermind," OBL, is a member of the family;
3) The August 8th PDB;
4) Bush going on vacation shortly after the PDB;
5) Bush sitting on his butt and doing nothing when told of the attack;
6) Bush first saying he saw the WTC attack on TV, then saying he was told about it;
7) Invading Iraq, that had nothing to do with 9/11;
8) Bush's "inability" to find OBL;
...and so on.

I believe the official 9/11 report is the real "conspiracy theory."

[proud patriot]

103. I hope this huge ring of elite sickos get busted

would be nice to see their money all have to go to victims too!

[unc70]

111. It's a lot bigger than just Penn State

Last edited Tue Aug 14, 2012, 07:25 PM - Edit history (2)

This story is from a couple of weeks back:

Edit to remove link to site with other bad stuff. Will find a better site and replace link. Sorry.


ETA If these accusations are true, this is a huge story.

[MadrasT]

114. Holy. Shit.

I was afraid this might be way bigger.

[nc4bo]

115. ohmygod.

[nc4bo]

119. No words can accurately express the deep feelings of rage

I felt when this story first broke. Now every time a new discovery is made from the predators and enablers of Penn State comes to light, those feelings are renewed. Horrifying.

There is no punishment severe enough for these cretins, except death. They are chronic, habitual offenders of the innocent, terrorists and predators of the worst kind. They are monsters.

Now I've read that the Freeh investigation chose not to dig deeper, exposing all the trails, following the money to every person/group/campaign benefiting from this, directly and indirectly. All of it should be exposed and made public.

[Doctor_J]

121. Someone postulated that Second Mile was a pederast ring

many of the big donors got access to boys for their donations. This backs up that proposition

[Frank Cannon]

147. I suspected that from Day One

And I was ridiculed on this forum for even suggesting it.

But I could see no other way that so many powerful people would spend so many years covering the ass of an assistant fucking coach.

When Freeh got hired to do the internal investigation, it only confirmed it for me. They were going to pin this primarily on a single "bad apple" and a dead guy who protected him. And that's exactly what they did. Nothing more to see here, folks. Move along.

[RobinA]

148. Well, Except

Freeh didn't pin it on one bad apple. Paterno is barely mentioned in his report. The mob pinned it on Paterno because he was the most visible figure.

And I'm not defending Freeh, I think the report was a rush job and woefully incomplete, I'm defending what the actual facts mentioned in the report say.

[Canuckistanian]

126. My guess is the NCAA got wind of this story

And that's the real reason for the ultra-heavy fines and championship bans.

This scandal ain't over yet.

[BootinUp]

127. I'm going to be ill now, nt

[aquart]

152. Who hasn't been waiting for this shoe to drop?

[zonkers]

167. This is dark as can be. The Penn State brand is just destroyed. Period.

School should change its name.

[Sunlei]

168. sadly pedophiles attempt or plan to abuse every child in their 'abuse range' that crosses their path

There could be hundreds of boys abused in Sandusky's' desired age range, thousands of attempts to groom boys for abuse. Yes, even adult 'friends' or abused boys who grew up and joined Sandusky to abuse other boys.

we will probably never know how many but ever single child that was alone with him for his entire life, or in company with another 'friend-pedophile' could have been abused.