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Wed Dec 6, 2017, 05:54 PM

House OKs GOP Bill Expanding Gun Owners' Rights

Source: U.S. News & World Report

Dec. 6, 2017, at 5:37 p.m.
By MATTHEW DALY and RICHARD LARDNER, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) Republicans rammed a bill through the House on Wednesday that would make it easier for gun owners to legally carry concealed weapons across state lines, the first significant action on guns in Congress since mass shootings in Nevada and Texas killed more than 80 people.

The House approved the bill, 231-198, largely along party lines. Six Democrats voted yes, while 14 Republicans voted no.

The measure would allow gun owners with a state-issued concealed-carry permit to carry a handgun in any state that allows concealed weapons. It now goes to the Senate.

Republicans said the reciprocity measure, a top priority of the National Rifle Association, would allow gun owners to travel freely between states without worrying about conflicting state laws or civil suits.

Read more: https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-12-06/house-weighs-republican-bill-easing-gun-restrictions



Votes: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h663?utm_campaign=govtrack_feed&utm_source=govtrack/feed&utm_medium=rss

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Statistically Notable Votes

Vote Party Representative District
No R Buck, Ken CO 4th
No R Curbelo, Carlos FL 26th
No R Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana FL 27th
Aye D Bishop, Sanford GA 2nd
No R Roskam, Peter IL 6th
No R Massie, Thomas KY 4th
No R Amash, Justin MI 3rd
No R Smith, Chris NJ 4th
No R Lance, Leonard NJ 7th
No R King, Pete NY 2nd
No R Donovan, Daniel NY 11th
Aye D Schrader, Kurt OR 5th
No R Costello, Ryan PA 6th
No R Meehan, Patrick PA 7th
No R Fitzpatrick, Brian PA 8th
No R Gohmert, Louie TX 1st
Aye D Gonzalez, Vicente TX 15th
Aye D Kind, Ron WI 3rd

Statistically notable votes are the votes that are most surprising, or least predictable, given how other members of each voter’s party voted and other factors.

28 replies, 1291 views

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply House OKs GOP Bill Expanding Gun Owners' Rights (Original post)
sl8 Wednesday OP
Angry Dragon Wednesday #1
Skittles Wednesday #2
Angry Dragon Wednesday #7
WorkDoctor Wednesday #3
marble falls Wednesday #9
Brother Buzz Wednesday #17
still_one Wednesday #4
Angry Dragon Wednesday #5
still_one Wednesday #6
alp227 Wednesday #8
sl8 Wednesday #11
sl8 Wednesday #14
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #10
jmowreader Wednesday #18
BumRushDaShow Thursday #20
demopilot Wednesday #12
angrychair Wednesday #13
oneshooter Wednesday #16
jmowreader Thursday #21
demopilot Thursday #25
marylandblue Thursday #27
jmowreader Thursday #28
Fla Dem Thursday #23
J_William_Ryan Wednesday #15
turbinetree Wednesday #19
ManiacJoe Thursday #22
turbinetree Thursday #24
Kaleva Thursday #26

Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 05:59 PM

1. so much for state rights.........I thought republicans love state rights

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:02 PM

2. gun humper cowards' rights trump state rights

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Response to Skittles (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:20 PM

7. I think you should kick some ass in DC

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:06 PM

3. acknowledging that "law abiding" gun toters

stay home and never take road trips. Trying to recall the murder that crossed 3 states, ending in Texas, I think. It involved the death of a judge or some elected official.

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Response to WorkDoctor (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:35 PM

9. There's plenty of cases of people crossing state line with firearms to specificaly "get" someone.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 08:50 PM

17. Like the curious case of Bryan Moles

A man accused of having guns and 90 rounds of ammunition in his car was arrested inside Trump International Hotel early Wednesday after D.C. police and the Secret Service received a tip about him.

Bryan Moles, 43, of Edinboro, Pennsylvania, was arrested after police found he had an assault rifle, a handgun and ammunition in his car in a parking garage at the hotel in downtown D.C., authorities said.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-With-Guns-Arrested-at-Trump-International-Hotel-425475564.html

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:07 PM

4. Guns should only be allowed in the halls of Congress, and only for the spectators. How does that

sound?

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Response to still_one (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:17 PM

5. sounds very good

I remember when they talked about putting up a shield around congress

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:19 PM

6. I am not surprised at anything that occurs anymore

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:21 PM

8. Louie Gohmert voted no?

And here are some notable cities of the districts of the four "aye" Democrats.

- Bishop: Albany, GA
- Gonzalez: Corpus Christi, TX
- Kind: Eau Claire, WI (about an hour from Minneapolis)
- Schrader: Salem, OR

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Response to alp227 (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:41 PM

11. Note that six Democrats voted "aye"

I'm not sure why only four made it to the "notable" list.

I' m too lazy to go through the roll to find the other two.

Good catch on Gohmert. It looks like he was a co-sponsor on the original bill. Maybe he really didnt like the last minute "Fix NICS" addition? Beats me.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 07:18 PM

14. Gohmert has a video on his House site, explaining his vote.

https://gohmert.house.gov/#

Basically, he didn't like that it incorporporated the Fix NICS bill.

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:40 PM

10. The 3 PA Rs in your list are in (gerrymandered) swing districts

immediately surrounding Philly so their "no" makes sense.

But Louis Gohmert?

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 10:19 PM

18. He voted no because it didn't give the NRA enough

The bill contains the provisions of the Fix NICS Act. The NRA really hates this thing, so Gohmert voted against the reciprocity bill.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 05:31 AM

20. That's what I speculated as the only thing that makes sense. nt

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 06:45 PM

12. Why is this different from requiring states to honor driver licenses

or marriage licenses from the driver's home state? It makes sense to me.

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Response to demopilot (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 07:01 PM

13. Simple really

States have very similar laws with respect to marriage and driver licenses but can have very different requirements for a CC.
There are unrestricted, shall-issue, may-issue and no-issue states.

In affect, it would allow a person from a unrestricted state to CC in a May- or No-issue state that likely has requirements that would otherwise make that person ineligible to CC in their respective state.

I doubt this can withstand a court challenge.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 07:53 PM

16. All 50 (57?)states and DC have a CCL system.

And I believe that PR, Guam, and the USVI also have one.

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Response to demopilot (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:03 AM

21. Very few people pull out a wedding ring and start shooting

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:22 PM

25. True, but that isn't really an answer.

If Full Faith and Credit is part of the Constitution why would it only apply to certain things? I'm just asking.
(I worked very hard for marriage equality up until Obergefell)

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Response to demopilot (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:48 PM

27. Full faith and credit means something different

Each state has to accept that ankther state is telling the truth. For example, if you have a medical license in one state, the other states have to agree that ylu do on fact have a license there. But they don't have to give you a medical license nust because the other state did, if the second state has diffetent licensure standards than the first.


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Response to demopilot (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:29 PM

28. Youd be surprised at the number of things that doesnt apply to

Most professional licenses have no reciprocity.

Guns present a hell of a problem in that what works in Idaho will not work in California. Should we saddle California with Idaho’s laws, or Idaho with California’s?

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Response to demopilot (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:30 AM

23. Not at all similar. Driver Licenses are required to operate a motor vehicle.

Vehicles are necessary for interstate commerce and the transportation of people from one point to another, which includes state to state. If each state required drivers to have licenses to operate a motor vehicle in their state in order to travel in their state, that would be an over burden on state officials to issue that many licenses and virtually impossible to enforce. Would need a check point at every state entry point to check on whether or not a driver had a license to operate in that state. Ridiculous.

Without the recognition of each states' marriage licenses, there would be utter chaos. Individuals could have multiple marriages in different states. Married couples moving from one state to another would have to apply for new marriage licenses. A spouse could move to another state and declare they are no longer married to the spouse in the other state, thereby avoiding any responsibility to that spouse.

Guns on the other hand are not a necessity of life, in fact cause the loss of many lives and the injuring of many others. They are a threat to society in general. States have a right to protect their citizens from all threats and dangers. If the citizens don't want either open carry or concealed carry in their states, that's their decision, not a CCL states' decision.

Also thought RWer's believed in state rights, but there they go trampling on state's rights.

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 07:53 PM

15. Rights cannot be expanded the notion is ignorant nonsense.

Rights are inalienable, they can be neither taken nor bestowed by any government, constitution, or man.

Although inalienable, our rights are not ‘unlimited,’ they are subject to restriction by government consistent with Constitutional jurisprudence.

Reciprocity has nothing to do with ‘rights’ – be it the states or individuals.

Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution states that “the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which…Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.”

In this case, acts (laws) that govern the carrying of concealed firearms.

Reciprocity with regard to concealed firearm licenses would apply only when the license-holder is traveling through a non-resident state or is visiting in a non-resident state.

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Response to sl8 (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 11:15 PM

19. So I have to ask, these individuals that go across state lines in a car, truck

with a device that is kinda dangerous to begin with, do they have to have a insurance coverage, to transport this hazardous object across state lines.

Does the car insurance carrier have a say in this matter-------------Since everyone when driving has to have insurance for liability purposes even across state lines, because if this fucking object gets stolen, do I, or many others that pay into car insurance and have our rates go up because these fuckers have a fucking gun in the car and it gets stolen while going across state lines.

Who is fucking liable if it is used against someone, after all it was transported across state lines in a fucking car or truck, my car insurance coverage cover these assholes from another state when they come into in my state?

Who covers the liability of the car insurance of this transportation, me, the driver in my state and my car insurance carrier----------FUCK that Shit.

I shouldn't be held responsible because of some asshole, who thinks that second amendment doesn't need to be regulated, can just go anywhere you want with a concealed weapon.

I hate guns.......................

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Response to turbinetree (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:26 AM

22. Your post suggests you don't understand how car insurance works.

It has nothing to do with guns.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:08 AM

24. Someone transporting a gun in a car who is liable

Does the insurance carrier that you buy for your car have a waiver in it about guns, that you are carrying across state lines. If you buy a new car you have to show proof of insurance end of story, the car will not go off the lot until you prove you have it, in most states you can't operate a vehicle unless you have insurance.

If some whack job brings a gun across state lines and the mode of transportation of getting that gun across state lines is a car, and something happens, who is responsible for that transportation, the owner of the gun, the car insurance carrier which the gun sits in that car, since you have to be responsible to have car insurance for the car.

In least, most states liability insurance is requirement to operate a vehicle in the state just in case something happens, and if something happens, and you have no insurance, well, your house, your wages are now on the line to pay for that incident, if you are liable.

Let me use this example, you go into a mall, and you live in a state that has open carry or concealed BS, and on this property you go into your local auto parts store, and some jerk has a gun on them. Mind you the store has no sign saying no guns allowed or if they are allowed and they are leasing the building from some property owner.
Something happens in that store, and the "guy" or woman pulls out the gun and shoots and hits someone, something happens.
Who is liable, the mall property owner or the auto parts store leasing the building on the property of the mall property for allowing that gun into their store, what does there liability insurance say to who is responsible, where is the sign that says guns are allowed or not allowed, the car insurance carrier which the person was riding in to get to that store.

Lets say there are other stores on the property, and there is a bank, go and ask them if you can bring a gun into the bank, or other stores on the property, or does the property land owner of the mall which the bank sits are they responsible, after all they are leasing the building from the property owner of the land which it sits, after all, you now have a right to bring a gun transported by car from another state into a bank because this bank is affiliated with your bank in the state you live, or if someone just walks right on in with a gun strapped on there hip, now that it's just fine and dandy to have on concealed or not concealed, by this new act of BS.

I went into auto store, and while I was there some asshole brought in his gun in the auto parts store, he was at the register, like I was, I looked over at the cashier and asked is this person paranoid, with him standing right there, why did he bring is gun into the store, to express his second amendment right, that is not a right, that is infringing on my right.


How do I know that he isn't going to rob the place, does this item on his hip make him more manly, is it that this person has a inferiority complex, just so they can go around and carry one.

See if he can go into bank with one, see what happens.

Remember the young man in Minneapolis, he even told the officer he had a permit for the gun, and he was shot, where is the sign saying no guns allowed or if they are allowed on the store front, does the property owner of the mall responsible for not having a sign the store on which I was in, who is liable for this jerk bringing the gun into that store, who is liable.

If you want to transport or own a gun, then my contention to this matter, is that you should have liability insurance just to operate and own that gun, just like a car or truck, you want that gun that bad, then be liable for having one, and if anyone does not have insurance for that gun, then you can't have one, then just like what was said in the previous conversational paragraphs, your liable for your own the situation.

What happened in Nevada, that hotel is going to be sued, they are going to pay into there lack of responsibility, they had no sign on the front door, saying no guns allowed, its that simple, it's just car insurance either you have it or you don't, and gun owner should be held responsible, either you have or you don't-----------------regulate that gun with insurance for its operation by the owner.

I hate Guns

I have seen my principle laying on the ground dead, and two other human beings wounded, when I was in grade school over 54 years ago.

I was told that my best friend was shot dead over ten dollars, 35 years ago


Liability insurance is the regulation of that weapon and remember your car can be used as a weapon


Have a nice day




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Response to turbinetree (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:39 PM

26. My Michigan permit allows me to conceal carry in 40 states

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