Millennial poll: Strong majority want a third political party

[DonViejo]

Source: NBC News

NOV 29 2017, 4:43 AM ET

by HANNAH HARTIG and STEPHANIE PERRY

A strong majority of millennials — 71 percent — say the Republican and Democratic parties do such a poor job of representing the American people that a third major party is needed, according to the results of a new NBC News/GenForward poll.



Sixty-three percent of millennials disapprove of the way President Donald Trump is handling his job as president. But millennials also hold a variety of political institutions in poor regard, and 65 percent think the country is on the wrong track overall.



Six in ten disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job, while 59 percent have an unfavorable view of the Republican Party and 42 percent have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party. On the whole, millennials overwhelmingly do not think either party cares about people like them.

These views may help explain why a large majority of young adults — across racial subgroups, genders and partisan affiliations — say a third major party is needed. The survey was conducted October 26 to November 10, among a nationally representative sample of 1,876 adults aged 18-34.





Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/millennial-poll-strong-majority-want-third-political-party-n824526

[Irish_Dem]

1. We need to pay attention to this. nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. You're damn right, loyalty always must be earned, and no one can be shamed into it. n/t

[Demsrule86]

69. A third party guarantees the continued election of Republicans. we have a two party system...

Two choices...any who think Trump was the best choice should join a different party...the GOP...all others need to vote Democratic to stop the GOP or they help the GOP...it is a simple fact. Those who undermined the Democratic Party have blood on their hands ...CHIP, dreamers, the poor,net neutrality...the list is lengthy...allow me to use this thread to call out the worst of the worst in terms of third parties...Fuck the Greens and Jill Stein in particular. You gifted us Trump. Also consider the multi -partied UK, Theresa May is disliked but continues to win as multiple parties split the vote.

[Tom Rinaldo]

86. I am not the one advocating for a third party. The Whigs were once part of a two party system

Milennials, not Boomers like myself, are the largest generation now. It's increasingly becoming clear that stern lectures on the importance of becoming Democrats is not producing that effect. If this were business instead of politics, those who ran a business that had consistent fading appeal with younger consumers, would begin to examine how the product needed to evolve with the times, not just the sales pitch.

[Demsrule86]

87. That was a different time... I doubt it could happen now.

you can't force them to be Democrats...if they are stupid enough to enable the GOP that is on them...and they will pay the price. I don't however, buy these polls completely for a number of reasons...and I have hope that as time passes the Millennials will understand they need to get involved and make the party what they believe it should be.

[agincourt]

105. four parties would be the sanest

right now the GOP goes more batshit, the democratic party's turnout is not high enough. Too bad Gary Johnson didn't do better.

[Demsrule86]

120. No, look at the UK with multiple parties...they have elected conservatives for more than a decade...

May is the worst.

[MargfromTassie]

139. You need a preferential or proportional voting system to get other Parties playing

Preferential and proportional voting systems give influence to third parties. Australia and New Zealand both have these. They also have a British system of Government whereby the executive is part of the legislative. The Prime Minister can be replaced overnight by the other elected members of his Government. It avoids a lot of problems by not empowering a single individual like the US system does.

[radical noodle]

143. Except that isn't the way our Constitution

was set up. Are you proposing the Constitution be changed?

[agincourt]

147. Ding ding ding ding ding

Our constitution needs to be reset, not a relic of white slave owners abusing their power. Dumping electoral college is a start.

[agincourt]

148. True in some ways but

the UK right wing is quite a distance from being as nasty as ours are.

[leftynyc]

34. When I see proof the

millennials get off their butts to vote and not whine like babies when their candidate doesn't line up 100%, I'll take what they say seriously. Those who want to trash me for my honesty about the millennials should save their breath.

[Irish_Dem]

37. Young people are the future of our party and I think we need to listen to them seriously.

I am not trashing you, just giving my opinion.

[leftynyc]

41. I'll take them seriously

when they PROVE they're not lazy, entitled non-voters whose thinking is so freaking lazy they actually claim both parties are the same.

[Irish_Dem]

42. Young people have huge college debt, lack of good jobs. They have issues that are important to them

I agree, they need to become politically active, but they did join the Bernie movement last election.

I think young people are going to be very progressive.

Edited to add: If we don't listen to the young folks, the Dem party may split in two.
I hate to see that happen.

[leftynyc]

45. I do listen to them

That's why I call them lazy and entitled. They couldn't see beyond their disappointment that Bernie wasn't the nominee to see the damage that donnie was going to bring - the damage we tried to warm them about but they were too busy pouting. They actually claimed (like that twit sarandon) that both are the same. I can't deal with that kind of stupid.

[kwalter66]

49. +1000

[Neoma]

100. And this post is how I see why Im not welcome in to the Democratic Party.

[leftynyc]

104. Yawwwwwnnnnn

And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Why do you have to be courted? Look at the two parties that are viable and pick one or you're going to get what trump is doing now. Are you happy with how it's turning out?

[muriel_volestrangler]

107. You're doing a great job of driving young people away from the Democrats

All you've done is insult them. The DUer never said anything about needing to be courted.

No bigotry/insensitivity
Members are expected to respect diversity and demonstrate an appropriate level of sensitivity when discussing related topics. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, or other forms of bigoted intolerance are not permitted.
Why we have this rule: Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes people of every race, sex, religious belief (or lack thereof), sexual orientation, gender identity, body type, disability, age, etc. We want to promote a welcoming atmosphere for all of our members, and do not want to provide a platform for bigotry.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

You have said they "whine like babies"; that they are "lazy and entitled", and that they "pout" and are "stupid". You've aimed this at all millennials. Although you probably didn't realise it, you're clearly breaking the DU Terms of Service.

[leftynyc]

112. Spare me the drama

I've got plenty of numbers to back me up on how the young voters turn out. Few for the presidential and even fewer for the midterms. That's who I'm aiming this at - not at the ones that take voting seriously and know it's something that needs to be done EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Not just in the midterms - school boards, state legislatures, county executives - the turnout among the young for these elections is abysmal. Feel free to alert me all you want. All it would tell me is that the truth hurts.

[muriel_volestrangler]

115. Your insults aren't 'numbers', and numbers don't back up insults.

The 'drama' was started by you. You were name-calling.

No, you aimed your insults at all young people. Now you've been called on it, you're backpedalling.

"The truth hurts" is a pathetic attempt at excusing yourself.

Seriously, please clean up your act before you talk to anyone young who isn't already committed to the Democrats. In your present dismissive state, you'll just convince them that Democrats aren't interested in doing anything for them.

[leftynyc]

116. Yawwwwwnnnnnn

I don't need to clean up a a thing. I've said my peace and this argument is boring me now.

[Neoma]

108. I'm already in the democratic party.

Why do YOU think I need to be courted?

[leftynyc]

113. I don't think ANYBODY

should NEED to be courted. I'm in my late 50s and have never voted for MY perfect candidate. But instead of howling into the wind, I do what I can to recruit candidates and then cast my vote for the one who will best represent me. This isn't rocket science. If this sewer of an administration doesn't tell you what sitting on your ass bitching and not voting will do, nothing will.

[Neoma]

114. If everyone in the democrat party is like you.

Then the Democratic Party doesn’t actually represent me. They’re full of unwelcoming bitter old people who doesn’t pay attention to the need or wants of my demographic.

Edit: your attitude was presented before Hillary lost. And it’s why she lost. People told Bernie voter’s that they didn’t need our vote.

[brooklynite]

80. How many joined the Bernie movement and how many actually voted?

[BeyondGeography]

2. Good

Take it as a sign that these voters, who are the future after all, can not be taken for granted by either party. The only healthy response here is to deliver better results for them than they've been getting.

[KPN]

26. Exactly!

And "results" includes "nominations". We need to break from the current mold if we hope to win them over.

[Hortensis]

48. They have to vote for better results. I'm very disgusted

by this idiocy.

Those people, and some here, would dump a good party they're too lazy and ignorant to know to support a new one full of new people they don't know.

If these people can't recognize principles and values now, right in front of them, because media and enemies tell them they don't exist, how would they in a shiny new party that'd was mudded and smeared as it was forming?

And who'd be forming this brave new party? The Koch types? Of course.

Intense, Kool-Aid gulping stupidity is hardly limited to Republicans.

[DetlefK]

3. I have been saying that for years: The US needs to move away from a Two-Party-system.

The hyperpartisanship in the US is a direct result of the Two-Party-system, because there's no middleground.

If the Republicans had the freedom to break up into: fiscal hawks, tax-cutters, social conservatives, military hawks, Evangelicals...
If the Democrats had the freedom to break up into: Blue Dog Democrats, Social-Democrats, environmentalists, liberals...

Then the political landscape of the US would look radically different.

[KPN]

27. That's what my three 30-something kids tell me all the time.

Meanwhile, I persist at arguing our Party's case to almost no avail. They point to our candidates and our record. Sometimes hard to disagree with them.

[Demsrule86]

70. It can't happen. We have a two party system...and look at May in the UK...they

hardly have a system that works.

[tinrobot]

135. Except our election laws favor a two-party system.

With a winner take all elections, the third party usually acts as the spoiler.

We need to change the way that we vote to make something like this happen. Runoff elections if someone doesn't clear 50% would be a start, but there even batter ways to count votes.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. As America cleans house

the Democratic Party will be in good shape. They will jettison some baggage, tidy up a bit, emerge with new leaders, and make their agenda more progressive.

[RKP5637]

77. I think that is key, making the agenda more progressive. Far too often IMO some dem candidates

keep moving rightward, afraid to speak up for democratic traditional values.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Pointless poll results without knowing *why* they want a "third party"

(I see the poll itseldf does specify "third major party" )

Is it to split the right wing vote between those primarily concerned with hatred, and those with wealth, thus helping the Democrats win elections?

Is it to split the Democrat vote, for ideological reasons?

Is it to form a centrist party, taking votes from both wings, to give the centre the balance of power in Congress, and make every presidential election unpredictable?

Without follow up questions like that, they may as well have asked "what's your favorite color - blue, red, or do you want the choice of a third color?"

[brer cat]

18. Exactly.

This poll is useless, but some have rushed in to use it to bash Democrats. It amazes me how some people's biases lead them to read into a poll what they want to see rather than what is actually there, or not as is the case with this poll.

[FakeNoose]

6. The Democratic Party needs to address this

I see this as a fail for the Democratic Party. The Democratic message hasn't been properly conveyed to the younger generation. We need to realize that "hate radio" has changed how we're seen by everyone in the USA. It didn't just happen last week or last year. It's been going on for the last 30+ years. (Since Ronald Reagan)

We need to evolve - adapt - stay relevant - or die.

[lancelyons]

20. This hate radio (fox news tv) is the root cause. This is what needs to change.

I am not sure I see how having 3 parties help.

1 Democratic party
2. Socialist Party
3. GOP


Democrats lose

If its more like this

1. Democrats
2. middle ground GOP with decency
3. extreme right gop

then this helps democrats.

One thing I do agree with, Hate Radio or Hate TV (Rush and Fox, etc) are the root cause of the divisions and hatred in US. No doubt about it.

[moda253]

35. Exactly

[socialist_n_TN]

122. I see a couple of problems with this way of thinking.....

First, since almost half of Millennials are anti-capitalist, a stat that won't change as more and more of the social democratic reforms are rolled back. Unless you think that ANYBODY is going to gain any sort of control over capitalism in its senility. So the future is moving in a socialist direction because Millennials are moving in a socialist direction. For the Dems to retain relevancy they have to move this way also or yes. they will lose.

And secondly, you are assuming that there is a "middle ground GOP with decency" and that's NOT been a factor since Reagan.

What's MUCH more likely, IMO, is a socialistic type of party that's more or less anti-capitalist, a party that supports capitalism and allows capitalism to have the final say over policy, and mixed with former Republicans and Democrats, and a right-wing, proto-fascist party.

[Demsrule86]

72. I see this as an expected result after the endless attacks on the Democratic Party from the right

and the left (Stein and Saradon minions). I see this as having to change because unless you want fascist GOP rule...the Democratic Party is the only reasonable choice for progressives...third paryt=GOP victory.

[lordsummerisle]

7. Third parties

never seem to gain any traction. With the current system all a strong third party does is split the vote of one party and thus hand the election to the opposition. Just ask Mainers about Paul LePage...
I wish there were a way to change this...

[TexasBushwhacker]

33. Exactly, although I wouldn't object if we had an instant run off system.

Not only do third parties siphon off votes from the GOP and the Dems, but they can create a situation where no one gets a majority of the votes. With an instant run off, you have an A and B choice. Vote A is for who you really support and vote B is for who you support should your A candidate not be in the top 2. The B votes are only counted if no candidate gets 50+% of the vote.

[NurseJackie]

8. We have a two-party system.

[Ace Rothstein]

10. Then we need to tell these people why they should vote for Democrats.

And it can't be because we're not as bad as the other guy.

[NurseJackie]

11. LOL!

[brer cat]

21. Here you go.

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

Come back after you read it and let us know where we were not hopeful or inspiring enough. I don't see "we are not as bad as the other guy" but maybe you will find it somewhere in there.

[sheshe2]

29. This.

If they can't read this and understand our platform, then they are lost forever. Please read it to them ... slowly if necessary, pause after every section to determine if they understand it."

Thanks so much for posting our Democratic platform, brer.

[Ace Rothstein]

43. I think the party platform is great.

I think the party did a terrible job of communicating that platform in 2016.

[kwalter66]

50. What

Are YOU doing to communicate it better?

[ehrnst]

98. When we did, we were accused of promoting "identity politics,"

Perhaps you remember hearing about that?

[BoneyardDem]

25. Yup...that type of thinking leads to "they're all the same..they're just as bad"

The reality is that the other guy is always so much worse than we are. Been watching the news in the last 11 months? That is reason enough to vote against the other guy until an election cycle comes around that presents itself with your ideal candidate. oh and good luck with finding the ideal candidate.

[NurseJackie]

30. Agreed! It's a very Sarandonesque type of thinking, and she's definitely...

... a vanity-voter who'd rather LOSE and "brag" that she had "principles" and "standards" rather than choosing the BEST of the two candidates who actually have a shot at winning. Third-party "purity" protest-votes are stupid and a waste of a vote. Any vote that doesn't benefit the Democrats is a vote that benefits the GOP.

I guess when you're rich and can afford the horrors that such foolish tactics result in, then it's an easy thing to do. Having Trump in the White House is exactly what Susan Sarandon wanted.

Check it out... Just LOOK at how giddy and animated she is! She can barely contain her excitement at the horrors that await us.



(PS: Susan Sarandon can go fuck herself!)

[BoneyardDem]

32. thanks for the PS....and yet SS seems to speak for a minor, vocal, disconted group.

can't help but feel there are many that like the idea of "teaching everyone a lesson", to prove a point that only a minority agree with. That kind of thinking smacks of blackmail or domestic terrorism.

[leftynyc]

36. I have zero patience for

those who claim both parties are the same. I don't deal with imbeciles.

[ehrnst]

97. There is this thing called a platform.

A quick google of the internets led me to this:

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[BeyondGeography]

13. Insightful

[NurseJackie]

15. Not really, but thanks anyway. Sadly... it needed to be said.

[ehrnst]

99. Just the truth. (nt)

[IronLionZion]

9. I'd like to see the republican party split up into factions

the religious nuts, pro-war folks, and low tax folks can all go their separate ways. We should tie them to Trump until they do.

but our Democratic party is designed to be disorganized and diverse. We have all types of Democrats. Liberal millennials should get involved in our party and campaigns and messaging. It could be a good way for many of them to get much needed career experience and influence the communication and vision of our party while supporting candidates they agree with. And they should run for office.

It's going to take a lot more to turn America into an effective multi-party system. Other countries have a parliamentary system with coalitions where the majority gets to elect their prime minister. And smaller parties tend to run candidates at the local level while trying to influence policy through coalitions at the national level.

[rainin]

12. DU this is a warning!

All the Bernie hate -- the party loyalty over elevation of ideas is alienating this demographic.

Pay attention. We need to WELCOME this democraphic.

[moda253]

39. we support 95+% of his message

How much more inviting do we have to be??????

[rainin]

46. I have been very happy at DU

by purposely avoiding Bernie threads. In those threads, there seems to be a few very vocal members who would take over the thread with hostility toward Bernie for the "I" after his name. Not because of his policies, but because of his party affiliation. A couple of times, I made a few feeble attempts to add my input, but I really didn't care for the tone.

My two sons (millennials) are both democrats. They supported Bernie, then voted for Hillary, as did I.

DU was not a welcoming place to my millennial sons nor to me at times, but I stayed because 95% of the members and the threads fit my needs. They did not stay with DU. They both have very negative views of it. I find this very unfortunate, but I bet my sons aren't the only two millenials who were turned off.

So to answer your question, I don't know what you need to do differently, because I don't know you. I'm just offering our personal experience for what it's worth.

[kwalter66]

51. maybe

You need to speak to your two sons about how to JOIN a group and not waltz in then demand the group conform to them. Which is exactly what most, not all, I said most, Bernie supporters who are still throwing a tantrum did. What a novel idea huh.

[rainin]

57. How condescending you are

to my very accomplished sons! I dismiss you completely! Perhaps there are more thoughtful people here who will benefit from my comments.

[Demsrule86]

73. I don't see why...anyone has to conform to you or Your son's opinion...we discuss here.

It is what we do. We have disagreements...some of the folks I like the most rarely agree with me... I don't need it. I like all points of view. While I would have supported Sen. Sanders in the General in 16 and will in 20 should he be the nominee... I am not a fan. Everyone has an opinion...and I fail to see why reading even a passionate post that you disagree with harms anyone or makes this site unattractive.

[rainin]

76. It is fine to have disagreements.

Note in your second comment to me, you are stating a clear opinion without attacking my children or Bernie supporters at large. While in your previous comment you insulted my children and Bernie Supporters: You need to speak to your two sons about how to JOIN a group and not waltz in then demand the group conform to them. Which is exactly what most, not all, I said most, Bernie supporters who are still throwing a tantrum did. What a novel idea huh.

"waltz, demand, conform, tantrum" I couldn't have written a better example of my point.

If the overwhelming majority of the commenters were insulting, berating, or using ad hominem attacks or other common arguments to attack, defend, disarm, etc. rather than discuss and disagree, I AM MERELY SUGGESTING, that it gets in the way of attracting those who might be valuable to have on the team: independent voters like millennials.

If we want to broaden our reach, perhaps stories like mine can be instructive. For those who want to attract millennial voters, rather than just insult them, my story could be of interest.

Do what you want, of course. I don't care how you like to use a site. I am participating in this exchange because I believe that we all have lots of choices where we can go for our content. I would like the democratic party to improve it's approach with millennials, because they are a huge voting demographic. And I have personal experience that might be useful to members here.

That is why we participate, right? To share our experiences? And perhaps, learn from the experience of others.

[moda253]

82. Maybe if Bernie stopped attacking the democratic party

Maybe if Bernie stopped attacking the democratic party which he doesn't belong to we would be a little more sympathetic towards him.

You go to a party sometime, criticize the art on the walls, complain about the furniture and tell the cook that their food is awful and see how many people are willing to welcome you back. See how word travels about you amongst the friends of the people that attended the party that witnessed your behavior. At some point Bernie needs to take ownership of his own behavior. Or he will just end up being the footnote in history that he is. He could be great. But he tears down instead of building. That will work with a group of people that want to bellyache about the state of things, but unfortunately it will not build a winning team.

Here's the clue. In order to build a team that can win on a national level you can't have one person dictating how everyone else should act. And that certainly isn't good governance either.

[rainin]

88. I didn't see it that way.

Leaders lead... which sometimes means putting forth new ideas. I didn't see him attacking the democratic party. I saw him standing for ideals and values that resonated with a huge demographic, including me. I thought he made a valuable contribution to the democratic party's platform in the end, too. After the primaries, I threw my full support to Hillary and I would vote for her again today.

I didn't see his candidacy like you described it. I just looked at RCP to remind myself how many people voted for Bernie and it says 12 million people voted for him (16 milliion voted for Hillary). So, hostility to Bernie voters seems short-sighted for the future of the democratic party.

I always thought the hostility that a few here at DU had toward Bernie was not conducive to finding where their policies overlapped. I'm sharing my experience because I know a small sample size of democrats who were turned off by the overt hostility shown them.

I think if we are serious about expanding the democratic party to include even more of those 12 million voters, it helps to consider whether we are using language that insults or attracts. That's why I shared my experience... for those who might think it is valuable.

[Owl]

145. Agreed. Well said.

[moda253]

81. Excuse me.

So to answer your question, I don't know what you need to do differently, because I don't know you. I'm just offering our personal experience for what it's worth.

I think you misread what I wrote. I didn't ask what I need to do differently. I asked what we need to do differently. But your response is quite illuminating.

[Kimchijeon]

44. Agreed, either adapt or die

Can't be alienating what people actually want. People are sick and tired of making do with one bad choice that is "slightly less shitty" than the other choice. Hoping for the best.

[moda253]

83. Wait Hillary was slightly less bad than Donald Trump

Really?

[harun]

85. Probably going to need to be a different website

But hope it isn't.

[PatrickforO]

14. I recently heard Katty Kay, who is the BBC America lead anchor,

speak at an event about world trends. She was brilliant.

One of the things she brought up was that the progressive wing of the party is convinced that if the party gets more progressive, then it will become stronger, win more elections. However, Katty expressed some reserve with this position per se. She nuanced it by pointing out that the average age of leading Dems in Congress is 74, while the average age of leading Republicans is something like 48.

That said, our aging leadership is an issue, but this last election saw lots of new young people elected. Millennials.

And Bernie attracted the most Millennials. Why? Because for them, Socialism is NOT a dirty word. They want health care. They want public investment in education to make it cheaper. They want a good transportation infrastructure. They want affordable housing.

I spoke with a prominent local Republican a few days ago, and he said he's troubled that what he calls 'the circle of life' seems to have broken down - we boomers generally made it through school fairly cheaply (yes it was still hard!), and were able to hit the ground running with little if any student debt. We found an apartment, then met someone. We moved in together and maybe got married. We started careers and were able to amass wealth - we'd buy a starter home, get equity, cash that out and get a bigger home in time for children, etc. And yes, I know it didn't look that way for everyone, but it did for me.

Now, Millennials can hardly afford a car let alone housing. When it comes to the ol' American Dream, they get shit instead.

That's a problem DIRECTLY CAUSED by the Koch brothers and other billionaire freaks ripping off the treasury through government defense or energy contracts and/or ripping us all off with tax cuts which make it impossible for government to continue offering services that address public goods. Everywhere we see this. No one can afford to repair the fucking roads. Our water treatment system is antiquated and getting worse. Up to 7 in 10 people who work in affluent areas cannot afford to even rent a place in those areas, let alone buy a home. The average student loan payment is $340/mo, with the average debt balance >$31K.

So, for every dollar the billionaire parasites rip off through giant tax cuts, it's a dollar less to support that 'circle of life' my Republican mayor friend talks of.

Yes, we need to be paying attention to the needs of workers, since millennials now outnumber boomers in the workplace. We need to be paying attention to the infrastructure.

I'm meeting this morning with a millennial kid in the business community and he wants insight into setting up some kind of generational networking group of millennials to push back against this shit.

[Kilgore]

16. The ones I know are going libertarian n/t

[leftynyc]

38. Then they're morons

There is no such thing as an honest liberatarian. Just look at rand paul - they're just conservatives who want to smoke pot.

[Demsrule86]

90. Then they are stupid. Libertarians are worse than Republicans.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Remarkably consistent data across racial lines. That too is noteworthy n/t

[BlueIdaho]

22. I wonder how Millennials would react to

The Democratic platform from 1968? For that matter, the Republican platform too... My point? Today’s Democratic Party is far more conservative than the Democratic and republican Party of the past. I suspect that if we talked specifics of good old Democratic values - the party would be far more popular with not only Millennials, but with a broad spectrum of hard working Americans.

[sheshe2]

31. How is this conservative?

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[BlueIdaho]

63. Have you read the 1968 Democratic Platform?

If not, you really should.

[sheshe2]

64. Answer my question.

Is the 2016 Democratic Platform conservative and if so how?

[BlueIdaho]

94. Answer my Question ? Bullshit.

This ain’t no court of law and you ain’t no prosecutor, so if you aren’t interested in a conversation after becoming informed on the proud past of Democrats - you are nothing but a waste of my time.

[LiberalFighter]

23. There won't be a third party if they sit on their ass.

And they won't do anything but sit on their ass.

[Gore1FL]

24. Proof that we need more math and Civics classes in public schools.

It's also proof that, while vastly different, the two parties stake out an awful lot of all-too-similar positions.

[still_one]

28. Another false equivalency push poll, where 31% in that poll didn't even bother to vote in the

presidential election.

31% didn’t vote in the presidential election
12$ voted for someone else
21% voted for Donald trump

Gee, every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states lost to the ESTABLISHMENT, INCUMBENT, republican, and those Democrats such as Feingold were quite progressive.

Gee, it was those ESTABLISHMENT Democrats who gave us The Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Supreme Court justices such as Justice Ginsberg, fought to get the foot in the door to start the ball rolling for healthcare for everyone, fought for the Lilly Ledbetter Act, EPA, Workers rights, etc. etc. etc.

While those Jill Stein, Ralph Nader, and third party advocates ONLY accomplishment was getting George W. Bush and Trump elected

I hope those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016, are the ones who feel the brunt of the pain that most Americans will be recipients of, because of their bullshit all or nothing ideology.

That is why we have trump

[brer cat]

47. +1

[Irish_Dem]

40. GOP may end, no longer be a party. Dems may split into two parties.

That is where things are headed.

[Demsrule86]

91. I fail to see how you arrive at this conclusion. The GOP has held the House through a gerrymander

for just under eight years. They have the Senate and the presidency...perhaps we should consider THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE. And stop with the long pointless discussion of third parties....and roll up sleeves and win 18 as Democrats which is the only party that can stop Trump and the GOP minions who literally are willing to kill Americans for money.

[ileus]

138. They're dying out fast. 8 more years and

there won't be more than 15% of the vote possible for the GOP.



We wait this out just a bit longer and the US will be a one party system.

[Fresh_Start]

52. Millennials proving once again that they don't understand the US political system

When they change the Constitution so that it isn't rigged to a two party system...they have have all the parties they want.

[awesomerwb1]

53. The Dem party needs new leaders yesterday.

-Start grooming and promoting the future leaders NOW. Ossof is just one example.

-Start thinking outside the box and take your f-ing gloves off already Dems

The gop will make sure it survives by ANY means necessary. Gerrymandering, voter suppression via rolls or by hacking the news and social media, etc.

The Dems will probably split into two parties that may not vote together. Problem.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

60. Heresy!

We must show blind unwavering deference to those who have installed us in the permanent minority in the House and Senate. If you think otherwise you're a geezerist and misogynist!

We don't need new leaders, we need eternal life for existing leaders!

Pelosi-Hoyer 2028!

[Demsrule86]

89. Those who abandoned Pres. Obama doomed us to a gerrymandered minority...new leaders

would have not affect...people have to vote even in non-presidential years.... and stop attacking Democrats.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

109. I will gladly stop criticizing them when they stop habitually losing.

Last edited Fri Dec 1, 2017, 05:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Doing absolutely nothing other than hoping for "Muellermas" and hoping that American's will notice something about Trump and Republicans in the next year that they haven't noticed in the previous thirty seems like another brilliant midterm strategy.

[Demsrule86]

118. Gerrymander....think about it...

And the stuff coming from the so called reformers would doom us to the minority for decades...not grounded in real world politics.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

124. That is just an excuse to absolve the current leadership of responsibility.

We are reduced to just waiting for the Republicans to die of self-inflicted wounds because we can't overcome gerrymandering?

We can't get rid of Dana Rohrabacher in a district that voted for Hillary Clinton.

[Demsrule86]

74. Ah yes the Democratic savior...we must find one. A Roosevelt sort of leader where he saves the day,

and they don't have to to the heavy lifting required to win elections. May I suggest you consider saving yourself by voting for perhaps imperfect Democrats in any general election and contributing both financially and with your time to the only party that can stop Republicans...the Democratic Party. There is not nor ever will be a 'savior'. There is only you at the end of the day.

[samnsara]

54. y'know..they need to know how to act in...and understand.. a two party system before they go

making up one of their own.


when I was in High school a million years ago, a class mate thought his drawings of monsters were SO good he submitted them to MAD Magazine...who wrote back saying that altho his ideas were good, he needed to master figure drawing first, so he has an advanced knowledge of fine art before he goes into cartooning.

Same can be said here.

[PJMcK]

55. We don't need another party. We need 3 things:

First, we need to get rid of corporate and dark money in politics. Elections should be funded by each jurisdiction, i.e., Federal, State and Local. It's the only way to keep the corrupting influence of $$$ MONEY $$$ out of our politics. (I know, good luck with that. My comments are meant to be objective.)

Second, we need new blood on both sides. Our Democratic candidates need to project the future of our nation. Far too many of the people who have served honorably for years represent the past.

Lastly, as a country, we need greater participation at the ballot boxes. While I cannot quote a source offhand, my impression is that Millennials have not turned out in large numbers to vote. If they did, their voices would carry much weight.

Fundamentally, politics in the U.S. is a spectrum shading from Left to Right. Fix what we have and then there will be clearer choices.

[Demsrule86]

75. You can't get elected without money...one of the reasons we lost the past eight years

(before 16) is because we drove off big Democratic donors. There was policies in place (Obama) that restricted lobbyist. They could not give money. Consider we lost during those years...and the rules of who is a lobbyist were alway muddy...lifelong Dems were driven off. I am thankful that this is no longer the case. We desperately need them back. And we need to contribute to the party or there won't be enough money to take advantage of our opportunities in 18 and 20.

[Magoo48]

56. Yup!

I'm 69 years old, but I'm firmly in step with the majority of millennials on this one. Unless we move far away from the entrenched, corporate-democrats toward a more progressive paradigm, one which embraces our younger voters and doesn't simply condescend to them...one which truly reflects the ethnicity and gender of Democrats nation wide, then I too will be looking for something new after being a lifelong democrat.

[Blue_Tires]

58. Then they need to get off their spoiled asses and form one

but we all know that ain't ever happening...

[Voltaire2]

67. Yes! That's a great message. This should be the central theme of our program to pull them into our

party.

"Get off your spoiled asses and the lawn!".

[X_Digger]

59. .. but the slacktivists won't get out and do anything about it. n/t

[JI7]

61. There already are third parties.

[SharonClark]

65. True. Thank.you for pointing that out.

[sandensea]

62. It had better be a far-right party then.

If it's a centrist or leftist party, we'll have the same problem the U.K. has had since the late '70s: Conservatives tend to win - even with 40% of the vote or less - because the opposition in effectively divided.

[moda253]

84. Correct and this is why Russia invested in promoting third parties.

We could do the same.

I am of the mind that it is worth analyzing the concept of promoting candidates to run as a tea party candidate where it makes sense that we could pull enough votes from republicans to give Democrats a chance in red states where we typically lose. It could open up a chance for us to grab some seats even at lower levels of government to wake up red states. Pry up the edges of their strongholds and keep working that until we lift their hold on those areas.

[Voltaire2]

66. Well we've done a great job so far alienating this generation.

Keep up the good work!

[Demsrule86]

71. If having fucking Trump as president doesn't make them anxious to vote for the only party that can

stop him (Democratic Party), than they are a lost cause and probably Republicans or Russian trolls.

[Voltaire2]

106. If having fucking Trump as president doesn't make them anxious to vote for the only party that can

stop him (Democratic Party), then (Democratic Party) is doing something horribly wrong.

[Demsrule86]

119. No ...they are too stupid to vote properly and will pay the price. No party is or ever will be

perfect and no party will ever be universally loved...so we need our big tent and these whiners need to grow up and learn discernment. I also suspect more than a few are third party supporters and Republicans...who will never under any circumstances vote Democratic and that their objective is to cause trouble for the party so as to cause Democratic electoral losses. I have concluded that 16 was an anomaly and we will kick butt in 16 and 20.

[rainin]

79. I agree.

If there were any millennials who stopped in to look to DU for educational material, they need only to read the comments on this thread to see how disrespected they are. I'm glad to see other members see this, too.

[Demsrule86]

93. How disrespected they are...curious phrase...

How nice that they now have you to er respect them.

[rainin]

95. I was very clear when I said a few

were hostile. Thank you for helping my case.

[Demsrule86]

121. If you refer to those who didn't vote for Clinton in the General...I am hostile...

Fuck them. And not getting your own way in all things is not 'disrespecting'...it is called real life.

[EllieBC]

110. Do they have to be coddled and offered presents?

How about they start at the bottom and do some grass roots work instead of deciding they'll change stuff at the top and if they feel bad then they'll take their toys and go home. No one is going to beg for their support. They can't be bothered to vote so they have to be wooed?

[Voltaire2]

111. political parties win by APPEALING to voters.

[Sancho]

68. Young people don't vote...

and haven't since the 80s.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2017/05/voting_in_america.html

http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics

The polls may be correct, but unless the 20-somethings register and vote, their opinions don't matter. Here in Florida, the percent of retired right-wing idiots and country bumpkins vote at a much higher percentage than college students and young adults.

Yes, it's "trendy" with youngsters to say you're "independent", and simply don't register or participate. My wife and I teach these young people (going on 40 years), and we see it every day. If you ask young parents picking up kids from school, or HS/college students - most have not registered. The ones who have registered are usually gun nuts or someone whose GOPer employer pushed them to contribute to the repubs.

There are very few liberal groups that are politically active, but recently I've seen some action with women. Hopefully it's a trend that will change the participation of millennials.

[workinclasszero]

92. Right

Most of these people never vote in the first place.

They will wish to God they voted democratic party real, real soon though.

[Mosby]

78. this is essentially a push poll

There already are third parties, the authors wanted to show that both major parties are the same and the respondents didn't let them down.

I want to do a poll about whether we need new media outlets in this country.

[socialist_n_TN]

126. Didn't it say a third MAJOR political party?....

And both political parties support capitalism and almost half (and growing) of Millennials are ANTI-capitalist. So in that way they ARE the same.

[Mosby]

132. if millenials bothered to vote

They could make the socialist party a major party.

Last midterms 18% of 18-29 year olds voted.

Eta that's the weird thing about the question, no one waves a magic wand and creates a major party, there needs to be interest and involvement.

[Cold War Spook]

96. No strong third party

until the Constitution is changed. Now it reads that if no one get at least half of the electoral college votes it goes to Congress, there isn't a runoff election. The House votes for President, one vote per state and the Senate votes for vice-President. If the House can not get a 50% vote for any candidate then the Speaker of the House is acting President up to four years when there is another election. Neither party will vote to change the Constitution on the electing of the President.

[Wwcd]

101. Now that the Kochs bought ownership in Meredith, their dream can come true

Tea party was bought by Kochs to bust the Republican Right, and now a 3rd Party, "Tea Party" to bust the Dem Left.

Gee I wonder who they're going to run as their candidate?

Oh ya, the same one they financed last time.

[tomp]

102. I've been saying a third party is inevitable for some time.

The issue is what will that party represent? I have envisioned as a true progressive party, decidedly to the left of the current "centrist" dominated democratic party.

I have no idea what these millenials would expect from this supposed new party. Note that it's a solid majority but it ain' t unanymous, and it only says they think the government is doing a bad job. It doesn't say what they think abgood job would look like.

[Wwcd]

103. True progressive?

Sen Paul Wellstone was the last true progressive we had.

He worked with Democrats, not against them.
If a true progressive party emerges it will have to carry the platform of Wellstone, who defined the word.

Otherwise it is theft of his party title for someone elses gain.
They need to name it something else rather than re-define it.
Wellstone already wrote the Progressive Party platform in his remarkable career.

Example would be his standing up for those with no voice against big $$$, as in the case of Seirra Blanca, Tx & the Toxic dumping of out of state waste.
Some who legislated for it still profit from that disaster to this day.

That was what defined a True Progressive.
Find another Paul Wellstone who lives by that platform & you'll have a strong Party.

Otherwise its an insult to the True Progressive Party.

[Neoma]

117. I think that the party has pressed the pause button.

Since neither candidate from the Democratic Party won, the Democratic Party can do one of these 3 things.

1. Fill up with young progressive voters who were originally for Bernie to change the party from within. With stances that are drastic in order to recover from a Trump presidency. Incremental change won’t work to repair the damage after Trump gets out of office.

2. A third party will be created where all the progressives will join and the Democratic Party becomes more like old timey republicans since they feel no reason to appeal for progressives anymore and the Republican Party completely dies out.

3. The Democrats lose the millienial vote and Republicans will win time and time again until this country is destroyed.

[louis c]

123. Let's see if we can't have a strong third party to take more votes away from Democrats

Then we can have a whole new generation of Trumps for as far as the eye can see.

I never know why we can't realize that our system is not designed for third parties. A parliamentary system is, but that's not us. If people of similar interests split the vote, our opponents win.

Young people should get involved in one party or the other (preferably the Democratic Party). Influence it. Take it over with huge participation. Win the primaries and we will support your candidate in the General Election. But, if you participate and your candidate loses, you have to join us for the greater good in the General Election. Next time, when your candidate wins, we'll join you, and progress continues in the correct direction.

Split the vote, sit out the General Election, vote for an obscure third party candidate, leave the ballot blank, or stay home, then we are all fucked.

[Neoma]

129. But what if the Republican Party completely collapses?

Surely we can’t have a one party system.


Personally I think there should be two seperate elections. One to weed out 6+ parties into two contenders and then everyone votes again with which one they’d want to choose.

[louis c]

133. There are a lot of hypotheticals that make sense

Such as rank voting, but I deal in realism, and those alternatives ain't here yet.

[socialist_n_TN]

125. I haven't seen anybody on this thread set the results of this poll.........

into the wider context of society and the political beliefs of the Millennial generation. The Millennials are ANTI-CAPITALIST for the most part. I won't call them "socialist" even though a LARGE minority claim this affiliation because their version of socialism is more of a social democratic, Bernie Sanders type than a true socialism. But the major point is that Millennials DO NOT SUPPORT CAPITALISM!

Even the libertarian Millennials are anti-crony capitalist, which is what they think we have today. And the only way that their view of capitalism will change is if capitalism changes and begins to take into account the hardships of the vast majority of the country that's NOT in the top 10 to 20 percentile of wealth. And I don't think that capitalism in its senility is able to do that short of an existential threat to it's very existence. IOW, the trend line for the foreseeable future with the Millennial generation, now the largest generation in US history, is towards a more and more anti-capitalist direction. And as the education on the subject of socialism continues, the trend will be in a more socialist direction.

When you take this into account, it's easy to see why Millennials think there needs to be another major political party. Simply put, both Republicans AND Democrats SUPPORT CAPITALISM. Millennials recognize this fact of American political life and are reacting to it by wanting another option that more closely supports their view of the world.

[KPN]

141. Good post.

Millennials are the future. We will pay attention to them whether we choose to or not ultimately. They inspire optimism in me about the future.

[moda253]

127. Until Citizens United is over turned I don't care if you create 10 more parties

The result is going to be the same unless CU is overturned somehow. The powerful will ALWAYS find a way to buy off the politician or those underneath him. Always. Because people.

These people that want a party that doesn't exist have this fallacy that they can find a massive group of altruistic people that cannot be influenced and that is not a reality. Especially under the current laws. Sure with your rag tag group you might hold it togehter for a little bit. But not once you get to be big enough to actually start challenging in an actual election. They could do it at the ground level with dog catcher, school board, and then onto mayor, and eventually state legislature, but they never want to put in the time, money, and work to go through those processes.

Meanwhile they will forgo the one vehicle they have to try to stop the nightmare that we are in and possibly change campaign finance. Because of some stupid false equivalency between the two major parties.

[continentalop2]

128. Anyone who thinks third parties have a chance needs to watch this video...

[treestar]

130. LOL do they think one will be provided

or do they realize they have to start one?

[moda253]

131. It is a real problem

[img][/img]

[Bradical79]

134. They can want it all they want

But it's not going to happen without a strong bottom up effort. There will never be a third party/independant President under the current system. To change the system you need congress. To get congress, you need to win in each individual state for Senate and your districts for house. Many of those processes aren't favorable to indies, so you have to go to work on local and state level government too. It's a long term effort that starts with not staying home in off year elections, and actually attacking voter supression/partisan gerrymandering efforts constantly.

I would have zero problem with a 3+ party system that doesn't just hand elections to Republicans. But a major third party is just needlessly destructive with the way our elections are structured.

[Skittles]

136. I don't blame them

not at all

[ileus]

137. We need to make these people realize WE ARE THE ONLY WAY.

If anything we need one less political party...And the sooner we can eliminate the GOP the better.

[KPN]

140. Millennials are the future. They are

the only way. You/we aren't going to make them do, think or realize anything -- at least not by yammering at them. They are responding to results, to the record.

Maybe it's us, we who needs to realize something.

[KPN]

142. Millennial are the future.

Get over it folks. Ridiculing them doesn't change that nor does it persuade their thinking.

Or we can just ignore them at our own peril.

Keep in mind that to many non-voters -- and this includes the millennial non-voters I have spoken with -- NOT VOTING IS A VOTE of no confidence in either party currently. So let's just go ahead and ridicule and call them names and demean them as slackers, lazy, idiots, the "privileged/entitled generation", and several other pejoratives I see appearing upthread and elsewhere. That's a winning strategy!

Geesh!

[johnnyrocket]

144. Except "third party" does NOT work in US system.

It's always a coalition around two parties. Unfortunately millennials have been brainwashed by their parents that Dems are bad, but they see with their own eyes the GOP is an abomination.

So this third party nonsense catches on.

[Calista241]

146. So, could Ross Perot have won the 1992 election against Bush / Clinton?

If he hadn't have withdrawn for 3 months, and then reluctantly re-entered the race?

I've always wondered if he could've won if he hadn't have withdrawn.