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Mon Sep 25, 2017, 06:20 PM

U.S. appeals court agrees that University of Cincinnati can't suspend student accused of sex assault

Source: WCPO Cincinnati

The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal’s 3-0 ruling agreed with a federal judge’s 2016 preliminary injunction after the student appealed his University of Cincinnati suspension. He claims his constitutional rights to due process were violated.

Judge Richard A. Griffin, writing the appeal court’s opinion, said the judges are “sensitive to the competing concerns” in the case and agree UC has a strong interest in eliminating sexual assault on its campus and providing appropriate discipline for offenders.

The University of Cincinnati student referred to as “John Doe” contends he was denied a fair hearing without confronting his accuser, who failed to appear at his university disciplinary hearing. He contends their sex at his apartment in 2015 was consensual, while she had reported it wasn’t. He met the woman referred to in court documents as “Jane Roe” through a dating app.

The court ruling said with the “he said/she said” nature of the case, UC officials needed to provide fundamental fairness to a state university student facing long-term exclusion.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/news/education/higher-education/uc-news/us-appeals-court-agrees-that-university-of-cincinnati-cant-suspend-student-accused-of-sex-assault

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Reply U.S. appeals court agrees that University of Cincinnati can't suspend student accused of sex assault (Original post)
Calista241 Sep 25 OP
iluvtennis Sep 25 #1
Marthe48 Sep 25 #2
NobodyHere Sep 25 #3
KWR65 Sep 25 #4
hack89 Sep 26 #6
KWR65 Sep 26 #8
hack89 Sep 26 #9
KWR65 Sep 26 #10
hack89 Sep 26 #11
KWR65 Sep 26 #13
hack89 Sep 26 #14
KWR65 Sep 26 #16
Major Nikon Sep 27 #18
LanternWaste Sep 28 #20
snooper2 Sep 26 #12
Yupster Sep 28 #21
melm00se Sep 26 #7
Pugster Sep 28 #19
mjvpi Sep 25 #5
KWR65 Sep 26 #15
mjvpi Sep 27 #17

Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Sep 25, 2017, 07:24 PM

1. I agree that he should be provided a hearing where the accuser and accused are both

examined and cross examined. I've always disliked the word "confront" your accuser,makes it sounds the accused is going to scare/intimidate them.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Sep 25, 2017, 07:55 PM

2. I thought his name and picture was plastered all over the place

around the time the CA swimmer rapist went unpunished? If I'm right and he was known to the public then, what good does it do for him to be listed as John Doe?

EDIT: I must have been thinking of Tyler Gishel

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Sep 25, 2017, 08:43 PM

3. Good ruling

 

Innocent until proven guilty

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Sep 25, 2017, 09:36 PM

4. She is the victim and he is the attacker.

This is not a criminal trial or even a civil trial so it is just based on the preponderance of evidence. He can find another University to attend or get a job.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 07:27 AM

6. No. That's not how it should work

this is something that will destroy his life and make getting a good job very hard. He deserves due process.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 10:25 AM

8. He shouldn't attack a woman and he won't have that problem

I guess because he is a privileged white man then he gets to do whatever he wants with no accountability.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 10:43 AM

9. And how exactly do we know he attacked a woman?

she didn't testify and he couldn't question her. Nor was he allowed a lawyer.

The answer to have the police handle all sexual assault cases.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 12:20 PM

10. Nonsense. This is not a criminal or civil trial.

This is a student conduct issue. If the victim wants to file a police report then they are allowed to and the DA can review the crime. This is no different then a student that abuses alcohol or gets into a fight while attending a college. The college can hold a hearing then decide if the student should remain, be expelled or be put on academic probation. This is entirely separate from criminal or civil law.
You are confusing the criminal and civil courts for a school issue. The attacker is not in danger of being imprisoned or being civilly liable by a court. The worst that can happen is an expulsion. The expelled student can find a new college to attend or obtain employment. The decision by the school is private by law so this will never come up on a professional background check.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 12:58 PM

11. Sexual assault should be a criminal issue. It is a serious matter.

I don't think you give the victim the choice. If she is going to publicly accuse someone of sexual assault then her only option is to file charges. No halfway measures that don't allow due process.

You are so cavalier about the impact on the accused. What if he really wants to go to that school? What if he has scholarships that he would lose?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:17 PM

13. It can be a civil court, criminal court and school issue.

It is up to the victim which way they want to address the issue.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:26 PM

14. Not if it is unfair to the accused.

but I don't think that is a consideration for you, is it?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:34 PM

16. How is hearing both sides of an attack then making a decsion unfair?

The school can expel a student for cheating, but if they attack a person the school can't decide the issue? The only time this is said is when a person complains about being raped. This is bias that any person that says they are raped must be a liar.

A defense lawyer knows the best way to win with a jury is to make the rape victim look like a nut or an slut to win a acquittal.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #16)

Wed Sep 27, 2017, 10:29 PM

18. The school can do whatever it wants

However, as a public institution, students are still entitled to due process and can appeal any decision such as the ones you mentioned to state or federal courts.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 28, 2017, 10:04 AM

20. There is an absurd bemusement

"I don't think that is a consideration for you, is it?"

There is an absurd bemusement when the dogmatic use that statement in regards to anyone but themselves.

(petulance is simply petulance, regardless of how one will rationalize it otherwise)

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:11 PM

12. I thank you for not going into law and/or becoming a judge

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 28, 2017, 10:26 AM

21. He might have that problem whether he attacked a woman or not

Sometimes accused people are innocent.

Honestly, it happens in all kinds of situations and accusations.

That's why we have lawyers, courts and judges. They are trained to handle these kinds of very serious accusations. Students, faculty members and college staff are not adequate to provide due process to everyone involved.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 07:38 AM

7. the University of Cincinnati

is a public university which makes it an arm of the state.

Any action that they take is government action and the government is obligated to follow the rules that govern it's action(s).

The appeals court definitely (in a unanimous decision) concluded that the defendant's (or in your words: attacker's) rights trampled by an agent of the state.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 28, 2017, 12:48 AM

19. You mean alleged victim

 

Right?

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Sep 25, 2017, 10:21 PM

5. Universities shouldn't have control over rape cases.

This should be a police matter and the university should deal with that out come. Too much stuff gets pushed under the rug to protect the university or the football team. Rape is about power, not sex. It's sad to think of a situation devolving, by over intoxication or immaturity, to a place where he said/she said is an actual outcome.

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Response to mjvpi (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:28 PM

15. No. The school can enforce it's own code of conduct.

What you are saying if a student cheats or abuses alcohol the school can take no disciplinary action at all. They must wait for a criminal court to decide a violation. This would lead to chaos on college campus.

I think a lot of this is driven by the wide spread belief that any victim of rape is looked at as a liar.

There is no outcry about colleges suspending or expelling students for fighting, drinking alcohol, cheating or disrupting campus. But if a college student is raped the college can do nothing about the attacker unless the DA decides to prosecute the attacker and wins a criminal conviction.

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 27, 2017, 07:40 PM

17. I agree with you.

At the university in my town, they protected football players by using university policy to avoid bringing in police. My post was short sighted. Thank you for what you said.

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