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Whoa_Nelly

(21,236 posts)
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:12 PM Aug 2012

Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

Source: abc.com

A mass shooting has occurred at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisc., this morning.

At least four people have been reported injured in the mass shooting and no suspect has been identified.

The incident reportedly occurred around 10:45 a.m. at the temple, just outside of Milwaukee.

According to information broadcast over police radio, a witness to the shooting told law enforcement the shooter was a white male, bald, with a heavy build. He was wearing a sleeveless T-shirt, according to Oak Creek Patch. He was last seen with two handguns.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-oak-creek-sikh-temple-milwaukee-oak-creek/story?id=16933779#.UB6pHk1lTP8

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Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin (Original Post) Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 OP
Bald white male with multiple guns!? villager Aug 2012 #1
You mean this guy? grahamhgreen Aug 2012 #10
That is a rifle... Keefer Aug 2012 #29
Nah! He never shot a man he didn't like n/t nichomachus Aug 2012 #50
Wayne LaPierre (on the left) began as a legislative aide to Democratic Virginia Delegate Vic Thomas AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #97
Yeah, it's probably a perfect time to join the pro-gun culture Doctor_J Aug 2012 #173
Bill Clinton seems to have some expertise. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #176
Obama has pandered to the NRA Doctor_J Aug 2012 #181
Although mentioning "the NRA" is a dog-whistle to some, it has no effect on me because AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #183
The guy on the right looks like he is already fantasizing about being alone with that gun. RC Aug 2012 #98
Well, those are definitely domestic terrorists... villager Aug 2012 #131
Local Police Scanner link Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #2
Thanks for the link. nt CJCRANE Aug 2012 #71
Another Moment of Silence - Guns otohara Aug 2012 #3
Sikhs believe in the brotherhood of man, and equality of all. The shooter must have seen his turban, alfredo Aug 2012 #4
That was my 1st thought. JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #57
+1 eom BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #59
Ignorance and a gun is a bad mix. alfredo Aug 2012 #114
how about sisterhood of women? Skittles Aug 2012 #125
Equality of women in Sikhism GliderGuider Aug 2012 #155
In their case brotherhood includes both genders. alfredo Aug 2012 #171
My thoughts and prayers Smilo Aug 2012 #5
The perpetrator probably mistook it for a mosque slackmaster Aug 2012 #6
Regardless of the shooter possibly making any associative mistakes Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #14
Or something equally dumb. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #20
$100 that this guy is a wingnut bigot who mistook Sikhs for Muslims. Odin2005 Aug 2012 #7
Yep. (nt) Posteritatis Aug 2012 #9
That's probably a given. Although it's also possible he just thought anyone non-Christian & foreign scarletwoman Aug 2012 #18
I remember after 9/11 hearing that a lot of Sikhs were harassed... Odin2005 Aug 2012 #24
A Sikh man was murdered right after 9/11. yardwork Aug 2012 #52
In Texas an idiot shot a gas station owner right after 9/11 Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #54
I believe another was killed in Phoenix, too. GoCubsGo Aug 2012 #101
i think that guy was executed a couple of years ago or even more recently nt arely staircase Aug 2012 #140
Yup... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #148
i think one of the guys he shot but survived said he didn't think he should be executed JI7 Aug 2012 #151
crap like that happened in my city... madrchsod Aug 2012 #110
Easy bet. sarge43 Aug 2012 #22
My bet on that one would be "first talking head to appear, period." (nt) Posteritatis Aug 2012 #23
Not going to bet against that harun Aug 2012 #34
And hates women and children apparently. lonestarnot Aug 2012 #66
+1 Shankapotomus Aug 2012 #73
That's an interesting description of the perp TheCowsCameHome Aug 2012 #8
It's pretty mcuh a stereotype, innit? Odin2005 Aug 2012 #16
Another 'if the shoe fits' situation, I suspect. TheCowsCameHome Aug 2012 #17
Stereotyping is a basic cognitive process, helps us function in unfamiliar contexts, like a patrice Aug 2012 #113
That's horrific. I hope they find the perp. No doubt he has a trial of rants online they can trace. progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #11
"Disgruntled white men" = racist AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #51
Um Okay. You're right.. there are NO angry white men who blame people of other races. n/t progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #61
Wrong. In fact, I think that "angry white men who blame people of other races" can be KKK members AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #84
Us poor maligned white guys. UnrepentantLiberal Aug 2012 #62
Well, it's not all bad. Nor are white guys always maligned. Some religious worshippers belief that AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #104
FAIL. Going postal on your ex-supervisor != emptying a gun into a place of worship. KamaAina Aug 2012 #78
Um, FAIL yourself. "Disgruntled white men" != either "Going postal on your ex-supervisor" or AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #83
thank you. nicely put. n/t progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #116
Oh boy. I am appalled at this. mysuzuki2 Aug 2012 #12
There is a Sikh who lives in my apartment building. Odin2005 Aug 2012 #28
My god. Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #13
Police scanner reporting fires breaking out in the temple Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #15
Abandoned food burning on the stove, according to the scanner. Adsos Letter Aug 2012 #27
Thanks EOM Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #35
du rec. nt xchrom Aug 2012 #19
Say a prayer. Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #21
What a conversation! AlbertCat Aug 2012 #25
An unfathomable event, indeed. Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #36
And I certainly do not elevate my prayers to the level of God's wisdom. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #42
Peace. Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #46
They are indeed the same G-d azurnoir Aug 2012 #90
"the same G-d"? A male bipod who looks just like us? Except for being invisible? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #99
actually that depiction G-d is from Christianity azurnoir Aug 2012 #117
Interesting. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #122
I think it is the Jesus thing azurnoir Aug 2012 #128
And (I'm not making this up) Mormons apparently believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #134
The joy is that we can regularly have these conversations in this country exboyfil Aug 2012 #108
Maybe Shiva, the Hindu God of Destruction, was listening? (Shiva is the God coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #161
As-Samia (All Hearing) harun Aug 2012 #38
Thank you. Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #39
Post removed Post removed Aug 2012 #48
Peace. Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #55
No thank you harun Aug 2012 #103
I believe God hears all prayers DesertRat Aug 2012 #85
well you and your Sikh 'friend' are wrong very wrong azurnoir Aug 2012 #86
Well, okay. Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #91
Sikhs are not mentioned in the Quran because Sikhs emerged in the 15th century azurnoir Aug 2012 #95
Sikhs do not worship the Abrahamic god. independentpiney Aug 2012 #120
it's not the guns 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #26
I tend to agree with you twizzler Aug 2012 #32
......because those ragheads did 9-11...... kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #138
Totally agree twizzler Aug 2012 #149
How many people could that guy take down at once with a knife or bat before being tackled? progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #41
+ One billion. Zoeisright Aug 2012 #56
Guns are people, my friend! Plucketeer Aug 2012 #82
I think a can of gasoline and some matches would do DBoon Aug 2012 #92
I'd rather take my chances with the can of gas primavera Aug 2012 #146
Yes, but it's the ease and convenience of weapons that are the issue. progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #162
There are conflicting reports that there are 2 gunmen holding hostages DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2012 #30
Wouldn't be the first time. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2012 #31
"Reports indicate 12 Children being held Hostage by Militia Men in Sikh Temple" Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #33
Meanwhile the headline on Drudge? ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2012 #37
and yet the gun industry and gun culture rolls on and on Botany Aug 2012 #40
Oh but guns are sooo SEXY (barf) Every video, movie, tv show, that features guns glamorizes them. progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #43
Bottom line is that it is RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE. bluedigger Aug 2012 #47
It's easier to attack the 2nd amendment LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #64
a violent gun-worshipping society makes hate much more deadly DBoon Aug 2012 #93
It's a cruel irony that a fundamental tenet of Sikhism is respect for all religions .... TahitiNut Aug 2012 #106
Sorry, but there are intolerant people EVERYWHERE, but the US is the place where they use guns progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #118
Cue the NRA to blame the person, his mother, and bad aiming Heather MC Aug 2012 #65
And the fact that the Sikh's didn't arm themselves properly Doctor_J Aug 2012 #174
That photo makes me sick Jessy169 Aug 2012 #80
Why? Did they have anything to do with this crime? n/t PavePusher Aug 2012 #87
yes Care Acutely Aug 2012 #121
+1 LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #127
In an indirect way, I believe yes, they did Jessy169 Aug 2012 #139
Obviously, we don't know the motivation for this shooting but... RedStateLiberal Aug 2012 #44
I'm noticing the same thing. The chickens are coming home to roost. yardwork Aug 2012 #133
he shot a cop too. this is on cnn live right now IcyPeas Aug 2012 #45
Officer shot, will survive ... auntAgonist Aug 2012 #49
Sure are alot of PEOPLE killing lately.. iamthebandfanman Aug 2012 #53
yep, we're on track for a record year of mass shootings Jessy169 Aug 2012 #144
Prove to me that you didn't just make something up and post it slackmaster Aug 2012 #169
Well.. in the past four years, an astronomical number of guns have been sold in America. progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #163
In spite of the fear-mongering, murders and other violent crimes have decreased for the past 4 years slackmaster Aug 2012 #167
K&R, sadly. WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2012 #58
If only Shadowflash Aug 2012 #60
Well, their (ceremonial) daggers are pretty useless against semi-automatic handguns. TahitiNut Aug 2012 #88
Even if he hadn't had a gun, JoeyT Aug 2012 #172
=More dead bodies gasser85 Aug 2012 #130
Yup. Shadowflash Aug 2012 #132
Another Christian Terrorist! citizen blues Aug 2012 #63
Nothing Christian about slaughter of the unarmed. Just nutfuckerian. lonestarnot Aug 2012 #69
CNN says UnrepentantLiberal Aug 2012 #67
Police: Officer at Sikh temple shooting "put down" 1 shooter; no word on shooter's condition Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #68
Just more guns used for their intended purpose. nt onehandle Aug 2012 #70
Ignore the gun psychos, onehandle. slackmaster Aug 2012 #76
New York Times reports seven dead. Hissyspit Aug 2012 #72
6 victims dead, plus 1 gunman dead kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #74
Live feed at link: Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #75
Press release from the Indian embassy: kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #77
4 hours in and still nothing on Drudge. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2012 #79
Skinhead? BootinUp Aug 2012 #81
I can hardly handle this--very close to where I live & I know some who worship here! :-( hue Aug 2012 #89
hundreds of miles away handmade34 Aug 2012 #94
My new next door neighbor came over to see if our Dish was working. revolution breeze Aug 2012 #105
(((RB))) nt blaze Aug 2012 #150
Hopefully you didn't let him tune to Fox Lies Doctor_J Aug 2012 #177
My satellite was out too revolution breeze Aug 2012 #189
Even money he's a teabagging Michelle Bachmann groupie. Archae Aug 2012 #96
More likely a member or wannbe of the Aryan Nation EOM Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #100
Whatever he was, he's dead now and no longer a threat. alfredo Aug 2012 #115
Prayers upon prayers to everyone there Iliyah Aug 2012 #102
Yep. Mass murder has become that gun industry lobby's best money making scheme. onehandle Aug 2012 #107
McVeigh didn't use a gun. Archae Aug 2012 #111
And there hasn't been another McVeigh in 17 years Doctor_J Aug 2012 #178
Are you calling me a moron? Archae Aug 2012 #179
The Sikhs amongst my acquaintences are absolutely hands down the most peaceful people I know. patrice Aug 2012 #109
Seven dead. So, how many more need to die before we address gun control? AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #112
How many more need to die before you address GOP control? GliderGuider Aug 2012 #124
You and us both primavera Aug 2012 #142
Before we address racism? Before we address religious hatred? LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #129
Those too primavera Aug 2012 #147
Yes, but that's what I was saying LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #153
Gun control would be a hell of a lot easier than curing ignorance, extremism, and bigotry. AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #154
Indeed. LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #156
Again. 7 humans dead by the existence of the GOP. BanTheGOP Aug 2012 #119
Would you stop making the same stupid-ass post Codeine Aug 2012 #145
Methinks he's both, liberalhistorian Aug 2012 #160
troll for sure, i thought he had been banned JI7 Aug 2012 #165
Crime rates have been falling for almost 20 years. The last four years are no different. slackmaster Aug 2012 #168
Nah, we don't need anymore gun control ... WTF MindMover Aug 2012 #123
Kick! n/t Tx4obama Aug 2012 #126
" A sikh must have the courage to defend the rights of all who are wrongfully brewens Aug 2012 #135
I pretty much guarantee you he did. I wonder what his FR handle was? kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #141
A moment of silence, please, for the victims of this senseless act of gun violence primavera Aug 2012 #136
FBI and ATF at a home in Cudahy, neighborhood being evacuated. kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #137
Stoopit journalist on the live feed asked what "domestic terrorism" was. kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #143
OMG get the red out Aug 2012 #152
She talked like a fresh young news babe. kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #159
This is so sad... Kalidurga Aug 2012 #157
Well, I can see that everyone will have to give up their freedom to remain safe.... lib2DaBone Aug 2012 #158
I think people would do it too which scares me more than anything. Mojorabbit Aug 2012 #164
By "give up their right to be safe", Doctor_J Aug 2012 #182
So how do you propose to get rid of those 200 million guns? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #184
how do you propose to stop the shooting rampages? Doctor_J Aug 2012 #185
How about single payer health care with mental health coverage? nt hack89 Aug 2012 #186
about as likely as the gun ban the NRA is screaming about Doctor_J Aug 2012 #187
If you could devote your time and effort to health care or gun control which would you pick? hack89 Aug 2012 #188
It's hard to not come to the conclusion that this was a deranged act of hate davidpdx Aug 2012 #166
An interesting freeper post... sufrommich Aug 2012 #170
Something nearly identical has been or will be posted in the gungeon Doctor_J Aug 2012 #175
Of *course* they are, because no Real Progressives (TM) disagree with you! friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #180

Keefer

(713 posts)
29. That is a rifle...
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:43 PM
Aug 2012

The story said two HANDGUNS.
Darth isn't wearing a sleeveless T-shirt either.
I think he's off the hook on this one.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
97. Wayne LaPierre (on the left) began as a legislative aide to Democratic Virginia Delegate Vic Thomas
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:02 PM
Aug 2012

and was a Democratic legislative aide when he joined the NRA in 1977.

In 1996 when some Democrats in positions of power in Washington, DC pushed for anti-gun legislation, LaPierre's influence and the influence of the NRA under his leadership increased signifigantly. Many Democrats in Congress lost their seats because they acted contrary to the public's wishes and acted in an undemocratic manner. The anti-gun legislative efforts helped elect a signfigant number of Republicans, including VP Cheney who obtained five draft deferments and never held a M-14 or M-16 in Viet Nam.

Should anyone think that resuming a push for anti-gun legislation would produce a different result?

If so, just look at the smirk on Cheney's face and remember all those Republicans who were elected.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
176. Bill Clinton seems to have some expertise.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:23 PM
Aug 2012

With respect to the 1994 election, in his recently-released book "My Life," he said:

"Just before the House vote (on the crime bill), Speaker Tom Foley and majority leader Dick Gephardt had made a last-ditch appeal to me to remove the assault weapons ban from the bill. They argued that many Democrats who represented closely divided districts had already...defied the NRA once on the Brady bill vote. They said that if we made them walk the plank again on the assault weapons ban, the overall bill might not pass, and that if it did, many Democrats who voted for it would not survive the election in November. Jack Brooks, the House Judiciary Committee chairman from Texas, told me the same thing...Jack was convinced that if we didn't drop the ban, the NRA would beat a lot of Democrats by terrifying gun owners....Foley, Gephardt, and Brooks were right and I was wrong. The price...would be heavy casualties among its defenders." (Pages 611-612)

"On November 8, we got the living daylights beat out of us, losing eight Senate races and fifty-four House seats, the largest defeat for our party since 1946....The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage...." (Pages 629-630)

I'm not sure whether "it's probably a perfect time to join the pro-gun culture," but it is time for those who are opposed to the private ownership of firearms for self-defense or other lawful purposes to act in a way consistent with Democratic values, learn from experience, and listen to the voices of Democrats and independents. This includes listening with respect to gun-owning Democrats and gun-owning independents.
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
181. Obama has pandered to the NRA
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:24 AM
Aug 2012

more than any other Dem in history, and the result is that he appears weak and appeasing - trying to make friends with those who hate his guts. For every Hate Radio addict that might suddenly have an epiphany and vote for him, he will lose 5 votes from the people who elected him in 2008. Those people expected him to take on the NRA, not befreind them. Of course they also expected him to support unions, reduce military spending, support public education, reject Republican economic policies, hold firm on social security and Medicare, and actually fight back when the fascists attack him. They've been disappointed on all fronts, and will of course be blamed for not supporting him enough.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
183. Although mentioning "the NRA" is a dog-whistle to some, it has no effect on me because
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:38 PM
Aug 2012

(1) I have no serious interest in the NRA and do not perceive whatever it is that you think that they've done that is wrong, and
(2) the association falacy does not work with me.

From Wikipedia:

An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

In contrast to FDR, JFK, and other Democratic Presidents who were life members of the NRA when it existed exclusively or primarily as a gun-safety organization (prior to the politicalization of the organization with the 1994 anti-gun law), I don't even know whether Obama has ever been a member of the NRA.

The NRA has become politicalized thanks to the 1994 Act. But I don't see how that affects me or (if the NRA has engaged in some wrong undescribed by you) how I can change that. Since 1994, the NRA has become an active supporter of many Republican candidates. But it also remains an active supporter of some Democratic candidates. The mere fact that the NRA has supported some Republican candidates is not inherently unusual nor does it show that everything that the NRA does is wrong. If you believe that NRA has done something wrong, why not describe that wrong instead of saying "Obama has pandered to the NRA."

As Wikipedia explains,
McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

You say that "Obama has pandered to the NRA more than any other Dem in history." I see no evidence of that. In fact, I don't even know or suspect Obama of being a NRA sympathizer.

If you have evidence to support your statement "Obama has pandered to the NRA more than any other Dem in history," where is it?
 

RC

(25,592 posts)
98. The guy on the right looks like he is already fantasizing about being alone with that gun.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:05 PM
Aug 2012

Probably why they cropped the picture where they did.
I really do not understand why people can be so enamored with killing machines. The more macho looking the better.

alfredo

(60,065 posts)
4. Sikhs believe in the brotherhood of man, and equality of all. The shooter must have seen his turban,
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:18 PM
Aug 2012

and thought they were Muslims. Thank the Republicans and their illiterate followers in the Christian right.

JohnnyRingo

(18,581 posts)
57. That was my 1st thought.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:22 PM
Aug 2012

Maybe not, but the right wing media distortion of any religion except Christian, and the description of the shooters, indicates a hate crime to me. Freeper types see anyone with dark skin and a turban as a "muzzie" coming to impose Shariah law.

Sometimes the more information some people absorb, the dumber they get.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
155. Equality of women in Sikhism
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:48 PM
Aug 2012
http://realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248311765&ucat=7

Q: What is the role and status of women in Sikh society?

A: In Sikhism men and women are equal.

In fourteenth century, before the time Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Indian women were severely degraded and oppressed by their society. Given no education or freedom to make decisions, their presence in religious, political, social, cultural, and economic affairs was virtually non-existent. Woman was referred to as the root of all evil, snare, and temptress. Her function was only to perpetuate the race, do household work, and serve the male members of society. Female infanticide was common, and the practice of sati was encouraged, sometimes even forced. In Sati system, if the husband of any women dies then the women was to cremate alive with his husband’s body. Guru Amar Das Ji, the third Guru of Sikhs, raised his voice and denounced the Sati system. He made every possible attempt to eliminate the Sati system and achieve equality for women.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji condemned this man-made notion of the inferiority of women, and protested against their long subjugation. The Ultimate Truth was revealed to Guru Nanak Dev Ji through a mystic experience, in direct communion with God. Guru Nanak Dev Ji conveys this Truth through his scripture as follows:

"Man is born from a woman; within woman, man is conceived; to a woman he is engaged and married. Man is friends with woman; through woman, the future generations exist. When his woman passes away, he seeks another woman; to a woman a man is bound. So why call her bad? From her, kings are born. From a woman, woman is born; without woman there would be no one at all" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 473).

Smilo

(1,944 posts)
5. My thoughts and prayers
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:18 PM
Aug 2012

go out to the Sikh community.

The Sikh religion is one of the most tolerant I know.

Hope they get the shooter and quickly.

Whoa_Nelly

(21,236 posts)
14. Regardless of the shooter possibly making any associative mistakes
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:25 PM
Aug 2012

This had to be premeditated, making it fall under several categories, including Attempted First Degree Murder, Terrorism, Hate Crime, and more.
I hope they get this guy soon.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
20. Or something equally dumb.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:33 PM
Aug 2012

I agree, a Sikh temple is not quite as dumb as a mosque.




I KNOW what you meant! English is hard though.....

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
18. That's probably a given. Although it's also possible he just thought anyone non-Christian & foreign
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:32 PM
Aug 2012

needed to be eliminated.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
24. I remember after 9/11 hearing that a lot of Sikhs were harassed...
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:37 PM
Aug 2012

...because people thought turbans = Evil Muslin Terrist.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
54. In Texas an idiot shot a gas station owner right after 9/11
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:14 PM
Aug 2012

and then hung around for the police and was all grins thinking he was going to get a bounty or a medal.

When he was told the guy he shot was from India, he said, "What difference does it make?"

These racist bastards consider anything non-white as sub-human.

JI7

(89,182 posts)
151. i think one of the guys he shot but survived said he didn't think he should be executed
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:20 PM
Aug 2012

i think he was just against the death penalty. and the guy wanted forgiveness.

but this is just ignorance in this country. when wingnuts complain about muliculturalism they create ignorance. why are wingnuts so against learning , especially about things that are different or might show things are not as they thought before.

why are they so scared. and these are the people who tend to go out arming themselves .

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
22. Easy bet.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:35 PM
Aug 2012

Also a member of a local 'militia' gang.

Hard bet: First MSM talking head to say "terrorism".

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
73. +1
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:52 PM
Aug 2012

I came here just to say that only to see about a bazillion people beat me to it.

On a somber note, it this really sucks. Guy must be an idiot on multiple levels.

My heart goes out to the victims of that imbecile.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,163 posts)
8. That's an interesting description of the perp
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:20 PM
Aug 2012

now who could possibly fit a mold like that? Hmmmm. Let me think........

TheCowsCameHome

(40,163 posts)
17. Another 'if the shoe fits' situation, I suspect.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:30 PM
Aug 2012

It'll be interesting to see his background once he's nabbed.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
113. Stereotyping is a basic cognitive process, helps us function in unfamiliar contexts, like a
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:50 PM
Aug 2012

hypothesis, they're useful, but become dysfunctional when they cease to be hypotheses and become conclusions instead, even after reliable and valid information that may or may not support the stereotype is perceived.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
11. That's horrific. I hope they find the perp. No doubt he has a trial of rants online they can trace.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:22 PM
Aug 2012

Reminds me of the scary person that posted the gun pointed at the camera, while ranting in a rage against the "being liberal" page. Same personality. Disgruntled white men, who are angry at how their own lives turned out, and need to blame other people. The Fox "news" machine has done what the set out to do... dehumanize people who are different, so that guys like that have someone to blame for their failures and for the fleecing of the middle class... instead of the real bad guys.

I hope everyone recovers fully from this shooting. I remember when the bullshit rhetoric after 9/11 and during Palin's campaign, led to many attacks on Sikhs, because people believed they were Muslim.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
51. "Disgruntled white men" = racist
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:05 PM
Aug 2012

You are overlooking the criminality and deaths caused persons of other races.

Just as one example, last week not far from the latest shooting,

George Hites, 58, of Milwaukee was shot multiple times by Thaiv Xiong, 23, of Milwaukee about 6 p.m. Thursday at the northwest side manufacturing plant at 7878 N. 86th St.
...
"We have the classic disgruntled employee-immediate supervisor circumstance where sadly, for reasons that are best known to the deceased employee, he developed a grudge against his boss and acted out in a violent way that resulted in that man's death," (Milwaukee Police Chief) Flynn said.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/counselors-on-hand-after-workplace-shooting-0d6bsss-164873936.html
 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
84. Wrong. In fact, I think that "angry white men who blame people of other races" can be KKK members
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:21 PM
Aug 2012

or other people with racists tendencies.

You certainly don't want to be like those in the KKK and use a broad brush to blame "angry white men." If you otherwise do, there is no excuse for your actions.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
104. Well, it's not all bad. Nor are white guys always maligned. Some religious worshippers belief that
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:16 PM
Aug 2012

there is a God which looks like us. A white male bipod. Except for the invisible part.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
83. Um, FAIL yourself. "Disgruntled white men" != either "Going postal on your ex-supervisor" or
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:18 PM
Aug 2012

"emptying a gun into a place of worship".

"Disgruntled white men" means "Disgruntled white men".

mysuzuki2

(3,521 posts)
12. Oh boy. I am appalled at this.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:23 PM
Aug 2012

I live in Milwaukee and I hate to see something like this in our community. There are a number of Sikhs in this area and they are a tolerant and peaceful bunch. The people suggesting that they were mistaken for Muslims and targeted by a bigot may well prove true. We have our share of that sort here too, unfortunately.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
28. There is a Sikh who lives in my apartment building.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:40 PM
Aug 2012

Really nice guy, studying to become a psychiatrist.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
13. My god.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:25 PM
Aug 2012

What do you want to bet: THIS is what happens when you get ignorant assholes loaded to the teeth with weaponry they should be too stupid and/or hateful to have.

Sending positive healing vibes to the victims and their families.

Whoa_Nelly

(21,236 posts)
15. Police scanner reporting fires breaking out in the temple
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:27 PM
Aug 2012

Apparently there are a few small fires breaking out inside the temple building due to the shooting.

Meanwhile, on the scanner, they are already widening the search area quickly and sending police to multiple locations to check out people of interest.

Don C. Nuttin

(84 posts)
21. Say a prayer.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:33 PM
Aug 2012

Two weeks ago today, my wife and I had lunch at the home of a Sikh friend and her children. I asked her if the Sikh god was the god of Islam. She said it was not. I told her that I asked because the god of Abraham (the god of the Jews) is the Christian god and is the Muslim god. She said she knew that. I told her I am Christian, and that I personally believe my god hears all prayers. She said she believes her god hears all prayers. But she added that she does not believe that Muslims in general believe that their god hears the prayers of non-Muslims. I told her that I was under that impression, too.

I left her home thinking that she and I do worship the same god, but that we each ernestly believe in different stories of god.

Today the Sikhs are in my prayers.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
25. What a conversation!
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:37 PM
Aug 2012

It appears though that nobody's god heard anybody's prayers....so.... maybe neither of those gods are even there! They both are pretty unreliable.

Don C. Nuttin

(84 posts)
36. An unfathomable event, indeed.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:51 PM
Aug 2012

Have a good day and a good life, AlbertCat.

Days like today are indeed hard on people of faith, just as they are hard on people without faith.

That said, I do not presume to know what everybody's prayers are.

And I certainly do not elevate my prayers to the level of God's wisdom.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
90. They are indeed the same G-d
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:37 PM
Aug 2012

it has been a component of Rightwing Islamiphobic disinformation to claim that Allah means some other G-d when in fact it does not, I wish I could be surprised at seeing it repeated here on DU

Islam believes its follows are descendents of Ishmael another of Abraham's sons

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
117. actually that depiction G-d is from Christianity
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:01 PM
Aug 2012

far more than Islam or Judaism who believe G-d is without form

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
122. Interesting.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:12 PM
Aug 2012

That's another thing which I did not know.

Of course, logically, if the Christian God has a form and the Islam/Judasim G-d does not, then they cannot be the same God or G-d.

It is somewhat more logical to believe in a God or G-d which does not have any form. But if I wanted to believe in a God or G-d, I think that I would prefer to have him look like me.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
128. I think it is the Jesus thing
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:38 PM
Aug 2012

my understanding of Christian beliefs is that Jesus was G-d taken physical form as G-ds son but I could be wrong too

eta it's the Messiah thing Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah where as Muslims and Jews believe the Messiah has not yet come same G-d though

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
108. The joy is that we can regularly have these conversations in this country
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:33 PM
Aug 2012

They go on in college dorms all across the country and on buses going to high school activities like speech, sports, etc. That is America. My Jewish debate partner and I had wonderful converstations as well as I grew up. My atheist roommate from Hong Kong was a wonderful person to share a room with and spend time enjoying our mutual interests and understanding each others beliefs. My Muslim friend from one of my jobs was one of the kindest and most caring persons I have ever met (as could be said about my Mormon boss at another job).

God will damn us if we can't keep that joy alive in my opinion. I know what my church teaches about salvation, but I also know what it teaches about how you treat your fellow man and woman.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
161. Maybe Shiva, the Hindu God of Destruction, was listening? (Shiva is the God
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:05 AM
Aug 2012

Robert Oppenheimer alluded to upon the successful A-bomb test at Los Alamos.)

harun

(11,348 posts)
38. As-Samia (All Hearing)
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:53 PM
Aug 2012

For Muslims, one of the 99 names of God is All Hearing. Meaning He hears all, including prayers from all people.

Any 8 year old Muslim would know this. There can be only one Creator of the Universe, and that is the God Muslims worship.

FYI

Don C. Nuttin

(84 posts)
39. Thank you.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:56 PM
Aug 2012

Obviously my Sikh friend did not know that.

Obviously I did not know that.

Neither one of us is 8 years old.

But neither one of us is Muslim.

I thank you.

Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #39)

Don C. Nuttin

(84 posts)
55. Peace.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:18 PM
Aug 2012

Wiktionary seems to agree with Harun that for Muslims one of the 99 names of God is All Hearing.

You do point out that people who believe in God (and especially people who believe in one god) have more in common with one another than they do with non-believers. As I have admitted, I am substantially ignorant of Islam. But I've got no need to make fun of Harun.

I do unconditionally wish you peace.

Do you wish peace for me, for my Sikh friend, and for Harun?

For any one or two of us?

Or are all three of us just objects of ridicule to you?

How about the decedents and their loved ones?

Want to take another jab or two at their particular faith?

harun

(11,348 posts)
103. No thank you
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:12 PM
Aug 2012

It is very nice to hear when people enjoy engaging others about things they don't know instead of hating them.

And about the eight year old comment, unfortunately this is basic teachings that somehow people forget when they are older. So just because the religion teaches it doesn't stop people from being human.

So there are plenty of bad examples out there, I won't deny that. Glad you have a nice friend to talk to and share with.

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
85. I believe God hears all prayers
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:26 PM
Aug 2012

But the answers are not always what we want/expect. My prayers are with those killed today and their families.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
86. well you and your Sikh 'friend' are wrong very wrong
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:27 PM
Aug 2012

Al-Baqarah 2:62.19

Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Islam believes that they are the descendents of Abraham's son Ishmael, the 4 major prophets of Islam are Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad

Don C. Nuttin

(84 posts)
91. Well, okay.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:46 PM
Aug 2012

I am not sure why the word friend is in quotation marks.

Is it not okay to grieve the victims of the shooting (or, more generally, ever to grieve)?

Are Sikhs just out in terms of any possibility of favor with God because they:

- do not believe in the Qur'an

- do not follow the Jewish (scriptures)

- are not Christians or Sabians

It seems to me that Sikhs believe in God, although I don't know where they are on that whole Last Day thing. They are quite committed to working righteousness, if working righeousness generally equates to helping people in need of help. So I don't know how those plusses and question marks work together vis a vis the Sikhs.

I just hate being so very wrong and so very clueless.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
95. Sikhs are not mentioned in the Quran because Sikhs emerged in the 15th century
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:54 PM
Aug 2012

around 7 or 8 centuries after the Quran was written

independentpiney

(1,510 posts)
120. Sikhs do not worship the Abrahamic god.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:08 PM
Aug 2012

They do not revere Jesus or Muhammad or any of your prophets and don't believe in a judgement day. They believe in reincarnation and are probably closer to Hinduism in overall beliefs.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
26. it's not the guns
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:39 PM
Aug 2012

It's the atmosphere of hate and bigotry that has been allowed to not only peep out, but to proudly stand full monty.

It's the hate radio. It's the media lies. It's the new and faux Christians.

It's all hate, all the time.

 

twizzler

(206 posts)
32. I tend to agree with you
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:46 PM
Aug 2012

this person probably saw people wearing turbans, assumed they were Muslims, and decided to get even for, who the fuck knows.
My prayers to the Sikh community and to those injured and to the families of the injured.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
138. ......because those ragheads did 9-11......
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:16 PM
Aug 2012


Of course, that Sikhism has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam never occurs to the RW freaks.........
 

twizzler

(206 posts)
149. Totally agree
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:48 PM
Aug 2012

All this fucking bigot saw was turbans and said, oh look, muslims, I'm going to get revenge for 9/11.
At least the cop that was shot was able to return fire and kill him, limiting the carnage.
A true hero.
People rag on the police all the time, but most have no idea what we go through every day we pin the badge on.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
41. How many people could that guy take down at once with a knife or bat before being tackled?
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:56 PM
Aug 2012

Guns are weapons of FAST destruction, AND they contribute to a culture of violence.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
82. Guns are people, my friend!
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:15 PM
Aug 2012

An' ya gotta feel sorry for them being forced to do something they weren't meant to do....... wait, that don't sound right.

DBoon

(22,288 posts)
92. I think a can of gasoline and some matches would do
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:47 PM
Aug 2012

While I agree that the worship of guns in the US contributes to these crimes a mass killer can find other equally dramatic ways of taking people out

primavera

(5,191 posts)
146. I'd rather take my chances with the can of gas
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:38 PM
Aug 2012

I have a pretty decent chance of getting out of a burning building. A few hundred rounds intentionally aimed at me? Not so much.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
162. Yes, but it's the ease and convenience of weapons that are the issue.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:35 AM
Aug 2012

A morning service, in a very large temple, and one guy with a gas can and match. Not going to do much.

Guns are perfect for cowards. The can be far away from their target, and all they have to do is wiggle a finger to destroy hundreds of lives in a dozen shots. All the plots that people come up with as a way to say 'it didn't have to be a gun,' all require more work, more foresight, than just grabbing the guns and putting on gear.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
30. There are conflicting reports that there are 2 gunmen holding hostages
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:45 PM
Aug 2012

Who knows if this will turn out to be correct, but some are retweeting local media saying that they're receiving SMS from inside the temple saying there are 2 gunmen.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,846 posts)
31. Wouldn't be the first time.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:46 PM
Aug 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Balbir_Singh_Sodhi

On September 15, 2001, Frank Roque shot Sodhi five times, killing him instantly. Roque, who apparently wanted revenge for September 11, mistook him for an Arab because of the clothes he wore, his turban, and his beard. Within 25 minutes of his death, the Phoenix police reported four further attacks on people who either were Middle Easterners or who dressed with clothes thought to be worn by Middle Easterners.
 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
33. "Reports indicate 12 Children being held Hostage by Militia Men in Sikh Temple"
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:48 PM
Aug 2012

Per @sikhactivist on Twitter.

Botany

(70,292 posts)
40. and yet the gun industry and gun culture rolls on and on
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:56 PM
Aug 2012


Michael Moore was right after the shootings in Colorado nothing will change and
we have another and another mass shooting and nobody will do dick about it.

Bottom line: IT IS THE GUNS.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
43. Oh but guns are sooo SEXY (barf) Every video, movie, tv show, that features guns glamorizes them.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:58 PM
Aug 2012

I hate it. They serve one purpose: to kill.

bluedigger

(17,077 posts)
47. Bottom line is that it is RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:02 PM
Aug 2012

Guns don't cause hate crimes. Hate causes hate crimes.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
64. It's easier to attack the 2nd amendment
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:45 PM
Aug 2012

and blame the guns, than attack the 1st amendment and blame their god.

I personally would think that the mindset needs to be dealt with much more urgently than the weapons, but what do I know...

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
106. It's a cruel irony that a fundamental tenet of Sikhism is respect for all religions ....
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:27 PM
Aug 2012

... and a commitment to DEFEND the rights of all people to worship according to their own faith. Sikhism has many VERY admirable basic principles, including equality and freedom of ALL people. They were "casteless" when India was deeply caste-based and believed in full gender equality as far back as the 15th century!

It would be difficult to find daylight between Sikh beliefs and the UN Declaration of Human Rights ... and Sikhs got it right more than FIVE HUNDRED YEARS EARLIER.

The very notion of directing such hatred toward a community so devoted to defending EVERYONE'S rights is an abomination on top of an abomination.


progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
118. Sorry, but there are intolerant people EVERYWHERE, but the US is the place where they use guns
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:02 PM
Aug 2012

In America, where it's every angry asshole in the Country can get numerous weapons, it becomes a gun issue.

There are intolerant people in Japan, and in the UK, but their sane gun laws and lack of gun-glorified culture, means that shit like this doesn't happen all the time, or that mentally ill people are not allowed to amass large cache of weapons.

Jessy169

(602 posts)
139. In an indirect way, I believe yes, they did
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:18 PM
Aug 2012

Before Columbine in 1999, mass shootings in America were rare events. After 1999, there have been at least one or two mass shootings per year every year (except one i believe), and three mass shootings a few times and prior to this year, four mass shootings in one year. This year, we already have four mass shootings, and we still have almost have a year left to go. The rise in mass shootings, almost all of which were perpetrated with semi-automatic weapons, are most certainly directly related to the massive saturation of our society WITH semi-automatic weapons -- weapons that were never meant for hunting, just for killing people. The folks in that photograph are perfect poster-childs for the NRA lunacy that allows any wreck of a human being to walk into the gun store and walk out armed to the teeth. The smirk on the gal's face is an insult to the many people who have died or had their lives ruined as result of the proliferation of semi-automatic weapons into our society.

RedStateLiberal

(1,374 posts)
44. Obviously, we don't know the motivation for this shooting but...
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:58 PM
Aug 2012

...one thing's for sure from my recent experience. Wingnuts are angry. REALLY angry. I myself have been the target of outrageous outbursts of irrational hatred from close family members over partisan politics. We've seen more and more examples of right-wingers saying nutty things and acting crazy.

They are desperate. The Republican party is self-imploding. With every day it is becoming more clear that Obama will be re-elected and the GOP is on its way out - and it's their own damn fault for bowing down to the extremist elements in their party and nominating a terrible candidate for president.

I wouldn't be surprised if this shooting is a hate crime inspired by the wild accusations of Bachmann and other Rethugs. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a hate-inspired wingnut lashing out due to the irrational hatred that is whipped up by the lying liars such as Beck and Limbaugh.

Of course, I'm just speculating about this shooting but we should all beware. Today's Republicans are basically fascists. If they can't have their way they will act out and I wouldn't put violence past them.

After I vote on election day I'm going on lockdown because I just can't hope for the best from people who seem so delusional and full of irrational hatred.

I hope I'm wrong about this shooting, I really do, but it's hard to imagine it not being a hate crime inspired by wingnut rhetoric when the right's crazy levels are off the charts these days. If that turns out to be true then they damn well better be held accountable.

yardwork

(61,418 posts)
133. I'm noticing the same thing. The chickens are coming home to roost.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:58 PM
Aug 2012

People are angry and a lot of people are angry about the right things but for all the wrong reasons, and the targets of their anger are all wrong. It's not "liberals" that tanked the economy. It turns out that global warming isn't just a liberal myth made up to make Al Gore rich. It turns out that "Obamacare" is not socialist enough rather than being way too socialist. It turns out that "buy American" was a good idea that the Republicans destroyed. It turns out that Sikhs aren't Muslim and anyway the Muslims didn't do this to us we did it to ourselves.

auntAgonist

(17,252 posts)
49. Officer shot, will survive ...
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:03 PM
Aug 2012

SikhActivistNetwork ?@sikhactivist
Update: Police Officer shot, will survive. One suspect down at Sikh temple shooting. #TempleShooting.

iamthebandfanman

(8,127 posts)
53. Sure are alot of PEOPLE killing lately..
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:13 PM
Aug 2012

who just happen to be using a WEAPON designed SOLEY and SPECIFICALLY to KILL that has no other purpose beyond KILLING..

Jessy169

(602 posts)
144. yep, we're on track for a record year of mass shootings
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:24 PM
Aug 2012

Before this year, four mass-shootings in one year was the record. We're at four mass shootings this year already, with five months left to go. Record idiocy in the Republican Party. Record heat from global warming. Record mass shootings. Not a good year. If Romney somehow "wins", this could go down as one of the worst years ever.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
163. Well.. in the past four years, an astronomical number of guns have been sold in America.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:38 AM
Aug 2012

Because the NRA and the assholes on right wing radio and tv, have scared the unstable and ignorant people that 1) the economy is going to collapse. 2) the right wingers will be sent to fema camps 3) there will be martial law and the democrats will come for the guns 4) there are scary people with hoodies out there to steal their tv.

More guns on the street = more crime. Period. Whatever dipshit wrote "an armed society is a polite society" is full of shit. it's quite the opposite, actually.

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
88. Well, their (ceremonial) daggers are pretty useless against semi-automatic handguns.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:31 PM
Aug 2012

Every Sikh male must carry one, along with a comb and other items traditionally required by their faith.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
172. Even if he hadn't had a gun,
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:58 AM
Aug 2012

IIRC they aren't allowed to use them as a weapon, and it would be considered a terrible thing to do so.

My sleep deprived brain may be remembering wrong.

gasser85

(40 posts)
130. =More dead bodies
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:43 PM
Aug 2012

I know your post was sarcastic but I too have become intolerant of that crazy logic. As with the Aurora Massacre I've heard the usual people using that logic. It would just start a firestorm of wildly fired bullets causing greater loss of life.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
77. Press release from the Indian embassy:
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:08 PM
Aug 2012
http://www.indianembassy.org/prdetail2006/press-release

"Washington, DC

"We have seen reports on the tragic incident earlier today of firing at a group of worshippers in a Gurudwara in the Milwaukee suburb of Oak Creek, Wisconsin. The Embassy is seized of the situation and has been in touch with the National Security Council in Washington, D.C. Our Consulate General in Chicago too has been in close touch with the local authorities to monitor the situation. An official has been deputed to visit the site to ascertain the situation on-the-spot."

revolution breeze

(879 posts)
105. My new next door neighbor came over to see if our Dish was working.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:20 PM
Aug 2012

His family is in Wisconsin and he had lost his television signal due to a thunderstorm. He does not have Internet access yet and wanted to keep abreast of what is happening. Thankfully his mother and sister both finally called and had not left yet left home when this occurred.

revolution breeze

(879 posts)
189. My satellite was out too
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 11:05 AM
Aug 2012

But he was able to get on our computer and find news as well as chat with a friend. And it gave us a chance to get to know him better. Great addition to our diverse neighborhood.

Archae

(46,262 posts)
96. Even money he's a teabagging Michelle Bachmann groupie.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:56 PM
Aug 2012

"Those Muslims are infiltrating our government!"

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
107. Yep. Mass murder has become that gun industry lobby's best money making scheme.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:33 PM
Aug 2012

Started with their favorite gun rights poster boy, Timothy McVeigh.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
178. And there hasn't been another McVeigh in 17 years
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:32 PM
Aug 2012

while gun massacres are getting to be a weekly news item.

Moron.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
124. How many more need to die before you address GOP control?
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:19 PM
Aug 2012

The socialist hordes up here in Canuckistan are getting restless.

primavera

(5,191 posts)
142. You and us both
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:22 PM
Aug 2012

I'm beginning to think we should wall off the US like "Escape from New York." The whole country can be just one big penal colony for wing-nuts and the rest of the world can live in peace for a change.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
129. Before we address racism? Before we address religious hatred?
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:39 PM
Aug 2012

I agree we need basic controls on firearms, but they're far from being the root of the problem.

primavera

(5,191 posts)
147. Those too
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:46 PM
Aug 2012

But they're not mutually exclusive. When the US has a culture that does not kill 30,000 people a year with guns, I will be the first to champion gun rights. Until then, we can no more be trusted with them than an infant can be trusted with a hand grenade. Whatever the root causes of our numerous problems may be, we clearly are NOT ready for prime time when it comes to guns. To continuously pour deadly weapons into a society that is the sociological equivalent of a retarded child is suicidal.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
153. Yes, but that's what I was saying
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:26 PM
Aug 2012

There's been a huge rush lately to condemn the weapon while glossing over the actual problems.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
156. Indeed.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:54 PM
Aug 2012

Last edited Sun Aug 5, 2012, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Even if we succeeded in banning guns tomorrow, this time next year we'd be wondering what to do about all these bombings. The actual problems need to be addressed first.

 

BanTheGOP

(1,068 posts)
119. Again. 7 humans dead by the existence of the GOP.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:08 PM
Aug 2012

Until the GOP is banned, we will not make inroads on banning weapons. Priorities.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
145. Would you stop making the same stupid-ass post
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:27 PM
Aug 2012

across this board? No progressive has ever argued in favor of banning a political party -- that's just dumb. You're either a troll or you're just not too damned bright.

edited for punctuation

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
160. Methinks he's both,
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 11:47 PM
Aug 2012

a troll AND not too bright. Way too obvious from the beginning, his handlers must have cut back on the training budget.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
168. Crime rates have been falling for almost 20 years. The last four years are no different.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 09:29 AM
Aug 2012

In spite of the misleading vividness of spectacular crimes that are hyped by the media.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/preliminary-annual-ucr-jan-dec-2011/data-tables/table-3

brewens

(13,400 posts)
135. " A sikh must have the courage to defend the rights of all who are wrongfully
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:04 PM
Aug 2012

oppressed or persecuted irrespective of religion, color caste or creed." I never bothered to read anything about what the sikh's believe. I'm impressed by that. I did know they weren't muslim but I wonder if the shooter thought they were?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism

primavera

(5,191 posts)
136. A moment of silence, please, for the victims of this senseless act of gun violence
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:12 PM
Aug 2012

... and for the victims of the one before, and the one before that, and the one before that...

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
157. This is so sad...
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:13 PM
Aug 2012

More good people dead, because someone knows not what they hate. We will probably never get the full story as if we ever do. But, what we do know is that there are too many people carrying around hate and it is too often becoming deadly.

 

lib2DaBone

(8,124 posts)
158. Well, I can see that everyone will have to give up their freedom to remain safe....
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:24 PM
Aug 2012

Bring on the TSA Roadblocks... everyone will have to be stripped-searched at the supermarket on a daily basis to remain safe.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
164. I think people would do it too which scares me more than anything.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:07 AM
Aug 2012

I am getting up there but I think it will be a different world for the younger people. They can be talked so easily into giving up their freedoms for an illusion of safety.
I am reading this guy was a military vet. I hope that he was not one of those people sent for multiple tours and was damaged by it.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
182. By "give up their right to be safe",
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:28 AM
Aug 2012

I suppose you mean support a little gun control. Strange, people in the civilized parts of the world are far safer than we are, and don't have strip-searches at the supoermarket. I wonder if there is some other difference...wait! I know! They don't have 200 million guns in circulation!

Occum's Razor

hack89

(39,171 posts)
188. If you could devote your time and effort to health care or gun control which would you pick?
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:39 PM
Aug 2012

I would pick health care - it would save many more lives.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
166. It's hard to not come to the conclusion that this was a deranged act of hate
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 07:21 AM
Aug 2012

based on religion. I hope the FBI figures out what happened and makes the evidence public. The guy maybe dead, but people have a right to know what happened and why.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
170. An interesting freeper post...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 09:34 AM
Aug 2012

Claims to be a post on ATF board from shooter:

A letter from Wade M. Page is posted on the ATF website...

“From: Badman400 [[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:19 PM
To: Terrell, Barbara A.
Subject: No registering of long guns
Wake Up!!!!
No more restrictions on law abiding gun owners! These restrictions do nothing about the criminals they are meant to
affect. Why punish and render defenseless the very people that deserve to be protected while HELPING the offenders
with such laws? The only other use for such laws is for government to gain control over the people. This is America, and I
AM THE GOVERNMENT, not you! Remember who you work for, and your oath!
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make
things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they
serve to encourage rather than to prevent homicides, for an
unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an
armed man.”
-Thomas Jefferson
Sincerely,
Wade M. Page
Stop tying the hands of the good guys!”
http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/demand-letters/B%20Responses.pdf

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2915144/posts#comment

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
180. Of *course* they are, because no Real Progressives (TM) disagree with you!
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:51 PM
Aug 2012

Seriously, are you Fred Colon?

Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a postgraduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me.

Terry Pratchett, Jingo




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