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Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:18 AM

EXCLUSIVE Democrats in Congress to explore creating an expert panel on Trump's mental health

Source: STAT




By SHARON BEGLEY @sxbegle AUGUST 16, 2017

Three congressional Democrats have asked a psychiatrist at Yale School of Medicine to consult with them about forming an expert panel to offer the legislators advice on assessing President Trump’s mental health.

Yale’s Dr. Bandy Lee told STAT that over the last few weeks members of Congress or their staff have asked her to discuss how members might convene psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals “to review the president’s mental health, and review it on a periodic basis.” The closed meeting is expected to take place in September, she said.

The request came from three current congressmen and one former member, she said. She declined to name them, saying they told her they did not wish to be publicly identified yet.

The invitation comes as 27 representatives, all Democrats, have co-sponsored a bill to establish “a commission on presidential capacity.” The commission would carry out a provision of the 25th Amendment, which gives Congress the authority to establish “a body” with the power to declare a president “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.” Under the bill, H.R. 1987, eight of the 11 members of the commission would be physicians, including four psychiatrists.



Read more: https://www.statnews.com/2017/08/16/donald-trump-mental-health-congress/?s_campaign=tw&utm_content=buffer5bac8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

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Reply EXCLUSIVE Democrats in Congress to explore creating an expert panel on Trump's mental health (Original post)
DonViejo Aug 2017 OP
electron_blue Aug 2017 #1
Sunlei Aug 2017 #8
MrModerate Aug 2017 #12
tblue37 Aug 2017 #15
Tribalceltic Aug 2017 #26
pat_k Aug 2017 #29
pat_k Aug 2017 #28
Tribalceltic Aug 2017 #33
Gothmog Aug 2017 #2
Progressive dog Aug 2017 #3
extvbroadcaster Aug 2017 #4
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2017 #10
MrModerate Aug 2017 #13
pat_k Aug 2017 #30
BarbD Aug 2017 #5
pat_k Aug 2017 #32
Sunlei Aug 2017 #6
Honeycombe8 Aug 2017 #7
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2017 #9
dalton99a Aug 2017 #17
Lulu KC Aug 2017 #11
Paladin Aug 2017 #14
mopinko Aug 2017 #16
Sunlei Aug 2017 #18
Tanuki Aug 2017 #19
lark Aug 2017 #20
Hugin Aug 2017 #21
Kablooie Aug 2017 #22
Duppers Aug 2017 #23
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2017 #35
truthisfreedom Aug 2017 #24
Progressive2020 Aug 2017 #25
AlexSFCA Aug 2017 #27
JonLP24 Aug 2017 #31
Progressive2020 Aug 2017 #34
Duppers Aug 2017 #36
red dog 1 Aug 2017 #37
lindysalsagal Aug 2017 #38

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:27 AM

1. waste of time. He's abusive, not mentally ill. Just get him out of office based on other reasons.

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Response to electron_blue (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:04 AM

8. I agree, our elected Ds need to work for 'the people' & keep moving on the election attacks by Rs !!

Republicans got trump elected, they KNEW his background & character! LET THEM DEAL WITH THEIR lunatic-nazi!

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Response to electron_blue (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:21 AM

12. I dunno. After yesterday, the notion that Trump is clinically insane seems pretty compelling. n/t

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Response to electron_blue (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:36 AM

15. I think he has been displaying early symptoms Alzheimer's. Yes, he is an evil SOB, but

he also is probably suffering from dementia.

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Response to electron_blue (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:23 PM

26. What Phsycological standard tests did you apply , Doctor?

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Response to electron_blue (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:56 PM

28. DT is mentally ill: Antisocial Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder

DT is mentally ill. He meets the criteria for Antisocial and Narcissistic Personality Disorders. And based on public conduct, I have no doubt that an evaluation would put him way up on the Psychopathy Checklist.

Lying and "distorting reality" are hallmarks. He breaks every rule in the book in pursuit of his own ends. He lies and distorts reality to rationalize and justify his wrongful conduct. To puff up his over-inflated ego he stereotypes and denigrates those he sees as out-groups. His callous disregard for others and sense of entitlement appear to know no bounds. He weaves grandiose tales of his fearsome power, omnipotence, and unequaled brilliance. He is proudly abrasive and offensive. He clearly enjoys humiliating and embarrassing others, but reacts to any perceived slight to his own person, appearance, or accomplishments aggressively and vindictively.

I'm sure there have been U.S. presidential candidates, and presidents, who could be diagnosed with a personality disorder of some sort, but I can't think any of who exhibited this level of psychopathy. I can't think of any who met as many diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder, or who met as many criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Regarding Personality Disorders in general

There are four defining features of personality disorders. These are:

1) Distorted thinking patterns,
2) Problematic emotional responses,
3) Over- or under-regulated impulse control, and
4) Interpersonal difficulties.


I think it is pretty clear that DT exhibits these defining features.

Antisocial Personality Disorder DSM-5 301.7 (F60.2)

{Lengthy discussion that proceeds diagnostic criteria omitted}

There are four diagnostic criterion, of which Criterion A has seven sub-features
.
A. Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by three of the seven sub features:
1. Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
2. Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit tor self-amusement,
3. Impulsive behavior
4. Irritability and aggression, assaults others, or engages in fighting
5. Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
6. A pattern of irresponsibility and
7. Lack of remorse for actions (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)

The other diagnostic Criterion are:
B. The person is at least age 18,
C. Conduct disorder was present by history before age 15
D. and the antisocial behavior does not occur in the context of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder

(American Psychiatric Association, 2013)


DT meets A. He shows "Disregard for and violation of the rights of others." He exhibits at least four of the seven "sub-features."
Specifically 1 (sexual assault clearly warrants arrest), 2, 3, and 7 (I don't think there would be any argument on these three). Arguably he exhibits some of the remaining features. For example, he probably meets 3. He is clearly "irritable and aggressive," but I don't know of any reports of physical assaults in adulthood.

He only needs three of the sub-features to meet the criteria for A "Disregard for and violation of the rights of others"

He is certainly over 18, and from descriptions of him as a kid in [link:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2016/transcript/"Frontline: The Choice 2016]" he exhibited the same characteristics (plus physical aggression) from a young age.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder DSM-5 301.81 (F60.81)

The definition of NPD states that it is comprised of a persistent manner of grandiosity, a continuous desire for admiration, along with a lack of empathy. It starts by early adulthood and occurs in a range of situations, as signified by the existence of any 5 of the next 9 standards (American Psychiatric Association, 2013):
-- A grandiose logic of self-importance
-- A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
-- A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
-- A desire for unwarranted admiration
-- sense of entitlement
-- Interpersonally oppressive behavior
-- No form of empathy
-- Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
-- A display of egotistical and conceited behaviors or attitudes



On this one I'd say he's nine for nine (and only needs five for diagnosis).

The "Psychopathy Checklist" is highly correlated with the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Scoring is based on a structured interview, but, given the degree to which DT meets the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I have no doubt that DT's psychopathy score is very high.

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Response to pat_k (Reply #28)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 06:59 PM

33. pat_k I completely agree

I believe he blatantly shows himself to be a danger to himself and others and should be placed in psychiatric care for at least 72 hours.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:44 AM

2. Trump is unfit to be POTUS

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:47 AM

3. No, this is not about Trump's mental health

He is an immoral narcissistic psychopath. He is an infant in moral age. He is a toddler in intellectual age. That's what he has been and what he will remain.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:49 AM

4. Have to agree here, not mentally ill

Even though it might be nice to think of Trump as nuts, he is not. What he has is a severe, untreated, narcissistic personality disorder. And of course, several sub disorders that go along with it. So how did he become the person he is? Simple. His money, power, status, and of course his white skin insulated him from the problems a regular person would suffer with his disorder. If he was an average person, with average money, he would have found functioning in society very difficult. Employers would have fired him, women would not have wanted him, people would have seen him as a jerk and stayed away from him. He would not have been welcome in social gatherings, because who would want this asshole over to your house? His disorders would have left him isolated, broke, a failure. This might have driven him to treatment. None of that happened. He's never had a job working outside the family business. People have kissed his ass his entire life to be near his money. Women have given themselves to him for his cash and the power he holds. So to him, nothing is wrong. He's the best! He rules! He wins! And he does win. He's a con man, and ignorant, and a bigot, and unfit for office. Yet here he is, the leader of the free world. He is what he is, and will never change. Why should he? He won. He's the first to tell you that. Voters fell for a manufactured TV and book image of him as a wise and powerful businessman. They wanted to believe the myth. Everyday on the campaign trail he showed who he really was. Millions voted for him anyway. Now as President, voters and pundits are shocked. What, he is a huge shit stain unfit for office? Who knew? We can only hope the country survives.

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Response to extvbroadcaster (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:10 AM

10. I don't give a rat's ass HOW Trumpy got this way.

It doesn't matter. He is who he is, and his authority MUST be taken away from him. Otherwise, he'll continue to wreak havoc every day he's in office. And it will get worse, not better.

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Response to extvbroadcaster (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:23 AM

13. All that you've mentioned would literally drive a person insane.

So we're back to: is Trump nuts?

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Response to MrModerate (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 06:34 PM

30. The answer is Yes.

Last edited Wed Aug 16, 2017, 07:20 PM - Edit history (1)

He is "nuts" (mentally ill). Dangerously so. I'd love to see the hearings, but however powerful the case that he is ill, I don't think it will open the eyes of his adherents. Tragically, the symptoms of his illness -- denigration of those he sees as out-groups to puff up his overinflated, fragile, ego; his callous disregard for others; his grandiose tales of his fearsome power, omnipotence, and unequaled brilliance; the joy he takes in humiliating others -- are the things that a frighteningly high number of Americans see as "strength."

As he brings out the worst, and puffs up himself, he adherents appear to get a vicarious boost by association that's rewarding. My theory is that the blind, knee jerk, rejection of anything perceived as an attack on DT is born of self-protection. To recognize the awfulness of the things that make them "feel good" is a leap too many are simply incapable of taking.

To any who doubt he is diagnosable, I offer this: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141845222#post28

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:52 AM

5. This is an insult to those who are mentally ill.

Trump is pure evil and in full control of his mind. He has abused the power of his office. He needs to be impeached, not let off the hook by claiming mental incapacity.

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Response to BarbD (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 06:41 PM

32. Recognizing that Ted Bundy is a pychopath doesn't let him "off the hook."

And recognizing the DT is a diagnosable, dangerous, psychopathic narcissist, does not let him off the hook either.

Recognizing that DT falls into that subset of mental illness that is dangerous is not an insult to those who struggle with other forms of mental illness. Criminality/evil and some forms of mental illness are not inconsistent.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 09:55 AM

6. I wish Ds IN CONGRESS would spend time on raising the Federal Minimum wage. 7.25 is to low. MAKE Rs

vote no. Congress is where Fed minimum is raised. Keep bringing the vote as many times as it takes!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:01 AM

7. They're going to get a lot of heat for this, but it's about time!!!! He has a mental problem. nt

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:08 AM

9. Mental Health? Sociopathy has no remedy except criminal prosecution and incarceration. Look it up.

While the effort is laudable, the fact is that Trumpy has no conscience. He'll continue to abuse his authority until he has NO MORE AUTHORITY. That's the nature of his affliction. His authority MUST be taken from him. Having discussions about his viability as CiC/Prez only delays the inevitable. We really don't need a panel to discuss his fitness. There is no reason to debate. It's time to act.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 11:16 AM

17. +1

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:13 AM

11. Mixed feelings

Yes, encouraged that someone is looking at this, though it would be an excellent opportunity for bipartisanship and without that it will invite more disdain for Democrats.

Also, tired of the white terrorist always being called "mentally ill" while anyone else is just plain bad. He might be both, but mental illness does not cause badness. It's the bad in him that bothers me.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:24 AM

14. I LOVE it!

Let's get some expert, professional backing to substantiate the obvious: We're currently saddled with a mentally ill president.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 10:41 AM

16. how about they just read the record of the group that already discussed this

 

into the congressional record?
the panel has already convened. now act on it, congress.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 12:09 PM

18. wish Ds could get past this. Ds spent the entire campaign pointing out UNFIT-dangerous deplorable.

All that did was give Republican party free advertising of thei(R) fucking domestic-terrorist hate groups.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 12:36 PM

19. .....

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 12:57 PM

20. Things to look forward to in 2018/2019.

I doubt even 1 Repug will vote for that, they will do anything to stay in power, even putting up with an existential threat to the whole world from a demented person having the ability to destroy us at any whim that comes to his ignorant and belligerent mind. We have no hope, other than Mueller, prior to 2018. If we win the House, Impeachment will happen very quickly. There are certainly grounds for it!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 01:00 PM

21. So, implementing a Sed Festival like the Ancient Egyptians.

Cool.

At this point, I'm all for it.



"The ancient festival might, perhaps, have been instituted to replace a ritual of murdering a pharaoh who was unable to continue to rule effectively because of age or condition. Eventually, Sed festivals were jubilees celebrated after a ruler had held the throne for thirty years and then every three (or four in one case) years after that. They primarily were held to rejuvenate the pharaoh's strength and stamina while still sitting on the throne, celebrating the continued success of the pharaoh."



From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed_festival

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 01:04 PM

22. Yeah, but it's Democrats. Republicans are the only ones who can effect change.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:45 PM

23. Isn't a good portion of Republicans mentally

Ill? Have personality disorders?


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Response to Duppers (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 21, 2017, 05:19 AM

35. Voting for tRump, I'd say a fair number are.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:48 PM

24. Research indicates all conservatives are mentally ill.

It's pathological.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 04:52 PM

25. A Personality Disorder Is A Type Of Mental Illness

Someone with Narcissism and Sociopathic tendencies probably has a type of Personality Disorder. Check the DSM on this (the diagnostic guide for Psychiatry). If Trump has a Personality Disorder, he might be deemed unfit for office as per the 25TH Amendment. This is not to scapegoat people with Psychiatric issues. It is just that it is important that the President of the United States is mentally stable. If a panel of Psychiatrists finds that Trump is mentally ill with a Personality Disorder, that could be the basis for some attempt to remove him per the 25TH Amendment.

That said, the Republicans in the Congress might block this sort of move. In any case, I still think this is worth pursuing. Anything that harms Trump helps for 2018 and 2020. Even if a panel or commission does not remove Trump, there is political power and ammunition if a panel of Psych experts finds him to be unfit. This can be added to the arsenal of reasons to oppose Trump. It could help sway people to vote Trump out.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:35 PM

27. hate is not mental illness

let's not set this dangerous precedent for the rest of the country

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 06:40 PM

31. Waste of time

Even if some panel says he has this or that what does that have to do with anything if he is probably going to stay in office. I have mental illness, it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't turn you into a racist.

Whatever Trump's problems are he's been this way his whole life.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 16, 2017, 07:38 PM

34. I Disagree

I have a Bipolar Diagnosis. I have known a lot of good people with Psych Conditions. That is not the point. The point is that Trump is not fit to be President. In addition to being a Racist, he is also Incompetent. We need to use that against him. WE need to use every tool that we have to undermine him, including his lack of mental fitness.

Even if he is not impeached or removed under the 25th Amendment, an attempt to do either will undermine his Presidency and his re-election chances. The Russia Investigation has contributed to the paralysis of the Trump Regime. If we can mire Trump down in scandals and other forms of opposition, it impedes his ability to pass legislation and push his policies. It also impairs his re-election chances.

So I think that this is a legitimate angle of attack against Trump. He is not fit to be President.

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Response to Progressive2020 (Reply #34)

Mon Aug 21, 2017, 05:35 AM

36. Totally agree.



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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Aug 21, 2017, 01:41 PM

37. Kick for exposure!

If Dems in Congress can form an expert panel on Trump's mental health, without approval from Eddie Munster or other GOP leaders, I say, GO FOR IT!

However, impeachment is the only way to ever get the bastard out of the White House.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Aug 23, 2017, 08:53 PM

38. The point is to get headlines questioning his stability, not a diagnosis. Give the press

Red meat to report on, so we can frame the script.

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