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Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:25 PM

 

{Canadian} Governor General apologizes for saying Indigenous Peoples were immigrants

Source: CBC News

Posted: Jun 19, 2017 1:04 PM ET

In a ceremony honouring leadership on Indigenous issues at Rideau Hall, Gov. Gen. David Johnston has apologized for calling Indigenous Peoples immigrants to Canada.

Johnston was referring to his comment during an interview with CBC Radio's The House Saturday. "We're a country based on immigration, going right back to our, quote, Indigenous people, unquote, who were immigrants as well, 10, 12, 14,000 years ago," he said.

A firestorm of criticism on social media ensued as some said the comment revealed a deep-seated colonial mentality.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/governor-general-apologizes-indigenous-immigrants-1.4167348



America: Now Exporting Stupidity!

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Reply {Canadian} Governor General apologizes for saying Indigenous Peoples were immigrants (Original post)
Doug the Dem Jun 2017 OP
ExciteBike66 Jun 2017 #1
Retrograde Jun 2017 #4
yuiyoshida Jun 2017 #26
snooper2 Jun 2017 #2
Doug the Dem Jun 2017 #5
snooper2 Jun 2017 #6
luvtheGWN Jun 2017 #8
Igel Jun 2017 #27
0rganism Jun 2017 #22
msongs Jun 2017 #3
athena Jun 2017 #7
ExciteBike66 Jun 2017 #9
athena Jun 2017 #13
geek tragedy Jun 2017 #21
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2017 #11
athena Jun 2017 #15
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2017 #17
athena Jun 2017 #18
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2017 #19
LanternWaste Jun 2017 #16
Judi Lynn Jun 2017 #23
athena Jun 2017 #24
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2017 #10
Sunlei Jun 2017 #14
Sunlei Jun 2017 #12
geek tragedy Jun 2017 #20
paleotn Jun 2017 #25
IronLionZion Jun 2017 #28

Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:41 PM

1. I don't understand what is stupid about that.

How does it evince a "colonial mentality" to speak about the migration of peoples back in the prehistoric era?

It doesn't trivialize what was done to the "natives" who were here first.

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:50 PM

4. I'm scratching my head as well

All modern humans are the same species, originating in (probably) north-east Africa and spreading around the globe from there. They didn't just spontaneously arise in some places all on their own. Now there's disagreement on whether they arrived in North America 10,000, 20,000 or even 40,000 years ago, but ultimately they came from somewhere else.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 07:46 PM

26. Yes crossed the great land bridge between Asia and America...

Just look at the INUIT, they are ASIANS!

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:42 PM

2. I think this is outrage just be to outraged, everyone are immigrants

Just depends on how far back you want to go...

20K years should probably be the cut-off though

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:51 PM

5. No

 

In order to be an immigrant, one has to relocate to an ALREADY-ESTABLISHED society that is foreign. There was no society of any kind in this country or Canada before the Natives.

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Response to Doug the Dem (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:58 PM

6. So are you just throwing the Paleo-Indians under the bus?

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Response to Doug the Dem (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:06 PM

8. Perhaps the word we're looking for is "migrate".

I think it's been established (at least theoretically) that the Inuit, the Aleuts etc. migrated from Asia.
Our Governor-General is an educated and honourable man (previously the Head of McGill University). That he apologized for mis-speaking is admirable and totally expected of him.

(FYI he represents the Queen as Head of State in Canada -- a completely non-political position.)

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Response to Doug the Dem (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 07:51 PM

27. Before the Inuit moved in

... there were others.

Before the "Indigenous" people moved into southern Greenland there were Vikings. There, Vikings were first.

The Vikings immigrated.

The problem is one of semantics. Many people use the word to mean moving into an established area. It's a newer usage, it's not universally accepted. But some insist on being the Definers of Words for others. It's a way of claiming power, esp. for people who like Whorf-style linguistics and who think that words constrain thinking.

For others, though, the word required to be used by all is "migrants". Even though they are moving into established areas. Usage varies, and many can't handle it or view non-compliance with suspicion.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 03:56 PM

22. i'm not from here, i just live here



We can't help it
We just keep moving
It's been that way since long ago
Since the Stone Age, chasing the great herds
We mostly go where we have to go

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:43 PM

3. PC police strike again. everybody is an immigrant to somewhere nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:02 PM

7. Using the expression "PC police" is tantamount joining forces with right-wing extremists.

The whole idea behind the term "politically correct" is that there is something wrong with it and that people should be allowed to say whatever they want without worrying about whether their words hurt other people's feelings. This "philosophy" of looking down on sensitivity and empathy is what gave us Trump. Please think twice before allowing right-wing extremists to define the terms of the discussion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with compassion and empathy. Those feelings are what make us human. They are the basis for our civilization and the reason we live in societies rather than on our own in the wild.

As far as this thread is concerned, the fact that Americans are so puzzled as to what is wrong with the statement the Governor General made is a great demonstration of the difference between Canada and the United States. Canadians can recognize that what the Governor General said was insensitive. Given what the settlers did to the indigenous peoples, calling them "immigrants" is the height of insensitivity. Of course, over here, in the land of those who take pride in not caring about anyone else's feelings, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the Governor General said, and of course he should not apologize! Indeed, it's the indigenous peoples who should apologize and feel ashamed for being so human and sensitive!

Seeing these kinds of posts on DU makes me despair of ever seeing this country move beyond Trump and the right-wing sickness that ails it.

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Response to athena (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:10 PM

9. Please explain

"Given what the settlers did to the indigenous peoples, calling them "immigrants" is the height of insensitivity."

How is it "insensitive"? I want to be more like my Canadian brothers and sisters and understand this.

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:37 PM

13. To begin with

Last edited Mon Jun 19, 2017, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)

calling the first people who moved into a land "immigrants" who are equivalent to those who moved in later and killed off the majority of its inhabitants, is an amazingly hypocritical way of ignoring the horror of what the latter did. The indigenous peoples were the first to move into Canada about 15,000 years ago. The first Europeans settled in Canada in 1605. So by calling the First Peoples "immigrants", one is at best neglecting 14,000 years of history. It's kind of like moving into someone's house, killing them, and then telling the police that the owners didn't belong in that house either because they hadn't been born in it.

Beyond that, what the Europeans, and later Canadians, did to the First Peoples was beyond horrific. See:
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/12/canadas-first-nations-push-back-against-centuries-murder-abuse-and-neglect#

ETA: I am not saying that the Governor General intended to be hypocritical or hurtful. He deserves credit for recognizing that his words could cause offense and apologizing.

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Response to athena (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 02:50 PM

21. So, if he had called them migrants instead of immigrants, no problem right? nt

 

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Response to athena (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:35 PM

11. Except most of these "un-PC" things don't hurt anyone's feelings

It is just kabuki theater in which feigning offense is considered a suitable alternative to having an actual argument.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:43 PM

15. Please provide examples

of "un-PC" things that don't hurt anyone's feelings. And please explain why you are the one who gets to judge whether someone else's feelings are truly hurt.

There is absolutely zero reason for insensitivity. You do not lose anything by being sensitive and considerate. Even if it were, as you so offensively and egotistically call it, "kabuki theater", there is still nothing one loses by being polite and considerate. An apology does not cost anything but can give someone back their dignity.

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Response to athena (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:55 PM

17. There is never a reason for insensitivity or being offensive for shock value

But there is never a reason to take offense when none was conceivably intended, such as say Halloween costumes that aren't either SS officers or Klansmen.

Awkwardly inclusionary bureaucrat speak is never intended to be insensitive or offensive, it is intended to be the absolute opposite, those who nitpick at it are ridiculous.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 02:13 PM

18. Thank you for making my point.

First, you make a claim about "most" politically incorrect statements, and when asked to provide examples, refer to Halloween costumes. Who is talking about Halloween costumes? And who are you to tell someone who finds a specific Halloween costume offensive that their feelings don't matter and that they have no reason to take offense? What makes you so special that you get to tell others what their feelings should be?

What your post demonstrates, above all, is a refusal to listen to what others have to say. Who am I to tell you that I personally appreciate language that includes me and feel left out by language that excludes me, when you think you know better and call anyone who happens to disagree with you "ridiculous"?

Welcome to ignore. Since you're not interested in anyone's opinion but your own, I will no longer waste my time expressing my opinion to you. Enjoy your president. Because whatever he may be, he is not "politically correct", "sensitive", or "considerate".

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Response to athena (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 02:23 PM

19. You're being ridiculous, practically nobody is proud of insensitivity

Intent matters, I use Halloween costumes as an example because they're probably the most notable example of offense being taken (contrived or otherwise) where none was conceivably intended.

Was the intent of the Queen's Little Helper to offend First Nations people? Obviously not!

None the less, I will wear my standing on your ignore list as a badge of honor...

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:48 PM

16. Wonderful allegation.

"Except most of these "un-PC" things don't hurt anyone's feelings..."

Wonderful allegation. Sounds like a bumper-sticker both in breadth and depth of substance to use in place of an actual argument...








Six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each dramatically lacking any objective evidence to support them.

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Response to athena (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 05:04 PM

23. Thank you, athena. I've never heard that "they were immigrants, too" gibberish used

by anyone other than racists, trying to exonerate barbaric, evil behavior employed by the racists trying to destroy an entire continent-wide population of people already living where their ancient ancestors had lived for thousands of years, bypassing
peaceful relationship with them altogether, choosing to murder them first, then steal their land.

Don't ever imagine you are disrespected by the people who don't speak out. Sometimes they just don't feel they want to deal with a "discussion" from right-wingers in the wrong place, posing as civilized people.

Idle hands, idle minds, devil's playthings, etc.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 06:39 PM

24. Thank you for your words, Judi Lynn.

They are deeply appreciated.

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:29 PM

10. I have done a lot of work with First Nations in Canada and Native Americans

They don't care what white academics and politicians have to say about their identity or history, they are completely 100% indifferent.

The only colonialism they're worried about in the asinine Victorian era Indian Agent bureaucracy that persists on both sides of the border that was anachronistic when it was imposed in the first place.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:39 PM

14. Thank you for your voice of reason. I wish our government could clone more of you!

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:36 PM

12. "firestorm of criticism on social media" "firestorm" of social media muppits.

Its a lot of fun to tease them

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 02:49 PM

20. so people are freaking out because he called the ancestors immigrants instead of migrants? nt

 

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 07:33 PM

25. Probably not the smartest thing to say, but.....

if you want to get technical about it, we're all immigrants, unless we're residing in Africa. That's every human's home land. First Nations deserve our respect, however, because they were in the western hemisphere first.

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Response to Doug the Dem (Original post)

Mon Jun 19, 2017, 08:28 PM

28. Based in truth but still a stupid thing to say

Because the belief that non-whites are perpetual foreigners has its roots in white supremacy.

What's even more idiotic are the ones who think I'm stealing jobs away from Americans even though I was born here.

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