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Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:01 AM

Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy

Source: The Guardian


Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy

Vermont senator hails the successes of the progressive agenda but says establishment Democrats are standing in the way of further gains

Adam Gabbatt in Chicago

Sunday 11 June 2017 04.14 BST Last modified on Sunday 11 June 2017 09.52 BST

Bernie Sanders has criticised the Democratic party’s current direction as “an absolute failure” in a speech at the People’s Summit in Chicago. Speaking to a crowd of 4,000 activists, Sanders hailed the “enormous progress in advancing the progressive agenda”, saying the increasing House and Senate support for a $15 minimum wage and the opposition to the Trans-Pacific partnership showed the success of the movement.

But the Vermont senator said that establishment Democrats were standing in the way of further progress. “The current model and the current strategy of the Democratic party is an absolute failure,” Sanders said. “The Democratic party needs fundamental change. What it needs is to open up its doors to working people, and young people, and older people who are prepared to fight for social and economic justice. “The Democratic party must understand what side it is on. And that cannot be the side of Wall Street, or the fossil fuel industry, or the drug companies.”

Sanders’s speech was rapturously received at the People’s Summit, a gathering of some of the most influential progressive activists and organizations in the country. There had been an urgency to the event on Friday and Saturday around building on the momentum of Sanders’s presidential campaign, with a focus on encouraging people from different backgrounds to run for office around the country. Against that backdrop, Sanders’s criticism of the Democratic party as out-of-touch and elitist appeared to ring true for activists at the summit, including those who are planning to run for office for the first time in the coming months.
(snip)


Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy



We'll see if this progressive enthusiasm translates to votes in non-presidential years.

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Reply Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy (Original post)
nitpicker Jun 2017 OP
JI7 Jun 2017 #1
DFW Jun 2017 #6
MBS Jun 2017 #39
appal_jack Jun 2017 #82
JI7 Jun 2017 #84
appal_jack Jun 2017 #86
JI7 Jun 2017 #88
Cha Jun 2017 #251
Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #91
Eliot Rosewater Jun 2017 #135
Progressive dog Jun 2017 #121
Doodley Jun 2017 #2
stevepal Jun 2017 #9
trueblue2007 Jun 2017 #13
NJCher Jun 2017 #27
Doodley Jun 2017 #134
onetexan Jun 2017 #195
Demit Jun 2017 #15
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #94
mhw Jun 2017 #113
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #218
bettyellen Jun 2017 #128
Demit Jun 2017 #141
Igel Jun 2017 #210
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #216
LanternWaste Jun 2017 #223
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #225
Me. Jun 2017 #235
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #232
Demit Jun 2017 #243
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #246
LanternWaste Jun 2017 #222
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #224
Cha Jun 2017 #252
QC Jun 2017 #261
Cha Jun 2017 #264
musette_sf Jun 2017 #270
Eliot Rosewater Jun 2017 #136
That Guy 888 Jun 2017 #228
Eliot Rosewater Jun 2017 #231
Me. Jun 2017 #233
obamanut2012 Jun 2017 #21
PotatoChip Jun 2017 #30
Dustlawyer Jun 2017 #37
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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:06 AM

1. it's republicans who are standing in the way of the minimum wage . and Obama was right about TPP

now China has all the power and the Trump trash is making private business deals with them.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #1)


Response to JI7 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:24 AM

39. I agree with you 1000% n/t

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Response to JI7 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:48 AM

82. Obama had his chance to shape the TPP into a truly progressive agreement, but failed.

 

Or maybe Obama did exactly what he intended: say that the TPP would protect US workers and the environment, while negotiating an agreement that would do anything but that (just like all the other trade agreements negotiated before then under Obama: S. Korea, etc.). Either way, the duplicity about the TPP helped fuel Trump's fake populism, which is a shame.

Regardless, why did the US trade negotiator under Obama not push for enforceable worker and environmental standards? Why have private courts open to investors, but closed to workers, unions, and environmental advocates? Obama was not right about the TPP, and his failure on this front, plus the choices made in pursuit of the TPP contributed to the Republican now in the White House.

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #82)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:51 AM

84. Obama supported the Paris accord. tpp means less power against China

And the trump trash making their private deals with them and people invesigating labor standards are disappeared in China.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #84)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:56 AM

86. We agree that Trump is trash & China labor standards are awful.

 

I just happen to disagree that joining the corporate race to the bottom is anything close to a solution. Unions and environmental advocates deserve a place at the table and a powerful role at the outset of trade negotiations. Trying to shortcut or circumvent this (as Obama did) will just result in further Democratic losses at the ballot box.

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #86)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:58 AM

88. lol. people who voted for trump don't care for environmental standards

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #82)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:40 PM

251. President Obama was Absolutley right about tpp..

China is in charge now.

President Obama made Progress when he was in Office..



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Response to JI7 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:02 AM

91. Anything done in secret is no good...

 

Fast tracking the TTP, written in secret, and not allowing the people to know about it
proves it was bad for Americans.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #91)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:56 PM

135. OOps, what was I thinking, I better not respond to you at all.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:08 PM

121. That's the way I see it too

Trump is not a progressive, but he stands with Bernie against the TPP. The "establishment Democrats", like Gov. Cuomo of NY are actually fighting for a higher minimum wage.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:09 AM

2. If Sanders is so concerned, maybe he should join the party.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:38 AM

9. It's far more imiportant

 

that the Dems join Bernie. FAR MORE IMPORTANT!

The biggest problem right now for all progressives within and without the Dem Party is the voting machines and the voter suppression. People need to wake up. You can't have a democracy when you can't or don't verify the vote.

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:58 AM

13. he needs to stop critizing democrats once and for all.

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:58 AM

27. conflict makes us bigger

Suppressing conflict makes us small.

Kinda' like a certain "president" we now have.


Cher

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:44 PM

134. Agreed. He needs to focus on Trump and company.

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:45 PM

195. yup, guy needs to shut up already

if he has nothing good to say about the Dems he shouldn't be saying anything. He's demonstrating once again he's a sore & bitter loser.

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 06:27 AM

15. Did Bernie talk about the problem of vote suppression in his speech?

 

If so, the story didn't mention it.

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Response to Demit (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:11 AM

94. Has the Democratic Party done anything about voter suppression in the last 20 years?

 

GOP election fraud didn't start with Hillary Clinton, and won't end their. Our Party's semi-official policy has been to ignore it because acknowledging it might suppress voter turnout.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:46 AM

113. Actually they have tried and of course it was a priority of Hillary's campaign platform..

 

Along with ending Citizen's United.
And it wasn't just a stump speech. She had a complete policy plan ready to go. As well as a SCourt pick to help her do it.

Pity no one gave a shit then. But listen to the howling now.
Go figure.

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Response to mhw (Reply #113)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 02:31 AM

218. Like her 50 State Strategy?

 

I remember someone on here posting in a similar glowing style about Clinton's 50 State Strategy. I went to her website, and other then a page basically saying she had a 50 State Strategy (oddly enough it tests well out here in flyover country) there was no there there.
Nothing.

Pity no one gave a shit then. But listen to the howling now.
Go figure.


It seems more like the DNC didn't give a shit in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, or 2016. It seems like it only matters to some people now that it effects Hillary Clinton. Or maybe it's that it's Putin authorizing the election fraud instead of the GOP.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:22 PM

128. Yes they have- tons of court cases against Crosscheck, loads of voter registration....

 

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:07 PM

141. stevepal was talking about Bernie & what Bernie says the Democrats should be doing.

 

stevepal said that, instead of Bernie joining the Dems, the Dems should join Bernie! Then he (stevepal) segued into what he thought was the most important issue today, vote suppression. To me, that implies that Bernie's position on vote suppression is one of the reasons the Democratic Party should join Bernie.

Maybe stevepal knows for a fact that vote suppression is a very important issue to Bernie. It seems odd, then, that Bernie wouldn't mention it in a speech directed at 4,000 progressive activists. Maybe he forgot.

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Response to Demit (Reply #141)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:07 PM

210. Sounds like he's found his leader.

And he should follow his leader.

His leader is (I), used the party as a tool for his own purposes in the election last year after working with it because it was a useful tool. He has no loyalty to it.

So the poster should follow his leader, whom he obviously thinks we should emulate. BSUnderground, perhaps?

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Response to Igel (Reply #210)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 02:20 AM

216. If Bernie Sanders had run as an independent, Clinton supporters would be attacking him like Stein.

 

You know that's true. People on here still whine about Nader even though it was GOP caging and election fraud that lost Florida for Gore, but we're not supposed to talk about that.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #216)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:18 PM

223. I pretend concern and analysis is simply whining as well...

I pretend concern and analysis is simply whining as well... it allows us to frame both our narrative so much more effectively, and advertises our bias so much more accurately.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #223)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:37 PM

225. Congrats on finding something that works for YOU.

 

If Sanders had run as an independent, the same people complaining about Jill Stein would be complaining about Sanders. He didn't run as an independent after his primary run, despite the invitation from the Green Party. He campaigned for the Democratic candidate.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #216)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:57 PM

235. Of Course, He'd Be Running Against The Dem Candidate

Should they say nothing about a competitor?

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Response to Demit (Reply #141)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:09 PM

232. Voter suppression to me isn't a smug talking point for interparty warfare.

 

I live in Texas, the Democratic Party has been counting on the shift in demographics to flip Texas purple or (with a great campaigner like Obama) blue . The GOP knows this too. We use touch screen voting here.


How long will the GOP be able to stay in power in Texas with election fraud?

What has the Democratic Party done about election fraud?

When Gore won the 2000 election, despite voter purges and a ballot design deliberately to confuse anyone not voting for the Governor of Florida's brother, how did he end up losing the election?

When the Congressional Black Caucus tried to bring evidence of election fraud to the US Senate, what did the Democratic Party do? - This one I'll answer for you: they literally laughed in their faces.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #232)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:35 PM

243. You should start your own thread, instead of trying to change the subject on this one.

 

That way you can talk about what you want to talk about.

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Response to Demit (Reply #243)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:03 PM

246. Hijacking the thread was talking about Sanders joining the Democratic Party...

 

so that the party "leadership" can shut him up.

Other than Van Jones, why didn't the oh so progressive Democratic Party leadership send anyone to the People's Summit? Not a Presidential Election year would be my guess.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #94)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:16 PM

222. a wonderfully creative way to avoid answering a direct question with a direct answer.

I imagine asking what the Dems have done vis-a-vis voter suppression is a wonderfully creative way to avoid answering a direct question with a direct answer.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #222)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:22 PM

224. Ok answer the question, what has the Democratic Party done about voter suppression?

 

All of sudden it's something to be concerned about instead of something to be ignored, why is that?

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #94)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:42 PM

252. Does BS ever mention Voter Suppression?

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Response to Cha (Reply #252)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:28 PM

261. Yes.

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Response to QC (Reply #261)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:36 PM

264. He has no reason to Insult the Democratic Party who

is on the Front Lines Fighting against the Fascistrumps.

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Response to Cha (Reply #264)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:12 PM

270. + 1

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Response to Demit (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:02 PM

136. It is clear as can be what is going on, who is working with who and who has NO

interest in electing more democrats.

I cant talk about it here, but people better start and soon.

I could say lots of critical stuff about Bernie and Thom and Cenk and Ed but I dont know if I would be banned, even though they are not democrats I think I would be.

So i cant.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #136)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:53 PM

228. I know exactly what you mean. They have lost election after election and don't want to change

 

...anything substantial.


IDK what Bernie, Thom Cenk and Ed have to do with that, but unless you have excessive posts hidden, you won't be banned.



Mostly , but for what it's worth, I've had posts hidden, it's not that big a deal. Just keep in mind that Sanders supporters and people who feel the Democratic Party needs to change feel pretty much the same as you do.

Unfortunately.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #228)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:00 PM

231. Uh huh, yeah, you betcha!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #136)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:10 PM

233. Your Message Is Clear

+1

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:33 AM

21. Just stop

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:22 AM

37. If you think the status quo is ok go with the Democratic Party on this issue.

If you have a problem with the money in our politics obligating our representatives to represent Donors instead of the people then you get Bernie's message.

It is not like Democrats cannot be swayed by money and power like Republicans are, they are people too. Wall Street not being even investigated for the massive fraud surrounding he 08 crash happened on OUR watch! It is harder to reform a Party from the inside than the outside. Our Party has a lot of problems caused by entrenched money interests and we need to pressure it to reform. Recruiting new candidates is the pressure we need!

Way 2 Go Bernie!

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:00 AM

61. Bernie hasn't discussed voter supression

at all.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:04 PM

137. Gee, imagine that. I cant say more.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:40 PM

201. One of his biggest mistakes. In my view.

Along with not recognizing how race impacts everything, even his economic focus.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 06:24 PM

203. Wrong. Just search 'Senator Sanders voter suppression 2017'

 

Sorry that facts interrupt your narrative...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #203)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 03:04 PM

239. Facts..

 

it''s what's for dinner

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #203)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:51 PM

257. Wrong.. there's no talk at these "Insulting the Democratic

Party" gatherings about Voter Suppression.

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Response to Cha (Reply #257)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:16 PM

260. Don't let facts get into the way of 'your' beliefs...

 

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #260)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:33 PM

263. When BS insults the Democratic Party with "an absolute failure"

he never mentions Voter Suppression.

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Response to Cha (Reply #263)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:42 PM

265. Well, please provide Sanders and all other politicians with a list of words you require them to say.

 

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:26 PM

205. Well, except for here --



And here:



And here:



And then there's this:



And here he is with Rachel Maddow back in 2012:



And here's something:



And there's a lot more over several years, but yeah, other than all that, he's never said a word about voter suppression.

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Response to QC (Reply #205)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:20 PM

207. Oops. How awkward.





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Response to QC (Reply #215)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 03:05 PM

240. Oh snap...

 

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:39 AM

110. Join hin in what? This article doesn't even address what you say is the biggest problem

(and I happen to agree) -- voting machines and voting suppression.

How is "joining Bernie" going to solve that?

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:43 AM

112. Let Me Guess

A Bernie Bot

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Response to Me. (Reply #112)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:06 PM

140. well, if such a thing exists it is part of a much bigger group, i cant say who though

I will watch the democratic party be divided though and NOT take back either the house or senate as a result.

If I could talk about it here, I would. But I cant.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #140)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:10 PM

144. Quite Agree About It Being A Part Of A Much Bigger Group

I have seen a lot of hit and runs this last cycle

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Response to Me. (Reply #144)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:11 PM

146. I wont be here much longer, my insistence on supporting the DEMOCRATIC party

wont play well here when I also insist on reminding people what happened last year and that

IT

IS

HAPPENING

AGAIN

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #146)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:52 PM

185. +10000 nt

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #140)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:19 PM

192. I think there is a conversation being stifled here that needs to be heard. There is going to be

damage to the Democratic party and it will again be too late that it is recognized for what it is.

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:43 PM

133. Join a lawmaker who refuses to be a Democrat?

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:29 PM

152. So, when did Bernie become the lead on voting machines and voter suppression?

He seems to be leading more in saying that Democrats "lost" the election because people refused to vote for them, not that they couldn't.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #152)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:52 PM

266. Here he is discussing it with Rachel Maddow in 2012.

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Response to QC (Reply #266)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 07:52 AM

277. Four years ago... anything lately? (nt)

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Response to QC (Reply #278)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 08:27 AM

279. OK. Talking about it is one thing. Leading is another thing entirely

Especially since he didn't even mention it in the speech in the OP.

http://thedemocraticstrategist.org/2017/05/feingold-how-to-fight-voter-suppression/

Feingold, who has formed a new organization, LegitAction, an organization focused on restoring legitimacy to our democracy, notes further:

There rightfully exists a high threshold for any law that subjects states to the oversight of Washington. Jim Crow met that threshold, the Supreme Court decided in the 1960s. The onslaught of voter suppression in the past four years should also be recognized as the emergency that it is — especially as the state-level efforts have been coupled with an executive branch intent on doubling down on such suppression. This extraordinary set of circumstances meets the criteria justifying oversight. Protecting voting rights — the vehicle through which the power of the people is exercised — must take precedent over the convenience and sovereignty of the states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/25/dnc-focuses-voting-rights-fight-trumps-voter-fraud-commission/102141244/

The Democratic National Committee is launching a new voting commission to combat a recently announced Trump administration effort — to investigate voter fraud — which Democrats fear will lead to voter suppression in poor and minority communities.

The commission will document and report on “voter suppression tactics” and make recommendations for strengthening access to the polls for all Americans, according to a statement provided to USA TODAY.


http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/318241-former-dem-senate-candidate-launches-voting-rights-group

Jason Kander, the Missouri Democrat who narrowly lost a Senate bid last year, is jumping back into national politics with a new organization aimed at protecting voting rights.

The former Missouri secretary of state’s new group, "Let America Vote," aims to win “the public debate over voter suppression” as Democrats continue to coalesce around voting rights in the wake of calls by President Trump for an investigation into his claim, presented without evidence, that millions of illegal votes were cast in 2016.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #279)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 09:10 AM

282. Those are all worthy endeavors, but let's be honest about what's happening here.

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Response to QC (Reply #282)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 09:54 AM

283. Re-read my first response to you, it's about him being a 'leader' in the fight against voter

supression.

"He seems to be leading more in saying that Democrats "lost" the election because people refused to vote for them, not that they couldn't."

My response to your second reply was asking for more recent statements, which you gave.

But lets be honest here, those videos still didn't establish him as a "leader" in combatting voter suppression, because as I said - talking about it isn't "leading" an effort to do something about it. And yes, my statement above in quotes still stands.

Is that clearer?

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Response to stevepal (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:45 PM

244. agreed, about the last part anyway. nt

 

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Response to Doodley (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:40 AM

23. And help Dems win elections!

I think that when Dems run on a liberal left platform
they will start winning.

It's when they go all centrist and corporate that they
have problems.

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Response to ananda (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:07 PM

142. Uh huh, like that corp dem Hillary, right? You know the one I am talking about, right?

The candidate who would have FOUGHT against the russians and the sessions and the trumps and so on, remember her?

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Response to ananda (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:30 PM

153. Yeah, that platform that HRC ran on was SO centrist...

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Response to Doodley (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:42 AM

52. Yep

I have a problem with Bernie attacking the Dem Party when he isn't a member. Our country is not Vermont. Nationally we have a two party system. That's how it goes Bernie. We see you attack the Dems & then down the road you want folks to vote Dem. Get my meaning?

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Response to Doodley (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:24 AM

101. DON'T LET THIS DEVOLVE INTO THE BERNIE DEBATE AGAIN

We just got past three weeks of Bernie YES Bernie NO......

Argue the points of his statement please.... Not the labels.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:43 PM

227. + 1

Either join the party, or start your own, Sen Sanders.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:05 AM

28. Oh come now. Pure hyperbole.

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Response to KPN (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:16 AM

32. How dare I

respond to hyperbole with hyperbole.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:09 PM

143. I dont think you were doing hyperbole at all, if we know one thing from last year it is

there is a large effort to DIVIDE the democratic party.

I cant say more.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:18 AM

34. +1

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Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:43 AM

53. Wake up

Focus on trump and the repubs. I fear repub control.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #53)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:55 AM

59. Read the OP

And tell Sanders to focus on Trump. He is the one throwing bombs at the Democrats.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #59)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:10 AM

93. Bernie knows that winning requires more than just anti-Trumpism. nt

 

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #93)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:10 PM

145. Hillary didnt do anti trumpism only and if you think she did you were not paying attention

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #93)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:18 PM

149. But Bernie lost

 

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #149)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:35 PM

156. Yeah. I remember that, too. (nt)

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #93)


Response to appal_jack (Reply #93)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:43 PM

253. Does BS ever mention Voter Suppression?

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Response to Cha (Reply #253)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:28 PM

262. Yes.

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Response to Cha (Reply #253)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:44 AM

273. I believe that he has.

 

Whether Sanders has focused on voter suppression or not, it's an important issue that deserves a lot of focus.



-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #93)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 07:03 PM

259. Then what happened with Bob Quist, Heath Mello,

zephyr teachout, Russ Feingold, etc?

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Response to Cha (Reply #259)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:45 AM

274. They were failed candidacies. The larger point still stands. nt

 

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #274)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:54 AM

275. No it doesn't.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:10 AM

4. Hey, Bernie...

...c'mon and join the Democrats permanently - we'd love to have you!

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:19 AM

5. And Bernie is a Democrat? No?

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:23 AM

7. Yes, shame on Hillary, Obama, Schumer and Pelosi

It was despicable of them to declare their allegiance, and tie the Democratic Party's future to "Wall Street, or the fossil fuel industry, or the drug companies." Right.

I understand that the grumpy old man routine still plays to certain choirs, and that we should not lose sight of who our adversaries are. But in a time when we are in the opposition in all three branches of government, we need to close ranks rather than break up into smaller, weaker factions. We can better afford to do that when we run the place again (though we'll lose again if we do). Using the expression "absolute failure" in connection with the Democratic Party will bring a smile to more Republican faces than to ours.

*replacement for a post in the wrong place earlier in the thread

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Response to DFW (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:41 AM

11. +1! eom

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Response to DFW (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:26 PM

151. +1000 (nt)

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Response to DFW (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 02:42 PM

237. While we shouldn't "lose sight of who our adversaries are" there is a unity problem.

 

Your post and a few others seem to say: the 2016 primary is long over (it is) and lets unite, in respectful silence behind the leadership that has been losing elections for 20+ years (with a pitifully few exceptions).

If I can be just as ageist as your "grumpy old man routine" statement, take a look at the ages of our young and vibrant Democratic Party leadership compared to Senator Sanders:

Bernie Sanders age 75 years
Hillary Clinton age 69 years
Chuck Schumer age 66 years
Nancy Pelosi age 77 years

I'm pointing this out because much of our party leadership is "of an age" to have seen "hippy culture" bring down the Democratic Party before. They operate out of fear of McGovern, and Democratic primary voters electing someone unable to win a general election. They fear Reagan stomping them into the dirt. They fear a renewed and reinvigorated Newt Gingrich-type Gopper making America even more divided. In short: they fear.

Charles Manson is in jail. Most voters today wouldn't know what the Altamont Free Concert was, and Reagan's dead. Newt Gingrich is divisively referred to as "fat Elvis". The only way that this country can get more divided is if the GOP is allowed to start using paramilitaries on the street - something that some Republicans want.

We need the Democratic Party to not be frightened of fighting the GOP, change or the voters of the Democratic Party.

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Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #237)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:35 PM

250. Well, partly right and partly wrong

"We need the Democratic Party to not be frightened of fighting the GOP, change or the voters of the Democratic Party."

Agreed.

"Your post and a few others seem to say: the 2016 primary is long over (it is) and lets unite, in respectful silence behind the leadership that has been losing elections for 20+ years (with a pitifully few exceptions)."

Ridiculous.

I didn't say unite exclusively behind candidates who are eligible for Social Security. A friend of mine who also happened to be the most successful DNC chair in recent history said in 2009 he thought and hoped that serious future candidates for president should be around age 50. He only threw his support behind Hillary because no one with his wish-credentials stepped up. His wish still stands, and I am with him on this, despite my own looming grumpy old man status. What Howard accomplished was far from pitiful, the way I see it, and his accomplishments were sweeping. He didn't lose much or often.

Nor did I say unite in "respectful (or any other)" silence. And just WHAT leadership did I specify to unite behind? Please remind me? I DID say that we need to unite, and Sanders is being divisive. To his credit, he makes no pretense of being anything else. But he does our cause no favors with this tack at this point. IN 2009, Howard said we need new blood, and I agree. But new or old, NOT Republican-style nose-in-the-air, my way or the highway tactics. They get away with it because they have a media arm that keeps 40% of the voters of the country in a political trance. We have no such thing--to OUR credit. But it means more work and demands more Fingerspitzengefühl than Bernie Sanders or his advocates seem willing to provide at this point.

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Response to DFW (Reply #250)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 05:57 AM

276. More right than wrong.

 

"I didn't say unite exclusively behind candidates who are eligible for Social Security."

My point about the age of the Democratic Leadership isn't their social security status. It was for two reasons: 1) They aren't that much younger - or only two years older in the case of Representative Pelosi than Senator Sanders; and 2) They are influenced by the times they lived in. To clarify what I mean by the second point, I'll use an excerpt from Alan Dershowitz threatening to leave the Democratic Party if Keith Ellison were elected Chairperson:

"
The DNC has a momentous choice this weekend. It can move the party in the direction of Jeremy Corbyn’s labor party in England, in the hope of attracting Jill Stein Green Party voters and millennials who stayed home. In doing so they would be giving up on any attempt to recapture the working class and rust-belt voters in the mid-western states that turned the Electoral College over to Donald Trump.

Jeremy Corbyn today could not get elected dog catcher in Great Britain. I do not want to see the Democratic Party relegated to permanent minority status as a hard-left fringe.

Remember what happened when the Democrats moved left by nominating George McGovern, Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis — all good men. The total combined electoral votes for these candidates would not have won a single election. There is no reason to think the country has moved so far to the left since those days that the Democrats can win by pushing even further in the direction of the hard left. The self-destructive election of Keith Ellison will be hard to undo for many years.

So, tomorrow, the Democrats must choose between electing Ellison or keeping centrist liberals...
"

Hindsight being 20/20 we have the benefit of seeing Labour under Corbin begin to reverse the massive electoral loses brought about by "New Labour" - the UK's adaptation of Third Way politics.



"And just WHAT leadership did I specify to unite behind? Please remind me?"

Ok: " Yes, shame on Hillary, Obama, Schumer and Pelosi

It was despicable of them to declare their allegiance, and tie the Democratic Party's future to "Wall Street, or the fossil fuel industry, or the drug companies." Right. "


If I completely misread your post title and first two sentences as sarcasm I apologize.


"But new or old, NOT Republican-style nose-in-the-air, my way or the highway tactics."

That's how a lot of the posts in this thread sound to me. It's also how much of the Democratic Party Leadership sounds to me. They say that the party platform doesn't matter, but fight tooth and nail to keep anti-fracking language out. They say who Chairs the DNC doesn't matter and then fought harder than I've seen them fight in a looong time to make sure Tom Perez became Chair. Since the 2016 election I've seen the Democratic Party Leadership fight the so-called "hard left" (a term some of them use) harder and more effectively than they've fought the GOP since I could vote. I wouldn't mind if they were winning so many elections that I was sick of winning - but it's been the opposite of that.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:30 AM

8. And yet

His progressive agenda didn't win him the nomination. Increasing support for his ideas?

Sounds like a bunch of failure incrementalism.

We need to pull together and I like a lot of Bernie's ideas but his scorched earth delivery is often off putting for a moderate guy like me.

I wish he would join the party. It would be better if he worked from within.

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Response to LSFL (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:40 AM

10. His support for Rob Quist

in MT's special election didn't help Rob at all. In fact, many GOPer ads were successful in tying Rob to "the Socialist" because of his support for Bernie in the Dem primaries and Bernie's arrival in MT on the last weekend only confirmed that. This was a factor in some voting for the Libertarian candidate instead.

I can't justify their actions in doing so - any more than I can justify anyone sane's voting FOR Gianforte. But the fact is that it happened.

I am ashamed of the outcome in my birth state, no matter how it happened.







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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:55 AM

12. No need for you to be ashamed

I live in KY. Most folks are reps. They have been terribly misguided. If you can strip away the propaganda, you can actually have a conversation with them.
It takes me about 2 years to break through.
/

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Response to LSFL (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:53 AM

58. The majority of MT Republicans

I knew in my youth were decent people. I attribute much of that to the fact that they - or close members of their families - were either recent immigrants to the US, or had either experienced the Great Depression or fought in the horror that WWII was or both. I also attribute that to the fact that rail transportation still linked this country to an extent difficult to imagine today.

In my little rural town of 1000+ people, we had many cultures, albeit Western European for the most part, five religions (Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic, Mormon and Baptist) and even more bars. (!) Even there, we looked outward towards the bigger picture and we believed in a national identity even though we were also proud Montanans who were committed to our close-knit communities. That was true of the majority of members of both parties. I saw this begin to change inexorably in the 1970s, replaced with "me-ism" in the 1980s, only to become the full-blown GOPer madness we have today.

Since the end of WWII, we have had no profoundly similar shared national experiences to bring us ALL together, except briefly perhaps, for 9-11. With rail and bus transportation - little of it public - less available to the working class, people have tended to travel - when they do at all - in automobiles where they are alone or with close family members or friends and are subjected to a barrage of RW hate radio. They have tended to isolate themselves into parochial enclaves, dependent on religious teachings which have been in too many cases radical RW evangelical. This has all exacerbated racial, social and economic divisions so that some regions of the US truly resemble "developing nations" and let stereotypes instead of actual individuals guide their reactions to the world.

In so many ways, the US has gone backwards while the rest of the world - including many "developing nations" - has moved forward. I mourn this profoundly and I fear that what happened in November 2016 could be the beginning of the end of our great experiment. I cannot forgive ANYONE who actively voted for Trump or who enabled this situation.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong about this being the end. But I am not optimistic.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 06:15 AM

14. The problem is the insane cost of financing national campaigns. Big money is

 

sought, as big money is needed.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:47 AM

55. Big money didn't help Hillary It might have worked against her.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #55)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:07 AM

64. It certainly helped Bernie.

The press wouldn't be publishing his every word now if he hadn't succeeded in raising and spending more than any candidate in history.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #64)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:29 AM

66. Must have been his Wallstreet Speechs, and $30,000 fund raisers

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #69)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:39 AM

78. Interesting excerpt from one of your articles:

On Thursday, Sanders won the support of Communications Workers of America, another major labor union. At an event announcing the endorsement, a similar tension was on display. Sanders denounced big money in politics, but CWA president Chris Shelton indicated the union is likely to use its super PAC to support his campaign. “We will respect Bernie’s wishes, but we will use all legal and possible resources to get him elected,” Candice Johnson, a spokesperson for the union said. “We do have a super PAC, but it’s a super PAC of a union of 700,000 working people, not a couple of billionaires. That’s a big difference.”

Sanders, for his part, has forcefully and repeatedly insisted that he does not have—or want—a super PAC. His campaign has been explicit as well. Earlier this month, after the Associated Press reported that an Oakland-based progressive super PAC plans to spend money in support of Sanders, the campaign emailed supporters with the message: “we don’t want this super PAC’s help.” The campaign has also sent a cease and desist letter to another pro-Sanders super PAC, alleging a violation of federal law


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/bernie-sanders-super-pac/420930/

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:01 PM

118. Only it isn't entirely true

as the Time article about the Alaska makes clear.

Making an issue of policy and legal reform about supposed personal virtue is problematic. Firstly, few of us are as virtuous as we claim. Secondly, the issue is about policy and law, not that one or two politicians pretend to be superior to the rest. Super Pacs can and do spend unlimited amounts of money. It is that spending that is far more revealing than statements by politicians. They spend regardless of what a politician might say, and the words don't lesson the impact of money on the political system.

I myself support legal reform, which is why I voted Democrat in the general election. Now that Trump is president and making appointments to SCOTUS, that has been set back at least a generation. Bernie, for his part, appears to have abandoned legal reform of the campaign finance system and instead talks about how all candidates should raise money like he did, which is of course impossible since few manage his level of celebrity or wall-to-wall media coverage. It also ignores the far greater influence of money in politics at the local, congressional, and legislative level, where candidates are not celebrities. We now see that among too many self-described progressive voters, the issue of systemic reform has been abandoned in favor of talking points against Democrats and the Democratic Party, with little attention to affecting a legal change of the system.

That is but one of the problems that arise from an approach to politics as about personalities rather than issues.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #66)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:24 PM

130. I know who you're hinting about, and neither of those assisted his/her campaign.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #66)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:37 PM

157. How would we know?

He seems rather reluctant to release his tax returns.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #64)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:57 AM

87. Maybe we should look closer at his fundraising methods

Bringing in that sort of money while attacking big money interests is actually pretty impressive when I think about it .

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #87)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:01 PM

167. Impressive, maybe, but certainly inconsistent with "the message".

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 06:37 AM

17. Broken record alert...why not stick with bashing the repug party for a change? Duh!

Last edited Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:59 PM - Edit history (1)

What is with him?

Keep splintering the Dems and we lose to the repugs next year again.

Didn't he learn anything from 2016?

The embarrassment that is trump is making a sham of the presidency and the repugs are putting up with it so they can take away health care and give the rich a trillion dollar tax cut and Sanders, to his credit, did blast trump and the repugs at the Peoples' Summit but why the continual bad mouthing of his allies instead of just the actual villians standing right in front of everyone's eyes?

Guess it plays in Peoria. Anything for a standing O at a progressive rally, right?

2018 is coming up and Sanders is still pulling this "blast the Democrats" crap.

WTF?

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:46 AM

25. +1

FWIW Peoria is blue and voted for Hillary

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:16 AM

33. +1

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:26 AM

40. +1 n/t

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:58 AM

60. + a million or so! eom

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:07 PM

120. Thank God He Isn't Trying To Help Ossoff

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Response to Me. (Reply #120)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:58 PM

230. + 1

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Response to Me. (Reply #120)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 08:28 AM

280. Yes, I guess Ossoff can be grateful after all that he got damned with faint praise. (nt)

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:11 AM

18. I happen to think that turning our back on the largest consumer market (Asia) was very foolish.

 

China will corner the Asian market while we build our fences. Sander's assumes that he is right about his positions. I happen to think he assumes too much.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:28 AM

20. What are you saying?

 

Are you saying that Democrats should have supported the TPP? The majority of the TPP wasn't even about trade. Are you saying that corporations should decide disputes in tribunals instead of the courts?

Donald Trump came out strongly against the TPP and because he did he got a lot of union and working class votes.

Stop talking about Sanders v Hillary, talk about issues. The TPP was a big giveaway to corporate America, dam. If we are now talking about supporting it, I'm out of the Democratic party.

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Response to watoos (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:34 AM

22. I never mentioned Hillary. This thread is about Sander's and his comments.

 

Obama was right to pivot to Asia and away from the Middle East. Trade was the main reason for that shift. The growing Asia consumer market will make our domestic consumer market pale in comparison. People like Sander's and Trump fight the fact that digitalization has shrunk the world. Our workers will pay a heavy cost for this flat earth approach to trade.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:13 AM

29. Our workers are paying a heavy price already regardless.

Globalization theory seems to be going the way of trickle-down for the majority of workers thus far. Show the reverse and maybe we'll all get on board, but thus far it looks to me like economic theory that hasn't exactly been successful to date.

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Response to KPN (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:52 AM

57. American workers are exponentially more affluent than most around the world

but that is about to change.

No one here gives a shit about globalization. If they did, we wouldn't see continually comments about how the fifties to seventies were so much better, when that was a period when the US dominated global trade enforced through military empire and regime change. The concern is not globalization or neoliberalism but the decline of American empire. That is made clear by its timing. The days we see hearkened back to were when prosperity for the white, male-dominated bourgeoisie was made possible by US empire--a period when the US government overthrew democratically elected governments (eg. Chile, Guatemala, Iran, and countless more) and sanctioned genocide in order to secure natural resources .

It's a nationalist ideology that focuses elusively on the benefits to one class, gender and race in American society while ignoring the global atrocities and domestic inequality that made their prosperity possible.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #57)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:39 AM

79. All good points

but IMO one of the reasons the 50's were so much better for the American worker is because they got a much larger share of the profits their work produced. The wage gap has grown exponentially since then. I understand automation has taken jobs but many companies are making record profits and that increase in earnings has been shifted more and more to the top and to investors. I find it interesting that the very ones who have benefited the most from this shift are the same ones who are saying the problem is overseas competition. Makes you wonder, no?

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Response to watoos (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:40 AM

50. Actually, we are already witnessing the decline in export possibilities because of turning away from

it. And China has been strengthened economically. The jobs were already in Asia. TPP opened markets for American exporters.

I fell for the rhetoric about TPP at the time, and I feel stupid as a result. I let myself get played by people who knew absolutely nothing about the terms of the agreement and were fighting a decades old battle against NAFTA.

Countries are now forming unilateral trade deals with China, without environmental and labor protections. The defeat of TPP is a massive boon for companies that don't want to pay decent wages or have any restrictions on child labor, etc... My sense is that will mark--along with Trump of course--a sharp decline in American trade and with it opportunity for the middle class.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #50)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:20 AM

65. I agree. The voters that Trump attracted ignored the calls since the 80's that a high school

 

education alone would no longer be enough to compete. These changes are rooted in historical context. When the Industrial Age began, people moved to the cities in order to benefit. There was just as much opposition to that shift back then. Now, the Industrial Age has come to an end. Today's model requires less dependence on companies and more reliance on entrepreneurial skills. This will be a difficult change in mindset for a workforce that hasn't been entrepreneurial for decades but offers a world market as reward for such skills. A knowledge of American history makes the opposition to the digital world very predictable IMO.

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Response to watoos (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:05 PM

138. I'd wager that tRump was against the TPP because Obama was for it.

Not that you're not saying this but just brought to my mind that his opposition to the TPP isn't because of any real concern for workers or human rights or the environment or even economic stability. tRump has already proven he does not care about any of those things by his actions since the day he stole the office. He's strictly anti-Obama, anti-Democratic... anything to rile up the angst of the typical repub.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:00 PM

166. + a bunch. Treating foreign workers like scabs was wrong. Some of the TPP rhetoric hurt Clinton too.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:21 AM

19. Keep whistling past the graveyard folks

 

Open your eyes, Donald Trump and the Republican party just took a big chunk of our base away from us, working people, union people. Ignore that fact at our own peril.

When Tom Perez won over Keith Ellison I will never give another dime to the DNC. I will give directly to the candidates.

Everything that Bernie said I agree with 100%. My dad told me 55 years ago that the Democratic party was for the poor people and the Republican party was for the rich people. That simple statement was the backbone of the Democratic party. When a sports team is struggling they go back to the basics. I think we need to go back to the basics.

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Response to watoos (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:40 AM

24. AMEN.

You don't have to be a Dem to see the gaping holes in our strategy any more than you have to be Republican to see they are a crowd of thugs.

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Response to crim son (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:31 AM

45. Because the winning strategy is to tell voters that the Democratic Party is worthless

and hopelessly corrupt. It's a wining strategy alright, but not for the Democrats or progressives.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #45)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:01 AM

71. Did you listen to all of Bernie's speech?

 

Did you listen to him laying into Trump, flat out lambasting him?
It's not a winning strategy when Democrats go on TV saying, oh we're not there yet for impeachment, that sickens my stomach. Republicans scream lock her up and Democrats say, oh we're not there yet.

They should be saying, impeachment he//, lock him up. When they say, the president can't be convicted of a crime, bring up his conflicts of interest, his violations of the emoluments clause, his cabinet committing perjury, his cabinet lying on their security clearance forms.

The Republican party is full of Bernie Sanders, Maxine Waters, Al Greens and Kristan Gillibrands, we need more of them.

Lock him up

I read the bumper sticker on a pickup in front of me a half hour ago, it said, Trump 2016, stop the bs. Trump is nothing but bs but the propaganda worked.

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Response to watoos (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:27 AM

103. the article is about his comments on Democrats

that is what I am responding to. There have been dozens and dozens of articles like this because he gives the media lots of attacks on Democratic the party to talk about. No other politician outside the GOP provides these sort of headlines for the media. If he didn't want remarks like this covered, he would stop making them, but of course that's not the case. One doesn't generate dozens of headlines like this by accident.

Maxine Waters and Kristen Gilibrand are not Republicans. If you choose to call Bernie a Republican, that's your affair, but leave those women out of it.






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Response to watoos (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:36 AM

107. bernie isn't calling for impeachment either . maxine waters is

But not bernie

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Response to JI7 (Reply #107)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:54 AM

115. True. Wonder why he only bad mouths the strongest Dems ?

 

He wants to weaken the best fighters for us we could ever have, like Maxine Waters,?
Yet not a peep about impeaching Trump for his many impeachable offenses.

Cha ching $$$.
Cash in while the opportunity is there. That's all I can get out of it.
I really don't know why anyone goes the direction he does other than $$.
Oh well. I could be wrong ..


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Response to watoos (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:16 PM

125. Bernie has insisted Democrats not "politicize" the Russia issue

because, he says, there might not be collusion after all.


As J17 noted, he is not like Maxine Waters in regard to Trump or the Kremlin interference.

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Response to watoos (Reply #71)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:14 PM

234. These 3 Are Dems

Maxine Waters, Al Greens and Kristan Gillibrand

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Response to watoos (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:56 AM

26. We've lost the house the senate the supreme court

and 33 of the 50 states. Anyone who thinks we arent doing something wrong is deluding themselves.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:28 AM

43. And Bernie is batting zero

Not a single candidate he has endorsed or campaigned for has won office. The Democratic Party has problems to be sure, but Bernie has done far worse than the Democratic Party generally. Everyone he criticizes has done far better than himself and his chosen candidates.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:38 AM

49. And that is the bottom fucking line right there.

 

He has been a miserable failure overall for the Dems.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:20 PM

177. Watch the Virginia gov. primary Tuesday

And the fall election. One of the candidates featured Bernie in his ads (also Warren and Obama). Will he wait n the nomination?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:10 PM

190. and the reasons for that are fairly complicated, and not surprising. Its not like it isn't an uphill

 


battle to fight as the reform candidate who isn't going to take major donations. That takes a huge movement, and these small isolated races are hopefully the start of something like that. Of course the money tends to win, that's why everybody gravitates towards it, regardless of party. But the point is bucking that trend and giving voters an alternative. Once that message gets louder, maybe at one point we can get to where Americans expect their candidates not to be beholden to big donors.

I understand disagreeing with Sanders and if you do, finding his criticisms of the DNC distasteful, but at least be fair about the challenges that these kind of campaigns can be expected to face. Sanders also didn't win, which was also no surprise, but he had unprecedented success as a candidate who employed a small donor model, and he put these issues back on the map. Now he has huge visibility to talk about money in politics and to promote people who are making that their #1 fight. And of course, it is not the DNC's #1 fight, and you may think that wise, and of course Sanders is a thorn in the side of the DNC, so there is potentially a kiss of death element to Sanders endorsing a candidate, given that there is no interest by the party in giving the Sanders brand any wins, to say nothing of putting its energy behind candidates with these priorities.

Again, none of that has anything to do with who is right and who is wrong. It is the political reality that candidates who want to change the system are going to be either ignored as much as possible, or when that fails, fought as hard as possible by the system. Nor is that conspiratorial to say that the DNC too, would help to scuttle these candidates if possible(usually in the primary phase), because they don't believe in the message, and they think it is damaging, as you do, to the party and its goals as a whole. So why would they put everything they had into helping these candidates succeed? THAT would defy reason. So yes, outsider candidates, even in this climate, are going to have a rough time of it. They don't have many friends with money, nor the full support of any party machinery.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:13 PM

191. The Democrats didn't "lose" the Supreme Court.

President Obama and his nominee had a seat stolen from them by the republican Senate, who refuse to give Merrick Garland a hearing. Never mind that the Supreme Court is SUPPOSED TO BE a non-political body, neither Democrat nor republican.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #191)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:32 PM

208. Whatever. The party is losing a lot. Let's not change. It

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Response to watoos (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:59 PM

258. That's a Myth.. Hillary won the Working People.

"Its time to bust the myth: Most Trump voters were not working class."

emulatorloo https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029165140

Perpetuated by those with an agenda

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:15 AM

31. "it needs to open up its doors to working people, and young people, and older people

who are prepared to fight for social and economic justice." So Democrats are the non-working middle-aged who don't fight for social and economic justice? What ... oh never mind. Whatever.

"Sander's speech was rapturously received" ... *snicker*

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Response to betsuni (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:20 AM

36. Thirty five years in DC

Yet nothing is his fault at all. Why should he be expected to accomplish anything for the citizens of America? His job is to point fingers a the people who do and talk about how worthless they are.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:01 PM

116. Really. Where's he been for the last ++++ years?

 

Easy answer..Republicans have always represented the money & big business side of society.
Democrats have ALWAYS represented "we the people".

That statement you quoted is a slap in the face to every Dem from the Ted Kennedys to the Maxine's & Cummings' and everyone in between.

Where's he been?
That is quite the insult.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:40 PM

158. Funny how I've been part of those demographics all my

political life as a Democrat.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:22 AM

38. +1

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Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:26 AM

41. +1

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Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:27 AM

42. "careless divisiveness"

spot on.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:08 AM

92. Sanders wrote a book and received $800,000 advance. Hardly netted himself 'million$'

 

No divisiveness - Sanders was fighting for the people, the 99%.

Constructive criticism of the Dem party is a good and needed thing.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:55 PM

186. +1

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #44)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:33 AM

47. and you voted for him

Didn't you? A number of people who previously supported him seem to have grown tired of his rhetoric.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #47)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:37 AM

48. Yes I did

A number of Bernie Bros do not begin to understand that Putin and company
used Bernie to help peal away votes from Hillary in the general election.

Bernie's act has gotten really old.

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Response to Botany (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:48 AM

81. Here:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrDenaGrayson/status/873705051017105408

Dr. Dena Grayson nails it.
Its was Russia & the DNC & Hillary's valued voter data was the real prize.

Who else reached in & grabbed a big handful for himself?
Yup.


I'll get back to this later..back to the family cookout...

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Response to mhw (Reply #81)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:12 AM

95. Sanders did not grab DNC voter data...

 

Fake news...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #95)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:46 PM

209. With his own hands? No. But one of his workers did, and that's a fact. nt

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Response to Post removed (Reply #44)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:50 AM

56. + a million.

 


Here ya go:

Yup btw, Tad Devine has his own past ties to Russia & that business will also make its way to the headlines at some point. It's drawn the curiosity of some so we'll see where it all leads eventually.

As for the DNC hack,:
Voter data stolen from the DNC, for instance, was used to not only target those names with the Russian smear campaign against HRC, the lists were also then used to wipe those names from voter roles in key states.

To do real damage to HRC & diminish her strength, they needed her voter lists.

Russia, wikileaks & others we are now finding out knew the value of that data as key to the mission of fracturing the Dem Party.
That is why vote tallies confounded all other prior data in certain States. Like Michigan.

As for BSanders, haven't heard a peep as to the actual reason the Dems & HRC are not sitting in the WH.

Its not her & its not the Party.



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Response to mhw (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:42 AM

68. And it took the republicans to weaponize the stolen data too.

n/t

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Response to mhw (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:15 AM

96. Are you blaming Sanders for Clinton's loss????

 

Statesmen follow the 'buck stops here' principle.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #96)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:45 PM

162. At least a big contributor as spoilers always are.

 

This one was particularly divisive and destructive.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #162)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:39 PM

180. Blaming others is not a good thing...

 

Again, 'the buck stops here' is the operative phrase.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #180)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:11 PM

211. First and foremost: Hillary won by 3,000,000 votes over Trump. She WON. Despite Putin, Comey, ...

...hacks, the GOP, voter suppression, and gerrymandering. Berniebros played their little part. Sorry for their egos, but it was a little part -- littler than Putin's trolls and bots, littler than voter suppression.

Something like 66,000,000 people voted for Hillary Clinton, despite all that -- and the media and various pundits are still bellyaching about the losers who voted for Trump.

Seeing as how Trump is sitting in the Oval Office destroying our democracy, don't you think it is worthwhile analyzing just how and why that happened? Who better than Hillary -- a woman possessed of a strong mind, rational, calm, passionate, analytical?

Instead what we get are various permutations of STFU, of which "Statesmen say the buck stops here" is only the latest version.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #46)


Response to Post removed (Reply #63)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:37 AM

108. Your accusations are unfounded...

 

Accusing Sanders (he's) of stealing voter data and 'holding on to it' is
impossible for a statesman like Sanders or his campaign executive staff.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #46)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:16 AM

97. Are you blaming Sanders for the DNC hack?

 

Perty low accusation there...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #97)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:32 AM

105. Did i say that? NO. Did you assume that's what I said?

 

Second post of mine you've attacked by assumption.

Off to the ignore list in that case.
Bye

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #97)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:20 PM

126. Is that why he had to fire one of his staffers over it?

 

In regards to snooping through (better know as hacking) Hillary's campaign model data. This has been out there for a while now.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #126)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:39 PM

132. Sanders or his campaign did not take any DNC-Clinton data...

 

He did not need data as he had his own...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #132)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:34 PM

155. 25 searches under 4 accounts and the data saved to Sanders campaign account.

 

He "apologized" and fired one of the staffers.

Let's not try to re-write history here, thanks.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #155)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:37 PM

179. So says the DNC...

 

Says it all...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #179)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:47 PM

182. You mean the DNC that has enabled Sanders for the past 25 years?

 

Sorry that the truth doesn't fit your narrative.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #182)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:48 PM

184. Your post makes no sense...

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #126)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:21 PM

213. Bernie asked the DNC to recommend an IT guy that knew Vote Builder


The DNC recommended him. We know the DNC was working against Bernie from the email leak.

He also had a past Hillary connection. Nothing to see here. Move along.

And didn't Hillary just throw that same database under the bus?

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Response to Post removed (Reply #46)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:20 PM

127. Excdllent Points

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Response to Post removed (Reply #46)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:42 PM

160. And then sued the DNC.

Good times.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #160)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:43 PM

161. Indeed. nt

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #161)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:07 PM

169. The irony is that Democratic measures to "open up its doors" benefited his campaign.

In California for example he got a lot of support from first time motor-voters who didn't know much about politics, but had been automatically registered at the DMV -- thanks to recent legislation fought for by Democrats. It would be nice if he acknowledged that legislation instead of giving the impression it's his idea.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #169)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:24 PM

170. Democratic party favoritism and a rigged system has kept Bernie Sanders in Washington for the last

 

25 years.

Did he sputter with outrage that the Vermont Democratic establishment turned its back on Ms. Sandoval, a very liberal candidate, someone who could have been the first black woman to represent Vermont in Congress? Did he wax angrily on about the corrupt, rigged system? Did he thunder righteously at the way outsiders were being oppressed?

He did not. He is fine with it if it benefits him.

Just one example of why I'm not buying his bullshit.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #170)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:44 PM

173. He has a funny way of showing gratitude.

Thanks for filling in the picture.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:40 AM

51. I agree with Bernie, for the most part.

To the extent that Democrats cater to the wealthy elites, we lose. To the extent that Democrats loathe the working class due to their poor choices and right wing ideology, we lose. To the extent that we "can't see the forest for the trees" when it comes to our primary stated goals, we lose. We have been losing for eight years. This was a slow descent into madness.

It is time for the Democratic party to adopt more of Bernie's ideas. That is my opinion. I believe that what happens will prove him right. We can choose to be smart and love each other and our country or we can choose to be just as ignorant and misguided as the Republicans. What will you do?

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Response to theophilus (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:54 AM

70. If HRC had become president, there would have been a chance of pushing the Democratic Party left.

The Democratic Party does not move left when it loses an election; it moves right. If Bernie supporters really wanted to move the Democratic Party left, they should have worked their asses off to get HRC and the Democrats in Congress to win in a landslide in 2016. Allowing the Republicans to "win", as they did in 2000, is not the way to make the argument that the country wants to move left. I thought we learned that lesson in 2000, but clearly some people weren't paying attention.

At this point, attacking the Democratic Party will only succeed in weakening it. We absolutely need to win back the House and the Senate in 2018. Relentlessly criticizing the Democratic Party is not the way to accomplish that goal.

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Response to theophilus (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:35 PM

178. You know, Whenever People Get Insulting

towards those who don't think BS and his ideas walk on water, it is a complete shut-off. BS is not the only one with ideas and intimating that people aren't smart or love their country if they don't bow down to Bernie will not get votes.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 08:47 AM

54. The Koch-funded Third Way corporatist mentality was designed to water down the Democratic Party.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:03 AM

62. When have the Kochs funded the Democratic Party?

And the Third Way shit was in the 90s. Pretending it's current is false.
I get the bumper sticker slogans are easier than substantive analysis, but that doesn't make them informative or useful.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #62)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:32 AM

75. Primarily banksters. Third Way is a Leo-Liberal Think Tank. Let's see what that definiton means.

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

(EXCERPT)
Neoliberalism (neo-liberalism)[1] refers primarily to the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism.[2] These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[10] These market-based ideas and the policies they inspired constitute a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus which lasted from 1945 to 1980.[11][12]
.
.

In the 1960s, usage of the term "neoliberal" heavily declined. When the term was reintroduced in the 1980s in connection with Augusto Pinochet's economic reforms in Chile, the usage of the term had shifted. It had not only become a term with negative connotations employed principally by critics of market reform, but it also had shifted in meaning from a moderate form of liberalism to a more radical and laissez-faire capitalist set of ideas. Scholars now tended to associate it with the theories of economists Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman and James M. Buchanan, along with politicians and policy-makers such as Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan.[4][22] Once the new meaning of neoliberalism was established as a common usage among Spanish-speaking scholars, it diffused into the English-language study of political economy.[4] By 1994, with the passage of NAFTA and the Zapatistas' reaction to this development in Chiapas, the term entered global circulation.[3] Scholarship on the phenomenon of neoliberalism has been growing.[15] The impact of the global 2008–2009 crisis has also given rise to new scholarship that critiques neoliberalism and seeks developmental alternatives.[23]
(END EXCERPT)


===


Funding, there's a bunch of articles out there):

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/12/third_way_senior_vice_president_admits_majority_of_think_tanks_funding_comes_from_wall_street/


===

Reagan, Greenspan, Buchanan, and F. A. Hayek are all concerning indicators that it is a Republican/Democrat hybrid.

.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:36 PM

172. Neoprogressive Is Attacking Liberals and Progressives from the Left...

...while echoing RW talking points.

Bernie is starting sound more and more like a Jane Stein, Susan Sarandon neoprogressive.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #172)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 03:27 PM

241. "Neoprogressive"... huh?

 

did "alt-left" not catch on or something??

wow..

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #241)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:06 PM

268. It's a right wing talking point that has shown up here,

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Response to QC (Reply #268)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 11:30 AM

285. Thanks..

 

makes one wonder..

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:01 PM

189. If you actually believe that

why do you post on a forum designed to support Democrats? Shouldn't you be spending your time focused on greens or independents or whoever it is that floats your boat?

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:39 AM

67. time to join the Democratic party bernie.

the Auto-trash by Keyword is not working..

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:15 AM

72. Just my opinion

 

but if the Democratic party turns into a bunch of Joe Liebermans, I'm out, what's the point?

One of the biggest lies out there is that the country is center right. If we just talk one issue at a time lo and behold we find out that the country is really left. If my candidate loses an election, I don't change my principles, I look for another candidate who represents them.

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Response to watoos (Reply #72)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:14 PM

212. What universe are you living in?

Last I checked, the Democratic Party was providing excellent opposition to the Republican Party despite controlling none of the three branches. Top Democrats have been speaking out in favor of left-wing policies and against the Republicans, even though traditionally they would have been expected to retreat after an electoral loss, as they did in 2000. Are you living in 2017, or in 2001? Because I don't see any Joe-Lieberman-wannabes out there. Even the real Joe Lieberman has been quiet lately.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:17 AM

73. The NYT has editorial columns running today about the perilous Democratic split.

Thanks for absolutely nothing, Bernie. Is your ego and your followers' worship worth extending trump's time in office? We have a chance to regain lost ground on account of a lunatic in the White House, and you're fucking things up, big time. Unforgivable.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #73)


Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #74)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:44 AM

80. Thank you. Who really made BS a political somebody?

 

Funny how that works isn't it.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #74)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:19 AM

98. Sanders is for the People - not trying to sink anything...

 

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #98)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:01 PM

117. unless you live in a red state then not so mutch.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #117)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:15 PM

124. Sanders is for all people - red, blue, and purple....

 

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:36 AM

77. Has any Bernie approved candidate won?

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #77)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:51 AM

83. Not to my knowledge. Even Zephyre Teachout lost in 2016. She should have won it too.

 

She'd have done better by going it alone without aligning herself to him.

BTW, did he get paid for this big speech?
Just wondering.

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Response to mhw (Reply #83)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:59 AM

89. He "hails the successes of the progressive agenda" but his candidates aren't winning seats.

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #89)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:29 PM

131. The excuse given is that he doesn't control the national party

and the GOP can run ads about Nancy Pelosi, according to Crystal Ball. So their excuse for not winning seats is that Democrats who are able to win are in office, when they shouldn't be, and that we won't have a true test of that faction's winnability until they control all offices, even though they can't win any. It's pretty strange reasoning.

Then there is the fact that most of the anointed candidates are to the right of Pelosi, but we're supposed to pretend they are to the left because . . .

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #77)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:00 PM

187. Yes. Pramila Jayapal won to represent WA state's 7th district.

I am very happy to have her represent my district.


https://www.thenation.com/article/pramila-jayapal-just-scored-one-of-the-biggest-progressive-victories-of-2016/

Pramila Jayapal Just Scored One of the Biggest Progressive Victories of 2016
She was one of the first congressional candidates this year to earn an endorsement from Bernie Sanders.

https://jayapal.house.gov/about

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #77)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:13 AM

219. Does the answer to this question provide any additional insights...

... that would be helpful to the party?


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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:53 AM

85. Seems like generic platitudes to me

Also very devisive.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:00 AM

90. Sanders is absolutely correct...

 

Dem leadership needs to change and be more outspoken and more responsive to the 99%.
Dems need to go back to our roots of being for 'the people'.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #90)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:19 AM

99. Is fracturing the party he's not even officially part of

correct? Sounds like an alternative fact to me.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #90)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:00 PM

174. FBI investigating Bernie Sanders' wife Jane Sanders for bank fraud

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/08/report-fbi-investigating-bernie-sanders-wife-jane-sanders-bank-fraud/22075766/

The wife of Democratic Sen. Bernie Sanders, Jane Sanders, is being investigated by the FBI, according to the Daily Caller.

Jane Sanders was the president of Burlington College from 2004 to 2011, and the FBI investigation is reportedly focused on allegations that she lied on loan documents while in that role.

The small Vermont liberal arts school went $10 million in debt when it purchased a new campus in 2010, and shut down in May 2016 when it went bankrupt and didn't meet accreditation standards.

Jane Sanders is accused of doctoring the loan documents in order to expand college grounds. Sanders herself claimed the college could count on $2.6 million in donations to pay for purchased land, according to a 2010 loan application. She ultimately raised only $676,000 in donations over the next four years.


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Response to TomCADem (Reply #174)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:42 PM

181. The FBI doesn't confirm or deny their investigations...

 

So, this is fake news or properly called propaganda...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #181)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:56 PM

202. And the source is Tucker Carlson lol. n/t

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #181)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 02:28 AM

217. Unless the subject is Hillary Clinton. Then they make an exception.

And I am not too concerned about Jane Sanders being investigated by the FBI, assuming it is even true. The FBI has become a partisan organization that sets out to hurt Democrats.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:23 AM

100. I am so over him. n/t

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:26 AM

102. what else would translate into votes in a non-presidential year?

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:30 AM

104. Really a non-Democrat trying to dictate terms...

start your own party. Sanders is out of touch with the reality of Washington DC, Democrats are the minority party and if he keeps spewing his shit they will be come 2018.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #104)


Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:38 AM

109. Hey Bernie, hows that democratic socialist party doing?

Oh...that party has NO leadership whatsoever and is immeasurably small?
Maybe you should work on your own party and STFU about the democratic party for a while.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)


Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:46 AM

114. If I were running for office, I wouldn't want

an endorsement from Sanders. He is 0 for all of them.

His haul of a million dollars last year puts him in the category of the elites. I'd love to know his investments to see his walk of the talk.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #114)


Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:06 PM

119. Sanders chose ideology over practical--screw him

Sanders could've work for reforming the DNC and the US political system for years if that was his goal. He chose to be ideologically pure rather than to help make meaningful change.

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Response to Julian Englis (Reply #119)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:23 PM

129. I Don't Know About Purity

UNless it's everyone else's. After all, he and his wife are doing pretty well having reached millionaire status. Which btw I have no problem with but do mind his double standard for everyone else.

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Response to Me. (Reply #129)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:41 PM

159. Exactly

I don't have any problem with personal wealth and success so long as you're working towards expanding opportunities and economic security for all in meaningful ways. My issue isn't "omg, sanders is a hypocrite and isn't pure" it's the double standard and ridiculously notion that Democrats ought to be uniformly a bunch of economic ascetics.

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Response to Me. (Reply #129)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:48 PM

183. could have been done decades ago had he chosen to represent his state differently. Money isn't hard

 


to come by when you are also a congressman or senator, as unseemly as all that may be. He stuck to his guns even through the years where they got no airtime and no traction. Sounds like an opportunist to me.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #183)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:01 PM

196. Me Too

Can't blame people wanting to have oodles of the stuff and be financially secure but do mind when he dings others for their good fortune. He was constantly after HRC yet now he's at the Cambridge Union where they're charging the public 20 pounds per and he's selling books. Now I don't know if he gets a fee but there's a lot of it around. And to put things in perspective...here's what some other people get for their bon mots...


"Hilary Duff gets $500K for her appearances. Kevin Federline (Mr. Britney Spears) gets $300K"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028996271

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Response to Me. (Reply #196)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:09 PM

197. so you chose not to acknowledge that he hasn't capitalized on his status in all of this time, and

 


yet stick to your accusation that he's an opportunist?

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Response to JCanete (Reply #197)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:21 PM

198. I Do

He's been the beneficiary of lots of taxpayer money since 1981 and then he jumps onto another party's organization, complains the entire time, and then when he doesn't win keeps bashing that party which allowed him to use their organization. And, I'd really like to see those tax returns that he never produced. Imagine if HRC tried to get away with that.

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Response to Me. (Reply #198)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:30 PM

199. that characterization does not match my own. The democratic party "let" him use the appratus

 

because the leadership is beholden to its members, enough of which welcomed Sanders into the party, WITH his message of change for the party. It didn't do it out of the kindness of its heart. Not doing so would have looked unseemly and done damage to us, not the other way around, but nobody then or now is surprised that Sanders has criticisms for the DNC. That kind of why some of us Democrats appreciate him. There are things we want to change. It would have been offensive to me had he become conciliatory and ass-kissing as soon as he started taking a dime.

When we have the tax returns, then maybe there will be something for you. Until then I guess you can keep hoping.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #199)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:36 PM

200. I'm Under The Impression That Many Of His Supporters Were Indies

Who didn't want to join the party but still wanted to choose the Dem nominee. And if there were that many of his supporters in the party he would've won.

I get that there are people who appreciate his message but why can't he just deliver it without constantly criticizing the Dem party.

As for the tax returns, I bet he never does deliver.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 12:14 PM

123. Putin loves when Sanders is bashed...

 

Sanders represents the complete opposite of what Putin and the republicans want...
He is for the people and democracy and that's why they want to stop him.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:06 PM

139. "establishment Democrats"? What Mr. Sanders is doing is telling everyone who supported Hillary is

your opinion doesn't count.

This is someone who goes out of his way to not identify with Democratic party, telling the Democratic party that he knows the way.

In 2016, candidates and issues he actively endorsed, did a dismal showing.

In fact, the candidates he actively campaigned for in elections in Nebraska and Wyoming in 2017 did not do well either.

I don't know what will happen in Georgia's 6th district, but the fact that Senator Sanders went out of his way to question Ossoff's "progressive" credentials, and hasn't actively campaigned for him as he did for candidates in Omaha and Wyoming, only give credence that perhaps Ossoff's positive poll numbers indicate that it is probably a good thing that Senator Sanders hasn't been there.

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Response to still_one (Reply #139)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:13 PM

148. +1

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Response to still_one (Reply #139)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:01 PM

168. If Sanders were posting here, they would be deleted for refighting the primaries.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #168)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:00 PM

188. Hillary's posts would too by the looks of things.

 

Welcome to pile-on Sunday.
Happens every wedk.

Bait & Hide Bait & Hide.
We all see it.

This whole thread is one big "Refighting the Primary".

Maybe the whole thing should be deleted for the sake of peace on this Great Democratic Site.

I'd like to keep it that way for awhile.

Sides have been taken & that is an unfortunate thing.

However Dems have every right to defend their Party when statements are made against them.
Especially on a Dem Site.

Yet the censorship of voices continues.
We see it.

Hope Democratic Underground will survive to see many more elections, our great Dems like Maxine Waters & E Cummings, McCaskill, Franken& Casey etc..are the seasoned leaders we will always need.
They have been there long enough to know who the RW snakes are & how our Fed laws work.
We need more like them. Always standing for "we the people".
They don't deserve to be damned & discredited by any of their own.
You're either their friend or their foe.

Simple as that.



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Response to Hoyt (Reply #168)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:24 PM

204. My post WAS NOT about the primaries. It was about the general election,

and the results of the issues and candidates endorsed in that GENERAL ELECTION. It also made similar observations with what is happening in the special elections in 2017.

The article in the OP is making the argument that "these establishment Democrats", really don't count.

Are you saying I am "re-fighting the primaries because I am responding to the
OP's article's accusation that these so-called "establishment Democrats" make up a large segment of the Democratic party?

This nonsense about redefining the word "establishment" with negative connotations, is the same garbage strategy the right wing used to characterize "liberal" with negative connotations. It is a false narrative and straw man argument

How about this, every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states in the GENERAL ELECTION, lost to the incumbent, establishment, republican

I guess establishment is in the eyes of the beholder, which is why it is a false flag



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Response to still_one (Reply #139)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:11 PM

269. + 1

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:11 PM

147. How can he work for the DNC and say these things? Seems hypocritical at best.

 

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:25 PM

150. The entire premise of that article is false.

Why do people relish posting articles of presumed "democrats" criticizing the Democratic Party, and in this case falsely? If he's truly concerned about a "failure of the Democratic Party's strategy", why doesn't he join the Democratic Party and work with them to help instead of globetrotting on a Democratic Party bashing tour?

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:46 PM

163. The way I see it, is this OP certainly lets Dems see once and for all where Bernie stands...

...regarding OUR party.

The news article is just a news article. What's infuriating is to see who here is once again willing to join his bandwagon in attempting to rip apart the Democratic Party by denigrating all its achievements and efforts.

We're struggling to save democracy itself from Trump and Putin, and the DEMOCRATS are Bernie's target? With friends like these, who the hell needs enemies?

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:50 PM

164. While I embrace many progressive ideals, I am very much over

Bernie Sanders.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 01:54 PM

165. Well he has a right to push his views and their certainly is an audience for his vision.

 

He also should understand the party is a big tent party and there are different views.

One thing that does bother me is if he wants to lead this party why doesn't he identify as a Democrat? This annoys me.

But other than that this is all Politics.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 02:33 PM

171. Can He Count? Someone Tell This Idiot That Republicans Are In the Majority

Bernie really needs to take a high school civics class if he thinks that Democrats are the ones driving the agenda today.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:15 PM

175. he is a problem

 

Bernie Sanders is the second most dangerous politician to our democracy. And I truly mean that. I like a lot of his ideas but his delivery is extremely dangerous. He has no intention of improving the party much less to join it. He just wants to bash it. And for what putpose? Ego?

He is not an ally. At all.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 03:19 PM

176. Time would be better spent attacking REPUBLICANS

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:24 PM

193. I 100% support TPP

Sanders is creating some sort of a purity test at a time when democratic party needs to attract independents and moderates.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 04:44 PM

194. Wake me when Sanders joins the party.

Otherwise all he does is divide us and help the R's win.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:32 PM

214. If the Democratic Party is working so well

Then how come we've lost all three branches of government and most of the state governments? How's "more of the same" working out for Democrats? Or America?

A friend is someone who will tell you the truth even when you don't want to hear it.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #214)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:19 AM

220. It could be....

 

Last edited Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:57 AM - Edit history (1)

It could be the rash of underhanded tricks and crimes that the republican party has been engaging in


I don't know it could be interstate cross check,
It could be the gutting of the voter rights act
It could be the gerrymandering
It could be the russian propaganda war that republicans seem to be ok with
It could be potential russian tampering with voting systems as has been recently reported
It could be the fishy scenario that thousands and thousands of black folks waited hours in line to vote and then just decided to not cast a vote for president.
It could be the closing of polling station in predominantly black neighborhoods.


It could be these and a lot of other things as well... Should the Democratic party always be working to better itself? Yes it should. But this guy is not helping anything. I used to think it was just his tone and his delivery that made him sound like that. I am beginning to think it is all because he got his ego boost and thinks he gets to dictate what a party has to do to appease him. A party that he refuses to join. I don't mind pressuring the democratic party to move their message left. But you don't get to hijack the party and start making demands. Not when you aren't willing to put your ass on the line for it.

Then there is the fact that we ALL need to be mindful of our politicians in our party and those that claim to be our friends. Looking at the Russian operation of how they keep their people in total disarray I'd keep a very keen eye trained on Mr. Sanders. In russian operations when people get riled up about their government they will at times fund part of the movement against them and control the message. I have been very suspicious of Jill Stein and I think we had better keep an eye on Sanders' tactics as well. It smells bad. And if it smells bad it's likely rotten.

I know this post is going to piss off a lot of folks but it's just my opinion. If I can be critical of Corey Booker and other dems I can be critical of the guy throwing mud at my party.

This is a great video to watch.

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Response to moda253 (Reply #220)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 11:55 AM

221. Much of that is true

However, none of that would have been possible had Democrats been winning elections.

The Russians are a major problem and I hope everyone complicit in 2016 goes to prison for treason, but loss on the current scale involves Democratic failure on every level -- local, state, and federal -- for the last decade.

I'm not saying theres no good reasons to be critical of Sanders, but it doesn't mean that he's also not right. Also, I think our perspective of him is largely filtered for us through corporate media. I've been to a speech in which Sanders talked about economic and social justice for a solid 45 minutes, and had one line about "the establishment." The headline in my local paper the next day? "Sanders Slams Dems."

You know how they spent 30 years slandering Clinton? They did/do the same thing to Sanders. Anything to keep us from uniting, anything to keep in place a power structure designed by and for the benefit of wealthy, white, straight, Christian males.

We're playing their game and feeding their narrative.

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Response to moda253 (Reply #220)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:56 PM

229. Great post!

As a former admirer and supporter of Sen Sanders, I applaud this post. And as a former admirer and listener of Thom Hartmann, whose radio show was my introduction to Sen Sanders, I note that TH is featured on TV by RT. I now find this even more troubling, given the facts that just keep coming on Russia's interference (at the very least) with our 2016 electoral cycle - and I am getting weary of a avowed non-Democrat, who now appears to spend almost all of his airtime scolding the party he refuses to join, trying to muscle his way into an unearned and unwarranted leadership position in the party he refuses to join and does not belong to.

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Response to moda253 (Reply #220)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:31 PM

242. Wow

And it does smell bad. Here's a guy who has a wife who destroyed a college with her ineptness and is being investigated by the FBI and he blows that off as nothing and in the next breath kicks around the DEms.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #214)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:38 PM

247. If the Democratic Party is a failure

why in fuck's name is Bernie immune from criticism or responsibility? He's arguable the third most influential voice in the party right now; he needs to own this shit.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #214)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:25 PM

248. Russia, Comey, 3rd party Liars, stein and sarandon,

Voter Suppression, gerrymandering, the m$m normalizing trump and working overtime on the Democratic hate machine.

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Response to Cha (Reply #248)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:00 PM

267. That might explain Hillary

It doesnt explain the losses at every other level. Voter suppression and gerrymandering are only possible where Republicans win. You say the mainstream media is normalizing Trump? They'd stop their ostensibly-centrist bullshit if we stopped watching.

We're not doing as good a job at explaining our positions or fielding candidates as we should be.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #267)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 08:51 AM

281. Explain Feingold...who is the epitome of 'pure'.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #281)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 11:27 AM

284. I never used the word pure and think looking for purity is dumb

And a waste of time. I proudly voted for Hillary -- and phone banked for, and knocked on doors for, and gave money to -- because she and Bernie agreed on all the important issues and shared a 95% similar voting record.

But gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. wouldn't be possible if Republican politicians hadn't won the electoral positions making it possible.

It's too late to win in 2016, much less argue Sanders/Clinton, but perhaps the activist base can help correct some of the losses we've incurred over the last 15 years or so. If Sanders gets a whole lot of people involved in politics that otherwise wouldn't have been involved (which is his one strength), then I'm all for it. If his method of doing that is talking shit about the leadership of our party, well, they're big boys and girls and can handle the insult.

Because that's basically what it comes down to: we've all got hurt feelings and President Trump. The only way to stop Trump is by winning elections at every possible level. Taking the same approach that's lost us most elected positions across the US is not the way of doing that.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #284)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:24 PM

286. We didn't win last year... I don't think getting the activist base all riled up by criticizing

Democrats is useful...and I must wonder how many will vote for us anyway. There is a choice...Trump or the Democrats...that is it. If you want change, than join the party and work at it or if already a member than run for office, or become a delegate...go to meetings...change happens from the bottom up. Criticizing the party leaders doesn't help anyone...we all hang together or hang separately in 18...and trashing the party drive voters away...and the GOP uses your 'big boy and girl words against us...and it happened in 16 and we lost...so how about not trashing of the party. Your method give people a reason not to vote Democratic ...is that really the message you want to send? And it enables the GOP who say why even this liberal said this about this...they hate Dems too...and if you go on twitter, there are dozens of examples.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:38 PM

226. Why is this LBN? It would be LBN if Bernie actually said something nice about the Democratic party

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Response to still_one (Reply #226)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:58 PM

236. Good One

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Response to still_one (Reply #226)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:29 PM

249. Yeah, if he actually acknowledged what

the Democratic Party has done for America.







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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 02:46 PM

238. I'm so sick of him.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:54 PM

245. Timing

What gets me is the timing of Bernie's message. Show us your taxes, Bern.

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Response to enid602 (Reply #245)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:44 PM

254. And where is Tad Devine these days

 

hiding or hanging with Manafort?

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Response to Chevy (Reply #254)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:49 PM

256. Bern

I can't see why bern would make this statement at this time except to give tRump some shade.

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Response to nitpicker (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:49 PM

255. The Democratic Party is out there on the front lines

Fighting against the Fascistrumps and the takeover of America by Russia.

All BS does is insult the Democratic Party and try to divide us.

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Response to Cha (Reply #255)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:13 PM

271. + 1 - preach!



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Response to musette_sf (Reply #271)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 09:46 PM

272. Aloha, musette!

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