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Thu May 25, 2017, 08:19 PM

Russia Duped Bernie Fans via Facebook, San Diego Dems Told

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by DonViejo (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: TIMES of SAN DIEGO

Oliver Mitov was dispatched by the Kremlin to get Bernie Sanders fans to vote third-party in the November election, write in the Democratic primary loser for president — or not vote at all.

But investigative journalist John Mattes, describing how fake stories on Facebook helped defeat Hillary Clinton, isn’t sure who Mitov is. Mattes said 8.7 million shares, reactions and comments on Sanders-backing Facebook pages were spawned by bogus anti-Clinton attacks. That compares with just under 7.4 million shares, reactions and comments connected to legitimate news sources.

“He may be a bot. He may be a person [or four]. He may be living in Macedonia, laughing,” Mattes told a rapt audience of 90 Thursday night in Hillcrest.
But Mitov’s thousands of posts — and similar ones from Albania and elsewhere — duped just enough of the 13 million Sanders supporters to hand the election to Donald Trump and prove Russia could hack American democracy, said the 66-year-old resident of Pacific Beach.
A major Sanders organizer in Southern California himself, Mattes admitted that “we were played.”
Grass-roots advocates of the Vermont senator did the best they could to identify fake postings that depicted Clinton in negative and shocking ways, Mattes said, but it wasn’t enough.
Two days after being cited on MSNBC’s “The Rachel Maddow Show,” Mattes gave San Diego Democrats for Equality a briefing on how Russia continues to exploit Facebook

Read more: http://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2017/03/23/russia-duped-bernie-fans-via-facebook-san-diego-dems-told/

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Reply Russia Duped Bernie Fans via Facebook, San Diego Dems Told (Original post)
factfinder_77 May 2017 OP
Dream Girl May 2017 #1
Docreed2003 May 2017 #2
rzemanfl May 2017 #3
Maggiemayhem May 2017 #9
csziggy May 2017 #26
c-rational May 2017 #49
still_one May 2017 #4
left-of-center2012 May 2017 #5
still_one May 2017 #6
elmac May 2017 #7
disillusioned73 May 2017 #86
Gothmog May 2017 #8
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #10
nycbos May 2017 #14
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #16
nycbos May 2017 #18
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #21
nycbos May 2017 #25
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #27
BainsBane May 2017 #66
bettyellen May 2017 #29
Lil Missy May 2017 #77
leftofcool May 2017 #19
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #22
La Lioness Priyanka May 2017 #60
George II May 2017 #72
paleotn May 2017 #33
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #34
paleotn May 2017 #48
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #58
paleotn May 2017 #61
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #69
BainsBane May 2017 #35
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #50
BainsBane May 2017 #52
Trial_By_Fire May 2017 #54
BainsBane May 2017 #63
GulfCoast66 May 2017 #68
LanternWaste May 2017 #82
George II May 2017 #71
stonecutter357 May 2017 #11
WellDarn May 2017 #12
Hassin Bin Sober May 2017 #15
BainsBane May 2017 #42
meow2u3 May 2017 #23
wildeyed May 2017 #28
murielm99 May 2017 #64
Lil Missy May 2017 #76
BainsBane May 2017 #41
JTFrog May 2017 #47
betsuni May 2017 #62
Post removed May 2017 #80
LanternWaste May 2017 #83
JTFrog May 2017 #46
klook May 2017 #51
paleotn May 2017 #55
PatrickforO May 2017 #13
silverweb May 2017 #17
George II May 2017 #20
GusBob May 2017 #84
FailureToCommunicate May 2017 #24
mitch96 May 2017 #30
mr_lebowski May 2017 #31
YOHABLO May 2017 #32
paleotn May 2017 #36
stuffmatters May 2017 #37
BainsBane May 2017 #45
stuffmatters May 2017 #53
BainsBane May 2017 #56
bucolic_frolic May 2017 #38
ucrdem May 2017 #39
paleotn May 2017 #65
ucrdem May 2017 #73
BainsBane May 2017 #40
ucrdem May 2017 #43
BainsBane May 2017 #44
ucrdem May 2017 #57
paleotn May 2017 #59
betsuni May 2017 #67
LovingA2andMI May 2017 #70
QC May 2017 #74
trueblue2007 May 2017 #75
Amimnoch May 2017 #78
BainsBane May 2017 #79
WellDarn May 2017 #81
disillusioned73 May 2017 #85
DonViejo May 2017 #87

Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:25 PM

1. Two minutes at JPR last fall told me all I needed to know. Lots of folks got all worked up and

suckered bigly. They really showed 'em by voting for Jill Stein!

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #1)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:26 PM

2. They're still at it sadly....continuing with such gems as the Rich CT.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:26 PM

3. Jill Stein voters in three states put Drumpf in the White House. This is how. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #3)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:46 PM

9. Not that it proves anything but,

Jill Stein and Micheal Flynn dined in Russia with Putin in 2015. Bernie Sanders did tell his supporters to back Clinton after he lost primary and Stein told followers to vote the for Trump because like how could you vote for Clinton. I don't like her and thought her involvement with "recount" was just to cover her ass.

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Response to Maggiemayhem (Reply #9)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:58 PM

26. Whatever happened to all the money Stein raised for the recounts?

I haven't seen a final accounting of how much was raised, or how much she actually spent.

The only sources I could find during this year were all conservative ones that I don't trust. This article was written before all the accounting was finished.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Leftover funds from election recount efforts to be donated, says Jill Stein
BY Scott Bauer, Associated Press December 13, 2016 at 12:43 PM EDT

MADISON, Wis. — Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein said Tuesday that she will donate any money left over from her bids to force election recounts in three states to groups dedicated to election reform and voting rights.

Stein’s campaign raised about $7.3 million to fund her recount efforts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, and she said she expects there to be some leftover money once all expenses are paid. There are currently $7.4 million in recount expenses, but that’s expected to decrease once the Wisconsin and Michigan costs are finalized.

Republican Donald Trump narrowly defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton in all three states on his way to victory. Wisconsin was the only state that completed a recount, finishing Monday with little change in the results. Trump beat Clinton by nearly 23,000 votes in the state. A federal court halted Michigan’s recount after three days and another federal judge didn’t allow a recount in Pennsylvania.

<SNIP>

Stein said Tuesday that she had raised $7.33 million from nearly 161,300 donors. Even if she doesn’t keep any leftover money, the recounts helped her build a database of donors that could be sold to others or tapped for future efforts.

More: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/leftover-funds-election-recount-efforts-donated-says-jill-stein/

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #3)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:42 PM

49. Agreed...From what I understand about 75,000 oeople...less than would fill Giant Stadium and

throw in Snowden saying this is the time to vote for the 3rd party candidate...it was a silent coup.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:27 PM

4. This is from March, so it may not fit the category of LBN

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Response to still_one (Reply #4)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:31 PM

5. Agreed

News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #5)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:33 PM

6. I suspect the OP is unaware of that

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Response to still_one (Reply #4)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:35 PM

7. or maybe we all just timewarped back to march!

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Response to elmac (Reply #7)

Fri May 26, 2017, 08:36 AM

86. Or maybe..

there is an anti-Bernie agenda??

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:36 PM

8. The Russian efforts included disinformation

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:50 PM

10. No. Sanders supporters are way too smart to be 'duped' by anybody...

 

At least a HUGE majority that is...

Thanks for another dog with a bone post.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #10)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:03 PM

14. Really?

Is that why educated urban areas in the primary went for Hillary and uneducared rural areas went for Bernie?

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Response to nycbos (Reply #14)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:14 PM

16. Yes, really...

 

Can you provide a source for your assertion? And are you saying 12,000,000 Sanders voters are 'uneducated'?
I think the results says it all...

And, the thread is about being duped by Russians. But good try at the insult.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #16)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:33 PM

18. Look at primary maps from the 2012 election.

NYC votes for Hillary

Upstate for Sanders.


Hillary wins Boston and Cambridge


Western and Central MA went for Sanders.


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Response to nycbos (Reply #18)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:48 PM

21. There is no IQ question on voter registrations....

 

Or what level of education achieved and/or GPA?

So, are you simply assuming certain areas of certain states represent all primary voters?

Is this some sort of 'elitist' bull?

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #21)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:56 PM

25. Yes this is VERY elitist.

You want to know who also were elitists.

FDR, the Kennedy's.

Lets stop thinking that the word elite is a bad word.


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Response to nycbos (Reply #25)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:59 PM

27. I see you are deflecting now...

 

If you cannot support your assertions, well, that says a lot...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #21)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:15 PM

66. You're the one proclaiming one part of the population superior

You don't get to then turn around and complain about elitism. There could be little more elitist than your claim.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #18)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:01 PM

29. She made some people "culturally anxious"

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #16)

Fri May 26, 2017, 01:43 AM

77. You changed the subject. It didn't say "12,000,000 of Sanders voters are 'uneducated'" It says:

Bernie supporters were "DUPED".

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #10)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:36 PM

19. Is that why over 20K Sanders supporters voted for a gorilla?

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #19)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:48 PM

22. A gorilla?

 

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #22)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:03 PM

60. harambe

 

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #22)

Fri May 26, 2017, 12:03 AM

72. Yes.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #10)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:05 PM

33. Oh, yes. The monolithic "Sanders Supporters"

kind of like no true Scotsman? Nice fallacy you have there. Use it much?

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Response to paleotn (Reply #33)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:08 PM

34. I noticed that you did not write a similar post on the main thread...

 

"Bernie fans"?

And, I am not sure what the meaning of your post really is...? Care to elaborate?

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #34)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:40 PM

48. It's the ole true Scotsman fallacy....

.....your statement..."Sanders supporters are way too smart to be 'duped' by anybody"... is a prime example of the true Scotsman fallacy. Bernie supporters aren't some monolithic group of superior intelligence. Nor are they a group of clones you can easily pigeon hole into "Bernie Supporters." It's people of many different ideas, views, experiences and walks of life. Some are politically savvy, while others are mere neophytes, and every other kind in between. Like most things on earth...a continuum. And within that continuum are those who are very susceptible to political misinformation of one type or another.

Many of them probably were, as you say, smart enough not to fall for the propaganda, but more than a few stayed home or voted 3rd party. A few even voted for donnie small hands, believe it or not. Most probably voted for Clinton in the end, but politics is still a game of inches. All you need is just enough voters to screw themselves, or be screwed through voter suppression, or stay home and pout since they don't really have a clue how this political thingy works, or be bat shit crazy like Susie Sarandon, and we end up with a lunatic in the White House. That's the brilliance of Rethuglican political tactics, super charged by Russian hacking and misinformation.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #48)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:55 PM

58. Maybe the entire thread is off base then....

 

...to say "Russia duped Bernie fans' falls right into what you are writing.

Let's remember that clinton 'won' the primary let lost the electoral college. Maybe that is where people
should focus this election autopsy.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #58)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:04 PM

61. I didn't write that Russia duped Bernie fans....

....only some Bernie fans. Probably not a huge number, but just enough to flip the electoral college. They also duped just enough independents, and even Republicans who wouldn't normally support a serial groper. That's my point. Hell, I voted for Bernie in the primary, and said some pretty nasty things about Clinton, so my hands aren't clean....but...the evidence showed that the distance between Sanders and Clinton was a matter of millimeters compared to the light years between both of them and the Republicans and she got my vote in the general.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #61)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:30 PM

69. I don't think it is right to 'blame'....

 

...'others' for a candidate to lose an election. To say "only some Bernie fans...but just enough to flip the electoral college' is harsh and uncalled for. I follow President Truman and his quote 'the buck stops here'. It's called accepting responsibility.

People are allowed and it is absolutely desirable that people vote their conscience. Both general election candidates had huge negative numbers - that was a huge part of the problem....in my humble opinion...

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #10)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:11 PM

35. Refusing to consider evidence

is not smart.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #35)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:43 PM

50. What evidence are you referring to?

 

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #50)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:44 PM

52. Testimony by Clint Watts before the Senate Intelligence Committee

on the very point made in the OP.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #52)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:50 PM

54. I would argue that it is impossible to know if Russians influenced Sanders Supporters...

 

You would have to go to the 12,000,000 Sanders supporters and ask them 'did the Russians influence your vote'?

Sanders supporters are actually smart enough to filter out the 'fake news'.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #54)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:10 PM

63. ever hear of Jackpine Radicals?

that site is devoted to spreading that fake news, only they believe it's true.

We don't how many Sanders supporters were influenced anymore than we know how many Trump voters were, but we all saw the disinformation being spread repeatedly. We also see the end result in terms of votes and the fact Trump is president.

I don't know why you've decided that support for one presidential candidate makes people inherently more intelligent than support for others. Obviously you don't know all of them, let alone have access their IQ tests. The fact you think Sanders voters are inherently superior points to a problem that goes far beyond the Russian propaganda campaign. It not only has no factual basis, but it is troubling in terms of its hierarchical view of human worth, something that contradicts the ideals of equality that is the basis of leftist ideologies.

Then the question arises as to what you mean by smart? How is it measured, and what evidence do you have to support your claim? Exit poll data provides information on education, and it demonstrates the opposite of what you claim. Then the fact you make such a proclamation without any concern for how it could be proven undermines the point itself.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #54)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:28 PM

68. Too bad many of his non-Democratic Party member supporters were not smart enough

To figure out that in many states registered Independents cannot vote in the Democratic Party Primary.

Not all by any means, but enough to raise a fuss here on DU. And hell, I am a rarity here that I loved neither candidate but of course was committed to voting for the winner of the primary.

Have a nice evening.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #54)

Fri May 26, 2017, 08:20 AM

82. It's important you continue arguing against any possibility rather than allowing for a possibility.

It's important you continue arguing against any other possibility rather than allowing for any other possibility; our biases and sacred cows demand as such.

Even when we are unable to support our allegations and conclusions with any objective evidence, well... you're demonstrably smart enough to filter out the valid, the plausible and the inconvenient.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #10)

Fri May 26, 2017, 12:03 AM

71. And just how do you know that?

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 08:58 PM

11. K&R!

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:00 PM

12. Bernie supporters

 

Weren't the only ones "duped."

Thousands of bogus posts were foisted on Democrats as "evidence" and even "proof" that Bernie supporters were racists, misogynists, etc.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #12)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:08 PM

15. David Brock did more damage than any Russian could have dreamed.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #15)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:25 PM

42. How do you figure that?

Because he dared to finance a couple of sites that promoted pro-Clinton information?

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #12)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:53 PM

23. Those bogus posts were all over DU last year

Only we didn't realize the fakery at the time.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #23)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:00 PM

28. Some of us did.

I didn't understand exactly where the posts were coming from, but I knew that they were written by either 14 year olds or people who didn't speak English as their first language. I also knew than much of the content was generated by computer algorithms. I even wrote my own bot that could randomly generate short post that sounded exactly like a bunch of the mess that was posted here. It wasn't hard.

In no way, shape or form do I think that the majority of Sanders supporters were like the bot and troll generated posters, but they did set a tone that was hard to escape.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #23)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:13 PM

64. Maybe you didn't.

I did and so did many other Duers.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #23)

Fri May 26, 2017, 01:40 AM

76. I knew. Many here knew. n/t

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #12)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:25 PM

41. Create a strawmam

and then use that self-created strawman as evidence of so-called duplicity. I was here for all of that and remember it quite well. What we saw was very different from what you describe. That, however, is in the past. The Trump administration and its horrific hold on America--which was the end result of the Kremlin operation--is very much in the present. What is sad is that you continue to focus more on your own feelings that the country's decent into fascism.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #41)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:37 PM

47. +1 nt

 

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #41)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:05 PM

62. +1

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #41)


Response to Post removed (Reply #80)

Fri May 26, 2017, 08:22 AM

83. Creative allegations...

Creative allegations; though that type of linear thought may lead to Stockholm System we're told...

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #12)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:36 PM

46. Herp derp. nt

 

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #12)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:43 PM

51. No, no -- we're to be called Bernie "fans"

not "supporters." And you're not supposed to notice that we overwhelmingly supported and voted for Clinton in the General Election.

This is another "You and him fight" thread. Trashing.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #12)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:50 PM

55. It worked both ways....

dissension that is. Get the opposing party fighting among themselves and let that spill over into the general, with the help of bots and Macedonian trolls. I worry how our democracy can overcome this. It really scares the shit out of me.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:03 PM

13. I was a Sanders supporter, and when he lost the primary I voted for Clinton.

I can only speak for me, but I wouldn't have voted for Stein because I did not think her competent for the office. The libertarian candidate was also ignorant and unqualified. Trump, of course...well, we've seen him in action now - I never would have voted for him in a million years.

That left Clinton, most of whose policies I agreed with, and who certainly was (and is) competent to hold the office.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #13)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:23 PM

17. Same here.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I kept asking the "Bernie or Bust" people why, if they trusted him enough to want him to be president, they didn't trust him enough to vote for Hillary when he asked us to. I got crickets or angry screeds in return. It made no sense to me at all.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:45 PM

20. Not just on Facebook, but on many other sites as well.

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Response to George II (Reply #20)

Fri May 26, 2017, 08:32 AM

84. Does Jack Radically Shit in the Pines?

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 09:54 PM

24. Article is from March. move on

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:02 PM

30. Russia Duped Bernie Fans

Oliver Mitov was dispatched by the Kremlin to get Bernie Sanders fans to vote third-party in the November election, write in the Democratic primary loser for president — or not vote at all.

This is an old political ploy to split the vote. Joe Kennedy did this back in the '40's to get Jack Kennedy into Congress.

"Jack's opponent in the primary election was a legitimate politician named Joe Russo. To insure that Jack won the primary campaign, Joe Kennedy paid Joseph Russo, a janitor, to also enter the race. This effectively confused the voters, and split the votes for Joe Russo".
Notice Joe vs Joseph...

https://www.cwporter.com/ytedksonprez.htm #5

Hell Trump could have paid Jill Stein to split the vote too.... via Putin's boys..
m

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:03 PM

31. By and large I'd bet it was independents & lo info voters these fake stories impacted most

The massive anti-Hillary deluge got just enough of them to stay home, vote 3rd party, or even push them towards Drumpf.

What I'm wondering about re: this whole thing ... what exact would the 'crime' be if Trump were found to colluded with Russians to distribute Fake News to people's FB and similar feeds? Can someone point me to a statute that actually makes a candidate doing something like that ... illegal? Would you have to prove the candidate colluded with 'The Government', or is it enough to just collude with 'foreigners' in general? Would it be illegal if they were from, say, the UK as opposed to Russia?

I mean after all, how different would THAT be ... than the GOP clearly colluding with Aussie Rupert Murdoch to distribute fake news and GOP talking points and wild CT's ... for over 20 years.

I understand the DNC (and similar) hacking involves an actual crime, but unless you could say w/o doubt Trump ordered and directly paid for said hacking (pretty doubtful honestly, esp. the idea we might ever prove it, esp. since he wouldn't NEED to pay for it himself) I'm not sure we'd actually 'have them' on anything technically illegal if it was just targeted fake news, with perhaps some Soviet-bloc civilians involved in the process.

Unless someone knows something I don't?

However, all the lying on forms and before Congress over Russian ties, and the Comey firing, and the obstruction ... like they say ... it's always the COVERUP that gets ya. Trump probably should've just copped from the start ...

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:03 PM

32. No one duped me. If anyone was duped it was blue collar workers voting for Trump.

People who get duped are those not paying any attention. They're not participating in the democratic process till voting day.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:13 PM

36. Just enough leverage is all one needs...

Politics is a game of inches. The Rethuglicans know that very well. Apparently so do the Russians. All you need to do is shave a few votes here. Cage a few votes there. Deny a few their right to vote thru voter suppression. Sow negative ads to turn off a few more voters and / or spread dissension in the opposing party and voila. You have an wholly owned, orange shit stain in the White House.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:14 PM

37. Mattes is a Fox Reporter in San Diego

Who is the beneficiary to his antiBernie Dem propaganda claiming 13 million ( unimaginably gullible, apparently) Bernie supporters cost Hillary the election? Really?Get a grip on reality fellow Dems please. Stop with this mythology that both Putin and the RNC promote
to keep our Party divided and distracted.

I have never met a Democratic Bernie supporter who did not vote for Hillary. If Bernie attracted angry Independents and they went Trump in the end after decades of Rep, Fox and MSM Hillary bashing, that is completely out of the control or responsibility of Bernie Sanders or any Dem who'd hoped he would be the candidate.

Bernie begged his supporters to switch to Hillary, campaigned tirelessly for her, and in my perception (yours may vary) tried to steer her to espouse plainly popular issues and broaden her appeal.

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Response to stuffmatters (Reply #37)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:35 PM

45. There was evidence presented to the Senate on this point

and the fact is some did vote for Stein. Not many, but enough to turn the electoral college.

Are you really claiming you never once heard a Sanders supporter argue the primary was rigged? If you did, then you witnessed the Kremlin propaganda campaign in action.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #45)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:46 PM

53. The Kremlin Campaign is to keep blaming Sanders supporters for Hillary's loss

You're continuing to play their game.I have nothing more to say to you.

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Response to stuffmatters (Reply #53)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:51 PM

56. The Kremlin doesn't give a shit about Sanders

Their goal is to impose nationalism throughout the West. Your reaction is a perfect example of people refusing to consider evidence they find inconvenient.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:15 PM

38. Yes, we were being divided

as differences of opinion and outlook were widened to schisms, but
few would listen to counterarguments at the time.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:20 PM

39. Russia eh? Did Russia spend billions over the last 25 years focus grouping

anti-Clinton memes in Florida? No it did not. I'll accept the excuse as a polite fiction but I don't believe for a second that Russia had any material effect on the last election. The VRWC however did. Possibly they offshored some back-office thuggery to Siberia but otherwise nyet.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:14 PM

65. I hope you're right....

but the evidence seems to point to the GRU spending a lot of time and effort on this. And they've done the same through several European election cycles. If it's that easy for a foreign adversary in the age of social media to subvert democracy, we're in for a pretty nasty time until we outgrow this bullshit...if we ever do. Part of me thinks we will or that, as you said, it had little impact. Part of me isn't too sure.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #65)

Fri May 26, 2017, 12:07 AM

73. If they'd really been punked by Russia, they wouldn't be talking about Russia.

They're allergic to truth. Whatever Russia did it got paid to do. It's like those crappy WalMart appliances: the brand might change but the toaster does not.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:23 PM

40. We all witnessed this disinformation

frequently. It dominated social media, as evidenced presented to the Senate Intelligence Committee makes clear. Yet despite that evidence, we see people insisting that the disinformation didn't influence Bernie supporters. Yet we still see the arguments that came from that disinformation repeated as though they were fact. The consequences of refusing to think about the way in which people were played is to extend the effect of the Kremlin--pro-Trump, white nationalist propaganda. Note that the Trumster's also deny the effect of Russian propaganda while continuing to repeat it.

The reason the Kremlin succeeded with their propaganda efforts is the tendency in our society for people to reject information they find inconvenient and believe anything that they want to be true, irrespective of evidence. It is that same tendency that prompts people to ignore the evidence of Kremlin online infiltration of pro-Bernie sites because they've decided support for Bernie makes people somehow better or smarter. You might as well claim people with blue eyes are smarter. Besides, what matters is not "smart" but being informed and a capacity to think critically based on evidence. If we had a population that based their thinking of evidence rather than emotion or tribal affinities, we wouldn't face the shit storm brought about by the Kremlin propaganda campaign. When people deny it, they ensure it continues.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #40)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:27 PM

43. The Kremlin didn't spend years figuring out which messages make deplorables hate Hillary most.

Jerks like this did:

The Best Way to Vilify Hillary Clinton? G.O.P. Spends Heavily to Test It
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/us/the-best-way-to-vilify-clinton-gop-spends-heavily-to-test-it.html

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #43)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:30 PM

44. Yes, but they played it to perfection

and knew exactly how to influence the so-called left. The effectiveness of the Kremlin operation continues to be demonstrated, even today. That bogus lawsuit against the DNC is based on emails the Kremlin doctored to convince Bernie supporters the primary was rigged.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #44)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:53 PM

57. Putin is smart but the anti-Clinton operation goes way back.

The GOP brain trust might have laundered their ratfuckery through Vlad's computers and hired some cheap Russian labor but the fake populism was straight from the Segretti-Rove playbook. Speaking of which remember that book on McKinley's election that Rove published in 2016? It was all about using fake populism to elect a Republican:

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #40)

Thu May 25, 2017, 10:55 PM

59. +100010

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #40)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:28 PM

67. +1

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Thu May 25, 2017, 11:38 PM

70. This is in LBN???

From MARCH 2017? Really?

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #70)

Fri May 26, 2017, 12:13 AM

74. Gee, I wonder why it's still open....

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Fri May 26, 2017, 01:23 AM

75. i'm so sad, i can't help but cry. i still am depressed HRC lost to that monster

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Fri May 26, 2017, 01:49 AM

78. I suspect there was some two-way street influence there.

I'd long suspected false surrogates on both sides having the sole purpose to wedge the rift between the candidates and especially their supporters. Fake Clinton supporters with the sole purpose of spreading information and to infuriate and alienate Sanders supporters, and vice versa.

However, I'd suspected it was some kind of GOP/right wing led initiative until the Russian stories started breaking late last summer.

I certainly feel that the effort paid off for them.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #78)

Fri May 26, 2017, 06:04 AM

79. What you suspect is not supported by evidence

whereas we have Clint Watts Testimony that demonstrates the Kremlin employed tens of thousands of online trolls to infiltrate online Sanders spaces to spread false claims about Clinton and work to suppress the Democratic vote by convincing Sanders supporters the primary was rigged.

In fact everything we know about the Russian intent makes your claim untenable. Their goal was to defeat Clinton and elect Trump. There was no reason for them to engage in what you claim. There has been absolutely no evidence that the Kremlin did anything like what you "suspect."

The false equivalencies, based on no evidence, and continual denials in the face of evidence demonstrates precisely why the Kremlin was so successful in convincing Americans to put Trump in office. All the Kremlin had to do was promote arguments they knew their targets wanted to believe. It's easy to point fingers at Republicans, but addressing the problem requires a willingness to confront evidence about its influence among the left/progressives/Democrats as well.

Too many don't care about facts or evidence. Instead, they promote what they want to believe and discount the rest. It is that tendency which ensures that operations like the Kremlin's will continue to succeed in the future. As long as people insist what they suspect or want to believe is equal to or more credible than information based on evidence--as long as Americans continue to display wanton disregard for facts--we cannot sustain democracy. Out political system is rapidly deteriorating, and the fault lies with citizens. Responses in threads like these and the continuing circulation of suspect and bogus "news" lead me to despair for the future of democracy.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #79)

Fri May 26, 2017, 07:47 AM

81. Oh, the denial here is astounding

 

You are no doubt correct re: what was spread. It was pure hate for Hillary by any means necessary. It was intended to hurt Hillary and her alone.

What you wish to ignore is that it was designed to, and DID, hurt Hillary in TWO ways and playing people who were predisposed to believe that all opposition to Hillary must be based in misogyny was one of the ways it worked.

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Fri May 26, 2017, 08:34 AM

85. More of this...

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Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Fri May 26, 2017, 08:49 AM

87. Locking...

This article is two months old, not permitted under the SOP

From the SOP of the LBN Forum:

Post the latest news from reputable mainstream news websites and blogs. Important news of national interest only. No analysis or opinion pieces. No duplicates. News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread.

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