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Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:25 PM

Dem senator: Russian hacking may have been 'act of war'

Source: The Hill

Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) on Thursday said Congress needs to consider whether Russia's cyber campaign during the U.S. presidential election was an act of war.

Shaheen made the statement during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing Thursday morning exploring the Pentagon's strategy to deter and respond to malicious acts in cyberspace.

The intelligence community released an unclassified report in January concluding that the Russian government engaged in a cyber and disinformation campaign during the election to undermine American democracy and damage Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, and had established a preference for President Trump.

"We should think about whether it is an act of war or not," Shaheen said Thursday, referring to the election hacking.

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/322002-dem-senator-we-should-determine-if-russian-election-hacking-was-act-of

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Dem senator: Russian hacking may have been 'act of war' (Original post)
n2doc Mar 2017 OP
CincyDem Mar 2017 #1
eShirl Mar 2017 #11
Marthe48 Mar 2017 #2
byronius Mar 2017 #3
bucolic_frolic Mar 2017 #4
niyad Mar 2017 #5
ffr Mar 2017 #6
former9thward Mar 2017 #35
ffr Mar 2017 #38
former9thward Mar 2017 #42
aquamarina Mar 2017 #7
Kingofalldems Mar 2017 #8
JTFrog Mar 2017 #10
Plucketeer Mar 2017 #13
LiberalLovinLug Mar 2017 #16
BadgerMom Mar 2017 #20
Doreen Mar 2017 #9
FakeNoose Mar 2017 #12
Plucketeer Mar 2017 #15
JudyM Mar 2017 #37
calimary Mar 2017 #39
Mr. Ected Mar 2017 #14
msongs Mar 2017 #17
gopiscrap Mar 2017 #18
LiberalLovinLug Mar 2017 #19
More_Cowbell Mar 2017 #21
malthaussen Mar 2017 #22
Ligyron Mar 2017 #30
malthaussen Mar 2017 #31
Ligyron Mar 2017 #32
LanternWaste Mar 2017 #36
tblue37 Mar 2017 #23
tclambert Mar 2017 #24
Initech Mar 2017 #25
marybourg Mar 2017 #26
Bozvotros Mar 2017 #27
malthaussen Mar 2017 #33
NBachers Mar 2017 #28
malthaussen Mar 2017 #34
ananda Mar 2017 #29
kimbutgar Mar 2017 #40
onenote Mar 2017 #41
Bucky Mar 2017 #43

Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:27 PM

1. IIRC, there's a Sun Tzu comment about the best way to win a battle...



...is to act in darkness and succeed before your enemy even knows he is in a battle.

Kinda feels like that.

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:47 PM

11. this

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:28 PM

2. Thank you for defending your country!

Here is an elected official upholding her sworn oath to defend the Constitution! Thank you!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:29 PM

3. Ding ding ding.

Winner.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:32 PM

4. Obama stopped short of that in April

but we know so much more now. Espionage by a hostile foreign power.

This needs to go big time, now. If we don't do it now we could live
for decades under foreign ownership.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:36 PM

5. k and r

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:36 PM

6. Ha-ha! I'm waiting for the DU jury to call out Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.)

I'm with her.

I'm for protecting our republic from all adversaries, both foreign and domestic.

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Response to ffr (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 04:51 PM

35. So you wish to have a nuclear war?

How many hundreds of millions of deaths will satisfy your wish of "protecting our republic from all adversaries, both foreign and domestic"?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 05:15 PM

38. Doesn't dignify an answer. What is your question as it relates to what I said?

eom

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Response to ffr (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 08:01 PM

42. Doesn't didnify an answer because you have none

If something is an act of war then you go to war. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen's statement was irresponsible. I will go with President Obama who said last night that "this is nothing new. Russia has been doing this stuff since the end of WW II when it was the Soviet Union".

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:39 PM

7. This is more like it.

This is exactly what it was and it's time to start calling it that.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:44 PM

8. Which makes it treason---for all the 'it wasn't treason' people.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:47 PM

10. Indeed. nt

 

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:04 PM

13. I couldn't agree more!

 

We've been had by theirs and ours.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:11 PM

16. Damn right

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:30 PM

20. Treason

That was my first thought upon reading this. The stakes for Trump would rise significantly.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 01:47 PM

9. I have thought it was an act of war from the beginning.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:01 PM

12. Treason

Every Republican who colluded with the Russians is guilty of treason. Do not let them wiggle out of this. Trump should be impeached, tried and convicted if he's in on this. It sincerely looks like he is.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:08 PM

15. Every Republican

 

who has dismissed the allegations or tried to impede them should be tossed from office. They are (heh - technically) employees of their constituents.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 05:03 PM

37. Step right up, Mitch McConnell.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 05:47 PM

39. Welcome to DU, FakeNoose!

Well, we have to look at what we know.

What do we know?

Umpteen different campaign friends and colleagues had Russian and Russian-related contacts or involvements. There's Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon, Carter Page, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, and now our new Attorney General Jeff Sessions too (Cory Booker was just interviewed by Kate Snow on MSNBC, and said Sessions was already being investigated for this shit, AND was one of many names on a list of trump campaign officials being investigated), and those are just the names we know about. There's also Wilbur Ross, our new Commerce Secretary who's also been known as the #2 executive at the Bank of Cyprus, Russian oligarchs' and strongmen's favorite place to launder money.

Plus family: Didn't Donnie Junior say in an interview a few years back that there was a tremendous amount of money coming in from Russia? Isn't Ivanka Trump close personal friends with Wendi Deng Murdoch (Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife) who is currently Vladimir Putin's girlfriend? And there's Ivanka's husband, Jared Kushner, his meetings (as senior trump advisor) with Russian ambassador and envoy people, and his real estate deals with Russian-connected investors...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/2/17/1635092/-Follow-the-Money-Wilbur-Kushner-Cadre-and-Russia

Btw - in the link you also learn that Jared Kushner also has never released his tax returns.

And if you just start looking around, you'll come upon numerous articles referencing how he's had so many bankruptcies that American banks don't want to lend him money anymore. Hence he had to go overseas to look for funding and where he found it was with the Russians. Knowing his needy, narcissistic, celebrity-chasing, social-climbing nature, you've GOT TO know that when he set up the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow, he would be insisting on meeting Vladimir Putin. He always wants to be seen with three kinds of people: people who count, people who flatter, and people who are decorative. Seems to me there'd be NO WAY he'd do anything that big in Russia without it including hob-knobbing with the leader of Russia. Bragging rights are important, dontchaknow?

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:07 PM

14. This would be the legal connecting tissue to treason

I think it's a long shot, but one that has to be considered and adjudicated.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:20 PM

17. thanks senator. that's how to do it - put the statement out there and let repubs defend themselves n

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:26 PM

18. I agree every repug should be tried for treason

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:26 PM

19. ...

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:31 PM

21. This is what I keep wondering, re: treason

People keep saying we weren't at war. But we WERE; we just didn't know it. Can people get out of a charge of treason by acting in collusion with a country that hasn't technically announced it's at war with us?

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:42 PM

22. Legally, what constitutes an "act of war?"

When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, that was an act of war. And we haven't legally been "at war" since. All the craven Congressional pussyfooting around Authorized Use of Force and such does not clarify the position. Espionage, yeah. But even if, mirabile dictu, we declared war on Russia, collusion before the state of war existed would not constitute
"aid and comfort" to an "enemy."

But of course, "treason" and "acts of war" are whatever you think you have the leverage to get away with.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:22 PM

30. "Germans bombed Pearl Harbor"?

Maybe I'm dense but I don't get the joke.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:23 PM

31. A reference to the film "Animal House."



-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:30 PM

32. Oh yeah, nosw I get it.

Duhhh.

Thanks Malt.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 04:54 PM

36. an action by one country against another with an intention to provoke...

An act of war is (legally defined as) an action by one country against another with an intention to provoke a war OR an action that occurs during a declared war OR armed conflict between military forces of any origin.

Leon Panetta stated the Shamoon prog (the virus that wiped data from 30,000+ computers at Saudi Arabia’s state-owned oil company) affecting business operations for two weeks fitted well within the given parameters of the definition, even though it was not an armed attack.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:43 PM

23. And if it is acknowledged as an act of war, those who colluded with the Russians should

be considered traitors.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:55 PM

24. Tu-tu-tu-tu-tu-tu-tut. Forget about Russia. Iran tested a missile. And they fired on a US Navy ship.

Or, you know, Yemeni rebels fired on a Saudi ship, basically the same thing. So that's where our next war should be.

(If we go to war with Iran, what happens to oil prices? They go up HOW high? I bet Putin's "friends" in the oil industry would love that. Hey, isn't one of his oil friends now US Secretary of State? Huh.)

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:56 PM

25. I've been saying this since the election!

If we get out of this, we need to declare a full embargo on Russia. I will accept nothing less than that.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 02:58 PM

26. War on the Democrats.

With the collusion of the publicans.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:01 PM

27. Sorry, that's a non starter

If you think we haven't been monkeying around in nefarious ways in cyberspace with the Russians and Iranians and North Koreans and __________(your country's name here) you have another think coming. Watch "Zero Days" and then get back to me.

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Response to Bozvotros (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:38 PM

33. Nah, it's not a non-starter.

It wouldn't be the first time we've held ourselves to a different standard than others. If people who can do something with it think they have enough leverage, they'll call it what they please.

-- Mal

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:14 PM

28. "Espionage" is a stronger word than "hacking," and it points more towards War.

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Response to NBachers (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:40 PM

34. Exactly.

This "treason" stuff is so unnecessary. Espionage is so much easier to prove, too, both technically and in point of fact.

-- Mal

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 03:16 PM

29. Treason

..

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 07:26 PM

40. Oh hell yes it was

They interfered in our countries election to install their puppet. Chump is dirty dirty dirty as is his administration figures.

We really need a new election and do over the presidency, house and senate because of Russian hacking.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Thu Mar 2, 2017, 07:38 PM

41. Is Shaheen calling for the US to terminate diplomatic relations with Russia?

Is she calling for Russia to be named as an enemy for purposes of the trading with the enemies act.

Is she suggesting that the quarter million US tourists and business people who will visit Russia this year be locked up if they do so?

Is she going to introduce a formal declaration of war against Russia and demand our NATO allies do the same?

I don't think so. John McCain declared that it was an act of war when North Korea hacked Sony pictures. Empty words.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Fri Mar 3, 2017, 07:55 PM

43. How many elections has the United States hacked around the world?

Mostly it was counterhacking Soviet election hacking, but we ain't virgins here.

Anyway, this was espionage and it was damned effective. But it wasn't actually an act of war.

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