Lindsey Graham: 'It's Really American' To Avoid Taxes Like Mitt Romney Does

[kpete]

Source: Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney shouldn't be criticized for using off-shore tax havens because "it's really American to avoid paying taxes, legally," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said Tuesday.

The presumptive GOP presidential nominee has come under fire for stashing assets overseas in places like Bermuda and Switzerland.

Graham argued that Congress is responsible for tax avoidance because it has crafted such convoluted rules and said he was fine with Romney's taking advantage of the loopholes.

...........................

"It's a game we play," Graham said. "Every American tries to find the way to get the most deductions they can. I see nothing wrong with playing the game because we set it up to be a game."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/lindsey-graham-taxes-really-american-mitt-romney_n_1662939.html

[byeya]

1. It's really American to avoid South Carolina

a failed state for 150 years

[nanabugg]

40. Yes, Lindsay, it is "American." But it is also "unpatriotic."

If you don't want to pay for the country you claim that you love (and the people are the country), then go live in the country that you pay for.

[blm]

2. Because that's why we send our military overseas to fight and die for us, so we can avoid paying

our fair share of taxes that would go to support the military, its missions, their families, veterans and their healthcare.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Oh goody! Can I play?

[smirkymonkey]

23. Gee, I thought it was mandatory. Now that I know that it's just a game

I'm IN!! This will be so much fun!

[chemenger]

65. If its just a game then I think I'll just take my ball and go home.

Its no fun when you're always on the losing team.

[Roy Rolling]

4. Translation:

Crooks in Congress made laws with loopholes that could be circumvented by self-serving and crafty people. The president should be the person who is most adept at being self-serving and exploiting the government for personal gain.

[24601]

75. I reviewed several prominent tax returns posted, included Romney, Obama & Biden. All three

itemized deductions when they could have legally chosen higher taxes by opting to use the standard deduction.

Once you get past the desire to use the tax code to benefit yourself and/or control how your earnings are spent, the rest is just a matter of degree.

If Warren Buffet & Bill Gates chose the standard deduction, they could still make charitable deductions, it's just that their taxes wouldn't be reduced.

You can consider deducting mortgage interest as a "loophole" of you want - as can anything deducted on Schedule A.

[SDjack]

5. They hate us for our freedoms. Our freedoms to play our games -- the games

that Congress set up for us to play. (Thanks, Lindsey. I understand it a little better now.)

[tanyev]

6. Wait, I thought it was uniquely American to work three jobs. Lindsey must have meant Amercian.

[neeksgeek]

7. Unless, of course...

The loophole you use is the Earned Income Tax Credit. If you take advantage of that loophole, you're a deadbeat living off somebody else's money.

[Enrique]

8. nice stenography from the Huffington Post

I was going to ask, "who asked Lindsey Graham?" but apparently Michael McAuliff did for some reason.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

9. And that's why we are in danger

of becoming Greece where tax avoidance is a national pass time.

[Igel]

24. That would be "tax evasion.'

They're into tax avoidance, too, but avoidance is legal. Evasion is often in the form of "black market."

[Swede Atlanta]

10. No, Lindsay....it isn't

Recognizing the benefit you have gotten from our laws, economic system, infrastructure, etc. in creating wealth, one should want to, beg to, contribute to us in the form of taxes.

The fact there is a legal loophole, even if that loophole or subsidy (billions to the energy sector comes to mind) doesn't mean it is American to actually use that loophole or strategize to use that loophole.

Mittens has no morals. He talks about morality...let's see terrorizing a gay student, traumatizing a teacher, posing as a state trooper, pillaging and raping American companies, abusing Seamus, etc. those are not morals.

May the high grand poo-ba of the Mormon Church can explain how these behaviors are moral. I don't believe they care as long as Mittens is giving millions to them for denying others basic rights (Prop 8 in California) and subjugating their members. Do as I say even if I am an asshole.

[randome]

20. Sorry, he's right.

You cannot shame corporations into doing better and you cannot shame the rich into doing better.

Common-sense regulations and financial laws are the responsibility of Congress. They have failed in their responsibilities for a long time.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Maybe we can't shame Romney into doing better; but we can say "don't elect him"

and that's the point of the criticism. Graham is pretending that Romney's "I've got mine, fuck you" attitude is not relevant to the election.

[meow2u3]

45. Barely legal doesn't cut it when you're running for President

Rmoney has to be held to a higher moral standard than just barely legal. He does not pass muster, to say the least.

[Siwsan]

11. Perhaps it's time for the IRS to take a look at Lindsey's returns

He sounds pretty shifty, to me.

[Angry Dragon]

53. He sounds pretty shitty to me

[handmade34]

12. excuse my language...

Asshole!! it's only game if you can afford to play

we are in serious trouble if the masses of people don't start wising up

[maindawg]

13. some of the greatest Americans were scoflaws

and still are. Rich people and corporations would rather hire 24 lawyers than pay taxes.Regular folks just pay up and move on. Which is a greater American ?The guy who works 40 hours,and pays his taxes, or the vultures who prey upon that guy and pay nothing ? Linsey Graham is a douchbag .

[quakerboy]

14. I assume then, that Mr Graham

Fully supports and will defend those extremely lower income persons who may not have to pay any taxes or who may even get more money back than was deducted from their paychecks?

[MissMillie]

15. So let's make it un-American

I really don't know how the GOP expects the rest of the 1% to "stimulate growth" and add jobs with more tax cuts when their new standard-bearer doesn't do it.

I can see the Romney bumper sticker now--"Do as I say, not as I do"

[Judi Lynn]

16. That's REALLY reaching, isn't it? "It's a game we play." Speak for yourself, dipstick.

Really sounds noble, coming from an elected official, doesn't it?

Words of wisdom from another Republican chinless wonder.

[center][/center]

[yellowcanine]

19. Looks as if Lindsey is chunking up a bit.

Getting a little jowly.

[wordpix]

38. he's a fat cat, what do you expect?

[siligut]

17. Keep letting him talk . . . he is just making it worse.

Maybe a few in the 1% think of it as a game, the rest of us think of it as our duty and obligation.

[judesedit]

47. Well put in few words.

Thanks.

[yellowcanine]

18. It is really American to ignore Lindsey Graham.

[McCamy Taylor]

21. It is really American to treat someone's life as a game?

Because every time Bain buys a company and then lays everyone off, lives suffer.

[Qutzupalotl]

22. It's unpatriotic, Lindsey.

And that goes double for all the "starve the beast" cretins like Norquist.

[complain jane]

25. Asshat.

I can't even put together a response to this.

[fujiyama]

26. Sadly there's some truth in what he's saying

I think there are few other countries (especially developed) where people complain so much about paying their price for a (somewhat) civilized society. This is due in part to a number of factors - from the formation of the republic itself (a split from GB based in part on taxation), to Thoreau, all the way to the modern corporate/GOP brainwashing of the last 30 years.

I also doubt there are nearly as many countries with as ridiculously complicated a tax code as our own, much of it filled with deductions (better known as loopholes) for whichever special interest group is the flavor of the year (or of the party in power).

Another problem is few feel like they see the results the taxes we pay. Our infrastructure is crumbling, we have no universal healthcare, and we constantly hear stories about failing schools, and how the "private sector is soooo much more efficient than the government". Now, granted much of this is propaganda, but that propaganda has had a very strong effect on a large percentage of the people. The sad thing is that people (upper middle class earners down) are now convinced by the likes of Wall Street Journal editorial writers and Michelle Bachmann and the entire GOP establishment that the poor are "lucky duckies".

And yet, if you're poor and don't necessarily hear the rhetoric, you still feel like you're paying way too much. You see your money going to FICA, unemployment, sales taxes, increased rent, utilities, gas prices, and other fees and expenses. Let's not even talk about the rise medical care and college. That's just funny money at that point.

So in the end, we pay a lot - not necessarily in federal taxes per se, but between those taxes and everything else, well...it is American to hate paying taxes. The problem is of course, it's set up for people like Romney, and not only is it in their interest to fight for the status quo, but shift the burden even more.

[high density]

27. "We play"

I take the standard deduction, so I guess I am out of the "we."

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

28. I have a problem with this attitude from a lawmaker

I can understand an investor cheering the fact that he can and does use every accountant's trick to avoid taxes. But this shouldn't be coming from the mouth of someone who writes the laws. It shouldn't be considered a game to see how to engineer a law with as many novel loopholes a smart tax lawyer can find, especially by a guy who is responsible for voting on what goes into making these loopholes. Tax law should be written with fairness and clarity in mind, not with an aim of providing a set of "convoluted" rules that only the high priced retainers of the investor class can master. It's unseemly, coming from a lawmaker who is supposed to represent all the people of his State.

[Duer 157099]

36. Agreed.

This is *the* point.

[treestar]

60. Good point!

Absolutely. It raises a question of his fitness for office. If he has that attitude towards the law, what would his attitude be towards the making and writing of the laws?

[riderinthestorm]

74. [phone]. nt

[David__77]

29. "Tax avoidance" is legal - "tax evasion" is not.

I almost paid several hundred more than I was supposed to because I didn't exercise proper avoidance. The problem with Romney is potential criminality - not mere "avoidance."

[denvine]

30. Lindsey Graham is an ass! With Americans like him, we are doomed.

[davidpdx]

31. It is your civic duty to pay taxes

Yet the rich seem to try to evade that and call themselves "patriotic Americans" just how the f- does that work Lindsey?

Here is what we should do:

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. It's not a question of whether it's illegal; it's whether it's moral

and criticism is highly justified. I wish the electors of South Carolina would consider this display of amorality the next time Graham comes up for re-election, but I fear they won't. The idea of electing a president is not just finding someone who hasn't broken laws; it's to find a good person, however you personally define that. Some might resort to the seven deadly sins and 'greed' for some help.

[Smilo]

34. It would appear that morality is

not in the Good Books these men (no they are not gentlemen) read.

Morality and ethics - have been scrubbed from the GOP lexicon.

[raccoon]

35. He embarrassed me once again, for being a senator from my state. nt

[wordpix]

37. OMG, Gomer speaks the truth! Now THERE's an ad for Obama, "Not a level playing field"

I can't believe Gomer Graham just up and told the truth.

And how did Graham vote in this game with the deck stacked in favor of the 1%?

[cstanleytech]

39. Claiming deductions is one thing, hiding assets is another thing though.

[NRaleighLiberal]

41. wow - we've not heard from Mr Rogers in some time (with apologies to the real Mr Rogers)

[Mz Pip]

42. Most people can't

I can only imagine the bevy of tax lawyers and accountants t Mitwit's beck and call who are privy to all the ins and outs and loopholes that exist in our gazillion page tax code.

That's what rich people get to do to the detriment of the rest of us.

[progressivebydesign]

43. Umm.. word to Graham.. MOST of your RNC voters don't make enough to take deductions..

this will not play well with your "common people."

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. Okay, so Romney is playing games with his taxes

That sounds like an EXCELLENT thing to use on his campaign.

I swear,...they used to at least TRY and think things through....

[judesedit]

46. Yeah. If you're an unpatriotic American who cares little about this country or anyone in it....

except yourself. But, if you think about it, some of these people don't even care about their own parents or children. It's all about the $$$$$$$ they can shove in their own pockets and how fast they can do it. Who cares about the country's infrastructure, the water we drink, the food we eat, the pharmaceuticals we take, the air we breathe. Not them. Just give them the $$$$$$$$ NOW! Who cares if the middle and lower class have to pick up their slack because they don't want to pay their fair share. Fire the policemen, the firemen, the teachers. Make nurses work 14 hours shifts. Who cares how unsafe for them or their patients. I want to see THEM fired. The almighty GOP scum that call themselves "representatives" of this country. Get these creepy bastards OUT of Congress. It's OUR Congress. They are supposed to be SERVANTS of the people. They are nobody without us. They are parasites leaching off our tax dollars while they waste our precious time and money voting on bullshit. They want to keep us dumb, unprotected, and broke. That way we won't know that what they are telling is lies, we won't be able to do anything about it and we'll be too poor to donate to their opposition...in this case it's PREZ OBAMA! They hate having a human being in the White House. Go to whitehouse.gov and give $1.00, $5.00 or whatever you can afford. We can't let these hateful, selfish, egomaniacs go any further. It's time to get busy and take this country back, folks! Stand up and be counted. Be patriotic!

[enki23]

48. It really is American to rob banks too. What the fuck is your point, asshole?

[Betsy Ross]

49. I guess I'm unAmerican.

I'm quite sure that if I put the time into it I could come up with more deductions every year, but I don't. And I can't remember ever complaining about the taxes I pay. Complain about those who should but don't.

[mercymechap]

50. They are pathetic low lifes!

They complain that Obama won't show his college transcripts, but think it's okay for Romney to fail to include his Swiss bank account, his Cayman account and other offshore accounts on his "ethics" form required for presidential candidates. What scumbags.

[Angry Dragon]

51. FUCK YOU Lindsey

If you are so fucking stupid that you think paying taxes is a game and you find this funny you have no business being in Congress ......... you and your party can go to hell

[Frustratedlady]

52. Sounds like a good ad... eom

Romney and his pals...games they play!

[kevinmc]

54. Otlaws R US way to promote breaking the law Dipshit Lindsey n/t

[truthisfreedom]

55. Not the point, Lindsey. You're purposefully deflecting.

Mittens is running for president (a position he'll never achieve). His actions require full disclosure. He's hiding something. And something else. And something more.

[Citizen Worker]

56. That's most certainly true for the class Graham and most of congress belong to but not the class I

belong to.

[BE10sCoach]

57. Lindsey

is a first class jerk. Don't know how he keeps getting re-elected, OH WAIT, IT'S SOUTH CAROLINA,isn't it.

[amuse bouche]

58. Myth Romney

loves free stuff. What a leech

[sinkingfeeling]

59. I guess that means it's really American to be totally against the country. Nice

'patriotism' Lindsey.

[and-justice-for-all]

61. What a fucker!

Its one thing to get the most deductions as you can, it is entirely something else to park your money in offshore accounts to AVOID paying taxes. By doing so, it shows ones lack of support for the very country that allowed him to garner that wealth; Buffett does not seem to mind paying his taxes.

What such things show us is that the rich bastards do not care about the country as a whole, they are only concerned with themselves and think of themselves as above the rest and do not feel they need to contribute to society as a whole. "I got mine, fuck you all!!!" is their motto.

[MrMickeysMom]

62. What blood suckers...

The blood gets sucked out of Americans so people like Romney and Lindsey Graham can live and lie another day.

What a save, Mr. South Carolina!

[Canuckistanian]

63. I'm sure the IRS is on board with this opinion

They love games people play with tax avoidance.

[SammyWinstonJack]

64. WTF is he blathering on about?

What utter bullshit!

[sarcasmo]

66. I guess Lindsey doesn't want to run for President.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

67. OMG! Yes, a game for the filthy rich!

[hatrack]

68. Well, fuck, let's just give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom since he's so "really American"

[midnight]

69. This "Game" the elite plays disenfranchises the working people who pay for this "Game".

[TeeYiYi]

70. re: "It's a game we play" ...

Time to shine a light on LG's tax returns...

TYY

[justiceischeap]

71. It may be "American" for the 1% but not so much for me

or the people I know. There are no loopholes for the "common" folk.

That said, Graham has pretty much summed up the repub party with that statement.

[lonestarnot]

72. One un-American to all other un-Americans.

[riderinthestorm]

73. Oh yes, every American looks at tax time as just a "game", doing your taxes is fun doncha know

Most Americans just can't WAIT to get into this "game" and conquer the world's most complicated and ridiculous tax code in order to "win" the most deductions they can!

Isn't that how all of YOU fellow DUers approach tax time? Rubbing your hands together and chortling as you jump into the "game" in your fun quest for all those poor and middle class tax loopholes.....

[geckosfeet]

76. If it's a game, the playing field is tilted very heavily in favor of the rich.

[orpupilofnature57]

77. You & Mitch Marbles in my mouth , yearn for

antebellum ,you can tell when you talk or vote.

[amfortas the hippie]

78. With crap like this

coming out of "conservative" mouths so regularly, of late...why is it so difficult to attach words like ;"scofflaw", "Tax Cheat". or "Freeloader"...or "Welfare Queen"...to these "people"?
After hearing, for the 100000th time, from my "Conservative" "friends" on Facebook...about how all the Poor are Lazy...and cracksmoking whores, sucking up Taxpayer Dollars...because they don't wanna work (!!!)...
(I'm sure y'all know what I'm referring to,lol)
After the last straw...I did a little "investigative Muckraking" of my own. I spent 6 hours, online and on the phone, trying to find the Evidence for such "widespread welfare fraud&quot sic).
Here's the result: (http://amfortasthehippie.blogspot.com/2012/06/search-for-elusive-welfare-queen.html)

The numbers on individuals(if there are any) are lumped in with Fraud by Pfizer, and 2 guys with a truck delivering Medical Equipment. I could find Zero evidence(save 6!individuals) of Individual Welfare fraud....and those 6 people in jail in Texas for "Welfare Fraud"....it is unknown if they were the Proverbial "Welfare Queens", or Businesspeople who got caught screwing the Taxpayer.
Why isn't this Challenging of Mythology on Democratic Lips, Nationwide?
This Myth was surprisingly Easy to tear down to ground level.