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Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:41 PM

 

Here We Go Again: Language In Trump Jr.'s RNC Speech Lifted From Article

Source: Talking Points memo

Donald Trump Jr. appears to have followed in his stepmother Melania Trump's footsteps and gave a prime-time Republican National Convention speech that lifted some language from a magazine article.

The Daily Show pointed out that a few lines from Trump Jr.'s speech on night two of the convention closely matched a passage from a piece written by F. H. Buckley and published in The American Conservative in May.

Our schools used to be an elevator to the middle class. Now they're stalled on the ground floor. They're like Soviet-era department stores that are run for the benefit of the clerks and not the customers, for the teachers and administrators and not the students.

And here is the paragraph from the original American Conservative piece:

What should be an elevator to the upper class is stalled on the ground floor. Part of the fault for this may be laid at the feet of the systemís entrenched interests: the teachersí unions and the higher-education professoriate. Our schools and universities are like the old Soviet department stores whose mission was to serve the interests of the sales clerks and not the customers.


Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-jr-rnc-speech-lifted-language-too



I'm shocked, shocked that this sociopathic nepotism halfwit would be as intellectually lazy as his mail-order bride step-mom

43 replies, 3965 views

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Here We Go Again: Language In Trump Jr.'s RNC Speech Lifted From Article (Original post)
Adenoid_Hynkel Jul 2016 OP
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2016 #1
mercuryblues Jul 2016 #2
Stonepounder Jul 2016 #3
teach1st Jul 2016 #4
yardwork Jul 2016 #19
uawchild Jul 2016 #30
yardwork Jul 2016 #39
uawchild Jul 2016 #40
BlueStreak Jul 2016 #5
SheriffBob Jul 2016 #6
bjobotts Jul 2016 #7
oberliner Jul 2016 #9
yardwork Jul 2016 #20
oberliner Jul 2016 #22
yardwork Jul 2016 #27
oberliner Jul 2016 #29
yardwork Jul 2016 #38
uawchild Jul 2016 #31
yardwork Jul 2016 #37
Hugin Jul 2016 #8
oberliner Jul 2016 #10
Hugin Jul 2016 #12
jayfish Jul 2016 #13
citizen blues Jul 2016 #14
yardwork Jul 2016 #21
citizen blues Jul 2016 #33
yardwork Jul 2016 #35
Wellstone ruled Jul 2016 #11
BumRushDaShow Jul 2016 #15
Wellstone ruled Jul 2016 #41
uawchild Jul 2016 #32
Wellstone ruled Jul 2016 #42
bucolic_frolic Jul 2016 #16
jpak Jul 2016 #24
surrealAmerican Jul 2016 #17
deminks Jul 2016 #18
yardwork Jul 2016 #28
uawchild Jul 2016 #34
yardwork Jul 2016 #36
jpak Jul 2016 #23
cstanleytech Jul 2016 #25
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #26
Thinkingabout Jul 2016 #43

Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:44 PM

1. They are entitled to lift shit at will.

They are a horseshit no good lousy family

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:51 PM

2. fuck them

I can't wait for their TrumpuPence.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:57 PM

3. According to the original author, F. H. Buckley,

he was a principal writer for Trump Jr's speech, so it isn't really plagiarism, it is merely a reworking of something that he (Buckley) originally wrote.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:58 PM

4. "Except that it wasn't stealing," Tweets Buckley

At the link:

"I was a principal speechwriter for the speech. So it's not an issue," Buckley said in an email to TPM.

https://twitter.com/fbuckley/status/755604499977363456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

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Response to teach1st (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:29 AM

19. Except that it means that the concept of intellectual property and responsibility means nothing.

They don't even have a concept that the person reading the speech might be considered responsible for what they're saying.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:10 AM

30. What?

The same writer, apparently, wrote BOTH speeches.

Speech writers are the norm, so I miss the point you are trying to make.

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Response to uawchild (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:47 AM

39. I've explained it over and over in this thread, as have others.

I'll summarize like this - if the speechwriter's ideas are all that is important, why didn't they send the speechwriter out to give the speech? Clearly, Trump Jr's ideas had no bearing on what he said.

They might as well have had an empty chair read the speech.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:54 AM

40. You are taking issue with what is the norm

This also has been pointed out repeatedly. the norm is politicians use speech writers, they claim to give input to these speech writers and claim they make final edits.

It seems like a tempest in a teapot, honestly.

But we can agree to disagree. Thank you for your replies.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:12 AM

5. Trump = Fraud. And where is his tax return?

 

The guy is probably in hock up to his eyeballs.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:15 AM

6. Why give the punk credit then?

Ghost writers in the sky.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:19 AM

7. Definitely lifted this as mention of soviet union and deprt stores is just not a coincidence

 

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Response to bjobotts (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:30 AM

9. The author of the article was also the author of the speech

 

FH Buckley is a speech writer for Team Trump.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:29 AM

20. That makes it worse.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:35 AM

22. No it doesn't

 

It means that there was no plagiarism.

He just repeated some of the same themes from his article in the speech.

The same writer.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:57 AM

27. The writer didn't give the speech! It's admitting that Trump Jr. simply read a script!

Did Trump Jr. stand up and say, "In the words of my father's speechwriter, Joe Blow, who wrote these words I'm about to read...." No he did not. Trump Jr. stood up and gave a speech that purported to reflect his own thoughts and beliefs.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:05 AM

29. They all have speechwriters

 

And they coordinate with those speechwriters to make sure the words being written match up with the perspective of the speech giver - just more artfully written.

This is standard practice in politics.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:42 AM

38. And they failed big time here, because it's now obvious that this speech is all about the writer.

The writer's ideas, not Trump Jr's ideas, so what role did Trump Jr have - a robot reading somebody else's script?

Might as well have been an empty chair.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:11 AM

31. How?

Please explain yourself. Speech writers are the norm in politics.

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Response to uawchild (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:41 AM

37. If the speechwriter is calling attention to their own ideas and words, they've failed.

The job of a speechwriter is to take the speaker's own ideas, thoughts, and beliefs and create a seamless presentation. The speaker is not supposed to be a robot simply reading somebody's else's ideas.

This episode makes it clear that Trump Jr. didn't have any part in the content of the speech. Rather, the speech represents the ideas and beliefs of the speechwriter - who is not the one at the podium.

See post #33 in this thread, which explains it well.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:28 AM

8. Oh, the irony of a plagiarised article about education.

I'm sure they will use the affluenza excuse to wave it off. The same as "mommy".

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Response to Hugin (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:31 AM

10. Not plagiarized

 

Same writer of both.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:41 AM

12. Was that fact widely and openly acknowledged in advance?

The irony deepens.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:58 AM

13. The American Conservative Might Have Something to Say About That

I'm sure Mr. Buckley didn't give the piece to them for free.

ON EDIT: I'm sure they will provide cover for him though.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 02:22 AM

14. In academia, you can plagerize your own earlier work...

If you re quoting something you wrote earlier, you still need to reference it. This is especially true with research articles, so I'm not completely convinced that it was not plagerism.

A) He clearly should have referenced the earlier work. It was very sloppy of him not to.

B) After the fiasco the night before, it would have been wise to be extra careful unless he was actually trying to divert attention away from Melania.

C) it still looks bad that he put prior work in this speech. It makes him look too lazy or otherwise lacking to be original or take a new approach.

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Response to citizen blues (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:30 AM

21. The speechwriter didn't give the speech!

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Response to yardwork (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:14 AM

33. Which makes it even worse!

By putting the words in someone else's mouth, he's making it appear that they are someone else's words. His job was to make it look like those are the speaker's own words. He was trusted to deliver a decent speech. Instead he created an unnecessary controversy and made the speaker look like an ass! (Which, admittedly, was not hard to do.)

If it has to be explained how this is NOT plagiarism, he fucked up! Simple as that!

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Response to citizen blues (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:36 AM

35. This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why some don't get this.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:35 AM

11. This whole darn RNC thing is

 

just another Trump Reality TV show. And the Family Actors are just reading their scripts. Noticed the use of special lighting and certain Actors the camera angles are predetermined . So friggin phony.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 06:32 AM

15. ^^^ THIS ^^^

Add to this that he even appointed one of his former reality show contestants (Omarosa Manigault) as his "African American Outreach' director.

It's like Occam's razor or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes utterance - "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

The sad thing is that the media allowed this to happen and in fact, enabled it. This campaign has made a mockery out of the U.S. Presidential election process.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:57 AM

41. And the so called Networks

 

eating this garbage up big time. The real glaring think is this all our name calling and race baiting. One has to realize these themes and talking points have been in every news broadcast and newspaper columns for the last two years. So much for the so called Independent Press.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:12 AM

32. Welcome to the world of politics

What you describe is simply the norm.

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Response to uawchild (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 11:00 AM

42. The Norm started with

 

the 2008 campaign season. Each camp used stealth phrases to attack their opponents and now we are seeing what can and will happen if no one is held accountable for their lies and false narratives.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 06:51 AM

16. It's a Cut-and-Paste Campaign

Hopefully the American voters will recognize it as such

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:42 AM

24. A Cut-andPaste Fact Free Campaign

yup

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 07:18 AM

17. Has Trump Jr. ever been inside a public school?

It sounds to me like he's reading a speech about something he knows nothing about.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 07:27 AM

18. So, drumpfenspawn could not have plagerized his speech

'cause he didn't write it? So all those accolades for being heartfelt and authentic are misled? Seems he is between a rock and a hard place here.


And the speechifier had to use his own quotes about schools 'cause the spawn had none?

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Response to deminks (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:58 AM

28. Exactly. This point seems to be missed.

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Response to deminks (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:15 AM

34. Speech writers are the norm

Do you really think everyone doesn't use speech writers?

Politicians claim to give input and final editing of speeches, but by and large the speeches are written by speech writers.

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Response to uawchild (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:38 AM

36. See post #33 above. The poster says it well.

The speechwriter's job is to write a speech that represents the speaker, plausibly represents the speaker's own beliefs, feelings, and thoughts.

This speechwriter fucked up. Big time.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:38 AM

23. IOKIYAAR

yup

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:46 AM

25. Makes sense, after all if you cannot come up with an original thought

you probably cannot come up with an original speech either.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:49 AM

26. The GOP afraid of education and free thinking - hmmm sounds like Turkey right now.

 

Let's round 'em up!

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:10 PM

43. The RNC and the Trump campaign will never admit wrongs, just tell more lies to cover up.

It is stand up comedy from the Trump reality show. Still have not heard about any policies, but the Lyin' RNC speakers claiming Hillary lies.

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