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Sat May 28, 2016, 09:11 AM

Pakistani men can beat wives 'lightly,' Islamic council says

Source: CNN


The leader of a Pakistani Islamic council has proposed a bill that allows husbands to "lightly beat" their wives as a form of discipline.

In the 75-page proposal, Mohammad Khan Sheerani suggests a light beating is acceptable should the need arise to punish a woman. The proposal bans forceful beating, saying only a small stick is necessary to instill fear.

The Council of Islamic Ideology is a powerful constitutional body that advises the Pakistani legislature whether laws are in line with the teachings of Islam.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/28/asia/pakistan-women-light-beating/index.html

62 replies, 4610 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pakistani men can beat wives 'lightly,' Islamic council says (Original post)
MariaThinks May 2016 OP
geek tragedy May 2016 #1
7962 May 2016 #2
truthisfreedom May 2016 #34
christx30 May 2016 #3
David__77 May 2016 #30
7962 May 2016 #47
ananda May 2016 #4
FrodosPet May 2016 #10
IronLionZion May 2016 #17
bemildred May 2016 #5
bullwinkle428 May 2016 #6
alcina May 2016 #7
oberliner May 2016 #8
MariaThinks May 2016 #24
Uponthegears May 2016 #9
alcina May 2016 #11
Bluenorthwest May 2016 #18
MariaThinks May 2016 #26
Uponthegears May 2016 #33
patsimp May 2016 #44
Uponthegears May 2016 #46
patsimp May 2016 #48
Uponthegears May 2016 #49
patsimp May 2016 #53
Uponthegears May 2016 #54
patsimp May 2016 #56
Uponthegears May 2016 #57
JustABozoOnThisBus May 2016 #12
GulfCoast66 May 2016 #50
leftynyc May 2016 #60
gregcrawford May 2016 #13
IronLionZion May 2016 #14
FailureToCommunicate May 2016 #15
MariaThinks May 2016 #25
Squinch May 2016 #37
Gregorian May 2016 #16
AlbertCat May 2016 #19
Gregorian May 2016 #45
CrispyQ May 2016 #20
niyad May 2016 #22
leftynyc May 2016 #61
niyad May 2016 #21
boomer55 May 2016 #23
no_hypocrisy May 2016 #27
valerief May 2016 #28
McCamy Taylor May 2016 #29
JudyM May 2016 #42
CanonRay May 2016 #31
keithbvadu2 May 2016 #32
romanic May 2016 #35
keithbvadu2 May 2016 #41
cali May 2016 #52
leftynyc May 2016 #62
Mendocino May 2016 #36
yurbud May 2016 #38
NobodyHere May 2016 #39
Dont call me Shirley May 2016 #40
Democat May 2016 #55
Coventina May 2016 #43
JackintheGreen May 2016 #51
yellowcanine May 2016 #58
leftynyc May 2016 #59

Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:18 AM

1. Charming country. nt

 

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:31 AM

2. So they're progressing; only a "light beating".

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #2)

Sat May 28, 2016, 05:02 PM

34. With permission. And a safe word.

How civilized.

Not.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:40 AM

3. Men discipling their wives... How creepy is that?

She's your wife. Not your child.

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Response to christx30 (Reply #3)

Sat May 28, 2016, 03:03 PM

30. I don't think it's OK for children or for spouses.

I would prefer that people recognize individuals regardless of age as self-determined.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #30)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:36 PM

47. Because NOT disciplining children always works out so well

 

Thats pretty much the reason we have so many disrespectful delinquents out there.

But the whole "official approval" of wife beating is ridiculous. Wives dont require "discipline".
And beating a child isnt proper discipline either

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:40 AM

4. Back to the cultural dark ages...

And the war on women continues apace.

I'm sure many in the USA would go there too.

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Response to ananda (Reply #4)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:22 AM

10. Yes, they WOULD, if they COULD

Fortunately our semi-secular society says they cannot.

No, not well enough, but "light beating" is not permitted or encouraged by our justice system or the majority of religious denominations.

Math. It really does mean something.

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Response to ananda (Reply #4)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:38 AM

17. When Trump promises to make America great again

and his supporters say they will make the first lady great again.

What do people think they mean by that? Surely it's not just about putting ethnic minorities in our place. They likely have grand plans for women too.



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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:43 AM

5. Backwards we go.

Why is so much of the world ruled by cretins with control issues?

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:57 AM

6. See? "Centrist" positions can be found on just about any issue!

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:05 AM

7. Just catching up with some of the Christians

http://www.christiandomesticdiscipline.com/how_to_discipline.html

First, it's important to note that "women by their peculiar sin nature resist earthly authority and trust."

Second, "when administering physical discipline, take caution not to deliver the lashes anywhere but the buttocks."

Detailed instructions are provided at the link above. Thank the lord, right?

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Response to alcina (Reply #7)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:09 AM

8. Except that link isn't a governmental organization

 

Kind of an important distinction.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Sat May 28, 2016, 02:00 PM

24. i wonder why the poster felt they needed to defend the islamic council?

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Response to alcina (Reply #7)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:16 AM

9. You missed

 

MT's point . . .

It's not about men beating women, it's about those eeeeeevil Muslims and the eeeeeevil progressives who won't hate them for what their extremists/fundamentalists believe.

Oh, just in case . . .

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #9)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:29 AM

11. Thank you for the clarificaiton, Uponthegears

I was also a little confused by a previous comment suggesting that it was a government issue rather than a religious one. Now I understand. It's a Muslim-government issue only. Got it.

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Response to alcina (Reply #11)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

18. The difference is law that says you can beat women vs law that says it's a crime to beat women

 

The list of ritualized excuses used to make the law is not at all relevant. What matters is the laws that are made.
You seem to think that the quality of the law is not important, what matters is what excuses were offered for making that law. I do not understand that at all.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #9)

Sat May 28, 2016, 02:05 PM

26. why post the truth? right?

let's keep pretending it's not happening.

and not care about the women who are currently being killed to make the proposal an improvement.

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #26)

Sat May 28, 2016, 03:36 PM

33. Pretending

 

Kinda like pretending that Christian, Jewish, Hindu (need I go on) men do not beat their wives just as readily as Muslim men when they are armed with merely tacit religious and governmental approval? (I say tacit because all religious texts share the subjugation of women as a basic tenet, our legal prohibitions are so arbitrarily and infrequently enforced that they place no real consequences on the behavior, and our "Christian" culture finds every reason possible to excuse it.)

Just admit this OP is a subterfuge for anti-Muslim hatred and move on. We all know what you are trying to get across.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #33)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:32 PM

44. Better check up on your religious understanding. Not all religous texts approve men beating up women

It seems easy to blame the messenger.

Maria posted a news article. Would you prefer news articles not to be posted?

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Response to patsimp (Reply #44)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:25 PM

46. Pay attention

 

I said subjugate, not beat. The beating comes when a religious tradition mandates male domination, as do most of the world's major religions and all of the major Western religions, and its civil institutions and practices fail to meaningfully limit it.

The messenger isn't being blamed; the religio-, and ethno-, centric anti-Islam message of hate is.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #46)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:49 PM

48. You pay attention. There are religions that put men and women as equals

islam does not. Men are allowed 4 wives, can divorce by repeating it three times, and can evidently beat them.

Show me where in Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism or even Scientology that anything like this is allowed in their scriptures. Stop trying to hide the truth.

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Response to patsimp (Reply #48)

Sun May 29, 2016, 12:08 AM

49. Curiously omitting Western religions

 

I see (to the point of including a non-religion).

That's a poor job of singling out Islam as worse than those which dominate the Western powers who wish to wage a perpetual war against A RELIGION.

Oh, btw

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Buddhism

In Hinduism women's role is to contribute to the Dharma of men

Should I keep going?

Perhaps this is why the physical abuse of women knows no boundaries

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #49)

Sun May 29, 2016, 09:32 AM

53. Do you know what Dharma means or are you just copying and pasting?

scientology is a western religion.

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Response to patsimp (Reply #53)

Sun May 29, 2016, 09:38 AM

54. Diversion

 

Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Scientology is a religion?

Well there's a debate for another day.

Dharma . . . know it or just looked it up?

Hey, that's a germane issue too.

These desperate attempts at diversion evidence just one thing. The incidence of aggressive physical violence by men against women is every bit as high in Western societies dominated by Judeo-Christian traditions as they are in Islamic countries. The same behaviors which Islamic councils openly approve are tacitly approved in the West by judicial systems designed to allow perpetrators to escape consequences, religious systems which preach male dominance, and a culture which turns a blind eye, and often cheers, males who are violent towards women. Muslim haters, cannot, and will not, discuss these simple facts.

There is no Western superiority when it comes to this issue.

Find some other reason to hate.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #54)

Sun May 29, 2016, 10:37 PM

56. Stop suppressing the truth.

The hate is being spread by those who would physically beat women as per the start of this OP.

Stop trying to deflect and stop trying to suppress the truth.

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Response to patsimp (Reply #56)

Sun May 29, 2016, 10:44 PM

57. Stop lying

 

About Judeo-Christian cultures' superiority on the issue of men's aggressive physical violence toward women.

START living in the real world where the villain is conduct, not religion.

The lives and health of millions of women living in countries dominated by Judeo Christian values are being destroyed while folks are trying to find some justification for religious hatred.

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Response to alcina (Reply #7)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:39 AM

12. My anti-virus software did not like that link very much

so I didn't continue past the warnings, and didn't look into the details of the warnings.

I must have missed Sunday school the day they talked about "women and their peculiar sin nature", or how to beat it out of them.

I'm guessing I missed that Sunday school lesson by a few centuries.

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Response to alcina (Reply #7)

Sun May 29, 2016, 01:41 AM

50. I only deliver the lashes

On the wife's buttocks when she is in the mood👹. Lay a hand on her in anger at any time and I am rightfully out the door. If not pushing up daisies. Children as well. Hitting people to control them is really slavery.

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Response to alcina (Reply #7)

Tue May 31, 2016, 09:33 AM

60. Is that backed up by the GOVERNMENT???

 

If not (and you know it's not), you're just using bullshit deflection like so many on DU feel compelled to do in order to prove Bill Maher right every single fucking day.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:45 AM

13. I'm not prejudiced...

... I despise all religions equally, and evil shit like this is the reason why. ALL the ultra-conservative fundamentalist religions are ruled by misogynistic old bastards, but the savage psychopaths that pervert the Quran to suit their diseased concept of how life oughta be are WAY out in front of that mob.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:59 AM

14. America's ally

constantly giving us excuses to feel culturally and intellectually superior to those backwards primitives.



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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:00 AM

15. "I'm Donald Trump, and I approve this message"

"...and so will my administration of chauvinist nut jobs."

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #15)

Sat May 28, 2016, 02:02 PM

25. but its not donald trumps message

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #25)

Sat May 28, 2016, 06:55 PM

37. yet.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:03 AM

16. Women: Know Your Limits!

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #16)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:59 AM

19. Women: Know Your Limits!

 

Excellent! (did you know there are people who think this is a real PS announcement!)

I like Mr. Sharp. Here is his take (well one of them) on religion.

&list=PLABEFD9D1F451F056&index=2

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #19)

Sat May 28, 2016, 11:00 PM

45. The Chuckle brothers carving a graven image

Haha. That was great.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 12:37 PM

20. I fucking hate religion. The big three are especially abhorrent.



Man created God to control woman.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #20)

Sat May 28, 2016, 12:51 PM

22. you are, sadly, quite correct.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #20)

Tue May 31, 2016, 09:36 AM

61. Which big three would

 

those be? How are you determining how BIG a religion is?

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 12:50 PM

21. sadly, there is no real difference between that woman crap and the common-law "rule of

thumb" (the stick with which you beat her cannot be wider than your thumb) and all the "wives shall be submissive to their husbands" crap of the other abrahamic belief systems. do we need to cite domestic violence stats here? or rape stats? and how many xians and domionists and other woman-haters in legislative power here?

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 12:59 PM

23. I think were drone striking the wrong people.

 

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 02:13 PM

27. Resurrection of The Rule of Thumb

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 02:16 PM

28. Fuckin' religion. nt

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 02:23 PM

29. The need? Men feel less than manly, have to take out their frustration where they can.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #29)

Sat May 28, 2016, 08:00 PM

42. Can't be questioned. Fear of emasculation.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 03:26 PM

31. Congratulations, you have now reached early 13th century civilization

Took 'em a long time to get out of the 12th.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 03:35 PM

32. We have Christians in America who teach how to beat babies.

We have Christians in America who teach how to beat babies.

These must be some lovely people (sarcasm).

Beating Babies in the Name of Jesus? The Shady World of Right-Wing 'Discipline' Guides

http://www.alternet.org/story/153006/beating_babies_in_the_name_of_jesus_the_shady_world_of_right-wing_'discipline'_guides

They even recommend what type of plumbing tubing to use.

----------------------------

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/05/18/this-christian-is-selling-child-beating-sticks-but-he-doesnt-want-the-internet-to-find-out/

This Christian is Selling Child-Beating Sticks (But He Doesn’t Want the Internet to Find Out)

(easily fits in a ...diaper bag).

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #32)

Sat May 28, 2016, 05:34 PM

35. Are these links issued by a government body though?

That's the difference here, these Islamic theocracies are the ones issuing these kind of horrid "lessons" to their male citizens. Again, if there is a Christian, Jewish, Hindu, whatever-religion majority country out there telling husbands to lightly beat their wife, let me know.

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Response to romanic (Reply #35)

Sat May 28, 2016, 07:03 PM

41. Not to worry.......

There are plenty of Christians who want our gov't run by Christianity.

Most are going to be very disappointed because it won't be their version in charge.

If it was this version of Christianity, expect the edict.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #41)

Sun May 29, 2016, 04:47 AM

52. But they don't. So sick of false equivalency

 

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #32)

Tue May 31, 2016, 09:38 AM

62. Are they backed by the GOVERNMENT?

 

If not (and you know they're not), you're just using bullshit deflection.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 05:57 PM

36. Sean Connery would approve.

n/t

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 06:57 PM

38. Republicans say Pakistan is going soft in war on women

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 07:00 PM

39. The religion of peace everyone

 

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 07:02 PM

40. This is where the xtian fundys want to take American women. Property. Beatings. Slaves.

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Response to Dont call me Shirley (Reply #40)

Sun May 29, 2016, 10:02 AM

55. And yet many on DU think these right wingers are great

As long as they aren't Christians, there are plenty of people on DU who will defend or minimize right wing extremists.

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 09:39 PM

43. Can we call Pakistan a failed state now?

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Sun May 29, 2016, 02:31 AM

51. This is not Pakistani law

Leave it to CNN -- and the OP -- to largely elide the fact that this "proclamation" is a response to the February passage in the Punjabi general assembly of the Protection of Women Against Violence Act.

Though the 75 member CII advises the legislature, they are non-statutory and the legislature is free to (and does) ignore them. They are an odious organization, and it was under pressure from these Islamists that the national assembly discussed tabling the bill, but the outcry in civil society has been widespread.

Believe it or not, large parts of Pakistani civil society are trying to do things the egalitarian west would consider progressive. Unfortunately there remains a significant portion of the population that opposes such things. However, given what has happened recently in the U.S. in places like Texas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, ad infinitum, it is beyond disingenuous to pretend that the U.S. is somehow immune to or progressed beyond hateful, discriminatory religious politics.

Don't mistake me: Pakistan is not an easy, egalitarian, or progressive place to live. Pakistan is, technically, a democratic republic (don't get me started on the realities), but it is also only 70 years old. How progressive, and how democratic, was the U.S. in 1850?








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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Tue May 31, 2016, 09:22 AM

58. "only a small stick is necessary" Well I can think of one way to measure "small"

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Response to MariaThinks (Original post)

Tue May 31, 2016, 09:31 AM

59. Some women are fighting back

 

I have no idea if these women photographed are Pakistani but I love the messages. Check out these brave warriors!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trybeatingmelightly-pakistan-wife-beating-bill_us_574c7bd4e4b0dacf7ad54417

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