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Fri May 20, 2016, 03:47 PM

Fatal EgyptAir flight suffered on-board fire minutes before crash

Source: Deutsche Welle

France is dispatching a naval vessel, equipped with sonar, to the site to try and locate the black box data recorders. An aviation expert told DW that equipment registered fires on board prior to the crash.

Smoke and fire broke out on board EgyptAir flight MS804 minutes before the plane plunged off radar screens during the early hours of Thursday morning.

"There was a fire on board," aviation expert Tim van Beverdn told DW. "The system sent very clear messages. There was a lavatory smoke detected. A minute later, avionics compartment smoke detected...Two minutes later, the flight control units are failing.". Van Beveren said he expected Egyptian authorities to corrobarte this information shortly.

Meanwhile, at the site of the crash, human remains have been identified, about 180 miles (290 km) north of Alexandria. The discovery comes roughly 36 hours after the A320 flying from Paris to Cairo abruptly disappeared from radar.

Read more: http://www.dw.com/en/fatal-egyptair-flight-suffered-on-board-fire-minutes-before-crash/a-19274278

95 replies, 9157 views

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Reply Fatal EgyptAir flight suffered on-board fire minutes before crash (Original post)
MowCowWhoHow III May 2016 OP
MADem May 2016 #1
Jitter65 May 2016 #58
uppityperson May 2016 #2
LisaM May 2016 #3
Warpy May 2016 #4
6chars May 2016 #6
thereismore May 2016 #8
Warpy May 2016 #9
joshcryer May 2016 #19
snooper2 May 2016 #70
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2016 #79
rjsquirrel May 2016 #26
Kelvin Mace May 2016 #37
anigbrowl May 2016 #34
cstanleytech May 2016 #46
muriel_volestrangler May 2016 #5
philosslayer May 2016 #7
muriel_volestrangler May 2016 #21
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #15
James48 May 2016 #25
James48 May 2016 #27
AngryAmish May 2016 #78
matt819 May 2016 #10
leftynyc May 2016 #13
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #16
anigbrowl May 2016 #36
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #38
polly7 May 2016 #45
anigbrowl May 2016 #47
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #65
anigbrowl May 2016 #66
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #73
uppityperson May 2016 #40
blufinn May 2016 #62
Fumesucker May 2016 #64
uppityperson May 2016 #88
blufinn May 2016 #61
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #76
zentrum May 2016 #17
Journeyman May 2016 #23
greiner3 May 2016 #32
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #39
Silver_Witch May 2016 #53
pablo_marmol May 2016 #54
-none May 2016 #80
leftynyc May 2016 #67
zentrum May 2016 #68
leftynyc May 2016 #69
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #75
leftynyc May 2016 #81
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #82
leftynyc May 2016 #83
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #84
leftynyc May 2016 #85
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #89
leftynyc May 2016 #92
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #93
leftynyc May 2016 #94
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #74
Silver_Witch May 2016 #52
underthematrix May 2016 #29
LiberalElite May 2016 #42
underthematrix May 2016 #44
cstanleytech May 2016 #49
phazed0 May 2016 #11
Ford_Prefect May 2016 #12
FailureToCommunicate May 2016 #24
Baclava May 2016 #14
AtheistCrusader May 2016 #18
jtuck004 May 2016 #20
maindawg May 2016 #22
6chars May 2016 #33
ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #55
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2016 #28
allan01 May 2016 #30
Chemisse May 2016 #31
Yo_Mama May 2016 #48
Chemisse May 2016 #57
Angel Martin May 2016 #35
Bernardo de La Paz May 2016 #41
blufinn May 2016 #43
6chars May 2016 #50
Silver_Witch May 2016 #51
Adrahil May 2016 #77
DonCoquixote May 2016 #56
JCMach1 May 2016 #59
blufinn May 2016 #60
JCMach1 May 2016 #63
Baclava May 2016 #71
Sunlei May 2016 #72
Name removed May 2016 #86
MowCowWhoHow III May 2016 #87
moriah May 2016 #90
Baclava May 2016 #91
MowCowWhoHow III May 2016 #95

Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 03:49 PM

1. Something terrible happened in the galley/lav area just aft of the cockpit.

So damn sad.

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Response to MADem (Reply #1)

Sat May 21, 2016, 07:46 AM

58. Looking more like a lithium battery problem... nt

 

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 03:51 PM

2. Thank you for the update, how sad for those on board. Edited, other sites carrying this now

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 03:56 PM

3. I don't like to speculate, but would that likely be a bomb?

Or something akin to that ValuJet flight years ago where they were transporting used oxygen tanks and they exploded?

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Response to LisaM (Reply #3)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:05 PM

4. Maybe a smoker who discarded a lit butt in the trash receptacle

instead of into the toilet. It has happened before.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:13 PM

6. i think egyptair is non-smoking

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Response to 6chars (Reply #6)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:22 PM

8. ? Doesn't make any difference. nt

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Response to 6chars (Reply #6)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:24 PM

9. So were the other flights it happened on

which is why smokers head for the lav to light up.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #9)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:09 PM

19. And that's why they have ashtrays.

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Response to 6chars (Reply #6)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:44 AM

70. So is the bathroom at Cowboys stadium but that doesn't stop anyone

 

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Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:46 AM

79. The trash receptacles in airplane lavs have fire extinguishers

built into them. This is more likely an electrical fire like Swissair 111.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #3)


Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #26)

Fri May 20, 2016, 07:03 PM

37. Yep, nasty things when they go bad.

 

VERY hot fires. We are packing a LOT of energy in a very small space.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #3)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:52 PM

34. No, less likely

 

A bomb is more likely to result in explosive decompression and a breakup of the aircraft than a simple fire. Of course it's possible and we won't know until there's more evidence but generally bombs to go off with a bang.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #3)

Fri May 20, 2016, 09:21 PM

46. I think its unlikely to be a bomb as most bombings are typically followed by a message

from the party or parties who did it claiming an almost gleelike responsibility followed by a bullshit explanation of why its really not their fault but the fault of x party for forcing them to kill a bunch of innocents.
Oxygen tanks? Possible I suppose but it could also be a number of other things as well like a fire due to faulty wiring or a fan blade broke off one of the engines and did some dmg causing the fire.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:08 PM

5. This seems to be based on this:

On May 20th 2016 The Aviation Herald received information from three independent channels, that ACARS (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System) messages with following content were received from the aircraft:

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT
no further ACARS messages were received

http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0

It seems odd that the pilots wouldn't say anything if this is what happened.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #5)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:18 PM

7. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate

 

In that order. If I was trying to control a plane that was going down, communicating wouldn't be my highest priority.

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Response to philosslayer (Reply #7)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:30 PM

21. What I hadn't realised was they already had 2 minutes between no contact and radar disappearance

Greek aviation officials say air traffic controllers spoke to the pilot when he entered Greek airspace and everything appeared normal.

They tried to contact him again at 02:27 Cairo time, as the plane was set to enter Egyptian airspace, but "despite repeated calls, the aircraft did not respond". Two minutes later it vanished from radar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36333992

That 02:27 matches with the 0027 from Aviation Herald. The Greek site translates as (their 0327 being daylight savings time):

At 2:48 a.m. transferred to the next Audit and authorized by the responsible controller, the exit point from the Athens FIR. The pilot was cheerful and thanked the Greek.

At 3:27 a.m. the Athens Area Control Center tried to contact the aircraft for transfer of communication and control of the Athens FIR in Cairo FIR.

Despite repeated calls the aircraft did not respond, so the air traffic controller called the hazard rate with no response from the side of the aircraft.

At 3:29 above the exit point.

On 3:29:40 AM lost the position of the aircraft from the
radar about 7 NM south / southeast of the point KUMBI, in Cairo FIR.

Immediately requested the assistance of the Air Force radar target tracking possible, to no avail.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #5)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:03 PM

15. Those clues could suggest an entire chunk of the plane was gone.

I would expect maybe MORE messages, but depending on what happened, the pilots may have been in no condition or mood to radio anyone for anything

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #5)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:35 PM

25. EXtrodinary good data

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT
no further ACARS messages were received

http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0

First two lines:
00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
means a failure of the right window anti-icing electrical circuit sensor.


00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR

are consistent with a major windshield failure on the right (copilot) side, excessive heat, shattering the windshield, causing a significant fire. The windshield may have blown out, and the sliding window sensor could be someone trying to open the sliding window vent window to suck out the smoke, OR could be the next window immediately failed.

Third and fourth lines
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE

are consistent with the electrical fire then immediately flaring up and catching the power panel on fire.
It would be possible for the Avionics bay and lav smoke detector to be detecting smoke caused by wiring inside the fuselauge frame going to the cockpit. (short circuit).

00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
That is saying that the windshield itself is failing. That is highly unusual, and occurs a full two minutes after the initial short circuit.

00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT-
means the second flight control unit has failed. That FCU provides multi instruments would be affected-

00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT-
Again, a major instrument failure.

no further ACARS messages were received




I would not speculate anything into that.

Could be mechanical/electrical catastrophic failure, OR something else.

Need much more information.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #5)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:36 AM

78. I read the flight deck was on fire.

 

That would make the pilots really busy.

But let's wait for some facts.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:27 PM

10. Just remember what's most important

Speculate and blame before any information is available. (I'm looking at you Donald and Hillary.)

This one is a no-brainer. Well, they're all no-brainers. It's Obama's fault. And the Muslims.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #10)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:41 PM

13. Oh please

 

All she said was that it looked like terrorism - anyone who denies that is lying. She didn't BLAME anyone.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #13)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:04 PM

16. Exactly the kind of conclusions people shouldn't be knee-jerking to.

There's enough fucking fear in the world without fanning the flames.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #16)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:56 PM

36. That's not a conclusion, it's just acknowledging an obvious possibility

 

It's one thing to keep an open mind, it's another to dismiss obvious possibilities. I'm 50-50 on whether it's terrorism or poor maintenance.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #36)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:18 PM

38. No she didn't. That was a specific attribution.

And it might turn out wrong.


Clinton also addressed the disappearance of EgyptAir Flight 804, saying the disaster "Shines a very bright light on the threat that we face from organized terror groups."

"It reinforced the need for American leadership -- the kind of hard, steady leadership that only America can provide." Clinton said.


That's the same right-wing hawkish American exceptionalism BULLSHIT that Obama just spent 8 years trying to un-do. Fuck that noise.

I sincerely hope she's wrong, just to check her pro-war hawkishness before the general, because this kind of shit is going to be our undoing.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #38)

Fri May 20, 2016, 09:08 PM

45. Wow, I didn't know she'd said this.

In light of how much suffering she's willingly caused around the world with her love-for-war decisions - her claim that 'only America can provide' leadership against terror!!!! is laughable. Maybe she should make that claim to the millions who are terrorized daily since it all.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #38)

Fri May 20, 2016, 10:02 PM

47. No it wasn't

 

A specific attribution would be 'I think ISIS did it.' You thought of terrorism as one possibility as soon as you heard the news, and you did so because there has been plenty of it about in that region lately. You're going to have a long all, because there is no way she plans on losing the general election by looking weak compared to Donald Trump. Every actual terror incident (especially in Western countries) is a free campaign ad for Donald Trump.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #47)

Sat May 21, 2016, 04:11 PM

65. I thought of mechanical failure, actually.

Running 'stronger' than Trump on foreign policy is going to scare the ever loving shit out of the entire planet. Bush MK II would have trouble running 'stronger' than Trump.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #65)

Sat May 21, 2016, 04:16 PM

66. I didn't say anything about trying to look 'stronger' so don't put quotes around it likme I did

 

I said she doesn't want to look weak, which is not necessarily the same thing.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #66)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:21 AM

73. Double quote is exact, single quote is a paraphrase.

I am curious why you disagree with that as a paraphrase.

Pretty much everything she said about it came right out of the right wing chickenhawk playbook. If you told someone it was a statement from Dick Cheney, no one would have batted an eye. Even Jeb Bush was banging that 'America must lead' drum a few months ago.

Didn't win him the fucking nomination either.


When you don't KNOW, this is what you say:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/05/19/statement-press-secretary-josh-earnest-egyptair-flight-804

President is a class act. Always has been. Always will be. That's why he defeated Hillary in '08. That's why we need someone more like him today.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #36)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:26 PM

40. "it looks like" is very different from "there's a possibility it is".

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Response to blufinn (Reply #62)

Sat May 21, 2016, 03:13 PM

64. That is a "Dog bites man" story, it would only be a story if Trump actually said something profound

Then of course it would be a Yoooge story...

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Response to blufinn (Reply #62)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:07 PM

88. What about Trump? He proves repeatedly that he's a fear mongering ass.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #16)

Sat May 21, 2016, 02:38 PM

61. Why, didn't you hear

Trump's tweet right after the incident and his diatribe while at the NRA convention about it? You talk about fear-mongering!

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Response to blufinn (Reply #61)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:30 AM

76. That should set our candidate and their candidate APART, not on the same page...

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #13)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:05 PM

17. Except that on the very same

.day, our current SOS, John Kerry, said he absolutely wasn't going to say it looks like terrorism until he knows for sure.

He went on to say that such language, before you know for sure, "harms people and countries". See? That's how you do diplomacy---- rather than whipping up a dangerous narrative.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:17 PM

23. That's good advice for everyone's daily affairs: Know what you're talking about before . . .

you open your yap.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:46 PM

32. Good thing

 

US Secretaries of State have the good sense not to add confusion by stating something that has no proof OH wait w

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:19 PM

39. Exactly.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Sat May 21, 2016, 03:15 AM

53. This!!! And THIS!! and Finally THIS!!!

 

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Sat May 21, 2016, 04:07 AM

54. Thank you.


KNX news radio L.A. is a good example of how not to handle the situation. They were peddling the terrorism angle right out of the gate with soundbites from "experts".

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Response to pablo_marmol (Reply #54)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:54 AM

80. Of course they were.

What is the country du jour our war hawks want to bomb into a gravel lot? They must have done it correct?

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Mon May 23, 2016, 05:22 AM

67. What dangerous narrative?

 

Acknowledging that Egypt Air has had 3 different incidences (just this year) and this could very well be the same thing? How is that a "dangerous narrative"? Especially considering the airline itself mentioned terrorism FIRST?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #67)

Mon May 23, 2016, 08:54 AM

68. Doesn't matter what Egypt said.

Or its airline. For God sakes, is there no inner guiding principle that HRC will follow except the latest trending headline?

We're the big boots in the world. So it matters in a unique and powerful way what our "leaders" say. And when a future possible POTUS and past SOS says things like this, it not only sounds like George Bush, it increases local, even domestic acts of violence against Muslims, (since that's what "terrorist" is usually taken to mean), it hurts tourism in countries where tourism is already down 40%, it has indirect effects on the RW rise in Israel, it effects the recent Obama treaty with Iran about re-establishing diplomatic ties with a Muslim country, it increases worldwide tension, xenophobia and fear. Sorry if you can't make these worldwide links in your mind.

And I see you do not address what our actually really truly diplomatic SOS said: Don't say "terrorism" until you know for sure. It's its own loaded gun. Kerry said, may I repeat, "it harms people and countries". Saying it right off the bat codes like a reckless pander to the RW in this country.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #68)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:02 AM

69. Is this from the same idiotic

 

playbook that says you can't use the words Islamic extremism because it may make already pissed off terrorists more pissed off? Frankly, saying it may be the result of simple mechanical failure is a whole lot more scary than that Egypt Air has problems with terrorists getting their hands on their planes. Saying it looks like terrorism is realistic and frankly, I don't give a fuck if it messes with the Iran nuclear deal which looks more and more like a loser every single day.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #69)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:30 AM

75. Oh goodie, I see you're already lining up to pummel Iran too.

Is there a fucking difference between us and them anymore? Any difference at all?

How do I get off this train

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #75)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:08 PM

81. What are you babbling about?

 

Who is them? Who is us? Perhaps you're happy with the mad mullahs in Iran but I detest religious freaks no matter whey they come from.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #81)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:15 PM

82. Keep on truckin' bro.

Keep banging that war drum. War fixes everything. So I'm told

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #82)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:17 PM

83. War drum?

 

So now hating the religious freaks that are in charge of iran makes me a warmonger. THIS is why your candidate is losing. Because of infantile, ridiculous arguments like yours - well done.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #83)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:55 PM

84. And what of the religious freaks here at home?

Who invades us to get rid of them?

Iran is a sovereign nation. We have a tenuous DIPLOMATIC deal worked out with them right now. It seems to be bearing fruit. From its inception, the far right, pro-war contingent have been savaging the president over it, because it makes war LESS likely with Iran.

That's the group you stand among. The ones who want to micromange the internals of another nation. People like John McCain.

Please stop. Let diplomacy do its job.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #84)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:58 PM

85. Really?

 

Just HOW and WHERE is this agreement bearing fruit? You mean like the micromanaging that DUers regularly engage in trashing Israel? You want to trust the mullahs, knock yourself out - I despise them.

If you haven't seen me trash religious freaks no matter where they come from, you don't follow me AT ALL.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #85)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:22 PM

89. I don't know or follow you.

You can probably guess by my username how tolerant I am of religious freaks when intersecting with Politics/Policy as well.


The UN is preparing to certify Iran's dismantling of their nuclear program. That's insane progress in three years. A master-stroke of foreign policy. Ahmadinejad was kept in office by fear mongering, shadow-boxing the great satan western imperialists, and Bush/Co. never failed to deliver them evidence that the US wanted to fight, and wanted to dominate them. Obama pulled the rug out from under him. Rouhani is a moderate. His rise is no fluke. It's the backpedal away from the right-wing extremists in Iran, who no longer have a ready supply of examples of western hegemony to beat the people about the head and neck with to shore up their support.

They lost an enemy. No windmills to tilt at now. So they have come to the diplomatic table, with negotiation rather than stonewall rhetoric. Obama has, with multi-national support, de-fused Iran. It's working.

No, from a civil rights standpoint, it's not all sweetness and light. Iran has a lot of problems for women, for people in general. It sucks there. But the hard-right is slipping, losing power. There's a shift underway.


Taking a hard-line diplomatic approach with Iran right now would un-do all the gains our current admin has accomplished, and that's intolerable to me.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #89)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:36 PM

92. Waiting until the generation

 

of mullahs to die would have worked in moderating Iran just as easily as this agreement did. While I usually come down heavily on one side or the other on subjects like that one, I easily could have argued both sides....mostly because although it sounded good, I give the mullahs zero credit for anything - especially in matters of life or death. Meanwhile, Iran still finances terrorism on a daily basis. That hasn't changed at all.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #92)

Mon May 23, 2016, 03:25 PM

93. Depending on who does the accounting, so do we.

Sad but true. Everyone's playing the same game here. I hope you can see that.

I don't think the mullahs need to die off of old age for us to continue progressing here. They are already losing control. Had the riots in 2013 happened today, Iran would be a whole new country. Sadly, a lot of them died off or are in prison from that rioting.

The people of Iran are still pro-west and their politics are moving in that direction. It's something to encourage, not threaten.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #93)

Mon May 23, 2016, 03:28 PM

94. That was one of the arguments

 

I used at the time - that the younger people are pro-Western. Like I said, I could easily argue both sides.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #68)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:28 AM

74. Kerry has been every bit the SoS that Hillary should have been.

Should have been president in 04, too.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #13)

Sat May 21, 2016, 03:13 AM

52. She is a fear monger and Hawk and anything...

 

that promotes hate and fear are her main feast.

Hillary will always see anger, fear and hate - because that is her nature. Pure and simple. My first thought was how horrible...all those poor people. Her's "looks like terrorism".

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Response to matt819 (Reply #10)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:42 PM

29. NAZI Trump already went there

I expect HRC to say nothing until she receives info and clearance from the WH.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #29)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:35 PM

42. Except that she said this:

"Clinton also addressed the disappearance of EgyptAir Flight 804, saying the disaster "Shines a very bright light on the threat that we face from organized terror groups."

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #42)

Fri May 20, 2016, 09:00 PM

44. Yes I saw this and completely forgot she said this

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #42)

Fri May 20, 2016, 11:26 PM

49. Thats because it actually does shine a light on a very real issue

from a number of sources around the world who do actually do try to commit such things like airline bombings, thats a fact its not a statement that is what actually happened to this airline because I dont think it was an actual bomb in this instance because if it was the assholes who had done it would have would have released a prepared statement to claim responsibility right away within the first few minutes if not hours.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:31 PM

11. Seems odd that it wasn't a terrorist attack..

 

considering all of the MSM, Trump and Hillary are on the "scary" bandwagon with no iota of information.

Bombs usually take a bit longer than 2-3 minutes to explode and don't cause localized fires.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 04:31 PM

12. It rather depends on what part is burning and where the smoke is inside the plane.

A relatively small fire in the right place could disable or disrupt important instruments and control functions. Smoke in the cockpit rather than the cabin could interfere with the pilots' ability to see the instruments telling them what the problems are.

As several have mentioned we have no idea at this point what caused the smoke. I agree with those who suggest that it is more likely something intentional than accidental, or a technical fault. But that does not make it so. The public reactions of political candidates asserting probable terrorism are not worth hearing. Until more is known that kind of remark amounts to yelling fire in a theater as far as I'm concerned.

If it was a terror attack why has no one taken credit? It's not worth doing this kind of thing if you get no PR from doing it, or at least claiming you did. Where's the terror value if nobody knows it was you that pulled it off?

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #12)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:25 PM

24. That's true. Apparently there have been none of the usual claims of responsibility.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:02 PM

14. A simple lav fire wouldn't bring down a modern jet. An electrical/cargo fire/bomb could.

Let the endless speculation until the data recorders are found, begin.

I give it a month till they find them, if at all. Like we've seen before, the deep ocean doesn't give up it's secrets easily.

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Response to Baclava (Reply #14)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:07 PM

18. Bombs tend to decompress airplanes.

Smoke detectors don't pick up heat or smoke in that condition.

This could have been a laptop fire in the cargo area below the deck, it could have been any number of things. It'll be months before we know much for sure. FDR and CVR *MIGHT* contain clues.

Edit: Fuck I got annoyed and started replying to you before fully reading your message. Your post was fine, sorry if I sounded snarky.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 05:21 PM

20. Doesn't say front or rear, but it has both...

 



Whatever it was generated a lot of heat and smoke really fast, it seems, but with enough time for alarms to go off separated by minutes.Sounds more like a battery or oxygen-fed fire right near the panels that control things both fore and aft. It wouldn't be the first plane with a cargo that wasn't described correctly.Still could be a bomb, but they are darn quiet about it if it is.

At 37K feet, they might have had a minute to think about it, then all would be unconscious. Anyone who was asleep probably never knew. The pilots have masks and O2, but this might have started breaking the plane up as well, disrupting those systems, and falling into the sea.



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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:03 PM

22. Very irresponsible

 

Of the reporters to push the terror agenda in the first place. That the candidates Clinton and Trump Both immediately screamed terrorism is more than deeply disturbing. Here was a chance for Hillary to appear cautious and wise. But no, she went right out and pointed her pudgy little finger at terrorists.
Turns out some guy smoked a cigarette .

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Response to maindawg (Reply #22)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:52 PM

33. Why would anyone think terror?

Just because the last year has already seen Isis blow up an egyptair flight leaving Cairo and killed hundreds in the Paris attack and right before this Paris to Cairo accident promised a flurry more emanating in Paris? Silly ct. Cigarette smokers are the real threat.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #22)

Sat May 21, 2016, 04:19 AM

55. I think it's hilarious you're ready to jump to a conclusion...

....to fit your narrative based on the scant additional information provided.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:41 PM

28. An in-flight electrical fire can be catastrophic

and make it impossible to control the aircraft. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:43 PM

30. ...

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:44 PM

31. This goes against the terrorism theory, I think.

A bomb (typically) would have had devastating effects much faster, and not by emitting smoke. It would puncture a hole in the airplane and the plane would decompress, and possibly break up in the air.

If a fire started in the cargo hold, it could take time for it to reach critical equipment and cut out the electronics, thereby causing the crash. That would account for the time lapse of a few minutes before the trouble started and the plane vanished from radar.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #31)

Fri May 20, 2016, 10:50 PM

48. Yes, but they would have communicated, and you would expect a different sequence of ACARS messages.

The problem seems to have started in the cockpit.

They'll get the recorders, recover most the wreckage, and I am sure they will come to a conclusion eventually.

This explains why they started talking about a bomb so quickly.

But, although it was a different plane and some changes have been made, Swissair 111 comes to mind. Electrical arcing caused a fire inside the upper right ceiling of the cockpit.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/fiches-facts/a98h0003/sum_a98h0003.asp

In this case, perhaps under the flooring. By the time you see the first error message, perhaps it was far along, and it rapidly knocks out systems. So technical problem can't be ruled out?

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #48)

Sat May 21, 2016, 07:42 AM

57. Ahh. Yeah, I was thinking of ValueJet 592 that crashed in the Everglades.

They lost communications quickly. But I looked it up and they did have a couple of minutes during which they communicated about smoke in the cockpit.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:53 PM

35. Swissair flight 111

crashed from equipment failures due to fire that started in the entertainment system.

There is still some question if unusual amounts of magnesium were placed deliberately as a fire accelerant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111#Probable_cause

the EgyptAir timeline for equipment failure due to fire was much quicker

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:28 PM

41. Benghazi !

A conservative site is reporting that there is a link between the captain and muslims involved in the Benghazi debacle.


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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #41)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:51 PM

43. Rubbish

Conservative says it all. Rubbish.

I still say it was short circuit or lithium batteries. And Trump and his blowhard mouth has to rant on and on and on.

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Response to blufinn (Reply #43)

Sat May 21, 2016, 02:56 AM

50. you tell 'em!

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Sat May 21, 2016, 03:08 AM

51. I remember when an airplane accident was just that an accident.

 

It is sad that the first assumption is terror - when accident is the more likely answer. I worry that we are all so full of fear. Perhaps there is a lesson in this.

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Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #51)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:32 AM

77. Part of that is that planes are MUCH safer today.

 

Seriously. I work in aviation. The strides made in aviation safety over the last 40 years is pretty astounding. It is a pretty rare event that we lose a large commercial aircraft to technical failures.

Look here:

http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/company/about_bca/pdf/statsum.pdf

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Sat May 21, 2016, 04:35 AM

56. if this were a bomb

There would be a fight between Isis and Al-Quaeda to claim who did this first, and it would have been in the first hour.

Plus, this was a Paris to Egypt flight. If they had enough skill to place the bomb in Paris, would it not have made sense to blow the thing in, Paris? aka, send a blatant FU to the EU and go "nyah nyah nyah, we got you again."

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Sat May 21, 2016, 01:46 PM

59. Couldn't one intentionally short circuit an LiON battery?

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #59)

Sat May 21, 2016, 02:33 PM

60. Of course...but

Look at this very similar (one of a few, actually) event

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/2500357/ao-2009-027%20final.pdf

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Response to blufinn (Reply #60)

Sat May 21, 2016, 02:49 PM

63. Now, imagine you have piled all of them you are allowed to bring aboard in say a trash bin...

backup power, laptop battery, several cell phone batteries, etc....


Just speculation, just as likely to be an actual bomb or some other type of catastrophic failure.

It's about probabilities...

Could even be a meteor strike, but that's an extremely extremely low probability...

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:56 AM

71. Egypt deploys robot submarine in EgyptAir Flight 804 search

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:15 AM

72. some reported a fireball 'falling'. Those poor people, 90 degree jolt to left, full 360 to right &

drop thousands of feet like a stone. Not a word from pilots, sounds like a bomb or very major explosion.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)


Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:01 PM

87. Something for the conspiracy theorists to chew over

From and including: Saturday, 8 March 2014 (Malaysia Airlines Flight 370)
To and including: Thursday, 19 May 2016 (EgyptAir Flight 804)

is 804 days.

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:24 PM

90. I hope some family members are able to recover their relatives remains. Nt

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:34 PM

91. More conflicting reports: 'EgyptAir plane 'did not swerve' before crash'

Egypt air navigation official says plane did not swerve or lose altitude before it disappeared, as claimed by Greece.

The head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services says that EgyptAir flight 804 did not swerve or lose altitude before it disappeared off radar, challenging an earlier account by Greece's defence minister.

Ehab Azmy, head of the National Air Navigation Services Company, told The Associated Press news agency on Monday that in the minutes before the plane disappeared it was flying at its normal altitude of 37,000 feet, according to the radar reading.

He said: "That fact degrades what the Greeks are saying about aircraft suddenly losing altitude before it vanished from radar."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/egyptair-plane-swerve-crash-160523143800474.html

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Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 04:58 PM

95. EgyptAir navigation official says plane didn't make sharp turns or lose altitude before disappearing

EGYPT: EgyptAir navigation official says plane didn't make sharp turns or lose altitude before disappearing as Greece claimed - @ZoraSuleman
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/734849842355245057

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