Sanders, not going away quietly, puts Clinton on defensive in Democratic debate

[Cheese Sandwich]

Source: Los Angeles Times

He mocked Clinton’s record on trade and Wall Street, casting her as a late — and opportunistic — convert to progressive economics.

“Secretary Clinton supported virtually every one of the disastrous trade agreements written by corporate America,” he said, singling out the North American Free Trade Agreement reached by President Clinton’s administration in the 1990s — which, Sanders said, erased “tens of thousands of jobs” in the Midwest.

In contrast, Sanders offered his own early opposition to the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership under consideration by Congress.

“I understood that these trade agreements were going to destroy the middle class of this country,” he said. “I led the fight against” them.


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-democratic-debate-20160306-story.html

---

[retrowire]

1. Welp. the MSM has many opinions.

And clearly I will agree, KnR with the one that reflects my own. Because I feel this is correct and the others are lies.

Bernie totally kicked ass.

[JonLeibowitz]

6. This was a pretty even-handed analysis, and actually included their words.

I am much more impressed by my local LA Times than by the nominally august NY Times.

[dchill]

2. Actually, Los Angeles Times, he's not going away at all.

Nice subliminals, though.

[saltpoint]

5. They're corporate flunkies, dyed in the wool,

and they just can't help themselves.

The mainstream media could report and offer fair analyses of events. Or they could count their advertising revenue.

They pick 'B' every time.

[silvershadow]

3. Bernie is not going away at all. nt

[UpInArms]

25. Love that Bernie's arrow points left

and can see the subliminal tilt to the right

with hillary's sign - it point right

thanks for the post!

[Nitram]

38. An arrrow pointing to the right is the convention for pointing to the future.

Looking back to the past is usually indicated in the leftward direction. I guess you see what you expect to see...

[silvershadow]

42. Sounds like you are uninformed about the issues and our history, to me? nt

[Nitram]

43. That comes as a surprise to me, Silver.

What did I write that suggested I was " uninformed about the issues and our history?" All I wrote was that timelines run from left to right, and in the West it is a convention represent time that way. What "issues and history" did I mention to bring about your nasty ad-hominem comment?

[silvershadow]

46. Weren't you indicating support for HRC over Bernie? nt

[Nitram]

47. I was pointing out the objective fact that the meaning of an arrow pointing to the right...

...is not universally accepted as indicating a conservative ideology, while it is universally understood in the West to indicate the direction of the future. And from that you infer and accuse me of being "uninformed about the issues and our history?" What's that all about?

[silvershadow]

48. Do you have a link or something that substantiates your claim? I have never heard of that in

over 50 years of living.

[Nitram]

49. Have you ever seen timeline in an elementary school classroom?

Or in a high school history classroom? What direction does time go on the x-axis of a graph? Why do clock hands move clockwise?

Links:

http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/72827/do-arrows-pointing-right-mean-progression-universally

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/culture-conscious/201110/is-the-left-after
("If English is your native tongue, you're likely to think of time as moving from left to right.&quot

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/10/one-arrow-of-time-to-rule-them-all/
(look at the illustration with this caption: "Time starts at the left and moves right, obviously.&quot

http://www.pitara.com/science-for-kids/5ws-and-h/why-do-clocks-run-clockwise/
"In the Northern Hemisphere the Sun appears to move in the sky from the left to the right and so the hands of the clock were made to follow the Sun’s motion, moving from left to right or what is commonly known as clockwise."

Here's a different take: http://time.com/3745935/mario-left-right/

I repeat: What "issues and history" did I mention to bring about your nasty ad-hominem comment?

[silvershadow]

50. I am amused at the juxtaposition of the left vs. right arrow against the political landscape.

It is more than apropos. Bernie is the left wing. Hillary is the right wing. If you want to look at elementary school anecdotes, let's: Hillary is taking us in a different direction, Bernie is taking us back to where we belong: Our 80-year history with working class, ordinary folks, the middle class, and labor. Specifically, organized labor, who built this country over the last century. The folks that the Third Way threw under the bus. Hillary is Third Way. Ewwww. I literally shudder at her. BTW, I was in this party from birth, over 50 years ago now. I am, in fact, standing in the same spot I was then. So yes, I know full well what the left and right arrows symbolize to me and many others. I have been used, as has my family, as a punching bag over the last many decades, being that we are a strong union family. We helped build the things the third way is trying to tear down. Things that all Americans of the modern era have traditionally enjoyed, whether or not they were union. Like a 40 hour work week. Like Vacation pay. Like workplace safety regulations that later formed OSHA, a vitally important safety function of our government. I'm not budging this time. Bernie or bust. The end. (That said, I won't have to bust, because Bernie will win this thing handily.

[Nitram]

53. That was quite a rant - that missed the point entirely.

I am still waiting for an apology for attacking me personally for suggesting that the symbolism of an arrow pointing to the right is more commonly associated with the future than a political preference. You asked for evidence, I gave you plenty. You have not provided a single iota of evidence for your little theory (in spite of sly digs about "elementary anecdotes&quot .

Once again, you wrote that my comment demonstrated I was "uninformed about the issues and our history?"

Once again, I request an apology rather than a lengthy deflection. Or are you just a flinger of random meaningless words, empty as a shadow?

[saltpoint]

4. If Sanders' principled stand against those trade

agreements goes back some many years, and it does, it suggests to a keen observer that his vision for a better country involves respect for and support of the men and women who work to make a living.

IMO that is not a small distinction in the current national discourse. Not that the mainstream media would give a damn.

The men and women working hard to make ends meet do not make the incomes the 1-percent make, and no one knows their names. Sanders' message includes them, and they are hearing it, and he has come decidedly farther with his campaign than anybody initially believed he would. In large part because he is speaking for those without voices, those people CNN and ABC are not interviewing or reporting on, those who want change not for its own sake but because it's need is urgent if a fairer landscape and economic justice are to be achieved.

[Warpy]

7. That's why such huge numbers of people turn out to see him everywhere he goes

while the Clinton team has been going for the big donors and trying to snap up as many "super" delegates as they can.

[saltpoint]

8. Agree. She goes for the Super Delegates and the

fat-cat donors.

His campaign is almost symbolized by long lines of people who don't have that kind of clout or that size a wallet.

And there's a lot of us out here.

[Divernan]

9. Fine, powerful comment, Saltpoint!

[silvershadow]

14. I notice that clearly unions are almost nothing in this primary, but at least Bernie

is firmly in the camp of the working man, and I also know his support for unions is more than just lip service. I truly hope my political instincts are correct, and he is going to crush it!

I was unceremoniously given a big F.U. in an email on DU today from a member who has been here since 2006, and it was all about another post I made with my firm support for labor. I come from a union household, in a formerly union town. I am also older now, and I know every detail of what has happened over the last 40 years to labor. I guess my command of the issues is too much for some folks to handle.

I look at it like this: I was here first (in the party), as compared to these Third Wayers. They are the interlopers into my party, not me. (*note to the younger folk here: Respect your elders. Learn from them. Some folks I have run into think they know much more than they do, and they only show how woefully uneducated they really are.)

If the wrong person takes the helm of the ship in January, you can kiss even more of your meager benefits goodbye. They are already cracking the Federal Pensions now, just as they have at the state level, and you can bet vacations and sick days etc are next. At a minimum.

I truly hope that the unions make endorsements as soon as we have a clear front runner (or sooner, if the help to get the right candidate is needed).

[jwirr]

30. In MN the Union rank and file was at our phone banks, our

teach ins to help us with the caucuses, and at the caucuses wearing their Bernie shirts just like the rest of us.

BTW wearing your candidate items is legal here - since a caucus involves talking up your candidate there is no reason to hide who you support.

[silvershadow]

45. Oh that's so good to hear! Nice to know about the campaign buttons, too! nt

[Nitram]

39. "...clearly unions are almost nothing in this primary..."

Clearly if they endorse Clinton they don't count.

[silvershadow]

44. pretty much. nt

[Uncle Joe]

10. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Cheese Sandwich.

[saltpoint]

11. It strikes me that the Democratic voters

in Maine today apparently do not perceive that Senator Sanders is "going away."

His campaign appears to be quite immediate and urgent, if the percentages by which they supported him are any gauge.

One is hesitant to accuse major news sources of snide bias, and yet, the evidence does begin to pile up.

[jwirr]

31. More obvious is that we supporters are not going away. She

can throw out as much propaganda as she wants most of us are here to the end.

[saltpoint]

52. jwirr, that is the kind of talk

I love to hear.

[Major Hogwash]

12. His best asset is that he speaks truth to power, that's his forte.

And when she interrupts him while he is speaking, he asks her to stop interrupting him.

He sounds like the true statesman that he is!

There's nothing phony about him.

[Major Hogwash]

13. She's pointing a finger at him.

How rude!!

[madokie]

17. Reminds me of

another candidate referring to the President as 'that one,' remember that?

[Major Hogwash]

18. Exactly what I was thinking when I first saw it.

But, I was too afraid of saying that . . because I cannot afford to suffer another hide.

[pangaia]

27. it was Gollum.

[Rebkeh]

28. My thought exactly nt

[Enthusiast]

15. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[MrMickeysMom]

16. He's charging up the the national convention for the obvious...

The idea, when carried forth with that kind of leadership, is much bigger than the person. This IS a political revolution. Why, then WOULD it go away?

The only way is if those of us who have gotten the message (way more than some on this board think) made us "go away"....

And THAT is NOT going to happen.

[madokie]

19. I got the message

and I ain't going anywhere but to the voting booth to give Bernie my vote. Already have once and plan on doing the same again.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Alright!

[ebayfool]

21. Why, I do believe that's a finger she's waving at him! Shocking!

That's sarcasm, of course. Just the very thing the Clinton posse has been squalling about all night in GD !

TY for the catch, Cheese. I like it. A lot!

[Nitram]

40. Well, when she does it, it's bad.

But Sanders does it so well, we just have to forgive him!

[GoneOffShore]

22. Well done, Senator Sanders.

She can squirm but she can't hide from the truth (truth being a very slippery concept in Camp Weathervane).

[BrainDrain]

23. Anytime you speak the truth....

you will be putting HRC on the defensive.......

[tomm2thumbs]

24. true as true can be

"The sparring between the two candidates is growing in intensity as polls show Clinton’s lead narrowing in a state that was once looked at by her supporters as an easy win. Sanders has been spending heavily in Michigan, and he is aiming to bounce off the momentum of weekend victories in Nebraska, Kansas and Maine into an upset."

No one should EVER consider any state an 'easy win' - how self-serving

[pangaia]

26. OOPPS.. There's Bernie pointing that finger again.

[malthaussen]

29. "Not going away quietly."

If he works it right, he won't be going away at all.

-- Mal

[Gregorian]

32. Not just an opportunist, but a corporate opportunist.

Come on, Bernie, you need to step this up a notch. Stop being so kind.

[SoapBox]

36. Ya know...I agree!

He has tried to be nice...but Camp Weathervane and Corrupt the Record ain't gonna play that way, so I say step it up!

And for Bernie to step it up, he just needs to keep HITTING her hard with her own statements and positions! Damn those inconvenient facts!

Of course, then there will be the Boo-Hoo...he's attacking a women. Well...tough fuck'n shit!

[turbinetree]

33. But, but according to the MSM.............................

https://shadowproof.com/2016/03/06/clinton-benefits-from-us-medias-misleading-reporting-of-delegate-counts/

and then this is her record of what she thinks of "trade deals".............. -------------she is a flip---flopper

https://shadowproof.com/2016/03/04/clintons-unveiled-plans-workers-trade-conflict-record/


Honk------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[JEB]

34. Only one candidate makes sense for working class people.

[SoapBox]

35. He's "mocking" her because he stands with the People of America.

So when the fuck does screwing the citizens become what our country is about?

He supports the 99% and he gets flack?

[Myrina]

37. He's got her on the defensive ... mild, smiling Abuela has left the building ...

... and now we're seeing who candidate Clinton really is. Nasty, driven, selfish.

Not the person I want sitting in the Oval Office.

[Nitram]

41. My mild, smiling abuela was not someone to trifle with.

She didn't suffer fools gladly.

[DJ13]

51. I never noticed before that Hillary has

small hands.