WWII's pivotal Battle of Midway recalled on 70th anniversary

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By AUDREY McAVOY

PEARL HARBOR, Hawaii (AP) — Six months after the devastating attack on Pearl Harbor, Japan sent four aircraft carriers to the tiny Pacific atoll of Midway to draw out and destroy what remained of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

But this time the U.S. knew about Japan's plans. U.S. cryptologists had cracked Japanese communications codes, giving Fleet Commander Adm. Chester Nimitz notice of where Japan would strike, the day and time of the attack, and what ships the enemy would bring to the fight.

The U.S. was badly outnumbered and its pilots less experienced than Japan's. Even so, it sank four Japanese aircraft carriers the first day of the three-day battle and put Japan on the defensive, greatly diminishing its ability to project air power as it had in the attack on Hawaii.

On Monday, current Pacific Fleet commander, Adm. Cecil Haney and other officials will fly 1,300 miles northwest from Oahu to Midway to market the 70th anniversary of the pivotal battle that changed the course of the Pacific war.

FULL story at link.



Read more: http://saratogian.com/articles/2012/06/04/news/doc4fccdc344ebb6343070907.txt

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074899/fullcredits#cast

My friend David Macklin played a part in Midway: David Macklin ... Lt. Jack Reid (uncredited)



http://www.davidmacklin.com/

[Bozita]

1. The film "Midway" will be on AMC on Thursday @2pm EDT.

[applegrove]

2. My parents took us to that flick when I was about 9. Loved it.

[Auggie]

11. I remember "Sensurround"

It was pretty cool technology in the mid-70s.

Sensurround is the trademark name for a process developed in the 1970s by Cerwin-Vega in conjunction with Universal Studios to enhance the audio experience during film screenings.

Specifically developed for the 1974 film Earthquake, the process was intended for subsequent use and was adopted for three more films, Midway (1976), Rollercoaster (1977) and in the theatrical version of Saga of a Star World (1978), the Battlestar Galactica pilot.

Sensurround worked by adding extended-range bass for sound effects. The low-frequency sounds were more felt than heard, providing a vivid complement to onscreen depictions of earth tremors, bomber formations, and amusement park rides. The overall trend toward "multiplex" cinema structures presented challenges that made Sensurround impractical as a permanent feature of cinema.

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensurround

[applegrove]

25. Do not think we were sitting in sensurround sound. That would be incredible though. What a perfect

film for that technology.

[oldhippydude]

3. i'm betting i have seen the movie a dozen times over the years

and might catch it again.. great action flick, reminds us that fortunes of war, as well as any human endeavor, often times is a matter of luck, despite all that has been said about heroism, intelligence, and just plain determination.. the results were simply a matter of a perfect storm of timing.. taking advantage of a situation that was not apparent at the time..

[ashling]

4. Same here

Things could have gone the other way very easily.

[caraher]

5. I remember seeing the movie around age 12

I'd read every book on WWII air combat in the local library and knew the history inside out. My dad and I sat down and while we waited for the film to start the guy behind us started giving his own son the most hilariously fractured WWII history lesson - we were almost in tears with laughter.

What really threw me, though, was the audience reaction as the Japanese carriers were blowing up. When I see scenes like that, I'm thinking about the hell those men are going through, regardless of the side they are on. But the audience erupted in cheers. I suppose I sort of understand that... the US are the "good guys" and this is their moment of triumph. I just felt a little sick about it.

If I were in a theater in the early 1940s it would have seemed more natural to me, I suppose.

[Arctic Dave]

6. My grandfather was in the Battle of Midway.

I remember watching the movie with him as a child and he would give us first hand accounts of what was happening outside the frame of the actual footage. I learned a lot about naval history from him, so much I was academic honor man for my division. I also helped cheat my division to pass the test, but that's a whole other story.

[Rhiannon12866]

7. Wow! Sounds fascinating!

My Dad was also in the Navy, radio operator on the USS Ranger, but much later. The story that sticks in my mind was about the time he had to lash himself to a table to weather extremely choppy seas.

[DinahMoeHum]

8. What vessel did he serve on? or was he at the island himself?

n/t

[Arctic Dave]

13. Will find out.

He was a lifer so he was on several.


The really crappy part is before he died he gave all his belongings to my aunt, her house burned down with all of his papers and medals. All that was left was metal frames for his ribbon board and medals.

[SGMRTDARMY]

17. Who knows, he may have served on the same ship

as my uncle. He was onboard the U.S.S. Yorktown when it was hit and sunk during Midway.

[Arctic Dave]

18. He was stationed on smaller vessels.

He never served on a carrier. I think the biggest ships he was on was a few tenders.

[SGMRTDARMY]

19. Thanks

They did serve in the same battle though. Probably served in many of the same battles.
Peace be with you.

[may3rd]

9. unrecoverable losses for the Japanese but the emperors admiral only promised six months of victory

Adm. Chester Nimitz meets with service members on the island of Midway May 1942 less than one month before the epic battle that would change the course of the war. Learn more about the Battle of Midway at www.nimitz.navy.mil and www.history.navy.mil.

http://www.nimitz.navy.mil/midway-part-one.html

[hifiguy]

10. Admiral Yamamoto was no fool.

He had lived and studied in the US and was familiar with untapped US industrial capacity. He knew that Japan could never match it. I was Yamamoto who famously said that the greatest consequence of Pearl Harbor would be "to awaken a sleeping tiger."

[SGMRTDARMY]

14. I believe that after Pearl Harbor he said, and I could be wrong.

"I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant". Before the attack on Pearl, Adm. Yamamoto said that for the first 6 months, his carriers would range far and wide but after that, Japan better sue for peace because he knew that Japan could never match the industrial output of the U.S.. After Midway, Japan's navy never recovered and then came the Battle of the Coral Sea which essentially finished Japan as a naval power. After the Great Mariannas Turkey Shoot, pretty much all of Japan's experienced fighter pilots were shot down. Japan did manage to sink or damage numerous naval ships with Kamikaze attacks, but that didn't change the outcome of the war.

My Uncle was stationed on the original U.S.S. Yorktown, CV-5 when it was hit and sunk during the Midway battle. He did survive and went on to serve on board the U.S.S. Enterprise, CV-6.

My father flew the P-38 Lighting fighter during WW2 and then was sent to the European theater and flew the P-51 Mustang escorting bombers into Germany.

[hifiguy]

15. You are correct. I was imprecise.

Your uncle and dad had to have been very brave men and I am in awe of their service.

[SGMRTDARMY]

16. Thank you

My uncle and dad never considered themselves brave men, they always said the brave ones where the ones that didn't survive.
I was always in awe of them both, and they were the reason I joined the Army in 66.
Again, thank you for the kind words for both of them. Both of them are unfortunetly no longer with us, but I fervently believe that Tom Brokaw was correct when he said that they were the greatest generation, they literally saved the world from tyranny.

[One_Life_To_Give]

20. Coral Sea was before Midway?

IIRC Coral Sea was Adm Jack Fletcher aboard Yorktown with Lexington against Zuikaku and Shoikaku.(My spelling of Japans ships is probably off. Soaring Crane and Happy Crane is the translation I believe.) And was responsible for those two Pearl Harbor veterans being absent from the Midway battle.

The Marianas Turkey shoot featured the newly deployed F6F "Hellcat" fighter. Which was able to effectively counter the Mitsubishi Type 3 Zero. After that Japan was never able to field effective squadrons. Most being rushed into combat with too little training. But that came after the Solomon Islands campaign, Guadalacanal to Boganville and the bypassing of Rabaul.

Lots of brave men fought in the Battles off Savo island and what is now called Iron Bottom Sound.

[SGMRTDARMY]

24. You are absolutely correct

Coral Sea was before Midway, It was the battle of Leyte Gulf that finished Japan as a naval power.
My bad.

[amandabeech]

36. Yorktown limped into Pearl Harbor, and then was fixed as much as it could have been in 72 hours.

Then it limped to Midway, confusing the Japanese.

Yorktown went down at Midway, and took Fletcher's career with it. Fletcher abandoned ship far, far too soon.

[msanthrope]

28. Yamamoto never said that....you are recalling a movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto%27s_sleeping_giant_quote

I once did an entire week of classes in American history on thing people think happened, but didn't. This was one of those instances.

[may3rd]

29. "I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success".

The other common quotation attributed to Yamamoto predicting the future outcome of a naval war against the United States is: "I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success".

^ Fumimaro Konoe, Konoye Ayamaro Ko Shuki (Memoirs of Prince Ayamaro Konoye), Asahi Shimbun-sha, 1946, p. 3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto's_sleeping_giant_quote

We all know wikipedia can be changed by updating pages and I didn't check the link of &quot Memoirs of Prince Ayamaro Konoye)"

[Cognitive_Resonance]

12. I often wonder about the outcome of WWII if Japan had prevailed at Midway

A decisive Japanese victory at Midway and subsequent occupation would have left the U.S. in a desperate situation with Hawaii and the tenuous links to Australia in serious jeopardy. At the least, the U.S. would face the prospect of re-prioritizing the Pacific theater at the expense of Europe, or even consideration for seeking negotiation with Japan. U.S. victory at Midway changed everything.

[Lurks Often]

21. The end result would have been the same

it might have taken a little longer, but Japan still would have lost.

1. There is some doubt that the Japanese would have been able to occupy Midway and even if they managed to occupy it, they wouldn't have been able to supply it.

2. There is no way Japan could have occupied Australia, their Army was stretched too thin already between China, Burma and Manchuria in addition to the various islands.

It might have added 6 months to a year to the war, but there was no way Japan could out produce the US and US submarines had pretty much choked the life out of the Japanese merchant marine. By the summer of 1945, the Japanese navy was virtually out of fuel oil for their ships.

[Johnyawl]

22. A loss at Midway would have made things more difficult, but not changed the outcome...

...because it would not have changed the basic fact that people like Yamamoto understood. Neither Japan, nor Germany had the ability to disrupt the US industrial output. It didn't matter how many ships we lost, we could build more, in port cities the Japanese could not reach. It didn't matter how many airplanes we lost, neither Japan nor Germany had long range bombers or the bases necessary to launch them from, within range of our industrial heartland.

We had England as a base in Europe which put our Air force within range of all of Germany's factories, their oil refineries and military bases. We had Australia as a starting point in the Pacific from which to launch the offensive across the Pacific until we were in range of the Japanese main islands.


And yes, a loss at Midway, especially if we had lost 4 aircraft carriers, would have been devastating, and would have put Australia in serious jeopardy. However, there are sea routes to Australia that would have been difficult for the Japanese to interdict, and we could have kept Australia supplied with men and material to prevent a Japanese victory there.

And ultimately, because neither the Japanese nor the German air forces could reach Tennessee and New Mexico, President Truman would have nuked their asses in 1945.

[Posteritatis]

30. The war would have ended in an Allied victory in, say, 1946 or 1947.

American military production during the war was absolutely incredible; short of some incredible long-shot victories or something weird happening at home the war was probably effectively decided on December 7, 1941.

To give you an idea, the US Navy has 285 ships that it recognizes as "navy ships" in service this year, plus or minus a couple that are still building or being retired. In August of 1945 it had just shy of 6,800.

[Angleae]

34. The Pacific would have lasted a few more years. Europe could have been drastically different.

The Japanese had no real capability to invade the west coast but the president, sec. of war, and general staff couldn't take that for granted. Most, if not all supplies going to europe would have been stopped. Combat units (ground, air, and sea) would have been redeployed to the west coast or Hawaii. Europe's future would be decided on whether Germany or the USSR wins. Neither prospect is appealing (imagine all countries thru France as soviet puppet states).

[Archae]

23. Several years ago, a TV documentary looked back at the Battle of Midway.

One thing that was included in show was a ROV was sent down to the wrecks, the Yorktown is still upright on the sea bottom.
(Forgot what condition any of the Japanese ships are in...)

One of the sailors from the Yorktown, watching the monitors just completely broke down.

[SGMRTDARMY]

26. My uncle was a GM on the Yorktown

I believe on one of the 3" 50's. He and my father only talked in general terms about their experiences in WWII. My father also fought in Korea. He lateralled to the Marines and was at the Chosin Resevoir when the Chinese entered the war.

[ieoeja]

27. China entered the war more than a month prior to Chosin.

For two days in October the UN advance came to a standstill. On the third day they began breaking through the Chinese lines. The Chinese then withdrew until they could bring a larger force to bear.

So at Chosin - and Kunu Ri; but we don't like to talk about Kunu Ri - the Chinese re-entered the war.

Did your father lateral to the Marines *at* Chosin? They had a saying along the lines of "it doesn't matter what you were when you into Chosin, you came out a Marine." The only mass lateral in US military history occured as a result. Ridgeway reported seeing men in US Army uniforms, identified by people who knew they were in the Army, wearing Globes & Anchors on their uniform and swearing up and down that they had never, ever been in the Army.

[Posteritatis]

31. What's lateral mean? Transferring into another service? (nt)

[SGMRTDARMY]

33. Yes.

[SGMRTDARMY]

32. I really wish I could ask but he passed away 10 years ago.

I think he lateralled after WW2 but before Korea.

[onager]

35. Midway's American Kamikazes

Whenever Midway is mentioned, I always think of the Navy's Torpedo Squadron 8 (VT-8), flying from the carrier USS Hornet.

Calling them "kamikazes" is not quite right, since the aircrews didn't intentionally commit suicide. But they did take on a mission almost certain to kill them. And they knew it.

They were right - of 15 aircraft with 30 crewmen aboard, all 15 planes were shot down and 29 men died. Only Ensign George Gay survived, floating in the ocean all day and night with a (no doubt terrifying) ringside seat to the battle.

Torpron 8 flew the slow and obsolete Douglas TBD Devastator - an aircraft a lot more likely to be the Devastated when it went up against the Japanese Zero.

The old Devastators flew into the battle with no fighter protection, "down on the deck, " straight into devastating head-on fire from the anti-aircraft guns on the Japanese ships and attacking Zeros.

The squadron didn't score a single torpedo hit on a Japanese ship, or shoot down a single Zero with their defensive machine guns.

What they did do was distract the gunners and Zeros from the bigger threat above their heads - American dive bombers. The dive bombers swooped down and, in about 5 minutes, changed the whole history of WWII.

The slaughter of VT-8 was an incredible and magnificent sacrifice.

(A detachment of VT-8 flew into Midway with 6 new TBF-1 Avenger torpedo bombers, the Devastator's replacement. The Avengers had nearly the same bad luck as the parent squadron - 5 aircraft and their crews were lost, 1 Avenger barely made it back to Midway, shot to pieces.)