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Thu Dec 29, 2011, 05:40 PM

Afghan girl's 'horrifying abuse' exposed by video

BBC
By Caroline Wyatt
BBC News, Kabul
29 December 2011

snip~
The girl was left starving after being detained by him and his family for several months.

The case came to light this week when police rescued the teenager, Sahar Gul, who had been locked up in the basement of her in-laws' house.

Police say that she had had her nails and clumps of hair pulled out.

In addition they say she had chunks of flesh cut out with pliers.
~snip

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16356247

Note: Video and the rest of the story can be found by following the above link

104 replies, 17479 views

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Reply Afghan girl's 'horrifying abuse' exposed by video (Original post)
Little Star Dec 2011 OP
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #1
demosincebirth Dec 2011 #2
Gregorian Dec 2011 #4
JCMach1 Jan 2012 #104
riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #6
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #14
uppityperson Dec 2011 #13
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #15
uppityperson Dec 2011 #16
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #17
yardwork Dec 2011 #23
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #26
yardwork Dec 2011 #30
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #31
yardwork Dec 2011 #32
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #33
yardwork Dec 2011 #34
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #35
DeSwiss Dec 2011 #49
MH1 Dec 2011 #46
yardwork Dec 2011 #79
DissedByBush Dec 2011 #48
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #51
DissedByBush Dec 2011 #47
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #54
drmeow Dec 2011 #70
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #71
riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #77
chervilant Jan 2012 #100
AllyCat Dec 2011 #52
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #55
yardwork Dec 2011 #78
Occupy_2012 Dec 2011 #24
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #25
Occupy_2012 Dec 2011 #27
a2liberal Dec 2011 #45
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #56
booley Jan 2012 #101
crim son Dec 2011 #73
Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #85
Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #86
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #29
Occupy_2012 Dec 2011 #39
Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #88
Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #83
Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #87
Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #89
Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #91
Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #92
Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #94
Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #95
Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #96
JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #98
libmom74 Jan 2012 #93
Taverner Dec 2011 #19
McCamy Taylor Dec 2011 #20
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #21
RueVoltaire Dec 2011 #22
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #57
emilyg Dec 2011 #36
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #37
riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #38
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #58
BadtotheboneBob Dec 2011 #69
emilyg Dec 2011 #81
booley Jan 2012 #102
24601 Dec 2011 #43
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #68
librechik Dec 2011 #67
Ilsa Dec 2011 #3
SkyDaddy7 Dec 2011 #7
crim son Dec 2011 #74
SkyDaddy7 Dec 2011 #82
abelenkpe Dec 2011 #8
REP Dec 2011 #9
abelenkpe Dec 2011 #66
Ilsa Dec 2011 #11
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #59
yardwork Jan 2012 #97
booley Jan 2012 #103
boston bean Dec 2011 #5
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #61
Brickbat Dec 2011 #10
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #62
Odin2005 Dec 2011 #12
certainot Dec 2011 #18
Quantess Dec 2011 #28
Tumbulu Dec 2011 #40
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #63
Kablooie Dec 2011 #41
jbpdx Dec 2011 #42
hifiguy Dec 2011 #44
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #64
mainer Dec 2011 #50
Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2011 #53
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #65
Mojeoux Dec 2011 #80
BootinUp Dec 2011 #60
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2011 #72
chervilant Dec 2011 #75
riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #76
RebelOne Jan 2012 #90
JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #99
Stuart G Jan 2012 #84

Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 05:45 PM

1. There is no love lost between me and Islamic cultures. The things women go through in those

cultures, make me puke. WTF? 14 year old brides married to old men? Beatings by the family? It's sickening, and I don't care what anyone says. Revolting.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 05:56 PM

2. I agree, but some here will argue otherwise.

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 06:02 PM

4. I agree, but I also think many of these situations are individuals, not entire religious groups.

Plus, we probably get more of the Islamic news than the Fritzl's of the world.

I'd even go as far as to say that there are things going on in our own punitive system that are nearly, if not equally, as bad.

It's all horrible.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:28 PM

104. It's still a 'tribal' thing... some tribes are profoundly anti-woman... others not so

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 06:26 PM

6. Exactly. +1 nt

 

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:16 PM

14. Yes, I know, but I don't care. A a feminist, I get sick to my stomach when I see

the way women are treated in Islamic cultures, and I will not remain silent as long as that kind of crap is going on.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:13 PM

13. All Islamic cultures or just the fundamentalist ones? I guess FLDS and some fundie Indian cultures

make you puke also, since 14 yr old brides are married to old men and beatings by the family happens.

Personally, fundie cultures get no love from me, of any sort

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:18 PM

15. Fundies can kiss my @$$. But if they start to marry off 14 year olds...

and require their women to cover their head, and ask permission to drive, you betcha I'll be saying the same thing about the treatment of women by fundies.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:21 PM

16. FLDS. Hence the "F".

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:26 PM

17. I consider the FLDS to be Islamic culture with a twist.

Buncha perverse, sicko males, that's what FLDS is.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:10 PM

23. FLDS are not Islamic at all. You seem to be missing the point.

It's not Islam, it's fundamentalism that causes these problems. Fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Jews, fundamentalist Muslims - there is remarkable similarity in the way that extremist fundamentalists of all religions treat women.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:25 PM

26. They are like Islamic cultures - women need permission from males,

women have to dress covered head to foot, their rules allow each man to have a concubinage of women, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:37 PM

30. That is incorrect and a slur on Islam. The vast majority of Muslims don't act this way.

Do you actually know any Muslim people? I do, and none of them require women to follow those kinds of rules, anymore than most Christians or Jews require this. What you are describing is FUNDAMENTALISM.

You are badly misinformed about Islam, and as a result you are making bigoted comments based on ignorance. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but the facts are the facts.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:38 PM

31. As a matter of fact, I do. An Islamic family is a client of mine. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:39 PM

32. A sample size of one.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:43 PM

33. I've read plenty, and more importantly, I've read just about enough about the

bullshit women have to endure in Islamic cultures.

That, is plenty for me.

But you know what? I'll throw you another morsel. My roommate in college was Iranian. Her best friend was shot dead by her dad for sneaking out of the window to meet up with a boy, and 'disgracing the family.' He was not imprisoned because the laws allow for such things, if the males of a family get upset with the behavior of a female family member.

My roommate explained plenty to me about Islamic cultures. She currently lives in France, is married to a Jewish doctor, smokes, drinks, wears any damned thing she wants, and has no intention of going back to that crap.

Now, let's move on. You will not change my mind. Maybe if you were talking to a woman who was okay with male domination of females, you'd get a better audience. I am not that woman.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:46 PM

34. If you are sincere in your concern for women being dominated and abused by men, then you

would care just as much about the abuse of women in fundamentalist Christian and Jewish sects. Instead, you dismiss those as unimportant. The women are just as dead, though.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:47 PM

35. Oh give me a f break.

Run along and find someone who is fine with male domination. Don't talk to me. You might not like what I have to say.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:11 AM

49. +1000

 

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 10:36 AM

46. Perhaps it's a question of scale and frequency?

There's a huge difference in women being ( "merely" ) treated as subordinate to men, vs. having acid thrown in their faces or being stoned to death for being the VICTIM of rape.

And, what is the relative frequency of occurrence, of comparable acts of violence by men against women, in Islamic societies vs western societies? I am sure there is a wide variance among individual cultures, whether Islamic or western, and that some Islamic cultures may even be less awful than some western cultures. But on average, would it be true that for the same population number, the percentage of gender-based violent incidents (at each comparable level of violence) would be significantly higher in Islamic cultures overall?

It would be interesting to see credible studies that put real numbers to that question.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #46)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:15 PM

79. The fact that extreme fundamentalist Islam has been encouraged to spread

by totalitarian governments like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, and many other countries does not mean that all Muslims are fundamentalists.

Christians in many parts of Africa are murdering and executing gay people. Does that mean that all Christians are murderers?

I'm not a big fan of any organized religion, and I see real problems with the patriarchy inherent in the three desert religions, but to say that Islam is bad while giving other religions a pass is wrong, and to say that all Muslims are evil is wrong.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:10 AM

48. There is no equivalence to Christians and Jews

 

You're talking small pockets of populations in the thousands whose victims are few and far between. Their beliefs are condemned by the surrounding culture these practices are usually illegal and punished. The system is working for the victims here.

She's talking about the whole culture. Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, you name it, it's considered acceptable by the society at large, or at least the offenders know they need not fear retribution. This is hundreds of millions of victims among hundreds of millions of people who approve of this.

You've probably heard of the Mossad, the Israeli security service. A while back a former operative wrote a tell-all because the Mossad had become self-serving and evil in itself.

Anyway, one operation was meant to blackmail a middle-aged Saudi. They heard he liked little girls so they hooked him up with a 13 year-old girl for a night and laid out the surveillance photos for him the next day. Do what we say or people you know get the photos.

You know what his reaction was? He asked for copies so he could give to his friends. He was proud of his conquest. The blackmail was a total failure because the Mossad didn't consider that raping a 13 year-old is acceptable in his society. The only problem is if she comes from a family with any standing, and then the issue is basically that the rapist has ruined family property, they're stuck with her because she can't be married off anymore.

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Response to DissedByBush (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:14 AM

51. Exactly! nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 10:53 AM

47. My family knows a Kuwaiti woman

 

She was sent to the US for dental school, and decided to stay when she saw the freedom women have.

And that's Kuwait, one of the most liberal Islamic countries around.

Much of my extended family is also Iranian. They're mainly over here because they were stuck in school here during the revolution, or came later. They wanted to get away from that kind of thing.

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Response to DissedByBush (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:24 AM

54. I don't blame them. Once a woman tastes what freedom is, if she can, she's out of there

What baffles me is, what on earth would give anyone the IDEA that a woman is okay enslaved and dominated by men? It makes no sense, so I don't understand people that defend this sort of thing in any way.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 03:38 PM

70. You are confusing Middle Eastern

fundamentalist Islam with all Islam.

As a feminist who has lived in the Middle East (60% Muslim) and is currently working on a research project looking at counter-radical Muslim discourse in Europe, Southeast Asia, and West Africa I know a little bit about Islam and, in particular, women and Islam.

One of the PhD candidates on our project is a Muslim feminist faculty member at an Islamic university in Indonesia who CHOOSES to wear a head scarf (she also happens to be Wahhabi).

Indonesia has the highest Muslim population in the world followed by (in order) Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Egypt and Nigeria. Iran has only 37% the number of Muslims as Indonesia. Turkey (about the same number of Muslims as Iran), Pakistan and India have all had female heads of state. The populations of Algeria, Morocco, Mail, Senegal, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Mauritania, Comoros, Djibouti, Maldives, and Northern Cyprus are all at least 90% Muslim.

Yes, fundamentalist totalitarian cultures treat women like shit. Yes, theocracies treat women like shit. However, you should not make generalizations about how women are treated by a culture unless you consider the whole of that culture.

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Response to drmeow (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 03:53 PM

71. Sorry. I will not take exceptions. I understand there are exceptions. However, as a whole

the Islamic culture is highly detrimental to women, it is male-dominated, and it exhibits a cruelty to women that I will not gloss over. It matters to me not one iota to me if 1 or 2 women are cool with the thing. I've already said this.

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Response to drmeow (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:43 PM

77. Here we go with the cultural relativism bullshit - again!

 

These patriarchal fundamentalist religions (and currently Islam is the poster child for patriarchal dysfunction) have permeated every aspect of the culture! It's all flawed from top to bottom even as you try to insist that "fundamentalist totalitarian cultures" or "theocracies" are somehow different than... what? "the whole of"... another deeply flawed patriarchal... "culture"? That we should somehow NOT point fingers at all of them because of we need to understand their version of female oppression?

Sarah isn't confusing anything. Women in patriarchal cultures are second class citizens. A few elite women may be allowed to rise to the top but they are anomalies within the power structures of their countries and are usually protected members of powerful political families. Fundamentalist Islam lives in Africa, parts of Russia and China, in the UK, in the US and beyond - this isn't "confusing" middle eastern fundamentalist Islam with all Islam - it's all Islam from one spectrum to the other and it's all patriarchal bullshit.

Your anecdote about your one female PhD candidate does not erase the evidence before everyone's eyes (and as a Wahhabist, your candidate fully agrees to being a second class citizen under Sharia).

Sarah's spot on - this abuse of women must stop. And we must begin to confront the realities of why females are oppressed. Calling people "bigots" because they point out the obvious does nothing to help change this hideous dynamic.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:50 AM

100. Indeed,

women the world over are second class citizens. This power imbalance is damaging and restrictive to our entire species.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:14 AM

52. While I understand your frustration at anyone painting with a broad brush, I think Sarah DID say

that they were like Islamics, not that they were Islamic. Fundamentalism of any stripe is where she was going with the post to which you are responding. I agree with that. I know a few Muslim families and they are not fundamentalists. They are completely wonderful people. I think Americans (among others) do not seem to see the difference.

These Fundamentalist nuts are, well, nuts.

Peace.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:25 AM

55. Thanks! nt

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:10 PM

78. Saying that bigotry is "like Islamic" means that the poster thinks that all Muslim people are bigots

That is a bigoted statement. That's like saying that criminals are "like blacks." It's incredibly offensive.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #15)


Response to Occupy_2012 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:23 PM

25. I know some Bible-banging fundies who are ready to bang their Bibles in my ear...

and I have yet to see them covering their heads. Please point them out to me. And don't talk to me about the Islam-like FLDS and Mormon sects.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #25)


Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 10:19 AM

45. Why do you insist on repeatedly

talking about how FLDS is "Islam-like"? Why aren't fundamentalist Islamic sects (not all Muslims btw) "FLDS-like"? Your anti-Muslim bigotry is clearly showing in all your posts and you would do well to get to know some real-life Muslims other than your extremely limited sample. And up-front disclaimer: I'm not going to respond to any of your replies given what I've seen of your posts already.

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #45)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:27 AM

56. You can call me a bigot all you like if it gives you pleasure. However, I will NEVER, EVER

find acceptable the Islamic male's domination of the female. Let me repeat that: EVER. Hope that was clear. When Islamic males stop that bs, I'll speak about the whole thing very differently. Until then? You bet I won't.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #56)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 05:34 PM

101. And the Muslim men who DON'T oppress women?

Because there are some you know.

Like in the hundreds of millions.

So how does that fit into what you claim?

Your post is a straw man. The problem isn't that you think it's wrong for men to abuse and oppress women. The people you are arguing with believe that same thing. That isn't the position of yours they have a problem with.

The problem people have is you equating being of a religion with being an abuser. Even though the two are separate.

That kind of blindness, the need to link a negative (abuses women) with a benign trait (being Muslim) is part and parcel to being a bigot.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 04:06 PM

73. Actually, there's a fundamentalist Charismatic Christian church a couple blocks from my home,

you know, the kind where they speak in tongues during the ceremony, and women in the congregation are not allowed to wear pants, only long skirts, and they must keep their heads covered. They aren't anything but radical fundamentalist Christians, something I know because I was once stopped by their pastor one afternoon when I walked by their house of worship. One of my neighbors, whose husband was indeed head of the household in the old-fashioned way, attended that church and was submissive to her husband, as were her daughters (hers by a previous marriage) while the four-year-old son who was a product of her current marriage was paraded around like he was an incarnation of the Lord. That neighbor had married into the situation and was extremely unhappy, as were her daughters and in fact one of the daughters ended up in the local mental institution after severely acting out against her stepfather. The man refused to allow flowers in the house or in the yard for fear that they would distract the family from what was really important: God. Eventually the family moved but I do believe their lifestyle was representative of what is expected of the congregation of that local church. There is no question that the females there wear skirts or dresses and head-coverings... in warm weather they often hold sales and other events on the church lawn and it is easy to see their style of dress differs from, say, the styles you'd see at St. John's Catholic Church downtown.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 02:56 PM

85. You need to look outside of your box a little more

The Christian headcovering is a veiling worn by various Christian women from a variety of traditions. Some cover only in church or while praying; most never cover their heads all the time. They refer to 1 Corinthians 11, or to custom, as the basis for their practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_headcovering

You may also want to visit a synagogue or just a Jewish neighborhood. Yarmulkes are still in fashion.

Your posts blame a religion for various cultural traditions, some of which offend those from outside or inside those cultures. Using religious bigotry to fight sexism is not the way to go.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #85)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 03:23 PM

86. I don't care what exceptions there might be. The rule is that Islamic countries have a domination

by males, and a near-total domination over women.

As a feminist I will NOT be politically correct with cultures who have humiliated women, not only throughout history, but also in the present 2012.

When that changes, I will change my view of these cultures. Until such time, exceptions make no difference to me, and females who nod bobble-heading in approval, are not convincing me that they adore their subjugated status.

As for religious bigotry, that is a fallacious argument. Any religion whose basic tenets are humiliating to women, and whose basic tenets ARE FOLLOWED to the present day, are not something I will respect, or keep silent about. EVER.

I repeat. When I see that change, I will definitely change my views of these cultures. Until then, it's going on and I will not remain silent.

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Response to Occupy_2012 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:32 PM

29. Oh for goodness' sakes

I hate it when people point out an exception and try to sell it to me as the rule.

That is NOT the rule. Those tiny groups are EXCEPTIONS, but you're selling them to me like that's American Christianity. Oi frikkin' vei.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #29)


Response to Occupy_2012 (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 03:39 PM

88. They're the rule, right? Christian women in the U.S. are walking around covered head to foot

and asking their males permission to drive? They're being stoned for not covering their ankles, huh? They're being married off at 14, right? They're subject to the whims of the family of the male they're forced to marry, right?

Give me a break with the exceptions. I have a neighbor who is obnoxious to his wife, and he's neither Christian nor Muslim, nor anything. And? So what? Most men in the U.S. are not that way. He's an exception. Please stop giving me exceptions as if these were the rule in the U.S.

Thanks.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 08:58 AM

83. There are tens of thousands of churches like that. Not in your economic class.

 

Still, it is major in the US. Women who do not wear pants, nor make up, who do not cut their hair. These fundie churches are common. They are no exceptions, they are a common type of the dominate faith. I grew up in that stuff, Sarah, and you are dreadfully incorrect. They are a major component of US Christianity. Major.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #83)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 03:35 PM

87. More exceptions. Oh lordy. I'm not interested in exceptions to the rule. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #87)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 06:00 PM

89. You should visit a Muslim country and see for yourself.

Your ignorance and bias is astounding.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #89)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 08:01 PM

91. I have and I did. What now? nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #91)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 08:37 PM

92. Then you should know that Islam is no different than Judaism and Christianity.

Your indictment of one religion while apologizing for others demonstrates a lack of understanding. I sympathize with the plight of women wherever they are repressed, and much of that repression is reinforced by religious fundamentalism, which is a scourge.
We are only slightly ahead in this regard. Muslim countries vary tremendously in terms of the emancipation of women, just as Christian communities vary. Comparing the plight of women in Saudi Arabia and Iran to the freedoms that women enjoy in Turkey and Morocco is like comparing the plight of women in Ireland 30 years ago to the equality already enjoyed by women in northern Europe.
My point is that not all societies change at the same pace and selecting one religion over others, only serves to inflame.
You make good points, but your strategy should not be guided by bigotry.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #92)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 08:58 PM

94. I think you clearly failed to read my previous posts. Read them.

I will not repeat myself.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 09:24 PM

95. No, I read them

You took a horrendous story about a girl who was abused in Afghanistan by vicious and ignorant people, and used it to attack Islam. You made a broad brushed attack on Islam, which is not mentioned in the OP or the BBC article. Meanwhile, you downplayed instances of female subjugation by Christian sects, considering them to be anomalies. The relatives of the victim were arrested by fellow Muslims. Their society and their religion does not condone the brutalization of women or children.
Your posts are inflammatory, as can be seen by the frenzied mob that you have ignited.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #87)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 09:28 PM

96. Then why do you choose this case of brutality to make your case against Islam?

It made the news because it is an exception, not the rule.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #87)

Thu Jan 5, 2012, 09:43 AM

98. May I ask you a personal question?

Obviously you don't have to answer and whether you do or don't, I respect your choice.

Are you a Christian?

Julie

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Response to Occupy_2012 (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 08:46 PM

93. Very creepy!

I've read "The Handmaids Tale" a couple of times and it is scary in it's accuracy as far as how Fundementalist Christians view women.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:53 PM

19. +1000

 

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 10:31 PM

20. This is not ISLAMIC. This is a family of PIMPS.

There are pimps all over the world. They are scum. Even Islam would agree.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 10:43 PM

21. I'm not even talking about the PIMPING. You know that.

I'm referring to EVERYTHING, EVERY SINGLE THING that led to and allowed this CHILD being abused, tortured, and nearly murdered. And this is not a unique case in Islamic cultures.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:00 PM

22. Right on, Sarah - the abuse of women and girls has been tolerated too long!

The religion and culture they hide behind is no defense for these crimes.

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Response to RueVoltaire (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:38 AM

57. You said it perfectly. I'm tired of people defending this because we must respect a religion

Hell no. If the religion and culture are causing women to be massacred 24/7 emotionally, mentally, financially, physically, even if they put out there some bobble head Islamic woman that nods that it's all okay with her and she loves it, well, sorry, it isn't okay, and no one will EVER make me say it is. It's wrong, pure and simple.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:47 PM

36. I'm with you 100%.

 

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Response to emilyg (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:48 PM

37. Thanks! nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:51 PM

38. Me too. I'm up too late to contribute much beyond a +1. But I stand with you. nt

 

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:39 AM

58. Thank you. nt

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Response to emilyg (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 03:29 PM

69. I'm with the both of you...

... and, Sarah, I agree with everything you've said and tried to explain to those who will not listen. It's like they're holding their hands over their ears saying. "Nyah, nyah nyah... Fundie Christians... Nyah, nyah, nyah" etc. If religious women choose to wear headscarves or, as in the case of the Amish and some Mennonites - Bonnets, and if they willingly choose to be subservient to their husbands, so be it. That's their choice. But, they should also have the choice (and right) not to and leave without repercussions. It's the forced marriages, honor-killings, child brides, genital mutilation, denial of basic human and legal rights that I object to. And if anyone thinks it's just as bad here with the Fundie Christians as it is in most Muslim cultures abroad, they are deluded. Period. Oh, and they can call me a bigot, too, if they'd like. Their 'name calling' bothers me not in the least.

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Response to BadtotheboneBob (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:45 PM

81. I like your words - and

 

I'm proud not to be politically correct.

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Response to BadtotheboneBob (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 05:42 PM

102. Many Muslim women do choose to wear head dress

Miillions of Muslim woemn live where such things are not mandated by law. and they do it anyway. I have a friend who converted to Islam and she wears her hajib by choice.

seriously have any of you even bothered to talk to a Muslim women and ask how she and others like her feel?

Did it occur to you that they might find you as offensive as they find religious fundies?

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:00 AM

43. It makes you want to rush out and ask the Taliban to rejoin government. n/t [sarcasism]

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Response to 24601 (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:40 PM

68. I don't see much difference. Until Islamic cultures change their male domination, they will

continue to be male-dominated communities.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:21 PM

67. "Christians" are pretty good at all that stuff too. No one expects The Spanish Inquisition.

humans can be cruel, and not just the ones from cultures we hate.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 05:58 PM

3. There is no excuse for a culture to justify treating

another human being this way, or justify looking away.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 06:59 PM

7. Many here would disagree...

It is not our place to judge other cultures is what they would say.

I on the other hand totally agree with you!!

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Response to SkyDaddy7 (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 04:08 PM

74. Whether or not we are permitted judgement,

do you believe we have the right to invade or attack a country because we judge the culture to be appalling and inhumane? I know, off topic, but I'm curious.

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Response to crim son (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:11 PM

82. Well, in general NO...But...

I do think we have the responsibility to stop countries like Nazi Germany from exterminating an entire group or race of people...Instead of using our military for BS like we did in Iraq.

But NO we should not invade other countries simply due to a difference in culture. However, we should do everything we can diplomatically to put enormous pressure on countries who do things like treating women like slaves.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 07:41 PM

8. You know that horrifying child abuse happens here as well

And has nothing to do with culture or religion. More likely a lack of education.
Recently there was the father and step mother that locked their thirteen year old son in a dog carrier for months, starving him and taking him out only to beat him. Finally they killed him and buried him in the yard.
This girl is lucky in that she was rescued and survived compared to many here in the US. But yeah, very sad story.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 08:18 PM

9. This was a 14-yer-old married off to a 30-year-old who was beaten by the family of her new husband

That is the cultural difference.

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Response to REP (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:12 PM

66. Do you think arranged marriages don't happen here?

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 08:51 PM

11. ITA. It happens here too, and there is no excuse

for brutality, no matter what culture. I hope my post didn't sound like I was speaking only of different cultures from those in the US.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:41 AM

59. Once again, people giving me exceptions as if these were the rule

Well, the culture of the U.S. does not approve of massacring women, of having concubinages, of forcing them to dress covered up under threat of beatings, prison or death, it doesn't approve of a culture of male domination over women.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #59)

Wed Jan 4, 2012, 02:53 PM

97. That's because the U.S. is not a theocracy. If we were, we would be a fundamentalist Christian

theocracy, and all those abuses would be approved and required by our state.

Right now, many of the most visible religious theocracies (dictatorships) are fundamentalist Muslim, but in the past, lots of them have been Christian.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 05:47 PM

103. No... not anymore

But at one time Christian countries were perfectly ok with it.

And there are lots of christians and jews that would happily go back to that if they could force the rest of us.

And as pointed out, for all their stated differences they are remarkably similar on this issue (the Jewish modesty councils don't appear that different from the taliban that used to whip women who they considered immodest. The only difference here is one had sanction.)

It may not be the religion that's the problem.

I am perfectly happy judging cultures. But judge them for what they are, nto what your prejudices think they are.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 06:03 PM

5. That is disgusting. And it's what religion allows.

And don't tell me it doesn't. It's what justifies this brutal behavior.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:44 AM

61. Thanks nt

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 08:32 PM

10. Shameful.

Sometimes cultural norms are fucked up. I don't care that it's someone's culture; when culture interferes with basic human rights, it ceases to be culture. It is a GODDAMN SHAME that this is an issue in the 21st century.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:45 AM

62. Exactly. Just because it's a different culture or a different religion - I don't care either

If it's approving of women being massacred (and it IS), it's repugnant.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 08:52 PM

12. These people are barbarians.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:50 PM

18. there are republicans who would do this if limbaugh said it was okay

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:27 PM

28. The treatment of women in some cultures really does constitute human rights abuse.

The atrocity of human rights violations goes beyond the desire to show respect to other cultures (at least it should, anyway).

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Response to Quantess (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:29 AM

40. agreed, and I would say that it is in most cultures

the females are raised to be submissive and are expected to be dominated by the men.

In cultures where male family members are allowed the right to beat and kill the females.....it is time for these cultures to change or disappear.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:45 AM

63. Quantess, you said it beautifully - it goes beyond our desire to show respect to other cultures nt

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:00 AM

41. The bible has some pretty horrible, archaic rules too...

But no one today, not even the fundies, follow them.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 03:52 AM

42. It's a shame

 

The world is still fixated on a 6,000-year-old religion that was concocted in the Stone Age. Abraham was an asshole.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 09:40 AM

44. Fundamentalist religion, of ANY kind,

 

and laissez faire capitalism are the greatest obstacles to building a humane and sane world.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:48 AM

64. I'm with you, but there are certainly degrees. Leniancy with this 'because it's a different culture'

is just wrong. Dead wrong.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:11 AM

50. Unfortunately true everywhere. India, China, Africa ...

Not necessarily islamic fundamentalism, just cultures that do not respect women's rights.

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Response to mainer (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:14 AM

53. Or warped individuals--like the Austrian man who

kept his daughter prisoner in the basement and fathered her children.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:49 AM

65. Again, Austria does not approve of the massacring of females. An exception is not the rule. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:38 PM

80. My Best Friend Ran Away Because Her Father Said He Would Kill Her

This was in Florida USA in the 60's. He also had business associate husband lined up for her to marry as soon as it was legal in Fla. and she took off.

I have wrestled with this business of condemning all of Islam for the idiocy of the men who take advantage of women and use religion as their justification.

I don't want to be counted among racists who just hate other races anyway and they squawk about Sharia law, like they care.

The Chinese managed to get their citizens to stop smashing the feet bones of little girls, these women hating bastards can stop with their crap too, culture, shmulture.

The most sickening (to me) thing about the stupid Bush wars is that this stupid sexism was not and still has not been addressed. In Afghanistan, women are still oppressed.

The tacit approval of sexual oppression of women by Western governments goes hand in hand with our dependence on Arabian Oil, lets face it.

My friend's name was Ada, she died of Alcohol poisoning. She was always pining for her Mom and her Lebanese culture too, but it's not like she would have ever felt safe going home.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:42 AM

60. Just reading your OP is enough

Not sure I can stomach the video, hope she is getting all the help she needs.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 04:03 PM

72. k&r

 

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 05:49 PM

75. Patriarchy

is the pervasive social construct defining gender relationships in virtually every culture on this planet. The measurable negative effects of patriarchy vary in degree only. We can ill afford to ignore the damaging effects of patriarchy, nor should we 'rank' cultures on the basis of how blatantly their 'version' of patriarchy oppresses their citizenry, especially their women and children.

After more than thirty years of advocacy for survivors of relationship violence (predominantly women and children), I have gained a deep appreciation for the pain and distress commensurate with 'power over' (eg, patriarchy). Patriarchy unflinchingly assigns the vast majority of 'power over' to men. This is a deep wound to our species, for both those who are powerless AND for those who must expend significant energy securing and maintaining their 'power over.'

Patriarchy--indeed, all hierarchy--is a wound of a thousand cuts. Most of us are so accustomed to this social construct, we cannot see how much it damages our species--unless the 'traditions' shaped by a given culture's patriarchy are abhorrent enough to elicit condemnation (as seems to be the case here). Furthermore, we are so accustomed to patriarchy as our social framework, few of us can imagine that there might be a better way. Indeed, most historic efforts to address patriarchy (Feminism, Humanism, Egalitarianism) have been met with derision, or marginalized. AND, those who believe that they benefit the MOST from patriarchy--those who have garnered the most POWER OVER--are working the HARDEST to protect it.

Actually, too many members of this website routinely indulge in misogyny and sexism (both patriarchal paradigms). I feel personally violated every time I see a man post such disgusting observations as, "I'd do her!" or "She's hot, until she opens her mouth..." (that one was in reference to Michelle Malkin). Just this week, someone posted an OP featuring unflattering pictures of Republican women--fair game, I guess, since they're 'Republicans.' I have to remind myself that these poor unfortunates are simply manifesting the damages THEY have sustained in our patriarchal culture.

Perhaps our species is finally recognizing that 'power over' is NOT the same as personal power. Power over is destructive; personal power is constructive. Power over is stultifying; personal power is liberating. Perhaps, if we can acknowledge that patriarchy is destructive and stultifying, we can work toward eliminating patriarchy totally and completely.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #75)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:30 PM

76. Bravo, well said, a 10000 times recced. A brilliant post - thank you. nt

 

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #76)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 06:15 PM

90. Excellent post, especially the part about the Republican wives.

Even though I was not a fan of hers, but whenever any posters would ridicule Laura Bush's clothing or looks, I would chastise them as being juvenile, which they were.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 5, 2012, 09:49 AM

99. Thank you for that.

well done.

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Response to Little Star (Original post)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 12:46 PM

84. See Rule Number One of Reporting News..

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