2 Reports Say Officer's Shooting of Ohio Boy Justified

[Eugene]

Source: ABC News

A white Cleveland police officer was justified in fatally shooting a black 12-year-old boy holding a pellet gun moments after pulling up beside him, according to two outside reviews conducted at the request of the prosecutor investigating the death.

A retired FBI agent and a Denver prosecutor both found the rookie patrolman who shot Tamir Rice exercised a reasonable use of force because he had reason to perceive the boy — described in a 911 call as man waving and pointing a gun — as a serious threat.

The reports were released Saturday night by the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office, which asked for the outside reviews as it presents evidence to a grand jury that will ultimately determine whether Timothy Loehmann will be charged in the death of Tamir last November.

"We are not reaching any conclusions from these reports," Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty said in a statement. "The gathering of evidence continues, and the grand jury will evaluate it all."

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By MITCH STACY COLUMBUS, Ohio — Oct 10, 2015, 9:06 PM ET


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/reports-officers-shooting-ohio-boy-justified-34395208

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Source: Associated Press

Tamir Rice Family Lawyer: Prosecutor Avoiding Accountability

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS CLEVELAND — Oct 10, 2015, 9:11 PM ET

The lawyer for the family of Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old boy holding a pellet gun who was fatally shot by a Cleveland patrolman, says reports finding that the shooting was justified show the prosecutor's office is avoiding accountability.

Subodh Chandra says the Rice family wants the officers held accountable and it seems "the prosecutor's office has been on a 12-month quest" to avoid it.

Reports by outside experts were released Saturday by the Cuyahoga (ky-uh-HOH'-guh) County Prosecutor's Office. They concluded the patrolman had reason to perceive Tamir as a threat before shooting him last November.

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Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tamir-rice-family-lawyer-prosecutor-avoiding-accountability-34395860

[cvoogt]

1. 'perceived as a man' says it all

Black boys = perceived as scary black men;
White boys = perceived as harmless white boys, even when evidence to the contrary is in abundance.

[dsc]

2. the word used was described, not percieved

perceived was used to modify threat. Described was used to modify man. I don't think the shooting was justified but the article said what the article said.

[cvoogt]

5. And what is the difference?

They perceived him as man, thus described him as such.

[dsc]

28. the they isn't the police

it was a witness, who most likely wasn't a cop who called 911.

[TeeYiYi]

23. I think you're splitting hairs...

A retired FBI agent and a Denver prosecutor both found the rookie patrolman who shot Tamir Rice exercised a reasonable use of force because he had reason to perceive the boy — described in a 911 call as man waving and pointing a gun — as a serious threat.

TYY

[dsc]

42. the thing is he didn't perceive anything since he shot before he

had any time to perceive anything.

[roguevalley]

11. all of this is bullshit. this was a child. damn it.

[Xipe Totec]

3. A retired FBI agent and a Denver prosecutor... 'nuff said.

[hollysmom]

18. no FBI agent is ever found guily in a death of a suspect, even when their hands

are tied behind them. just the way the FBI looks at things, we really do have to try and recruit humans into these jobs.

[Chemisse]

38. Exactly

We need impartial panels for this kind of thing. Granted, they need to have law enforcement people on the panel, as they have a different perspective, but it should be overall impartial.

[irisblue]

4. WHAT!!!!

this is bullshit

[cstanleytech]

9. Nonetheless it is their finding.

I assume the police are still facing a wrongful death lawsuit though.

[Downwinder]

6. Guilt or innocence is determined by a trial,

No trial does not mean not guilty.

As the Bush White House proved, you can always find an attorney to give you an opinion you like. Until it is validated in a Court, it is just an opinion.

[OhioChick]

7. 3 Reports

Cuyahoga County releases 3 expert reports on Rice shooting death investigation

8:22 PM, Oct 10, 2015

On Saturday, the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office released 3 expert reports regarding the investigation of the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. Rice was shot and killed by a Cleveland Police officer back in November 2014.

Here is the statement on the reports from the Prosecutor's Office:

"The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office is releasing three expert reports regarding the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice by a Cleveland police officer on November 22, 2014.

Additional analysis has been commissioned and also will be released when completed. As stated when we released the Sheriff's investigative report in June, transparency is needed for an intelligent discussion of the important issues raised in police use of deadly force cases.

More: http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/cuyahoga-county-releases-3-expert-reports-on-rice-shooting-death-investigation

[geomon666]

8. Thankfully there's video of it.

And we have our own eyes that we can use to see that this cop and the people who back him up are full of shit.

[demigoddess]

10. "moments after pulling up"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

less than 2 seconds are not moments!!!!!!!!!!

[George II]

13. I didn't see this before I posted. That "moments" is offensive.

[Chemisse]

39. Moments suggest some consideration of the situation. There was none.

This was such a tragedy. They drove up and shot the kid. No hesitance, no 'put-your-hands-up', no 'drop-the-gun'. Nothing to show they valued the life of a young black boy whatsoever

[George II]

12. It wasn't "moments" after pulling up, it was SECONDS after pulling up - that article is WRONG!

[jtuck004]

14. Based on this logic, they should sit outside gun stores. They would be able to kill a dozen people a

week by charging up on their ass and killing them before they can even show you the gun is harmless.

A bunch of cops are NEVER, in this or the next couple of lifetimes, going to acknowledge that this is far more likely to happen to someone with black skin. That the odds of this happening to a white kid are vanishingly small.

That racism is built into the nature of this occupation by the police. And until it is acknowledged and addressed, we are all enabling a continuing racism.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Murderers. Nothing but. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

16. ugh...what a bunch of bullshit

not surprised, though

[Orrex]

17. Well I guess that settles it.

Move along, move along.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. There is a fucking limit to what people will accept

There is a fucking limit.

You run up against it, well...

[gwheezie]

20. I'm sorry to not be surprised

Out of all the videos of innocent people being killed by police, this is the one I still cannot watch without crying. His sister breaks my heart.

[bvf]

21. And not a word about the cop's

unfitness for duty, as determined by the force he previously resigned from in order to avoid termination.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice

Sickening.

[TeeYiYi]

22. Such bullshit!....

That boy was murdered.

TYY

[Devil Child]

24. Disgusting

But expected, the institution protects it's own. Never admit fault. Game the system with skewed reports.

Why are these outside reviews being conducted by those with inherent bias in favor of law enforcement? An FBI agent, and a retired prosecutor.

Rest In Peace Tamir Rice.

[damnedifIknow]

25. It's no wonder at all that

Two out of three Americans say officers don’t do a good job when it comes to force, fair treatment and accountability. "


Everyone is catching on to the fact that we need some serious reform.

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. They've turned into rogue, recreational killers, as if part of some deranged

Westworld.

[passiveporcupine]

26. Oh Fuck NO!

I am really losing hope here.

[Jesus Malverde]

27. The police man who ran up on him was in fear for his life.

Maybe he shouldn't have driven up to within 5-10 feet of a man with a gun.

Are the authorities still holding the childs body?

[uppityperson]

40. Indeed. Here's a BBC article with a telling but about the "speed of confrontation"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34499044

Maybe if they hadn't sped to within a couple ft of him????

The newbie was wrong in shooting him but the driver, experienced cop out him in the situation and caused this death.

[Joe Chi Minh]

29. Didn't the patrolman have a record of a previous charge for reckless

violence of some kind?

There are so many police 'moonlighting' as recreational, racist murderers, these days, it's hard to keep track. Still at least one has been sentenced to a minimum of 40 years.

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. Why were they allowed to prejudice a fair rial in that way?

[Historic NY]

32. An outside review would be like the Justice Dept.....

wonder why they didn't go there.

[HughBeaumont]

33. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

Every dog-whistle-blowing gun nutter's probably smiling like a Republican who just got blessed by Trump at this story.

A retired FBI officer and a prosecutor . . . yes, because THOSE two are going to give an unbiased opinion.

COME on. What the fuck video were you people watching?

Tim Loehmann seemed to already have his gun unholstered and ready to fire coming out of the vehicle.

Also, who are all of these people Tamir is aiming at? 1 passerby, he just mostly ignored, as he did the 911 caller in the gazebo, and he eventually left. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a deluge of people even at this park.

Also, why would you pull what seems to be 2-3 feet away from a suspected dangerous threat? Do I have to be a cop to know that's just a blatantly stupid idea and in no way part of proper tactics in dealing/negotiating with a supposedly armed suspect?

Are the yee-haw racist cousinhumpers online still going to tell me that Tim Loehmann told him "Hands on your head!!" THREE TIMES?? It proves that people only see what they want to see, as the elapsed time (giving the LEOs the benefit of the doubt) on the screen clock from the time they appear on the screen to the time they shot him in the chest was 3 seconds and some change. That means that they only had two seconds to reel off three (according to the report) "HANDS ON YOUR HEAD!" commands. NOT HAPPENING.

The kid looks like he's just confused as to what to do, which would likely happen if cops stormed up on you yelling random things and you're in your own little world, as a 12 year old likely would be.

Why were they just standing over him doing nothing?

This was a fucking drive-up 2A Death Sentence by a severely incompetent and untrained LEO, you don't have to be a so-called
"expert" to WORK THAT OUT.

[bonniebgood]

34. Apparently what the officers 'believed or assumed' is more important than

reality.. even if the officers thought it was a wild rabid boar and it turned out to be a child, so be it, its justified.

[MrModerate]

35. If the law says . . .

That it's good procedure to shoot a suspect (male, female, adult, or child) without warning, based on a garbled and incomplete radio call, then "the law is a ass."

Based on the limited information made available about these two studies, the officer's justification for murdering Rice was that he was scared.

Not good enough. Not nearly good enough.

[BumRushDaShow]

36. LOE are taught (whether overtly or implied) that black children are animals

and a "menace to society". Until "gun-" (whether "real" or "pellet/air" or "toy&quot wielding or brandishing white children are immediately shot on sight for similar reasons, then this sort of "perception" and resulting aftermath, will continue.

[kacekwl]

37. Watching the video

there is absolutely nothing these officers did that any reasonable person would believe was correct or proper procedure. NOTHING

[Hissyspit]

41. WOW That's utter crap.

Protect their own.

[HeiressofBickworth]

43. Color me surprised in

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9, etc............. nope, not surprised at all.

[pasto76]

44. Im so dismayed that LEOs who talk about this never acknowledge "positive Identification"

"P.I.D."

it is requirement for me as a soldier to have PID before I use lethal force. In Iraq that meant positively IDing a weapon, a person shooting at me or aiming a weapon, placing an IED - the ROE changed a little when I was there. In Conventional Warfare, PID can be as simple as someone wearing the uniform of your designated enemy forces.

real talk, I watched the tamir rice video and wondered at first, what if the kid, faced with cops rolling up on him like that, was pulling out his pellet gun to show them it was only a pellet gun.

Its appalling that city cops can use lethal force so loosely against american citizens. The lack of care afterwards - that we see in almost every video - is unconscionable.

[Vinca]

45. They didn't even order him to put down the gun (let alone verify it was real). They just shot.

I read elsewhere that Ohio is an open carry state. If that's the case, is it a law that applies only to white people? Are black people carrying what is assumed to be a real gun automatically shot? This is shocking.

[sulphurdunn]

46. Know this:

Anytime someone calls the cops to where you are, you become a potential target for lethal violence committed by them no matter what you do or do not do.

[XemaSab]

47. That's white privilege right there

When I call the cops, I can expect them to be polite and helpful. They're not going to arrest me, shoot me, shoot my family members, or treat me like a suspect.

Everyone deserves this.

[sulphurdunn]

48. Don't bet your life on that.