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Thu May 21, 2015, 12:10 AM

 

40 percent of unemployed have quit looking for jobs

Source: CNBC

At a time when 8.5 million Americans still don't have jobs, some 40 percent have given up even looking.

The revelation, contained in a new survey Wednesday showing how much work needs to be done yet in the U.S. labor market, comes as the labor force participation rate remains mired near 37-year lows.
*
Of those out of work and not receiving benefits—those who have quit looking are not eligible—22 percent said their benefits had run out and 32 percent said they weren't eligible.

The decline in labor force participation, in fact, has been a key to the drop of the unemployment rate in the post-recession economy. The jobless rate has slid from a high of 10 percent in October 2009 to its current 5.4 percent, the lowest level since May 2008. However, the participation rate has fallen from 66.1 percent to 62.8 percent during the same period.


Read more: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102694868

114 replies, 12418 views

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Reply 40 percent of unemployed have quit looking for jobs (Original post)
Beauregard May 2015 OP
drm604 May 2015 #1
cstanleytech May 2015 #2
Treant May 2015 #3
yeoman6987 May 2015 #55
wordpix May 2015 #86
cstanleytech May 2015 #93
rpannier May 2015 #6
Lydia Leftcoast May 2015 #113
LeftyMom May 2015 #8
raccoon May 2015 #26
FloriTexan May 2015 #38
Beauregard May 2015 #40
Recursion May 2015 #92
Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #9
sendero May 2015 #18
Fumesucker May 2015 #23
tech3149 May 2015 #32
LiberalEsto May 2015 #41
wordpix May 2015 #80
Big_Mike May 2015 #112
freebrew May 2015 #51
Vincardog May 2015 #76
Recursion May 2015 #91
wordpix May 2015 #79
Brickbat May 2015 #109
Mr.Bill May 2015 #4
Hoyt May 2015 #5
Recursion May 2015 #96
AngryDem001 May 2015 #13
LittleGirl May 2015 #7
FloriTexan May 2015 #39
LittleGirl May 2015 #60
Lagom May 2015 #10
Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #11
sendero May 2015 #19
Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #61
WestSideStory May 2015 #66
Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #69
WestSideStory May 2015 #71
former9thward May 2015 #73
Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #75
Amishman May 2015 #110
Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #111
Recursion May 2015 #97
mahatmakanejeeves May 2015 #24
DCBob May 2015 #68
Recursion May 2015 #98
C Moon May 2015 #12
leveymg May 2015 #20
notadmblnd May 2015 #30
leveymg May 2015 #49
Android3.14 May 2015 #14
LiberalElite May 2015 #16
Novara May 2015 #15
Protalker May 2015 #36
dembotoz May 2015 #17
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #21
Fumesucker May 2015 #27
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #31
SmittynMo May 2015 #22
JoePhilly May 2015 #25
Fumesucker May 2015 #28
JoePhilly May 2015 #29
Fumesucker May 2015 #33
SmittynMo May 2015 #37
Fournier May 2015 #42
Recursion May 2015 #99
Fournier May 2015 #107
Recursion May 2015 #108
tridim May 2015 #34
Fournier May 2015 #43
tridim May 2015 #46
mahatmakanejeeves May 2015 #35
freshwest May 2015 #101
magical thyme May 2015 #44
leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #45
tridim May 2015 #47
leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #48
tridim May 2015 #54
Fournier May 2015 #62
SmittynMo May 2015 #57
whatthehey May 2015 #50
sendero May 2015 #52
tridim May 2015 #56
leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #104
whatthehey May 2015 #58
former9thward May 2015 #74
Recursion May 2015 #82
Larry Engels May 2015 #84
Recursion May 2015 #89
SmittynMo May 2015 #59
Recursion May 2015 #95
leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #105
apnu May 2015 #53
bvar22 May 2015 #70
wordpix May 2015 #85
Recursion May 2015 #90
Recursion May 2015 #103
workinclasszero May 2015 #63
wordpix May 2015 #83
workinclasszero May 2015 #94
Fournier May 2015 #114
Baitball Blogger May 2015 #64
mahatmakanejeeves May 2015 #67
WestSideStory May 2015 #65
MaggieD May 2015 #72
SheilaT May 2015 #77
Larry Engels May 2015 #87
SheilaT May 2015 #100
MBS May 2015 #78
Recursion May 2015 #81
wordpix May 2015 #88
leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #106
rjsquirrel May 2015 #102

Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:25 AM

1. I don't understand how people can stop looking.

Don't they have bills? Don't they need food and housing?

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:32 AM

2. Some have probably ended up homeless which means they have little to no bills others

have probably been forced to move in with relatives and they are being supported by them.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:33 AM

3. Underground economy

Trade, cash transactions, and so on for odd jobs. Which means the government doesn't collect taxes on it.

You'd think they'd be interested in creating regular jobs just for the tax base, but I imagine neither the Republican House nor Senate are particularly interested in actually putting people to work.

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Response to Treant (Reply #3)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:52 AM

55. I still cry when I think about how we had the entire government

 

And what could have been done. Both side care about businesses first.

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Response to Treant (Reply #3)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:11 PM

86. the repukes are just too busy collecting their campaign donations from the Koch-heads

They don't have time for a Jobs & Infrastructure Act.

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Response to Treant (Reply #3)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:27 AM

93. Nonsense, the Republicans want everyone to work......for poverty level wages though.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:39 AM

6. Some are homeless, some do odd jobs, some may be married and has a spouse that works

outside the home

Variety of factors

Probably also depends on tehir age.
I have friends who their 33 year old son and his wife moved in with them. He can't find work and has pretty much given up. She does odd jobs.

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Response to rpannier (Reply #6)

Fri May 22, 2015, 04:14 PM

113. Or some blue collar workers who did heavy physical labor

stay unemployed so long that they reach an age when their former jobs would be difficult to impossible for them.

The Republicanites like to complain about "disability scammers," but many of them are in the category of blue collar workers no longer physically able to perform their former jobs.

I also know single people who were long-term unemployed who hung on by their fingernails by selling their houses, emptying their retirement accounts, and economizing like crazy until they qualified for Social Security.

One of my friends applied for over 2000 jobs. She made it to the interview stage several times, but she was always interviewed by some Heather of a thirty-year-old who would say things like, "You're highly qualified, but I don't think you'd fit into our fast-paced office environment" or "We're not sure that your skills are up to date."

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:59 AM

8. Sometimes people make the rational decision that the job just doesn't exist anymore.

Sometimes they take themselves out of the market while they go to school for something else. Sometimes they're depressed or their health has taken a turn, but they're not officially sick enough to count as retired or disabled. Some jobs are just impossible to get back into after a long period of unemployment, either because there's a glut of workers or just because there's a real or perceived risk that the field will move on without you. Sometimes people are told over and over that they're overqualified for the service jobs that exist and the professional jobs they're educated for aren't hiring: that happens a lot right now because our "recovery" is mostly service jobs that pay shit wages.

It's important to keep in mind two things: first that people are generally rational and do things that make sense, so if you're not understanding their rationale it doesn't mean that rationale does not exist. Second that job searching requires a substantial investment of time and a not insignificant outlay of money (gas, possibly childcare, interview clothes and often more expensive grooming, keeping up professional certifications, some jobs can make you pay for your own health checks or background screening in the application process, etc) and if your job prospects are poor those expenditures may be wasted.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #8)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:50 AM

26. Great post. nt

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #8)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:47 AM

38. Thank you for this...

It's comforting to see someone gets it.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #8)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:54 AM

40. You make it sound nicer than it is. As if it were a matter of choice.

 

A lot of people are just living in desperation, maxing out their credit cards, etc., and sliding into homelessness because there are objectively not enough jobs.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #8)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:25 AM

92. The "discouraged" rate is 0.5%

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate.jsp
http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u4.jsp

U4 is U3 ("the unemployment rate" plus people who have stopped looking for work.

U3 is 5.4%, U4 is 5.9%. So, one half of one percent of the US labor force has stopped looking for work.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:04 AM

9. I know someone who became a live in caretaker....

 

Room and board and small expenses as needed for things like toothpaste, shampoo, etc. She does the shopping and gets the elderly lady to her doctor's appointments, picks up prescriptions, etc.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:36 AM

18. Same reason...

... the conquistadors eventually stopped looking for a city of gold. The jobs are NOT THERE.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:39 AM

23. Looking for a job is expensive and time consuming

Eventually you have to devote yourself to survival at which point you go to the underground economy, couch surfing, odd jobs, picking up scrap metal, buying and selling at the flea market.

In a surprising number of cases doing things like those is more likely to end up with you having a job than strictly "looking for a job" in the traditional sense of resumes, interviews and so on.

Getting by on little to nothing is a 27 x 7 x 365 job, doesn't leave time for much else.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:12 AM

32. I can only reply for myself

I quit working in 2002. Most of my expenses were paid from the profits of selling my home, some from retirement savings. I spent the bulk of that time caring for my elderly parents.
I quit working for a wage because could but at 50 even with an impeccable employment history and a valuable skill set opportunities are limited and dependent on location. It's not so much that I didn't want to work but that the personal costs were greater than the financial reward.
My concern is for those who are not willfully unemployed. If you're above a certain age, you're screwed. If you're just starting out, you will be scammed and exploited at every turn just trying to get a foot in the door.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:36 AM

41. I went on early Social Security at age 62 after 5 years of job-hunting

 

It's not enough to live on, but luckily my husband has a job.
We're trying to pay off both kids' student loans because neither one is able to do so,

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #41)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:50 PM

80. I went on at 62 due to an illness & a year later

I can go back to work but I am not hired even though I'm completely qualified. Call it ageism or whatever it is, but I'm one who has stopped looking and I get by with the underground economy + Soc. Sec. + savings. Hopefully I'll die before the savings are used up.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #41)

Fri May 22, 2015, 03:51 PM

112. My neighbor was 53, but looked 63, in 2008 when the economy tanked

He has been a blue collar worker all his life, working on the assembly lines somewhere in the Midwest. His plant closed, and he tried to find work elsewhere. No one hired him despite glowing recommendations and no missed work in over 20 years. Finally, he could not afford to continue on his own, and had to move in with his son out here. Looking here in SoCal, he again has had no luck, finding only a couple short term, daily pay jobs before completely giving up. He has to make two more years, then he will go on SS.

Hell of a thing when an experienced, good worker cannot find work due to his physical appearance.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:29 AM

51. I'm one...

took early SS to get by. No jobs, why look?

Had a few interviews, seemed hopeful. Always went to younger candidates.

A few were blatant about age factors. Illegal, but who's going to prosecute?

Younger folks probably will eventually just take a min wage job.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:32 PM

76. If you exhaust your benefits you "Quit Looking" on the official record. It has nothing to do with

Reality. If you are over 45 you can look until the cows come home and never find a job.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #76)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:21 AM

91. No, the published unemployment rate is not connected to UI benefits

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.pdf

BLS conducts a monthly survey of about 100,000 people and asks questions like:

1. Does anyone in this household have a business or farm?
2. Last week, did you do any work for (either) pay (or profit)?
If the answer to question 1 is "yes" and the answer to question 2 is "no," the next
question is:
3. Last week, did you do any unpaid work in the family business or farm?
For those who reply "no" to both questions 2 and 3, the next key questions used to
determine employment status are:
4. Last week, (in addition to the business) did you have a job, either full or part
time? Include any job from which you were temporarily absent.
5. Last week, were you on layoff from a job?
6. What was the main reason you were absent from work last week?
For those who respond "yes" to question 5 about being on layoff, the following
questions are asked:
7. Has your employer given you a date to return to work?
If "no," the next question is:
8. Have you been given any indication that you will be recalled to work within the
next 6 months?
If the responses to either question 7 or 8 indicate that the person expects to be
recalled from layoff, he or she is counted as unemployed. For those who were
reported as having no job or business from which they were absent or on layoff, the
next question is:
9. Have you been doing anything to find work during the last 4 weeks?
For those who say "yes," the next question is:
10. What are all of the things you have done to find work during the last 4 weeks?
If an active method of looking for work, such as those listed at the beginning of this
section, is mentioned, the following question is asked:
11. Last week, could you have started a job if one had been offered?


Based on the responses, those individuals are categorized as employed, underemployed, unemployed, or out of the labor force. A big computer program then extrapolates those data based on what the Census tells us about the national population, and they come up with five different unemployment levels.

The BLS then compiles these numbers into 6 different unemployment rates:

U1: People not working, for any reason, for 15 weeks or longer (long-term unemployed)
U2: People who lost their jobs or completed temporary work
U3: People who are not working but have actively looked for a job in the past 4 weeks (this is "The Unemployment Rate ®"
U4: U3 + people in U2 who are not actively looking for work
U5: Roughly, U4 + day / casual laborers
U6: U5 + people working part time who want to work full time

Currently, those rates in the US are:
U1: 2.3%
U2: 2.6%
U3: 5.4%
U4: 5.9%
U5: 6.7%
U6: 10.8%

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:45 PM

79. underground economy

Some sell guns, drugs or their bodies.

Some barter goods and services.

Some grow big gardens and keep farm animals.

Some travel cash only.

Some do a combination.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #1)

Fri May 22, 2015, 10:29 AM

109. In my case, I had skills that weren't necessarily needed in the rural area we live in.

Spouse's job was pretty good, and so I stopped looking for a job and started freelancing.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:05 AM

4. I don't know what percentage I represent,

but I quit looking for work to retire earlier than planned. This was made possible by the ACA. The only reason I was looking for work (my former employer had gone out of business after the owner passed away) was to hopefully get a job, any job, that provided health insurance. I know several others in the same situation. They were only working to provide health insurance for themselves and their spouse.

The ACA made retiring possible by providing health insurance I could afford with my retirement income.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #4)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:25 AM

5. Good point. I read somewhere that something like 2 million planned on retiring early because they

could get health insurance now without worrying about preexisting conditions.

But I'm sure too many poor unemployed just gave up and are living an austere existence. That's not right.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:47 AM

96. The average retirement age has shot up since ACA passed, though

I'm still not sure what to make of that.



OK, maybe "shot up" is an exaggeration, but that's definitely a significant increase.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #4)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:18 AM

13. But...but....but....

The ACA is EBIL!!!

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:56 AM

7. I quit looking

and my spouse supports me. I'm 55 and I'll probably never be able to find work again. Thankfully, his income is high enough to keep us out of poverty. He's been a victim of reorganizations in the past 5 yrs and we've had to move twice in those years. Thankfully again, the company provided those funds and methods. We just had to pick up what they wouldn't cover which is still significant. Job security at our age would be a true blessing.

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Response to LittleGirl (Reply #7)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:48 AM

39. This is my situation. ...

Except hubby lost his job.

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Response to FloriTexan (Reply #39)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:26 PM

60. sorry to see that.

hugs.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:19 AM

10. labor force participation chart

 

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Response to Lagom (Reply #10)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:01 AM

11. Republicans look at that chart and claim Obama is encouraging welfare....

 

I look at it and see baby boomers retiring and thank Reagan for having the foresight to increase payments into Social Security for this time.

(That drives Baggers NUTS)

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:38 AM

19. That would be correct...

... is you weren't aware of the fact that most newly acquired jobs are going to people over 50.

The drop in the labor participation rate might have a little to do with boomer retirement, but not much. Most boomers can't retire, they don't have a pension and they don't have savings.

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Response to sendero (Reply #19)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:27 PM

61. Some of those over 50 types are having to take lower pay that the younger set too....

 

IOW: High turnover.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:35 PM

66. Except labor force participation 25-54 is also dropping

 

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Response to WestSideStory (Reply #66)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:31 PM

69. Republicans keep blocking actual jobs.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #69)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:21 PM

71. Agreed. The Fed too is not helping.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:12 PM

73. The labor participation rate is going down in the 24-54 age group.

It is not the baby boomers retiring.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #73)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:51 PM

75. The chart is misleading anyway. 62% to 68% makes 1 or 2% look like a huge difference.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #75)

Fri May 22, 2015, 10:48 AM

110. when a percentage is more than a million people, 1-2% IS a huge difference

There is a lot going on behind it, but it boils down to not enough jobs to go around.

New college graduates complain that all jobs require years of experience they don't have and can't get.

The gray haired crowd claim that they are discriminated against on account of age.

Both are terrible real problems, but the cause is that there are still plenty of experienced but younger people out of work (the 30-40 crowd) and employers can cherry pick the demographic they see as most desirable. If there were enough jobs being created, employers would have to reach outside of their comfort zone and hire younger or older than ideal.

It doesn't help that most employers are putting the squeeze on existing workers and forcing one person to do the work of two. In a better job market the employee would get fed up and leave for somewhere else. But in the current economy, they count themselves lucky to have a job and drown their frustrations in alcohol after work.

This sucks.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #110)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:00 PM

111. The Republican solution is to get everyone off the government teat and give tax cuts to the rich.

 

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Response to former9thward (Reply #73)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:49 AM

97. No, that's people going on SSI and SSDI

The U3 is 5.4%, and the U4 is 5.9%, which means that one half of one percent of people over 15 would like to work, aren't in jail, aren't in the military, aren't on SSI or SDI, but have given up looking for jobs.

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Response to Lagom (Reply #10)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:45 AM

24. About "FRED"

Meet FRED, every wonk’s secret weapon

FRED stands for Federal Reserve Economic Data. It serves as an online clearinghouse for a wealth of numbers: unemployment rates, prices of goods, GDP and CPI, things common and obscure. Today, FRED is more than a little bit famous, thanks to the public’s fascination with economic data.

Federal Reserve Economic Data

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Response to Lagom (Reply #10)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:12 PM

68. Most looking at that graph dont notice that it started dropping around year 2000.

That trend had already started... for whatever reasons... and hasn't stopped yet.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #68)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:07 AM

98. The average retirement age in 2000 was 55

So, that drop was the start of the baby boom's retirement.

The average age of retirement has gone up since then (it's 62 now), but the cohort is so big that it still pushes the labor force participation numbers down.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:05 AM

12. Here.

Doing part time freelance work. Still looking for full time, but my heart's not in it after this long.

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Response to C Moon (Reply #12)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:06 AM

20. Exactly. Involuntary premature retirement and underemployment is rampant among >50 year olds.

New graduates are also increasingly unable to find employment related to their fields of study. Entry-level jobs often don't pay a living wage for persons with large student loan burdens. Often, these recent grads return home to live with their parents, one or both of which are underemployed or involuntarily retired.

A double-whammy.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #20)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:06 AM

30. The state of Michigan is hiring for the DMV aka Secretary of State. Starting pay, 11.00 an hour

who can live on that? Me? I made my own job. I clean houses.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #30)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:19 AM

49. Entry-level jobs about what you would make bussing tables or as a cashier.

Entry-level jobs are not only scarce, a lot of employers expect new grads to work for free or next to nothing as Interns or Trainees.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:13 AM

14. Something wrong here

 

Why do stories like this evoke the vision of a person sitting around doing nothing like a depressed Stimpy muttering "I don't care"?

I want to know the percentage of people who "give up" that actually chose to become primary caregivers at home, returned to school for training, or retired.

I have been unemployed at times, but never had the thought cross my mind to just freeload. Calories burn; stuff happens.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #14)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:59 AM

16. Stories like this don't evoke that vision for me which

sorry to say seems to be a lot like the GOP RW "they're all moochers" BS.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:53 AM

15. I cashed out all my retirement to survive

I haven't quit looking but I have quit hoping. Too educated to get low-paying unskilled jobs, too experienced to be considered for entry level anything even though I'd be glad to start from the bottom again. When I run out of money I'll be homeless.

The stats don't count people like me, scared shitless of a very bleak future without work, pushed out of the workforce by employers who won't even look at me. Age discrimination exists. I'm in my 50s and won't be considered for anything remotely physical. Can't get a menial job. No opportunities in the career I built for myself - they're hiring young people before me. They assume I'll ask for a large salary and they're wrong. I'd be happy to claw my way back up from the bottom. I just need a fucking job.

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Response to Novara (Reply #15)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:24 AM

36. Take heart!

I was 52, felt that. I took part-time and then got a job. I have been worked hard, long for less. I do it for a few years, quit, recharge and do it again I am 65 and will retire in a month. I will play over summer and get another position in the fall. Work long hard cheap, someone will pick you up. Good luck.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:06 AM

17. 62 in 2 week or I would be totally screwed

Started my own business just starting to be worthwhile now after 3 years
Between ss and business might be ok

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:20 AM

21. I'm alway suspicious of on-line stories that cite to studies ...

 

but fail to identify the study ... More so, when the source of the story is a news source that doesn't line to the study; but, embeds a video and two links to other stories.

Maybe I missed it.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #21)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:51 AM

27. It was a Harris poll done for Express Employment

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/05/40_of_the_unemployed_have_stop.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Forty percent of the unemployed have given up looking for work, according to a Harris Poll released Wednesday.

The poll, "The State of the Unemployed," was done for the Oklahoma City-based Express Employment Professionals. The national staffing company has 25 offices in Ohio. The survey takes a close look at the jobless in a time when unemployment rates are falling.

This is the second year the company has conducted such a poll. Last year, 47 percent of people without jobs had given up looking. Robert Funk, the company's CEO and a former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, said the number is still too high, especially since the nation's unemployment rate for April was 5.4 percent, down 0.8 of a percentage point from the year before.


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #27)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:10 AM

31. Thanks.

 

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:25 AM

22. I quit looking. Here's the story

Last edited Thu May 21, 2015, 09:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Its almost hopeless trying to find a decent paying job. This is what I found.

I'm 60 and my wife is retired on SS and a small pension. No way we can survive on that. Monthly, I am transferring out or our retirement savings to cover the bills. Thank God we were smart enough to save when we both had decent jobs. We have enough to make it until I retire at 62, and then we should be OK.

I have been doing contract IT work for years. I've been in IT my entire career. Some years were good. Most were not. I'm currently unemployed. In the past 2 of 3 interviews, there were questions like, what year did you graduate? Huh? What? It don't take a brain surgeon to figure out what they were seeking. My age!!!!. I have found for anyone over 50, it is extremely difficult to find a job. In one interview, I actually asked him if he was sure he wanted to ask that question. His answer was sure, I graduated in 1982. I gave him my honest answer and the standard rejection letter soon followed. No one wants old farts with many years of experience.

When my wife retired a year ago, we had to get insurance and thank God for the ACA. Its a bronze plan, and don't really cover shit but wellness visits and the deductibles are 6K. Not the best, but at least its insurance. We pay a reaspectable amount based on her income only. We get 12K a year in tax credits. If I go back to work, part time or full time, it has to be good enough to offset the decrease in tax credits I will have to pay back at the end of the year. If I make more than 25K a year, I have to pay all the 12K back. It's not worth it. I figured that if I make the 25k a year, pay 12K back in tax credits, and then pay taxes on the 25k, my take home pay would be 20% of what I make. That's hardly not worth it. Who wants to work for 20% of your take home pay? So the option we have taken is to retire early, spend our hard earned money to make ends meet until I retire.

The ACA has saved our ass. Thank God for Obama.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:47 AM

25. Ah RW talking point day on DU.

When the traditional economic measures don't show what you want .... Find new metrics!!!!

A drop in participation rate that was predicted decades ago based on baby boom demographics is suddenly a big problem.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #25)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:56 AM

28. Back when the prediction was done the assumption was there would be pensions

Now there are few pensions and most people of retirement age can't afford to retire, they simply don't have the money to live a non Dickensian lifestyle.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #28)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:04 AM

29. The recovery of the stock market, and 401ks has helped.

All pensions are not gone, and 401ks were not included in those predictions either. The recovery in 401ks has helped allow people to retire.

It remains a fact that the drop in participation rate was predicted based on demographics. Folks claiming its some big surprise are full of it.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #29)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:12 AM

33. Why such a dismissive attitude toward the distress of others?

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/pf/emergency_fund/

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- When the unexpected strikes, most Americans aren't prepared to pay for it.

A majority, or 64%, of Americans don't have enough cash on hand to handle a $1,000 emergency expense, according to a survey by the National Foundation for Credit Counseling, or NFCC, released on Wednesday.

Only 36% said they would tap their rainy day funds for an emergency. The rest of the 2,700 people polled said that they would have to go to other extremes to cover an unexpected expense, such as borrowing money or taking out a cash advance on a credit card.

"It's alarming," said Gail Cunningham, a spokeswoman for the Washington, DC-based non-profit. "For consumers who live paycheck to paycheck -- having spent tomorrow's money -- an unplanned expense can truly put them in financial distress," she noted.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #29)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:27 AM

37. 401K? Pensions?

401K's are risky at best. There is nothing in place to stop the disaster we had years ago.

Pensions in any job is hard as hell to find anymore. Many large companies are no longer offering it. A large local health care company is no longer offering pension for all new hires.

I don't see how in the hell we(the lower and middle class) can honestly get ahead.

I feel so sorry my kids and grandkids.

Politics, especially the corrupt SC and Citizens United, will be the destruction of the middle class.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #28)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:41 AM

42. "Non-Dickensian."

 

Nice choice of words, evoking 19th Century London, which our cities are beginning to resemble.

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Response to Fournier (Reply #42)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:08 AM

99. Huh? No. Dickens's London looks like today's Mumbai or Lagos: young

That's why Dickens's London had such incredibly high crime rates compared to US cities today.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #99)

Fri May 22, 2015, 10:16 AM

107. Vivekananda! Bliss to all beings! Happiness to all beings!

 

I guess you must know all about "Mumbai," O sword of Ramakrishna!

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Response to Fournier (Reply #107)

Fri May 22, 2015, 10:23 AM

108. "All about"? No, that would be the study of many lifetimes

I'm learning my corner of it, somewhat. The ship on which Key penned "The Star Spangled Banner" was laid down here, for instance. And Petit's development of cotton mills was the death knell of the Confederate States of America, in that it gave the UK a reason to drop their support. Stuff like that. But as far as the soul of a city of 20 million? That's beyond anybody to learn in just a few years.

Vivekananda's Kolkata in 1900 would be another example of a "young" city, though currently it's seeing a youth drain as the children move to Mumbai or Hyderabad.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:16 AM

34. My coworker, who constantly worries about losing his job...

Has already declared that he "Won't be able to find a new job, so why bother?"

Should we add him to the statistics? Or should we not, because he wants to give up without even trying?

How many teabaggers stopped looking for work just to stick it to Obama? Most of them seem to be open to self-sabotage for that exact purpose.

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Response to tridim (Reply #34)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:54 AM

43. Sorry, I don't understand your post.

 

Your co-worker is worried about losing his job, like most people are today. What does that have to do with teabaggers? Just asking.

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Response to Fournier (Reply #43)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:09 AM

46. He is worried because Obama.

And he isn't going to lose his job, unless he gets fired for complaining so much.

Do you have a link for your "Most people are worried about losing their job" statistic?

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:17 AM

35. If you read the comments to that story, you will find this exchange:

Last edited Thu May 21, 2015, 10:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Josef1980 > Washington Nearsider • 31 minutes ago

Wow you just have no clue do you??? Once more how is 2.5 million more than 5.4% of 157 million in the workforce????

Washington Nearsider > Josef1980 • 31 minutes ago

Asked and answered:

From the DoL:

Out of those 155 million individuals in the labor force, 142,415,000 are currently employed, with unemployment hovering around 8.2 percent.

That's how.

If you Google that phrase, "142,415,000 are currently employed," you'll see that it refers to data in the Bureau of Labor Statistics monthly employment report for June 2012 (the one issued in July 2012). The statistic is three years old. I am not registered at CNBC, so I can't post a rebuttal.

As Abraham Lincoln said,

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #35)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:57 AM

101. I don't get it. 142,415,000 is half the USA population. Of the other half, there are children, the

disabled and retired for whatever reason. In the former category, they will be working. In the latter categoy, they put in enough time to retire, whether they like it or not.

Most of those I know who took early retirement, are not fully disabled, but combined with age were not able to work well, are happy as can be that they have that check coming in. That is how they live.

When I hear big percentages of people are not working, I take into account the population as a whole. We're not designed as human beings to be at work from birth or death.

At some time, one will not be able to work no matter what anyone thinks about them. A lot of people are passing on and leaving the workforce, most did not work on their last weeks or months of life, and children are not ready to work.

There are communities that don't fit a standard demographic such as these charts show. They work with their familiies in their business, or whatever. No, they will not be the ones getting high pay, and may not be making enough in some people's eyes to get by but they are working and getting by because of family ownership.

People I know who went on early retirement because of their health and job prospects, were very upset at first. Some of them still had mortgage to pay, so they adjusted. It wasn't being retired that made them poor, it was that they had not had situations where they could save enough.

I sold two homes to pay for my family's healthcare before the ACA. I will never own another and my rent is eating me alive and there's nothing I can do about it except save up enough money to move when the day comes I am priced out. This is not a new situation, it's been going on longer than i've been alive.

So please explain to me the meaning of these nubers. Also someone down thread said the OP source is Rick Santelli who is an extreme huckster, but you have down well with official figures.

I also think this is also due to the areas people live in. My area is full of good paying jobs, and above minimum wage, that are almost always hiring. And many jobs are keeping or hiring older workers because others have retired. We have a lot of emigrant labor and young people who are working in union jobs and doing good. This is not a RTW state.

I am sure that there are many people, such as the youth in Baltimore, who are lacking in good paying jobs or any jobs. I think this is a function of racism. I don't disagree with what appears to be your conclusionn , that things are bad. Educate me.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:59 AM

44. I'll be opting for early SS this fall

 

I'll continue the hospital per diem job; have quit the other p/t job. The hospital per diem will hopefully keep going a couple more years while I repair and try to sell my house and pay down student loans. I'm in the income based student loan repayment system, but fear that a future administration will trash that program.

Both jobs are downsizing through attrition. At the hospital, as a per diem I'm the 1st to get cut. But there are 2 regular techs of retirement age and 2 per diem techs older than I am, one of whom has cut way back and the other is on desk work due to problems with her hands.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:03 AM

45. None of my friends who have lost jobs have found new work.

They are all about 60. They tried for about 2 years and then gave up. They are just using up all their savings trying to stay afloat until SS kicks in.

None of them have even been able to get an interview.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #45)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:11 AM

47. What kind of work are they looking for?

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Response to tridim (Reply #47)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:15 AM

48. They are all office workers.

Most of the people I know worked in the mtg. industry. But one person works as a contract employee for FEMA. She has been actively looking at anything for over 2 years.

Everyone else has just given up trying. No one expected to retire this early. They all thought they would work to 66 and then get SS. Instead they have all had to live on their retirement funds and whatever money they could make doing odd jobs for people. So now the retirement money is gone and they will be stuck trying to live on SS alone.

It's a real mess for people my age. Well, anyone over 50.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #48)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:49 AM

54. My office is hiring, pretty much non-stop.

As are thousands of other offices across my average-sized mid-west city.

I'm really confused.. We just hired a 58 year old this week in the customer service dept. How does that happen?

I'm younger, but recruiters are all over me to change jobs. It's a daily thing. Again, I'm confused.

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Response to tridim (Reply #54)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:58 PM

62. Does telemarketing count?

 

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #45)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:57 AM

57. Tell me about it

I've been out of work for almost 2 years now. I NEVER thought the end of my career would ever end like this. Especially in IT.

It's pretty sad as to what I have experienced in the past 10 years. It all started with Bush. Thanks W.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:29 AM

50. And we have sound studies explaining all of this

For the people who like thinking and learning:

http://philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/publications/research-rap/2013/on-the-causes-of-declines-in-the-labor-force-participation-rate.pdf

For the Twitterons with the attention span of a gnat:

Between the first quarter of 2000 and the final quarter of 2013, the participation rate declined more than 4 percentage points. Roughly 65 percent of the decline is accounted for by retirement and disability. The increase in nonparticipation due to retirement has occurred only after around 2010, while nonparticipation due to disability has been steadily increasing over the past 13 years. Similarly, nonparticipation due to schooling has been steadily increasing and has been another major contributor to the secular decline in the participation rate since 2000.
2. The number of those who did not look for a job (thus being out of the labor force) even though they wanted a job increased significantly between the fourth quarter of 2007 and the end of 2011. This group of “discouraged workers” explains roughly 30
percent of the total decline (around 2 percentage points) in the participation rate over the same period. Between the first quarter of 2012 and the fourth quarter of 2013, the participation rate of this group has been roughly flat.
3. Almost all of the decline (80 percent) in the participation rate since the first quarter of 2012 is accounted for by the increase in nonparticipation due to retirement.6 This implies that the decline in the unemployment rate since 2012 is not due to more discouraged workers dropping out of the labor force.
4. The likelihood of those who left the labor force due to retirement or disability rejoining the labor force is small and has been largely insensitive to business cycle conditions in the past, suggesting that the decision to leave the labor force for those two reasons is more or less permanent.

Even shorter summary: The thread title is BS and implies retirees, students and disabled people have "given up" rather than just being in life stages that do not, and should not, include working for pay.

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Response to whatthehey (Reply #50)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:46 AM

52. What a pantload of horsecrap..

.... Almost all of the decline (80 percent) in the participation rate since the first quarter of 2012 is accounted for by the increase in nonparticipation due to [font size=+2]FORCED [/font size] retirement

Fixed it for you. It's not really "retirement" when you leave the workforce because no one will hire you.

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Response to sendero (Reply #52)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:54 AM

56. Who is FORCING people to retire early?

Obama?

Nobody is being forced to retire unless it is a specific company policy. Why did you say that? It's not true.

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Response to tridim (Reply #56)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:31 AM

104. i got forced out

Made too much money for the job. The other 2 people with the same job also were let go. They hired young, cheaper people. People who were better on computers than we were.

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Response to sendero (Reply #52)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:57 AM

58. So there wasn't a baby boom starting 68 yrs ago after all?

Who knew, all those demographers and economists with their high falutin PhD's and their book larnin' and their research facilities can't hold a candle to good ol' consarned anecdotal poutrage when it comes to the troof eh?

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Response to whatthehey (Reply #58)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:21 PM

74. Labor participation rate is going down in the 24-54 age group.

I know the rah rah crowd tries to say it is the baby boomers.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #74)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:01 PM

82. But it's still higher than in any western European country

Yes, one of the side effects of making health insurance more accessible is that some young people would prefer not to work; this is what happens in Europe. It's not a bad thing.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #82)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:07 PM

84. Oh, really!

 

Listen, Vivekananda, the unemployment rate in Hong Kong is 3.3%. Meditate on that.

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Response to Larry Engels (Reply #84)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:17 PM

89. And Hong Kong's labor force participation rate is 61%, meaning a greater % of Americans have jobs

than Hong Kongians (Hong Kongese?)

96.7% * 61% = 58.99%. 58.99% of adults in Hong Kong have jobs
94.5% * 63% = 59.54%. 59.54% of adults in the US have jobs

Meditate on that.

EDIT: that bothered me enough I asked the protocol officer. "Hong Konger", apparently.

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Response to sendero (Reply #52)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:04 PM

59. Because no one will hire you

Exactly. And yes, it's not retirement. No income. Let's call it "depression pre retirement period."

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Response to sendero (Reply #52)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:45 AM

95. That makes no sense, as the average retirement age is going up, not down



People are retiring later, not sooner.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #95)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:35 AM

105. i think you read this wrong.

The expexted retirement age was 66. The actual retirement age was 62. But the people i know got forced out when they were in their. 50's..

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:49 AM

53. Globalization killed the American economy

We've been in a slow decline ever since.

And now that the genie is out of the bottle, we will continue to diminish because all of our production has been shipped over seas. We are becoming the Western Hemisphere version of Europe: Important, but not top dog.

Whomever makes the stuff, is king. Right now, that's China until production shifts elsewhere.

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Response to apnu (Reply #53)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:18 PM

70. "Globalization" didn't cause anything.

Globalization started when the first caveman journeyed to the next cave and traded some spear points for fresh meat. It hasn't stopped since then.

The way you used "Globalization" makes it sound like some inevitable magic thing that just "happened" all of a sudden.

The problem in the USA is NOT "Globalization", but BAD TRADE DEALS that force the American worker to compete with Slave Labor in a Race to the Bottom, and THAT has only been going on since the 80's when the 1%ers invented it to avoid Human Rights, LABOR Rights, and Environmental Protections. THEY like to blame the Boogie Man "Globalization" for our problems, when it is their own fat, greedy, privileged asses that has caused the damage to our Middle/Working Class.

We could reverse it with GOOD Trade Policies, but it would take a couple of decades to undo the damage wrought by the "Free Traders" IF we started TODAY, but, unfortunately, we are headed in the WRONG direction.




You will know them by their WORKS.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #70)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:08 PM

85. all good points, thanks for the clarity

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #70)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:08 AM

90. Then why don't we have one with China? (nt)

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Response to apnu (Reply #53)

Fri May 22, 2015, 05:59 AM

103. Globalization started in the early 1600's or so

Interesting story:

The other day I was looking for the for the flamingos near the docks (I live in Mumbai and they've been staying later every year, so sort of like the "first robin of spring" people look for the "last flamingo before the rains" now) and I saw a plaque about the former site of Duncan Dock in Sewri (the salt flats the flamingos come to).

The Star-Spangled Banner was written in Baltimore Harbor, on the deck of the HMS Minden. The Minden was laid down in Bombay (as Mumbai was known then) at Duncan's Dock as part of the Ganges class of frigate which was chosen to replace the yankee-built ships that England couldn't get anymore, we having independenced ourselves from them.

Fast-forward 50 years, and the combination of the Union blockade and English distaste for supporting the CSA after the Emancipation Proclamation, and England needs a new source for cotton. They consider Cairo but settle on Bombay, and the mills that become the economic powerhouse of south Asia for the next 120 years are born.

This should really be a James Burke "Connections" episode...

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:12 PM

63. If you lose your job post 50

Hardly anyone wants to hire you.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #63)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:04 PM

83. create your own jobs - if I did it, you can, too

Seriously, I'm 63 y.o and I've worked at everything---full time, part time, one-time gigs, professional, non-professional, bartering, getting paid min. wage, getting paid a lot, working for others and having my own business. Having my own business was/is best for a number of reasons, the main one being you are the boss! Also, you may be paid for what you like to do and what you're good at. There are also legitimate tax deductions you can take. Going into business isn't for everyone but if you're good at something people will pay for, know 8th gr. math well, are reliable and have reasonably good organizational skills, you will be successful.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #83)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:34 AM

94. I did get another job

thank God but lost quite a bit of pay. We are squeaking by but what I really dread is health care bills.

I know for a fact I will die penniless and bankrupt in the end because of our damnable health care system in this country.

I just hope I can avoid destroying my wifes life in the process.

And thanks for the tips and your optimism.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #83)

Fri May 22, 2015, 10:53 PM

114. How can you generalize from one case so irresponsibly?

 

With all due respect, "Start your own business" as a solution to mass unemployment is an old Republican BS talking point. You were just lucky.

According to Bloomberg, 8 out of 10 entrepreneurs who start businesses fail within the first 18 months. A whopping 80% crash and burn.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwagner/2013/09/12/five-reasons-8-out-of-10-businesses-fail/

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:27 PM

64. Pointing out this statistical game that everyone plays

(both parties do it, depending on who is in office) is important for us to understand. It is not part of a right-wing screed. It is a fact. We do not have a way to measure how many people stop looking, so the unemployment rate does not show us the real picture.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #64)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:25 PM

67. "We do not have a way to measure how many people stop looking,..."

People who stop looking are called "discouraged workers." I'm pretty sure I provide a link to that information every month. For example, from two weeks ago:

Payroll employment rises by 223,000 in April; jobless rate essentially unchanged (5.4%)

Please scroll down.

[center]The Large Print Giveth, and the Fine Print Taketh Away.[/center]

A DU'er pointed out several months ago that, if I'm going to post the link to the press release, I should include the link to all the tables that provide additional ways of examining the data. Specifically, I should post a link to Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization. Table A-15 includes those who are not considered unemployed, on the grounds that they have become discouraged about the prospects of finding a job and have given up looking. Here are those links.

Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

Several subsets of workers or ex-workers are listed in Table A-15:

U-1 Persons unemployed 15 weeks or longer, as a percent of the civilian labor force

U-2 Job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs, as a percent of the civilian labor force

U-3 Total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (official unemployment rate)

U-4 Total unemployed plus discouraged workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus discouraged workers

U-5 Total unemployed, plus discouraged workers, plus all other persons marginally attached to the labor force, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force

U-6 Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force

NOTE: Persons marginally attached to the labor force are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule. Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data.

Best wishes.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:31 PM

65. You're not toeing the official Democratic Party line!!!

 

The economy is doing great. The stock market is at all time highs (IOW, the rich are getting richer).

(No, the current state of the economy is not "Obama's fault". More fairly, probably the Fed, and as a result of still having to pay for 2 wars on credit. But the Fed board deserves a lot of blame for the current state of inequality, along with a Congress that has imposed much higher tax rates in effect on the poor than the rich.)

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:42 PM

72. More right wing talking points....

 

... from the home of Rick Santelli and the Tea Party. Because DU just can't get enough of them.


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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:50 PM

77. I am apparently the only person in this entire country who got a job

 

after the age of 60. Actually, I got three different jobs. Was fired from the first two, but that's another story entirely.

Maybe you can't get a professional position like the one you formerly had, and you're going to have to be willing to accept a lot less money than you used to make, but there are jobs.

I went to work at a hospital, doing patient registration. Good pay for that sort of work and excellent benefits. Had I been younger I'd have taken a class in coding, or jumped at the opportunity to be an operating room assistant.

Maybe the fact that I'd been out of the workforce for 25 years raising kids was a positive. I was only looking for entry level work, and there was a lot out there. I didn't even need to try to get work in fast food or retail.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #77)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:12 PM

87. What is your little anecdote supposed to prove?

 

I really don't get it.

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Response to Larry Engels (Reply #87)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:44 AM

100. Well, I constantly read that NO ONE over age 60, or 55, or 50 ever gets hired.

 

No caveats attached.

My little anecdote proves that is just not true.

I'm very tired of reading here about how no one over some particular age can possibly get a job, when I know from experience that older people can get jobs. Okay, so it's highly unlikely to get certain specific jobs. But getting some job? It can happen.

I honestly don't get the people who take early Social Security when they could instead get a crappy entry level job, make more than SS would provide, and put off SS for a few more years. It's their choice, but there really are alternatives.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:00 PM

78. yup, sounds right to me, alas. n/t

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:59 PM

81. Yeah, all those retirees and disabled people should get back to work, right?

We've got higher labor participation rates than France, the UK, or Canada, and that's a bad thing.

Increase the minimum wage and social spending so that fewer people have to work to support existing and new families. There's no reason for two-thirds of adults in the US to have jobs in 2015.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #81)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:16 PM

88. as one of those oldies over 60, I had to retire early

Those in positions to hire want young, cheap and easy-to-boss, not mature, experienced professionals with lots of depth and background.

There are a few exceptions, but this is pretty much the landscape for over-60's.

I'm now developing my own business. I've stopped looking for a full time job.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #81)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:39 AM

106. That's a real problem.

Lots of people over 50 can't compete physically with younger people.

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Response to Beauregard (Original post)

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