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Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:20 PM

Murdered Russian Opposition Leader Was Planning to Release Information on Ukraine Conflict

Source: Slate

FEB. 28 2015 1:02 PM
Murdered Russian Opposition Leader Was Planning to Release Information on Ukraine Conflict
By Daniel Politi

Thousands of shocked Russians gathered on Saturday to lay flowers and light candles on the bridge where opposition politician Boris Nemtsov was shot and killed in Moscow on Friday in what amounted to the country’s highest-profile killing of a political figure in more than a decade. And even though the investigation into the murder is just getting started, several reports claim Nemtsov was preparing to release information about the Kremlin’s involvement in the Ukraine conflict.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko himself put forward the theory on Saturday. "He said he would reveal persuasive evidence of the involvement of Russian armed forces in Ukraine. Someone was very afraid of this ... They killed him," Poroshenko said, according to Reuters. He’s not alone. The New York Times talks to the New Times magazine editor who met with Nemtsov two weeks ago. Nemtsov reportedly told his old friend he wanted to publish a pamphlet titled “Putin and the War” about the country’s involvement in the Ukraine conflict. He knew the risks. “He was afraid of being killed,” the editor, Yevgenia Albats, said. “And he was trying to convince himself, and me, they wouldn’t touch him.”

For its part, Russia’s top investigative body said it is looking at several possible motives for the killing, including “murder as a provocation to destabilize the political situation in the country.” The Investigative Committee said it was analyzing whether he had been killed as a "sacrificial victim for those who do not shun any method for achieving their political goals," reports the Associated Press. The thinking is that fellow members of the opposition could have killed Nemtsov in order to create a martyr, an assertion that many immediately dismissed as ridiculous. The Investigative Committee is also examining whether the killing had anything to do with Ukraine, or if there was any connection to Islamic extremism.

World leaders, including President Barack Obama and U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron, condemned the killing and have called for a thorough investigation, notes the Guardian. “I am shocked and sickened by the callous murder of Boris Nemtsov as he walked in the heart Moscow last night,” Cameron said in a statement on Saturday morning. "This despicable act must be fully, rapidly and transparently investigated, and those responsible brought to justice." Obama also called on “the Russian government to conduct a prompt, impartial, and transparent investigation into the circumstances of his murder and ensure that those responsible for this vicious killing are brought to justice.”

Read more: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/28/boris_nemtsov_murdered_russian_opposition_leader_was_going_to_release_information.html

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Reply Murdered Russian Opposition Leader Was Planning to Release Information on Ukraine Conflict (Original post)
Hissyspit Feb 2015 OP
Cha Feb 2015 #1
Scootaloo Feb 2015 #2
uhnope Feb 2015 #3
Scootaloo Feb 2015 #5
uhnope Feb 2015 #12
Scootaloo Feb 2015 #13
uhnope Feb 2015 #14
Scootaloo Feb 2015 #15
uhnope Mar 2015 #16
Scootaloo Mar 2015 #17
uhnope Mar 2015 #18
JDPriestly Feb 2015 #6
uhnope Mar 2015 #19
Chasstev365 Feb 2015 #4
jtuck004 Feb 2015 #7
FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #8
dflprincess Feb 2015 #9
Chasstev365 Feb 2015 #11
penndragon69 Feb 2015 #10

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:39 PM

1. Oh shite!

"Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko himself put forward the theory on Saturday. "He said he would reveal persuasive evidence of the involvement of Russian armed forces in Ukraine. Someone was very afraid of this ... They killed him," Poroshenko said, according to Reuters. He’s not alone. The New York Times talks to the New Times magazine editor who met with Nemtsov two weeks ago. Nemtsov reportedly told his old friend he wanted to publish a pamphlet titled “Putin and the War” about the country’s involvement in the Ukraine conflict. He knew the risks. “He was afraid of being killed,” the editor, Yevgenia Albats, said. “And he was trying to convince himself, and me, they wouldn’t touch him.”


UK in Russia ✔ @ukinrussia
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UK, French and German Ambassadors crossing the bridge to lay flowers where Boris #Nemtsov was killed.
6:34 AM - 28 Feb 2015 446 Retweets 196 favorites


Leonid Ragozin @leonidragozin
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Long line of people and flowers
7:55 AM - 28 Feb 2015 69 Retweets 41 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/02/28/chat-away-535/

RIP Boris Nemtsov

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:59 PM

2. So, question.

 

If the Russian left stands up after this, will DU'ers support them? Or will they be treated like DU treated Occupy, the Arab Spring, and Latin american leftists?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:07 PM

3. To so easily compare Occupy, Arab Spring, Latin american leftists & the Russian anti-Putin forces

 

is mind-bogglingly awkward. A book-length essay could maybe do so, in some ways. But come on. Different goals, different people, different tactics, different cultures...different ideologies and therefore what does "left" even mean? Are you calling the current Egyptian gov't "left" because it came about as the result of the Arab Spring?

I'm starting to think there never has been a "left" movement that in any way overlapped with concerns for justice, human rights and progressive values. Look at the "left" of the 20th century--it became synonymous with Soviet totalitarianism, the opposite of progressive values, and look at "leftist" terrorists like Carlos and Badder Meinhof who worked with the Soviets, Hezbollah, Saddam, Gaddafi and other despots/extremists that were also the opposite of progressive values. This so-called "left" was synonymous with money-making psychos. The fact that Soviet Russia was just a scam is proven by the fact that Putin has continued the exact same game as the Communist, but with all the ideology removed. Before the totalitarianism, propaganda, invasions and stealing the country blind for the enrichment of a limited few was in the name of Communism--now the same thing is going on with no real ideology.

I don't think the anti-Putin and anti-war forces in Russia are necessarily "left." They might just be for democracy and freedom. That makes them pretty radical inside Russia but in terms of ideology, probably just regular centrist folks.

What is "the left"? I think you are just referring to "opposition."

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Response to uhnope (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:18 PM

5. Of course there's a variety on the left. It's made of people, not corporations my friend

 

All politics is local, and addresses local concerns, organized by the inhabitants of that locale. Certainly the left of the US is not identical to the left of Lebanon or the left or Ukraine.

But, I think by your reflexive and immediate association of "left' with "Stalinism" and other assholes, I have my answer.

I suggest that instead of exploiting Boris Nemtsov as a cypher, how about you look up the stuff he stood for and the people who stood by him.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 11:15 PM

12. um, if you're trying to say Soviet Communism was not connected to the "left"

 

then I have to say you don't know what you're talking about.

If you're not aware of Baader Meinhoff, Carlos or other "leftist" terrorists, then you don't know what you're talking about.

My point was pretty clear but you seem intent on avoiding it.

If you want to condemn Boris Nemtsov before his body is cold, tell us about it.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 11:28 PM

13. I'm not condemning him, far from it.

 

I'm telling you to look up his positions, his stances, and his statements, before you hie off with your reactionary bullshit about the "evils of the left." I'm advising you that if the left disgusts and enrages you as much as it seems to, maybe Boris Nemtsov isn't the guy you want to be using as a blank cypher for your rage campaign

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 11:39 PM

14. quote marks are to be used for quoting, sir, not for putting words in someone's mouth

 

You write "evils of the left" as if I wrote that but nowhere did I write that. Please don't do that.
You, or anybody, can look back at what I wrote and see that I wrote in support of progressive values and human rights, and that every "leftist" or "far left" movement I have studied so far in no way supported progressive values or human rights. For you to call me a reactionary for your own, mysterious reasons is bullshit. I don't get it--are you angry that I said Soviets then and Putin's Russia now are examples of extreme totalitarianism? Or what?

Likewise I have written clearly and calmly; it is you going into a rage. Take a break and try to clear your thoughts; then write about whatever you're trying to say.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 11:54 PM

15. I asked whether DU would support the russian left if they stood up

 

You said that you don't think the left has ever been associated with justice, human rights and progressive values. You follow through on that with a rant about Stalinism, leftist terrorists, Muammar Ghaddafi, just a litany of disjointed names thatyou are defining the very concept of "leftism" by.

I didn't feel like quoting the entire paragraph (it was a large block of miserable), so "evils of the left" while not a direct quote, is a completely apt and accurate paraphrase of what you said. You are in fact bolstering that premise in this very post:

and that every "leftist" or "far left" movement I have studied so far in no way supported progressive values or human rights


Obviously in your eyes, left = evil. This is why I call you a reactionary, because you make it very clear that you have a reflexive, outright hateful reaction towards the left, and obviously cannot conceive of leftism in any but a purely and completely negative light.



and no, I'm not in a rage. I'm simply telling you that since you clearly hate the left, Boris Nemtsov is not a person you should be exploiting for your position.

I am, however, kind of disgusted.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #15)

Sun Mar 1, 2015, 12:08 AM

16. you might be confusing terms. and you should go back and reread what I said

 

I said to try to categorize all those movements in different countries as "left" is problematic.

When I said "left", I clearly indicated "far left" or "leftist," not "left of center" as in progressive. I clearly and repeatedly endorsed progressive values, which is left of center, of course; I am a progressive. So you've completely lost it when you call me a reactionary; if you're honest you'll take that back, but whatever...it's your problem, not mine.

I mean, the simple question is: are people opposing Putin, who want democracy, freedom--are they "left"??? Those aren't left or right values, they are basic democratic values.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #16)

Sun Mar 1, 2015, 12:33 AM

17. You wanted quotes?

 

I'm starting to think there never has been a "left" movement that in any way overlapped with concerns for justice, human rights and progressive values.


every "leftist" or "far left" movement I have studied so far in no way supported progressive values or human rights.


Your statements are pretty clear, as you say. I haven't seen you ever promote any progressive values, uhnope. I've seen you rage against Russia for failing them, of course. I've seen you attack other DU'ers, claiming they support Putin's hate for gays love for fascism, because they dare disagree with you on something. But I've never seen you actually say anything in support of these groups. you don't actually engage.

Now, I think I know why that is.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #17)

Sun Mar 1, 2015, 01:53 PM

18. Either you're reading what you want into my words, or you just want to personally insult

 

Whatever. I don't know what your problem is, and I don't have to prove myself to you. I have clearly summarized my position and views several times, I don't need to repeat them. You say I don't engage, but I've continually tried to get you to view the issues rationally and asked you pertinent questions that you've ignored.

If you think that post you link to was an attack by me, then again either it's a reading comprehension issue or something else--alert on the post if you think it's an attack, since personal attacks are not allowed in DU discussion.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:41 PM

6. And before the Communists, the aristocracy led by the Tsar and Tsarina did it.

It's the same old, same old.

I want to add that a memo was published in a Russian newspaper that revealed a Russian, Putin plan to take over in Eastern Ukraine, possibly all of Ukraine. That may have been associated with the report discussed in the OP. I think the story was posted on DU.

Does anyone else remember this?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 1, 2015, 01:57 PM

19. thank you! Yes. Tsars too. The memo you mention is to be found in a couple threads on DU

 

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:17 PM

4. But George W. Bush Told Us He was a Good Man?

 

“I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialog. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.”

The next time some right wing Obama hater spews their bile, remind them that this incompetent numbnut was once in charge of US foreign policy.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:45 PM

7. Murdering people to further one's goals. Training to be an American CEO? n/t

 

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:49 PM

8. Don Corleone would be proud

Putin has is Luca Brasi.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:49 PM

9. I'm sure all this speculaton will be laid to rest once the "Putin Commission"

releases its report that this was the action of one nut acting alone.

No, I'm not making light of it but I just wanted to point out that, because it happened in Russia, we're ready to believe that this was an organized act to silence opposition (I believe that too) but, if it had happened in the U.S., there'd be a very vocal group calling us "conspiracy theorists".

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 11:05 PM

11. We Have a Winner! Nicely done!

 

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Feb 28, 2015, 11:04 PM

10. SOO, broke back puttie,

 

MAY have had the man ASSASSINATED.

Color me surprised !

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