Ukraine: Russia-backed rebels overrun another town in east

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By PETER LEONARD

ARTEMIVSK, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine's military conceded Thursday that its forces had been overrun by Russian-backed separatist forces in another town in their battle to hold onto a strategically valuable railway hub.

A soldier wounded in combat for the town, Vuhlehirsk, said armored vehicles and tanks were used in the attack on government positions, forcing a hasty retreat.

Defense Ministry spokesman Vladislav Seleznyov said fighting is now under way to expel the rebels from Vuhlehirsk.

"We are trying to push the enemy out of the town," he said.

FULL story at link.



An injured Ukrainian soldier Vadim Pugovetsa sits in his room at a hospital in town of Artemivsk, Ukraine, Thursday, Jan. 29, 2015. Fighting between government and Russian-backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine has intensified in recent days as rebels seek to encircle the town of Debaltseve, which hosts a strategically important railway hub. (AP Photo/Petr David Josek)

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20150129/eu--ukraine-d9f06de308.html

[Cha]

1. K

[msongs]

2. putin wants ukraine for his birthday, sort of czechoslovakia thing nt

[happyslug]

3. No, Russia was built for Winter Campaigns.

The last time Russia was actually CONQUERED, it was the result of a WINTER CAMPAIGN. The Mongols did it 1237:

In November 1237, Batu Khan sent his envoys to the court of Yuri II of Vladimir and demanded his submission. A month later, the hordes besieged Ryazan. After six days of bloody battle, the city was totally annihilated. Alarmed by the news, Yuri II sent his sons to detain the invaders, but they were soundly defeated. Having burnt down Kolomna and Moscow, the horde laid siege to Vladimir on February 4, 1238. Three days later, the capital of Vladimir-Suzdal was taken and burnt to the ground. The royal family perished in the fire, while the grand prince retreated northward. Crossing the Volga, he mustered a new army, which was totally annihilated by the Mongols in the Battle of the Sit River on March 4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Rus%27

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Muscovite_War_(1605%E2%80%9318)

When the Poles defeated the Teutonic Knights in 1410 in the Battle of Tannenberg (also called the Battle of Grunwald), the Grand Master of the Knights had recommend that everyone wait for Winter, but instead the Troops moved in summer when the Poles and Lithuanians moved first. While the Teutonic Knights lost the battle, that it was fought in Summer prevented the Poles the Lithuanians from truly exploiting their victory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald

Charles X of Sweden and Napoleon made the same mistake, they attacked Russia in Summer and found themselves locked into limited field of actions by the Rivers and Swamps. On the other hand the Russians (and the Poles and Lithuanians and other natives to the area) tended to wait for winter, when those swamps and rivers froze over and the Steppes become one huge flat terrain. Thus the fighting is occurring NOW for it is winter. No need to build bridges across rivers (the Rivers are frozen and can be walked across).

Yes, Napoleon took Moscow (or the Tsar left him have it, after telling everyone to lease, thus Napoleon entered a city with no people in it), but once Napoleon had Moscow, the rivers prevented him from sending his troops out to gather the food his army needed, he thus had to retreat. The preferred way was via the Ukraine, an area his army had NOT previously plundered but that was stopped by the Russian Army willingness to still fight when Napoleon marched from Moscow (Napoleon won those battles, but failed to destroyed the Russian Armies that fought them, thus Napoleon had to retreat the way he came, and his army had already plundered what they could from that area thus his army slowly starved and froze to death).

Just a comment, that Winter is the time to fight on the Steppes, that run from Poland to the Pacific. Moscow knows this and Government in Kiev should know this. This fighting will continue till the thaw, when the ground unfreezes and everything become muck for about six weeks, then spring and summer arrives.

January is the coldest month with daytime temperatures usually around 0°C, but in some cases winter months can be quite colder with temperatures far below zero, about -20°C or lower and strong, cold northeasterly winds, called Bora. Heavy snowfall or even snowstorms are also possible on some days

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/climate/Ukraine.htm

Other sources show snow of only 2 inches in January and February, but temperatures NOT going above Freezing till late February:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g294474-s208/Kiev:Ukraine:Weather.And.When.To.Go.html

Russia provides most of the Ukraine's Natural gas, AND 2/3rds of Ukrainian Coal is in the region held by the Rebels:

http://www.businessinsider.com/putins-ukraine-trump-card-winter-2014-8

The Ukraine has been PAYING Russia for its Natural Gas and Russia has been providing it to the Ukraine:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2014/1209/Ukraine-makes-payment-for-Russian-gas-as-winter-arrives

The Thaw seems to becoming early, temperatures in the Ukraine appears to be just over Freezing at the present time, thus we may be seeing the end of any fighting for a while:

http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/Ukraine.html


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/12/21/humanitarian-crisis-risk-opportunity-east-ukraine/20495301/

[bemildred]

4. +1. nt

[happyslug]

5. Global warming appears to be having an affect on Winter campaigns East of Germany.

When I look at the temperatures of the Ukraine, the HIGH Temperatures are ABOVE Freezing, while the LOW temperatures are below freezing. Such temperatures are typical of the Thaw not winter, thus the Thaw may have come early (and the Temperatures I was looking at was where the Rebels are attacking, which is towards the Black Sea NOT Karakov).

Just a comment that the fighting may end soon, do to the Thaw. The temperatures in the day time are high enough to melt the ice (and make mud and muck), but then it refreezes overnight, thus the ground never really ever gets a chance to dry out. Thus the thaw is a time of very little movement, everything is mud and that limits your maneuverability.

Thus if temperatures remain in this area fighting will soon stop.

[bemildred]

6. I've been wondering about it.

It's one reason I expected the fighting to resume in January, the freeze, but if it is a short Winter, it may calm things down, or at least make aggressive moves difficult. It might explain the ferocity of the fighting too, not having much time.