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Thu Dec 14, 2017, 10:50 PM

 

I am told we can go back to using local ISPs

If there is a local ISP that does not try to control internet access wouldn't it work if we all stopped using Comcast etc. we could have a voice in the net neutrality issue?

If that is true, when Xfinity offers me some Internet package I will tell to fuck off!

42 replies, 5359 views

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Reply I am told we can go back to using local ISPs (Original post)
wasupaloopa Dec 2017 OP
onecaliberal Dec 2017 #1
hlthe2b Dec 2017 #2
wasupaloopa Dec 2017 #7
Bengus81 Dec 2017 #34
hlthe2b Dec 2017 #39
Egnever Dec 2017 #3
NickB79 Dec 2017 #10
JimBeard Dec 2017 #12
Egnever Dec 2017 #16
JimBeard Dec 2017 #18
Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #27
Bengus81 Dec 2017 #35
Egnever Dec 2017 #15
hunter Dec 2017 #40
bathroommonkey76 Dec 2017 #20
Clarity2 Dec 2017 #29
Bengus81 Dec 2017 #36
Clarity2 Dec 2017 #38
subterranean Dec 2017 #4
Beakybird Dec 2017 #5
CountAllVotes Dec 2017 #6
meow2u3 Dec 2017 #8
ecstatic Dec 2017 #9
lapfog_1 Dec 2017 #11
Pachamama Dec 2017 #19
regnaD kciN Dec 2017 #22
Pachamama Dec 2017 #42
snooper2 Dec 2017 #25
C_U_L8R Dec 2017 #13
trc Dec 2017 #14
snooper2 Dec 2017 #24
LanternWaste Dec 2017 #28
snooper2 Dec 2017 #31
frazzled Dec 2017 #17
TheBlackAdder Dec 2017 #21
regnaD kciN Dec 2017 #23
TheBlackAdder Dec 2017 #30
crazycatlady Dec 2017 #26
DBoon Dec 2017 #32
brooklynite Dec 2017 #33
LeftInTX Dec 2017 #37
Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2017 #41

Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 10:52 PM

1. Were already doing that.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 10:55 PM

2. You mean a municipal broadband system? If you have one that is tremendous

why were you not using it already?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:04 PM

7. Did not know about it

 

I am technologically challenged

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:58 AM

34. Colorado has been on this for years..........

Some have already run their own Fiber optic line for gigabit service

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/08/19-more-colorado-municipalities-vote-for-city-owned-internet-fort-collins-approves-150-million/

"In 2005, cable and internet providers campaigned to stop cities from offering internet service. At the time, Steve Davis, an executive at Qwest, which is now CenturyLink, told The Rocky Mountain News, I think it’s inappropriate for public tax dollars to be invested in competitive businesses. At minimum, taxpayers should have the opportunity (to vote on the matter).”

Gosh...the BIG BOYS don't want competition,my what a SHOCK!!!

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Response to Bengus81 (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 12:43 PM

39. Yes, I've been posting on Fort Collins' experience slaying "Goliath"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029983227

I just wish it were up and running NOW, along with the rest of Colorado communities

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 10:56 PM

3. Most of America has little to no choice

 

Here in Vegas we basically have two choices the cable company that has speed up to 1gps or the phone company that maxes out at 25mbs

Not really a choice at all if you use the internet for anything but basic web surfing.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:10 PM

10. 25mbps isn't enough speed?

I'm on a 12 Mbps provider, which is blazing fast after years on a 2 Mbps DSL line.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:18 PM

12. I am on a local co-op ISP and I only pay for 6MBps

 

I use Roku and get everything i want on TV and the PC... Kinda expensive though $120 a month that includes telephone service.
It is fiber optic service.

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:36 PM

16. Good lord $120 per month for 6mbps

 

that is highway robbery.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 12:49 AM

18. at least its fiber optic all the way. Yes it is outrageous.

 

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Response to Egnever (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:33 AM

27. It is outrageous

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Response to Egnever (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 12:02 PM

35. That's what COX wants here for gigabit service only

Strange...why they rolled that out YEARS ago,a year or so I talked to a Cox repair guy in the neighborhood and he claim they can do gigabit through regular cable wire but alot of it needed to be updated.

I thought Pai claimed they were stifled by Guberment from doing any new innovation. Total BS..............

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:35 PM

15. Not in a multi device household

 

and 12 megs is not enough to stream 4k video at all. One person watching a netflix stream at 4k would eat all of your bandwidth.


Beyond that the infrastructure of the phone company is horribly old I have seen inside boxes with burnt cabling along with wiring so old the plastic covering is flaking off. It has been that way for years now.

They often under deliver their speeds as well. Most folks don't notice because they don't know any better.

There really is only one choice here.

Add to that the internet is increasingly laden with video ads that eat bandwidth and a couple of devices surfing at the same time again will eat all of your bandwidth.

The internet grows with available bandwidth the more that is available the more is added to the webpages. The current dsl technology is maxed at 25mbps there is no room for growth which again leaves you with no real choice.

I remember when I was thrilled with 1mbps today you can barely surf the web with that as you know coming from a 2mbps line. You might think 12 is fast now but that is not going to last as more and more content is piled on.

Already we pay more for less internet than most countries and this trend shows no signs of slowing. The ruling today will only make that worse.


So why are Americans paying more for slower service? The answer: There’s limited competition in the broadband market.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 01:33 PM

40. I grew up without DVDs or video cassettes, and only three usable television channels...

...not too snowy to watch. There were no perfectly clear channels, without snow, without ghosts. Our community did have cable, but that was only nine television channels and the optional "Movie Channel." Sometimes we had cable, sometimes not, depending upon my parent's finances. Sometimes we didn't have working televisions at all.

My wife and I were still renting video cassettes when I first signed onto DU, and I was lucky to get 36k on my internet connection. Back then an internet connection was only available from local ISPs because AT&T and Comcast didn't offer residential internet service. I've never had internet service from AT&T, Comcast, or any other major telcom.

It's not likely I'll ever own a 4K television.

Netflix is our only video streaming service and I've got that limited to medium resolution 0.7 GB per hour and one channel. The quality is good enough for my sorry eyes, and better than video cassettes ever were. My wife and I don't watch any broadcast television. Our television is a movie player, that's all it does. No commercials.

I'm lucky to live in a place with independent Internet Service Providers. Even if my ISP's speed maxed out at that medium level of Netflix service I'd still prefer them to AT&T, and I'd especially prefer them over Comcast. As things are Comcast/Xfinity fills my mailbox with junk mail that goes straight into the recycling bin unopened.

I grant you that Internet service in the U.S.A. generally sucks, and that the politicians and bureaucrats owned by the big telcoms are largely responsible for this. If the telcoms won't provide solid internet service to all U.S. residents then we need government programs similar to rural electrification or the interstate highway system to bring higher speed service to all.

My own hostility towards Comcast is so great I'd probably rather go back to 128k ISDN internet speeds than do business with them. DU isn't unusable at that speed if larger gifs and videos are blocked.

My point is that we don't have to do business with the corporations we despise. If enough Comcast and other telcom customers tell these giant corporations to go pound sand we may force them abandon their 20th century business models, quit seeking protections from corrupt politicians and bureaucrats, and actually sell their customers excellent service at competitive rates.









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Response to NickB79 (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 03:04 AM

20. I pay $75

 

per month for 75 mbps - My provider upgraded its DSL a few months ago. I was getting around 12 mbps before the upgrade.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:45 AM

29. 25 would feel slow to me

I was having problems with speed and internet cutting out. I was at about 30-40mbpps when that was going on that it felt slow. Our cable advertises at 50mbpps. The other day they advertised they're giving everyone 200mbpps "on us". Sure enough my speed is at 211 now, but I know it's coming - they will be hitting us up for that lightening speed. We pay around $39 for the internet part. I'm not going to complain anymore.

There has been talk about Facebook/Google, etc using unmanned vehicles (drone like) to beam internet into places that don't have access. I guess that could be our future, but who the hell trusts FB at this point.

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Response to Clarity2 (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 12:09 PM

36. Jesus...your getting a DEAL that's real for 39 bucks.....

Try around here with Cox. You want 100mbps ( 1 gigabit),pay $120 per month. My Internet which is sold as "up to" 50mbps has NEVER hit that speed. On a good day I can get 32-37mbps and that's about it. For that service I pay close to $70 per month.

I still think Speakeasy is the best testing site. Just checked mine and got about 36mbps download.

https://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

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Response to Bengus81 (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 12:23 PM

38. Just checked

with your link. It was at 213...37 for upload. It is a good deal, but cable hits you up for all the other stuff. My bill is at $259 and going up. Think I might switch to tivos with a card! I am sure internet will go up with the faster speed. This is of course coincidentaly timed with the net neutrality repeal.

$70 is crazy. We have other options around here like DSL, but they are very slow. In the 5mbpps range.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 10:58 PM

4. Most people don't have much of a choice for high-speed Internet.

Where I live the choice is either Comcast or CenturyLink, unless I want to use a dial-up connection, which I don't.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:00 PM

5. Where I live, there's no choice

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:03 PM

6. There is one local server left where I live

And yes, I am and have been their customer for almost 15 years now and still using the same ancient DSL modems.

I am proud to support the local ISP. The price is right too, $29.95/month!





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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:08 PM

8. My ISP/cable provider is RCN

It's a smaller company, but I'm not sure they're assholish about throttling content. I haven't had any problems with them.

One thing for sure: I will never subscribe to Verizon or Xfinity (CONcast): they will definitely play games with our internet content because they now can.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:09 PM

9. I've been waiting for Google fiber for years...

They're in Atlanta but haven't made their way to the east side yet. But at this point, I'm all in with Comcast again. Not sure how I'd pry myself away from X1.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:15 PM

11. yeah, no...

The internet has a multitude (but getting smaller) number of wide area carriers... that meet at various locations around the nation ( and world) known as Internet Exchange Point or simply Exchanges (a long time ago they were very few of these (like 3) that were called MAE (West and East... a sort of play on a name). I should know as I contributed some equipment (one of the world's first gigabit ethernet switches) to MAE West back in the late 1980s or early 1990s.

Anyway, these long-distance carriers have various "common carrier" agreements to carry the traffic originating with other local ISPs to the destination somewhere else (like, say, the servers that now host democraticunderground). However, Comcast (which is both a local ISP and a common carrier) might decide to not connect to DU (or Netflix) and could decide to rewrite those common carrier agreements to allow it to shape this traffic to its own corporate policies. What would then happen is that DU traffic (or Netflix or Hulu) would be forced onto another common carrier set of links (if you are interested, use traceroute to see the number of hops between your computer or phone and the server you are getting data from).

So even if the local ISP at both ends signed up to be Net Neutral, unless there is a corresponding WAN common carrier with the capacity to carry the entire internet, you could still experience non-net neutrality from the policies of a Comcast or AT&T.


# traceroute www.democraticunderground.com
traceroute to www.democraticunderground.com (52.4.189.133), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 1.793 ms 2.902 ms 3.802 ms
2 96.120.14.229 (96.120.14.229) 22.807 ms 23.342 ms 23.593 ms
3 ae-201-sur03.tracy.ca.ccal.comcast.net (68.87.203.241) 24.100 ms 24.653 ms 24.882 ms
4 ae-63-ar01.fresno.ca.ccal.comcast.net (68.87.202.81) 26.739 ms 26.248 ms ae-62-ar01.sacramento.ca.ccal.comcast.net (68.87.202.73) 27.158 ms
5 be-33667-cr01.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.25) 35.894 ms be-33667-cr02.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.37) 41.185 ms be-33667-cr01.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.25) 37.447 ms
6 be-11524-cr02.dallas.tx.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.87.174) 69.229 ms be-11025-cr02.sunnyvale.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.87.157) 18.956 ms 18.941 ms
7 be-11015-cr02.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.86.98) 28.565 ms 27.644 ms be-12495-pe03.1950stemmons.tx.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.194) 56.560 ms
8 66.208.233.34 (66.208.233.34) 55.752 ms 59.475 ms be-11524-cr02.dallas.tx.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.87.174) 64.736 ms
9 * be-12495-pe03.1950stemmons.tx.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.194) 62.054 ms 69.867 ms
10 66.208.233.34 (66.208.233.34) 68.873 ms * 54.180 ms
11 * * *
12 * * *
13 * * *
14 54.240.229.217 (54.240.229.217) 94.082 ms * 54.240.229.171 (54.240.229.171) 94.916 ms
15 * * *
16 54.239.110.135 (54.239.110.135) 100.053 ms * 54.239.110.233 (54.239.110.233) 137.367 ms
17 * 54.239.108.233 (54.239.108.233) 85.510 ms *
18 54.239.108.97 (54.239.108.97) 84.357 ms 54.239.110.141 (54.239.110.141) 103.095 ms 54.239.110.213 (54.239.110.213) 100.383 ms
19 54.239.108.199 (54.239.108.199) 93.594 ms 205.251.244.91 (205.251.244.91) 90.002 ms 54.239.111.23 (54.239.111.23) 96.916 ms
20 * * *
21 * * 72.21.197.253 (72.21.197.253) 102.258 ms
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *

As you can tell I live in CA... and my traffic to DU stays on Comcast all the way to Dallas... then gets diverted to some random network that we don't know the name of (no DNS entries) for the rest of the trip to DU.

The "ibone" names are likely Comcast's naming conventions for their long distance "backbone" WAN networks.




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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 02:49 AM

19. What happens if you use your mobile phone as a wifi hotspot to stream and to connect devices?

Just wondering...

I want to know options of how to set myself free from Comcast.... tired of my $200+ a month bills

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Response to Pachamama (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:06 AM

22. Then you're dependent on your mobile carrier's policies...

...and, if you think that Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile aren't going to institute the same non-neutral policies as the in-home providers, recall which company Pai came from (Verizon). The mobile companies have been agitating to abolish net neutrality as much as the DSL and cable companies, if not more.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 06:12 PM

42. My impression was TMobile wanted to do things different & even in teaming up w/ Netflix was trying

...to offer an alternative to Comcast.

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems that just like they have implemented a flat rate and no additional taxes fees on the monthly bills as others do and to offering Netflix with each 2 line T-Mobile One accounts.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:28 AM

25. "pe" stands for provider edge FYI, not sure what "be" stands for in Comcast land

 

pe03.1950stemmons.tx.ibone.comcast.net

I was just down at 1950 Stemmons a couple weeks ago swapping out some crappy copper GBICs on a pet project I'm working on. Pretty cool co-lo space. Some of the tightest security - you have to surrender your license and check any weapons before you go through their metal detector. Two security doors to get in and out...

Equinox invested a lot in the basement of that building. Used to actually work on the 4th floor at 1950 back in the day with Worldcom

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:19 PM

13. It's a great opportunity

for an insurgent ISP to attract "us" by promising to uphold a free open internet.

I also imagine states and cities will have a lot to say... and folks like Comcast may see their locally-enabled monopolies quickly evaporate.

Ultimate, we are the free market and there are many more of us than them. The customer is always right, you fucks.

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:34 PM

14. A true free market would only occur if the cable lines

were opened to all carriers the way electric lines were. Then we would see multiple ISP's and costs would drop drastically. The difference however is that power companies were public utilities and therefor bad and wasteful but cable companies are private companies and therefor good and awesome.

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:22 AM

24. the internet doesn't work like that FYI

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:43 AM

28. People also think national borders are real

People also think national borders are real rather than existing only in our imaginations. We're pretty easily led to only one possible solution to a given problem in those regards.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:46 AM

31. I know, all those imaginary borders around the World confuse the fuck out of people

 

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 14, 2017, 11:56 PM

17. We fortunately got a choice

several years ago, when we were offered fiber optic in our condo building. We signed up immediately, $25 a month.

Everywhere Wireless, a Gigabit Internet Network servicing multi-family communities and businesses in Chicago.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 07:41 AM

21. I use Verizon FiOS for work and stability. Only 3 outages in 7 years, and two were 15 minutes each.

I used to have Comcast and they would go out all of the time. I would call and they would say that it is a 3 day service call, unless I could get 5 other neighbors to call in, then it would be considered an emergency and they would dispatch someone within 24 hours. I used to get knocked out a half dozen or more times a year, for 2-3 days at a shot. They said I needed to pay an extra $100 a month for a business account if I wanted 24 hour service.

With FiOS, I started at 15Mbps, went to 30 Mbps, 50Mbps, 75Mbps and now at 1Gbps. I was only knocked out 3 times in 7 years, two were after midnight and were for only 15 minutes. One was for a day, the day that Hurricane Sandy struck NJ. I now have a package plan, which seems a bit expensive, but it includes phone, all regular & HD channels (which has about 30% more premiere channels than Comcast), a DVR and 1Gbps service. I'm not sure how much the Internet portion is, but my package bill, with all taxes and fees is about $200/mo.

There is no other solution that provides near comparable service in Southern NJ.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:09 AM

23. But, if you think Verizon isn't going to take advantage...

...of yesterday's decision, I have a bridge to sell you. The head of the FCC who pushed through repeal was a Verizon executive.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:46 AM

30. I didn't say that, not even hinted at that. I'm sure Verizon will be Verizon.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:30 AM

26. My choices are Cablevision/Optimum or Verizon

And the latter requires a landline (which I do not have) and a two year contract.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:47 AM

32. that's like giving up your cell phone and using walkie talkies instead

At some point the local ISP needs to connect to a backbone provider to be useful.

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Response to DBoon (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:53 AM

33. None of the phone companies throttle MVNOs...

...business is business; if a local ISP will pay for internet backbone, they can implement it any way they like.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 12:13 PM

37. I only have one choice - Spectrum/TWC

Google Fiber is in town, but not in my neighborhood.
I hope Google Fiber will expand their services after this ruling.

Basically there is no competition where I live.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 01:36 PM

41. My local ISP got kicked out of the ISP business

by Frontier and I was forced to switch to them...........

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