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Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:36 PM

 

Would Jones have won if his opponet was

decent upstanding individual?

My guess is that the areas where Moore did worse than Trump and worse than he did in the past was because of write in votes or people who stayed home.

I don't see this election as a turning point.

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Reply Would Jones have won if his opponet was (Original post)
wasupaloopa Dec 2017 OP
boston bean Dec 2017 #1
Hortensis Dec 2017 #49
Jarqui Dec 2017 #2
leftynyc Dec 2017 #35
Jarqui Dec 2017 #43
leftynyc Dec 2017 #44
Jarqui Dec 2017 #46
misanthrope Dec 2017 #65
Jarqui Dec 2017 #92
misanthrope Dec 2017 #64
Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #60
JimBeard Dec 2017 #3
BumRushDaShow Dec 2017 #6
Sophia4 Dec 2017 #10
JimBeard Dec 2017 #67
unblock Dec 2017 #11
Hortensis Dec 2017 #48
DinahMoeHum Dec 2017 #26
treestar Dec 2017 #51
bottomofthehill Dec 2017 #86
Thor_MN Dec 2017 #4
Sophia4 Dec 2017 #12
Egnever Dec 2017 #53
TNLib Dec 2017 #5
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #7
leftynyc Dec 2017 #37
misanthrope Dec 2017 #66
unblock Dec 2017 #8
Sophia4 Dec 2017 #14
DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2017 #9
GaryCnf Dec 2017 #13
lapfog_1 Dec 2017 #15
iwillalwayswonderwhy Dec 2017 #16
Blue_true Dec 2017 #17
wasupaloopa Dec 2017 #91
eissa Dec 2017 #18
mopinko Dec 2017 #20
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #33
eissa Dec 2017 #36
Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #58
eissa Dec 2017 #59
Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #68
eissa Dec 2017 #75
Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #77
mopinko Dec 2017 #19
Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #21
DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2017 #22
spanone Dec 2017 #23
JimBeard Dec 2017 #24
mythology Dec 2017 #25
gratuitous Dec 2017 #27
ChoppinBroccoli Dec 2017 #28
misanthrope Dec 2017 #71
MFM008 Dec 2017 #29
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #30
Bleacher Creature Dec 2017 #31
AlexSFCA Dec 2017 #32
SeaDoo77 Dec 2017 #34
misanthrope Dec 2017 #72
marylandblue Dec 2017 #38
misanthrope Dec 2017 #73
marylandblue Dec 2017 #89
Codeine Dec 2017 #39
misanthrope Dec 2017 #74
Willie Pep Dec 2017 #40
Calista241 Dec 2017 #41
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #79
Johonny Dec 2017 #42
stevenleser Dec 2017 #45
jalan48 Dec 2017 #47
Kaleva Dec 2017 #50
Me. Dec 2017 #52
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #81
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2017 #54
Paladin Dec 2017 #55
Soxfan58 Dec 2017 #56
MaryMagdaline Dec 2017 #57
Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #61
artemisia1 Dec 2017 #62
misanthrope Dec 2017 #63
crazycatlady Dec 2017 #69
DFW Dec 2017 #70
Ken Burch Dec 2017 #76
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #78
FarPoint Dec 2017 #80
Lint Head Dec 2017 #82
Hoyt Dec 2017 #83
Pope George Ringo II Dec 2017 #84
HopeAgain Dec 2017 #85
catbyte Dec 2017 #87
110liberal Dec 2017 #88
McCamy Taylor Dec 2017 #90

Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:38 PM

1. Well it decreased the republican manority by one. Its all good.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:39 PM

49. That was one of two "earthquakes" mentioned by

a thoughtful conservative on I think Maddow, an editor of The Atlantic. It's hardly nothing that a senate determined to destroy all progressive programs and continue the transfer of wealth and power to a few lost a member and that the army fighting for democracy gained one. They're still the majority, but it's a thinnest majority.

But the second earthquake he pointed out was national: That Senator-elect Jones won by campaigning very simply on decency and respect for others -- and that sold big in a blood-red state where Democrats normally have no chance at all. Notably, women, younger generations and minorities flocked to his flag. If we can win Alabama (!) by campaigning for the decency and humanity that Republican extremists are trying to strip out of our systems, how much easier should swing states be?

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:38 PM

2. I don't see it as a turning point either

I think it is kind of pathetic that it was even close.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:35 PM

35. In a state where donnie won by 28%

 

It's a fucking miracle a Democrat won. It took STELLAR work on the ground to make it happen.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 02:08 PM

43. A miracle?

Local malls banned this guy for being a pedophile which was supported by a number of women coming forward with their yearbooks, etc and that became national news
He was also broadly shown to be racist, misogynistic and homophobic

And under those circumstances, the Democrat barely won ....

... and this is a "miracle"?

We obviously have different standards

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 02:44 PM

44. No - you just don't understand Alabama (n/t)

 

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:19 PM

46. Sadly, I think I do nt

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:02 PM

65. I certainly do and think the poster is correct.

One outlier does not a trend make.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 08:03 PM

92. I suspect this person understands Alabama

Re Jones - Moore: A little reality. Sorry.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029979976

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:01 PM

64. Also, the state's senior U.S. Senator gave tantamount blessing

to GOP voters casting write-ins for a non-Moore name as a form of protest. In effect, they said they would rather burn their vote than vote for a Democrat.

Those write-ins totaled 22,819. Jones won by 20,715.

In 2020, Alabama will graduate to the mean and leave a lot of Democrats disillusioned.

Thankfully, federal seats will be gained in other states in 2018 and 2020.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 05:44 PM

60. Oh, so I guess we should just forfeit the seat, then...

Since we evidently didn't do enough to "deserve" it

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:41 PM

3. The seat will go back Republican in 2020

 

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:44 PM

6. That depends on how he performs in the eyes of the state

There's a tendency for incumbents to keep getting re-elected.

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

10. The Republican Party is aging and dying.

 

The Democratic Party is the party of the young.

So the seat may or may not go back to the Republicans in 2020. Depends on how the universities are funded, how the parents of the young do as they age (in terms of Social Security and Medicare and how much Republican cuts to those programs push the cost of caring for aging parents on the young), on whether wars have to be fought, on whether money goes for war rather than for building communities, depends on lots of things.

The youth vote tends to be Democratic -- and for good reason.
The Republicans are literally dying out.

If you were 40 in 1980, and a Ronald Reagan voter, you are now 77. You are aging. If you were 30 in 1980, you are now 67. And so it goes. The Reagan generation is disappearing. And with it, a lot of Republican voters. I myself am 74, so I notice this demographic change.

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Response to Sophia4 (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:13 PM

67. Do you remember Eugene McCarthy and McGovern plus many others who have depended on the youth vote.

 

The problem with being 70 is I have too many things to remember that throw road blocks in my conclusions.

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:48 PM

11. we're on track to win a lot of seats in the next 2 election cycles that we may not be able to hold

but such is the nature of the beast.

incumbency has its advantages, so who knows, we might be able to hold some of those seats.

in the meanwhile, we should be happy to win our majorities however we can.

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Response to unblock (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:23 PM

48. Agree, Unblock. It's the nature of democracy.

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:21 PM

26. Your concern is noted.

But funnier things have happened.

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:41 PM

51. Not if we get out the vote like this time

This was an off-election, not even a midterm.

2020 will bring out more voters. And we have learned from 2016.

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Response to JimBeard (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:05 PM

86. Look at it as a 3 year rental.

Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:52 AM - Edit history (1)

Happy to rent it, but I dont think we can afford to keep it.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:43 PM

4. If Moore was not a child molestor, If Moore was not racist, Jones would lose

 

in a landslide. Moore was the perfect storm of pig.*






* with apologies to actual pigs everywhere

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Response to Thor_MN (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:48 PM

12. Moore perfectly represented the bigotry and hypocrisy of the Republican Party

 

and its philosophy of "me first." "You" don't matter at all.

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Response to Thor_MN (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:56 PM

53. I don't think the racism hurt him sadly and probably helped him win the primaries.

 

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:43 PM

5. I think it's a turning point

voter turn out was at a record high. Moore did well in rural counties but Jones greatly out preformed in the cities and suburbs. I think it proves that dems can be competitive anywhere if your run a good campaign.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:45 PM

7. I think Moore still had it...

until Mrs. said, "One of our attorneys is a JEW." (her emphasis on Jew not mine). She might have lost that crucial skin head vote.

She nailed the coffin..




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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:36 PM

37. I think it was Sen Shelby

 

that turned the tide. He made it okay for conservatives to either stay home or write in.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #37)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:03 PM

66. +100

**

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

8. it was a perfect storm of good news for us. some of it particular to that race, but others not.

ya gotta think had the republican not been a child molester that would have earned him at least as much as the margin of victory, that being a little more than 1%. i mean, surely the whole hitting on 14-year olds issue cost him at least 2%.

so, yeah, it's not likely that we can repeat this in other deep red states.


that said, alabama proved that given the right candidate and the right circumstances, we can win anywhere.

moreover, we benefited not just from moore being moore, but also from donnie being one of the least popular presidents ever, and with huge discontent over the state of politics and government because of the republican party.

independents are starting to lean more left than right, and democrats are more motivated than they have been in a long time. our motivation to restore democracy in 2018 and 2020 might even exceed our motivation to vote for a black president in 2008.

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Response to unblock (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:51 PM

14. The 14-year-old was the headline-catching issue in this race, but there is a

 

similar issue in every race in which a Republican runs.

The economic and social philosophy of the Republican Party is simply sick. That is why Democrats who are true to the high ground of the philosophy and ideals of the Democratic Party should win everywhere.

Our essential view on how government should work for everyone works. We have to believe in it because it works and win because we work for it.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

9. If my aunt had wheels she'd be a car.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:48 PM

13. I don't know

 

I do know that Republicans having a sexual predator for a candidate doesn't mean we win so clearly Doug Jones did something right.

There are lessons to be learned from Alabama '17. They may not help us every time in places like Alabama, but they sure as hell will help us in places like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:51 PM

15. You mean that Alabama didn't just become a bastion of liberal thought

I'm shocked!



However, a DEMOCRAT (and pro choice DEMOCRAT) won. That's big.
Alabama might be the reddest state in the union. And it wasn't just that Moore was a pedophile 40 years ago.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:53 PM

16. I dont believe Jones would have won against somebody decent, however,

I still believe this election was a turning point, because it showed the strength of the party working together. It filled us all with hope, and determination. It showed that better days are a possibility. No matter the circumstances, nor how narrow the victory, it is a positive that can cause momentum.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:55 PM

17. What it does show.

Is that the AA vote is critical to American progress and 23% of White men and 35% of White women are fair minded people. Let's start with that and work forward.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:56 PM

91. I agree with thst. When I heard the AA vote

 

was 30% I was checking to be sure I heard it right. In that I think there was a turning point.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:58 PM

18. Not to be Debbie Downer

but, yeah, this was a case of a bad candidate losing more than a good candidate winning. Had the write-ins voted for Moore, he would be the one celebrating. Jones will be another Manchin Democrat, which hey, better than the alternative, of course. But he's going to have to vote with the republicans a lot more than we'd like in order to retain that seat.

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Response to eissa (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:00 PM

20. i think that would be supremely stupid.

if he doesnt dance w the one that brung him, he wont get another dance.

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Response to eissa (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:29 PM

33. Manchin has not voted for the GOP even once on policy this term.

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Response to eissa (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:36 PM

36. I'd be more than happy if I'm proven wrong

and Jones goes on to become a strong progressive voice in the Senate. I'm just trying to be realistic given the very conservative state he comes from, and the politics of having to keep that seat.

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Response to eissa (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 04:46 PM

58. My post got hidden for saying this.

 

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 05:39 PM

59. That's odd

I wonder why? I was thrilled last night with Jones' win. It was such a stunning surprise, and really restored my faith. I just don't think we should be too over-confident with this win. Had a normal republican won the primary, I don't think we could have beat him, hence my prediction that Jones will be more of a centrist-right voice in the Senate, which again -- much better than the alternative.

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Response to eissa (Reply #59)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:18 PM

68. It was deemed as right wing talking point. I would say that I agree with your post but then

 

that would be looked at as agreeing with a right wing talking point....so no you're wrong this is the beginning of Bammy being Blue !!! Yaaaayyyyy!!!!

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #68)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:35 PM

75. Oh, FFS!

A right-wing talking point?! LOL! No, I'm not going to be overly-optimistic; I learned that lesson the hard way last year. If Alabama starts trending purple in future elections, and Jones turns out to be a strong progressive voice and retains his seat, I'd be more than happy to eat my words

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Response to eissa (Reply #75)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:40 PM

77. They may of just alerted on me because my post count is low. n/t

 

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:59 PM

19. here is what turned-

thug voters who have been loyal to the party their whole lives found a line they could not cross. once you draw such a line, i think human psychology will lead you to look for more lines to not cross to convince yourself you are a decent person who did the right thing.
the wedge has been set. if we hit it when we hammer away, the split will widen.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:03 PM

21. What it is here is a lesson

 

To never dismiss a race as a “lost cause” and then as a result run a half assed campaign or a poor choice of candidate.


Because you never know when your opponent is going to hand you the chance of victory.

All races need maximum effort and the best possible candidate running.

You have to be positioned to take maximum advantage of every mistake your opponent makes or every bit of bad luck that they get. So when chances like this come around you don’t let them slip by.

We got lucky that this was a special election with no other races at the same time, so it got maximum attention and the problems with Moore got maximum media exposure. I question if we would have won the exact same race in a normal cycle.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:06 PM

22. " Because you never know when your opponent is going to hand you the chance of victory."

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity."

-Seneca

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:08 PM

23. no, his opponent would still have been a republican so no chance of a decent upstanding individual

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:10 PM

24. You guys need to look at some of the maps of the 2018 election............

 

some of the 8 states that the Republicans need to defend.

Texas
Nebraska,
Arizona
Nevada
Wyoming
Utah
Mississippi
Tennessee

Democrats need to defend 24. See what I mean!

https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_elections,_2018

Scroll down to see the map

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:19 PM

25. Probably not, but even before Moore was outed for underage kids

 

The race was closer than it would have been in 2016 or 2014 just like races in Kansas and Georgia. We won't win every special election, but we are consistently getting a far better vote share win or lose. That's a good thing.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:22 PM

27. Yesterday it was Jones couldn't win

Last month it was Virginia was going to stay solid Republican.

Today it's all about denying the prize.

I'm beginning to discern a pattern.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:22 PM

28. We're Talking About Alabama

Had the Republicans not run quite possibly the worst candidate in recorded history, they would have won. They ran the worst possible candidate and STILL almost won. In the Deep South, they vote for the R after the name, and nothing else really matters.

What we CAN take from this is that this is yet more confirmation that Trump's unpopularity is dragging down Republican candidates nationwide, and there's no reason to believe the trend won't continue into 2018. We should take this as a great springboard into taking back the Congress in 2018, and then righting some of the wrongs that have been going on this year.

Whether or not Doug Jones keeps his seat in 2020 shouldn't taint his victory right now. It's a referendum on Trump, and even Alabama is giving an emphatic one-finger salute to Trump. That's why it's so exciting. The implications of parlaying this into taking back Congress in 2018.

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Response to ChoppinBroccoli (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:27 PM

71. I can't reconcile your first paragraph with the last two

This election was about Roy Moore's loss, not Jones' win, not Trump's popularity in Alabama which I can assure you is still high.

Jones has a two-year window to make a difference for the national party because unless his 2020 opponent goes on TV to simultaneously sacrifice a nine-year-old Confederate re-enactor while urinating on a Bible and screaming "Fuck the Crimson Tide!" then he's not getting re-elected.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:25 PM

29. This was about 2 peas in a pod

Moore and Maggot.
48/48 approval in a GOP bastion?
It wasn't just Moore on ballot.
That's why this IS significant.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:26 PM

30. I do...

They could have elected him...and didn't ...deep red state...and the Black turnout increased...good deal...the GOP is in massive trouble.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:29 PM

31. Probably not, but you're missing an equally important question.

Would Jones have won had we not had this cartoon character of a President?

Trump has been dragging down Republicans this year in the range of 20-30 points. Without those headwinds, Moore likely would have won (although you could argue that a Republican Party with a more serious leader would have prevented him from being nominated in the first place). There's no doubt in my mind that Moore would have won a race against Jones if Obama were still President. Moore would likely have underperformed other Republicans, but he still would have won comfortably.

The story is, and will continue to be, Trump hurting GOP candidates all over the map.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:29 PM

32. we got lucky

that moore’s pediphilia allegations came out at the right time. He’s been awful long befor they came out though. If not those allegations, he would have easily won, no doubt. Doug needs to do a good job now for the next 6 months so people in other states would see that a democrat would be better for their state. This would majorily help us in 2018.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:34 PM

34. Jones Can Immediately Start Working On Reducing Abortions

 

Free family planning nationwide.
Free birth control.
Free childcare services.
Affordable health care for single moms, poor families.
Effective Sex Education.
Jobs programs for single mothers.
Affordable education for single mothers.
Additional opportunities and help for single mothers or poor families.

Many women would love to have children, but it would make it almost impossible for some to be successful in other areas.

Work on changing that.

Win every vote in Alabama Doug.

Make it an advantage to have a child and be able to be a good mom / family with opportunities.

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Response to SeaDoo77 (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:29 PM

72. If he does all that while proclaimin his aim is to "reduce abortions" it might not be a bad strategy

Although a sizable contingent will still opt for abstinence-only approaches and a reduction in all "social giveaways."

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:36 PM

38. Moore was a bad candidate, but that's sort of the point

Republicans run a lot of bad candidates. They found one so repulsive even Alabama wasn't biting. That's why this is a turning point. They won't learn their lesson and will run more bad candidates. Steve Bannon will see to it. We have to be ready everywhere with our own high quality candidates. Even a prochoice candidate can win a conservative area if he speaks to bread and butter issues and gets out the vote.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:30 PM

73. The national party didn't do that, Alabama voters did

The GOP didn't handpick Moore. The voters in Alabama's primary and runoff did it.

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Response to misanthrope (Reply #73)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:32 PM

89. GOP voters have done it before, they will do it again

They gave us witches, legitimate rapists, and Trump. They are ready to do even more next time, when Banmon primaries the Senators he doesn't like.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:37 PM

39. Of course not.

Let's enjoy the seat while we have it, because it's a temporary thing.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:32 PM

74. Completely agree

**

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:37 PM

40. Maybe not.

Moore being a horrible candidate hurt him and helped Jones. A different Republican might have won.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:41 PM

41. Not a chance Jones wins against a normal candidate.

But Jones may align with Dems, but i predict much hate being leveled against him here shortly.

We’ll label him a DINO and bitch about how we need a real progressive in that seat.

He’s likely to vote for this concealed carry bill here shortly, and i predict that’s when we’ll turn on him.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:42 PM

79. He is a Democrat...remember we support Democrats.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 01:48 PM

42. No, but the GOP primary process excluded those possibilities.

Now Jones and the democratic party have 2 years to appeal to people of Alabama.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 02:45 PM

45. He wouldn't have won, but it still would have been close.

 

I think Moore was hurt by Trump's declining popularity everywhere more than he was hurt by the allegations of pedophilia. But without both Jones gets blown out.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:21 PM

47. Of course not.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:39 PM

50. It's a turning point as it showed the limitiations of Trump and Bannon

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:47 PM

52. FRankly, I Could Care Less

He did win. Nobody thought he had a chance but he won and I'll take it and for now let the future take care of itself. Anything can happen these days.

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Response to Me. (Reply #52)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:43 PM

81. I'm with you...some of the folks here predicted that Jones would lose and have written other

debbie downer posts.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:57 PM

54. A win is still a win

Going to savor the flavor.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:59 PM

55. No way. Roy Moore was a gift to Democrats. (nt)

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 04:03 PM

56. Alabama is far from blue

But nice job last night

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 04:23 PM

57. I will always remember Doug Jones for

Having the guts to run in a red state. He put his name out there when he had no idea Luther Strange would not be the Republican nominee. He's not afraid to lose. That inspires me.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 05:44 PM

61. Your concern is noted

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 05:48 PM

62. It IS a turning point...

It is a turning point in that, in a Deep Red State, waving a handgun, spouting the Ten Commandments (even if not following them, lol) and having all the "right" views wasn't enough to put an R in office in the face of charges of sexual improprieties with minors.

Edited to add:

It is also a turning point in showing that a vigorous get-out-the-vote can work at the right time and place even in the face of a seeming demographic impossibility (a Democrat in 'Bama post Nixon "Southern Strategy" ).

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 05:57 PM

63. Nope

I understand the optimism but there's a lot of extenuating circumstances in this one election that aren't being taken into account. Jones is up for re-election during a POTUS election, when turnout will be higher, when his opponent won't be the most vile person imaginable.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:20 PM

69. Sometimes a bad opponent is a blessing

In this case it was. In 2012, Claire McCaskill and Joe Donnelly won because of bad opponents.

Sadly, this does not work all the time (see Trump, Donald).

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:23 PM

70. Not at all

Moore was to Jones what Todd Akin was for Claire McCaskill. McCaskill told me in so many words that Akin would have been Senator from Missouri if he hadn't been so stupid as to invent "legitimate rape" on live TV.

She knows full well that Akin's stupidity was what won the 2012 election for her, and that her opponent next year will probably be made to watch the Akin tape ten times an hour for a week until he can swear in his sleep that he will never say anything so stupid with the cameras rolling.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:38 PM

76. Too early to tell.

 

The best case scenario is that it may have cracked the shell of Confederate thinking in Alabama. It the crack is deep enough, the sun will begin to peek through.

This MAY be a beginning.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:40 PM

78. Still at it...

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:43 PM

80. I believe he indeed would of won...

This Senate Seat was and is Senate Elect Jones's destiny.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:44 PM

82. There are no decent upstanding individuals in the Republican Party.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:46 PM

83. Fact is, our guy won. That's a good thing and should pay off in the future even if it only means

GOPers are more careful who they nominate.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 06:47 PM

84. I think I agree with the analysis I saw (538?) which split the 30 point swing into 3 parts

They said ten points of the swing from where Alabama was in 2016 was due to Trump being Trump. Ten points due to Roy Moore's history of being a raving lunatic. And then the last ten from Roy Moore also being revealed to be a pervert.

Without Moore, that's a twenty point hole Jones has to cover by being a good guy incumbent in the party opposite Trump. It's possible, but it's enough of a challenge I wouldn't want to say this election was the turning point so much as a foot in the door.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:00 PM

85. I see it as a personal loss

For Bannon and Trump. Moore is just the kind of nut Bannon is looking for.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:05 PM

87. Yeah, but when was the last time Repblicans put up a "decent, upstanding individual?"

Their deplorable base has a habit of nominating candidates as egregious as they are.

This WAS a turning point to me, another indication of a Blue Tide in 2018.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:30 PM

88. unique situation

the repubs put up a very very tainted candidate in a normal situation I don't think jones would have won but a big thanks is due to the dnc, and especially the African American voters. Take a look at the state next door Georgia, thousands and thousands of unregistered African American voters as Ben Jealous said if they would register the democrats would win a lot of elections in Georgia. Unlike 2016 the dnc is going after all groups. I didn't support Tom, Keith was the one I was for but both of them have done a great job. We have a long way to go.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Wed Dec 13, 2017, 07:37 PM

90. NO. This was an anti-Trump backlash.

And just like Kissinger's notorious comment about "salted peanuts", the backlash has made Trump haters all across the country so happy and giddy that they can not wait to cast their own anti-Trump vote in 2018.

(For those that don't remember, Kissinger said that bringing troops home from Vietnam alive was like giving Americans salted peanuts. It would only make them crave more. Kissinger is an a-hole)

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