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Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:08 AM Dec 2017

Al's punishment should fit the crime.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything Al Franken is accused of is true. The one-time groping (captured in a picture), the kissing, the squeezing.

Notice that this list of Al's "crimes" does not include murder, rape, attempted rape, kidnapping, treason, bribery, felony theft, or lying under oath. Al is accused of bad behavior to be sure, but nothing serious.

Al apologized. He sincerely apologized. He apologized for things he wasn't sure he even did. That is the mark of a man, a man trying to do the right thing.

So let the punishment fit the crime. And that would be probation. A letter of admonishment in your file. Not the loss of your livelihood. Not the loss of your job.

There is NO REASON why Franken should resign. At most, the Senate should pass a resolution of disapproval. Why even Democrat senators are calling for Al's head, that is beyond me. Is a misdemeanor now a capital offense?

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Al's punishment should fit the crime. (Original Post) Shemp Howard Dec 2017 OP
Since there was no crime, there should be no punishment. dchill Dec 2017 #1
+1000 Pachamama Dec 2017 #2
Indeed. That's what many have died for. dchill Dec 2017 #3
Can Franken demand an investigation? Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #8
That's exactly what he did! Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #11
I think he should just keep on being a Senator and ask again for an ethics investigation Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #14
Due process is certainly a right. Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #5
"Let the voters decide..." dchill Dec 2017 #7
I think that is backfiring against them already. Just look at Gillibrandd' FB page or look at the Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #9
Groping is generally a crime mythology Dec 2017 #20
But the picture did not show him groping Ms. Tweeden. (n/t) califootman Dec 2017 #22
So there were witnesses to what your coworker did. Demit Dec 2017 #29
Due Process in the Senate is an Ethics investigation tavalon Dec 2017 #35
Not only is he losing his livelihood, but his reputation is being dragged through the mud. n/t rainin Dec 2017 #4
Just to be clear: yallerdawg Dec 2017 #28
Those who called for Al franken's resignation... quickesst Dec 2017 #6
Listen to this anonymous accuser and tell me if she didn't get her idea from #45 Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #10
That does sound just like some of the accusations against Trump. LisaL Dec 2017 #18
It also sounds like what Harvey Weinstein would do mythology Dec 2017 #24
And I've read at least two accusers say that their stories are "eerily similar." Demit Dec 2017 #31
I feel like a decent person's first instinct is to apologize, no matter what More_Cowbell Dec 2017 #12
Agree spike91nz Dec 2017 #13
Senator Franken SHOULD NOT RESIGN... Raster Dec 2017 #15
Let's not assume that everything is true suegeo Dec 2017 #16
I think they should come down on him hard!!! Soxfan58 Dec 2017 #17
+100 flamingdem Dec 2017 #21
K&R uponit7771 Dec 2017 #19
I have to say this lillypaddle Dec 2017 #23
I think the photo is what did him in. CTyankee Dec 2017 #25
Notice this coordinated attack didn't happen until his name was being floated tavalon Dec 2017 #36
LOL - But David Vitter has!!! RandomAccess Dec 2017 #27
The so-called diaper photo was faked. Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #33
What crime? There was no crime committed BY Al Franken! democratisphere Dec 2017 #26
Some of the accusations arent even accusations Nevernose Dec 2017 #30
LOL Don't forget the one who said he had his hand on her breast for 5 or 10 seconds Demit Dec 2017 #32
You should have written Al's Senate speech! Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #34
We've all been taking crazy pills tavalon Dec 2017 #37

dchill

(39,109 posts)
1. Since there was no crime, there should be no punishment.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:12 AM
Dec 2017

But due process is really, really a right. A RIGHT.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
11. That's exactly what he did!
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:01 AM
Dec 2017

Franken himself asked for an ethics investigation. Here's what he said: “I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.”

But more than 30 Democrat senators said no. There must not be any investigation! Franken must resign, and he must resign now.

I can understand why a Republican senator would say that. That's politics. But 30+ Democrat senators said it. No to due process. No to an investigation.



Maraya1969

(22,811 posts)
14. I think he should just keep on being a Senator and ask again for an ethics investigation
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:27 AM
Dec 2017

and they can chose either "yes" or "no" Either way he win

He is being bullied by those people. Bullying doesn't have an age limit

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
5. Due process is certainly a right.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:28 AM
Dec 2017

I really can't blame Franken for folding. The pressure on him must have been enormous. I can only imagine the phone calls he must have gotten.

But I sure do blame the Democratic senators who abandoned him. The ones who thought due process shouldn't apply here. The ones who thought this small "scandal" was enough to destroy a man's career and reputation.

If I could offer only one piece of advice to Franken, it would be this: Don't resign! But if you feel you must resign, run for your own vacated seat. Don't let those feckless Democratic senators decide. Let the voters decide.



dchill

(39,109 posts)
7. "Let the voters decide..."
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:41 AM
Dec 2017

They already did. I'm sure Minnesotans agree.

The 33 Democrats aren't concerned with destroying a man's career or reputation. They're concerned about their own headline font size.

Maraya1969

(22,811 posts)
9. I think that is backfiring against them already. Just look at Gillibrandd' FB page or look at the
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 04:25 AM
Dec 2017

comments on her Twitter page.

I bet it never occurred to her that, "We The People" would fight back. And to such a great degree.

If anyone wants to comment just go to Titter and Facebook and click on something she wrote. That is where people are complaining.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
20. Groping is generally a crime
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:09 AM
Dec 2017

Due process doesn't apply. The government isn't prosecuting him. He's resigning from his job. I had a coworker once be forced to do the same after being arrested masturbating on the train. The company certainly didn't wait until he was convicted.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
29. So there were witnesses to what your coworker did.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:27 PM
Dec 2017

The police didn't arrest him for no reason, and your company didn't force him out based on hearsay.

You really nailed that comparison, lol.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
35. Due Process in the Senate is an Ethics investigation
Tue Dec 12, 2017, 01:05 AM
Dec 2017

Which Franken asked for and instead was railroaded.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
28. Just to be clear:
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:26 PM
Dec 2017
Sen. Al Franken's resignation weeks after facing allegations he groped and kissed women without their consent, will cost him his $174,000 salary from that position.

However, he has other streams of income, according a financial disclosure he filed earlier this year.

The Democratic senator from Minnesota received about $164,000 in pension payments in 2016, apparently from his time in the entertainment industry. He also received a $332,750 advance for his latest book, “Giant of the Senate,” which came out earlier this year. In 2015, The Huffington Post reported the book deal was worth at least $1 million, which made it to No. 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list.

Prior to his time in Congress, Franken was a writer for NBC's "Saturday Night Live" and had various roles onscreen. He'd also had several best-selling books, with more than 2 million copies sold even before "Giant of the Senate" came out.

Franken also could qualify for an annual pension of roughly $24,000 from his time in Congress, according to a calculation from the National Taxpayers Union, which is a Washington D.C.-based conservative-leaning nonprofit.

His estimated net worth as of 2015 was just over $7 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/12/what-resignation-will-cost-al-franken.html

quickesst

(6,294 posts)
6. Those who called for Al franken's resignation...
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:40 AM
Dec 2017

... faster than a speeding bullet, are in my opinion, a major reason we can't have nice things.................... like a majority.

Maraya1969

(22,811 posts)
10. Listen to this anonymous accuser and tell me if she didn't get her idea from #45
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 04:43 AM
Dec 2017

"The unidentified accuser, who is a former Democratic congressional aide, spoke to Politico and shared how she says she ducked to avoid Franken kissing her as she tried to leave the radio studio.

She said that as she left the room, he allegedly said "It's my right as an entertainer," according to Politico."

Al Franken categorically denies he ever said that statement.

I have read all of them and I smell a bunch of fishes.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862

LisaL

(45,795 posts)
18. That does sound just like some of the accusations against Trump.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 07:13 AM
Dec 2017

And anonymous, so of course we don't know anything about the accuser, yet she is counted as a victim.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
24. It also sounds like what Harvey Weinstein would do
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:46 AM
Dec 2017

It's not exactly uncommon to try to leverage relative power.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
31. And I've read at least two accusers say that their stories are "eerily similar."
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:40 PM
Dec 2017

That was an odd emphasis. It struck me because 1) it seemed out of place for a victim to editorialize about her own experience and 2) the stories were NOT all similar.

More_Cowbell

(2,196 posts)
12. I feel like a decent person's first instinct is to apologize, no matter what
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:16 AM
Dec 2017

That's what *I* do, as soon as I find out that I offended someone.

And I think that Al Franken is a decent person, although I don't have any problem believing that, especially in his "comedian" days, he behaved differently than he does today.

And I think that the "decent person" response is endemic to Democrats and not Republicans. Therefore, we suffer.

I'd love to see a full investigation. I'd love to hear Leann Tweeden's response to her friend Tom Arnold's accusations. Other than her, I'm willing to believe most of the accusers. Let's have an investigation!

I think that if we don't investigate these things, then Democrats are going to resign and Republicans (except for people who encouraged their mistresses to have abortions, which seems to be the GOP hard line) will stay.

That doesn't help *anyone.*

Raster

(20,999 posts)
15. Senator Franken SHOULD NOT RESIGN...
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 06:08 AM
Dec 2017

...There should be a formal Ethics Investigation, where all parties are put under oath. I guarantee Leeann Tweeden IS. A. LIAR. This is a setup and a rat-fucking, courtesy of Roger Stone* and the rethuglican dirty tricks gang.

suegeo

(2,650 posts)
16. Let's not assume that everything is true
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 06:12 AM
Dec 2017

and that it was all republican rat fucking. And the fascists are stealing another senate seat, where they will fling down all kinds of shit on people who don't deserve it.

But I get what you're saying. There are laws, some crimes are worse than others, and the punishments for breaking different kinds are laws are different because who would throw someone in jail for years for jay walking? Unless they are out to get slave labor, and I wouldn't put that past some of the republicans and billionaires.

'But fuck it. Al didn't do anything wrong.

lillypaddle

(9,593 posts)
23. I have to say this
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:41 AM
Dec 2017

When Al first ran for office, there were all kinds of negative ads, including a picture of him rolling around on a bed in a diaper. I never found that type of humor funny, but oh well ... it was the type of humor found on SNL at the time. As far as I know, he hasn't rolled around in a diaper during his senate term, has he?

The picture of him ALMOST cupping Tweeden's breasts is the same sort of thing - and was obviously supposed to be a joke as he was mugging for the camera, and it was not while he was in office.

As for Tina Dupuy, she is washed up and is looking for attention, IMHO. I am furious that Al Franken has been forced out over this shit.

CTyankee

(64,160 posts)
25. I think the photo is what did him in.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:08 PM
Dec 2017

We shoulda known that this is the kind of politics that the Republicans play now are political long knives. They want to eviscerate our party and they will stop at nothing. We have now had to sacrifice one of our best Democrats in politics over what is obviously a plot to ruin our Party.

We'd better stop being defensive and go on the offense.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
36. Notice this coordinated attack didn't happen until his name was being floated
Tue Dec 12, 2017, 01:09 AM
Dec 2017

as a possible Presidential candidate and after he single handedly took the Keebler Elf to the woodshed.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
27. LOL - But David Vitter has!!!
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:22 PM
Dec 2017

Couldn't resist.

he hasn't rolled around in a diaper during his senate term, has he?

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
33. The so-called diaper photo was faked.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:49 PM
Dec 2017

That diaper photo was faked.

https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2009/05/04/drudge-smears-joker-franken-with-doctored-photo/149789

But the so-called groping photo was real. And as CTyankee said, that was a big problem for Al. I thought he addressed it honestly, and sincerely. Even the woman involved accepted his apology.

http://time.com/5028172/leeann-tweeden-al-franken-apology/

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
30. Some of the accusations arent even accusations
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:34 PM
Dec 2017

Which is the thing that I find the most maddening.

“He kissed me on the cheek, but I could tell that he secretly WANTED to tongue kiss me while the New England Women’s Society watched.” That’s not an accusation, that’s crazy talk.

Her corroboration was a person at the same event that said “I was there and it’s true. I know because Al Franken looked at my boobs.” That’s like an SNL skit. Certainly nothing a reasonable person should take seriously.

“Once, when we were total strangers and met for the first time, I could tell that Al Franken WANTED to kiss me. Then he quoted Donald Trump’s ‘when you’re a star’ line.” That’s not an accusation of wrong doing. It’s a claim of psychic powers.

“While posing for pictures he put his hand around my waist and gave me what might have been a playful squeeze, but I had body weight/self-esteem issues” isn’t an allegation of wrongdoing. There is no allegation there. Even if he did exactly what she said, there is no allegation of wrongdoing, legal, moral, any possible way. “That’s how I know he sexually assaulted those other anonymous accusers” is just kind of insulting after the that.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
32. LOL Don't forget the one who said he had his hand on her breast for 5 or 10 seconds
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:47 PM
Dec 2017

and offers as proof a photo that shows no such thing.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
34. You should have written Al's Senate speech!
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 01:01 PM
Dec 2017

You made many good points there. This situation is maddening indeed.

There is only one legitimate incident in this whole mess, the so-called groping incident. Franken offered a sincere apology for that, and the woman involved accepted his apology.

That should have been the end of it. And it would have been, if Franken's colleagues in the Senate hadn't stabbed him in the back.


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