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Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:26 PM

I love Al Franken as much as anyone

If I had been consulted I would have advised him to ride it out. He says the allegations are not true, which doesn't mean they aren't true but at this point he has the benefit of my doubt. He knows whether the allegations are true and if he knows those allegations to be false then he should stand his ground and stick it in the Republicans' ear.

But our causes are more important than one man. Apparently Democrats have deemed Al's resignation to be the best and only way forward. I have to give those Democrats the benefit of that doubt too and in any event I'm not going to pitch a fit here. We pick up the pieces and we move forward.

F*** #fakepresident and his toxic cult followers.

44 replies, 1679 views

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Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply I love Al Franken as much as anyone (Original post)
Cary Dec 2017 OP
True Dough Dec 2017 #1
secondwind Dec 2017 #29
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2017 #32
Tatiana Dec 2017 #2
delisen Dec 2017 #9
Cary Dec 2017 #10
fallout87 Dec 2017 #14
Cary Dec 2017 #15
Hortensis Dec 2017 #33
delisen Dec 2017 #20
Cary Dec 2017 #26
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2017 #34
Cary Dec 2017 #38
yardwork Dec 2017 #17
secondwind Dec 2017 #30
Loki Liesmith Dec 2017 #3
Cary Dec 2017 #11
octoberlib Dec 2017 #35
Cary Dec 2017 #39
Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #4
CentralMass Dec 2017 #5
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #6
Cary Dec 2017 #12
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #18
delisen Dec 2017 #21
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #22
Cary Dec 2017 #23
delisen Dec 2017 #24
Cary Dec 2017 #25
delisen Dec 2017 #27
Cary Dec 2017 #28
questionseverything Dec 2017 #31
Hortensis Dec 2017 #36
Cary Dec 2017 #37
questionseverything Dec 2017 #42
delisen Dec 2017 #7
VOX Dec 2017 #8
Cary Dec 2017 #13
VOX Dec 2017 #19
yardwork Dec 2017 #16
NCTraveler Dec 2017 #40
FSogol Dec 2017 #41
NastyRiffraff Dec 2017 #43
ananda Dec 2017 #44

Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:31 PM

1. Cary

On a very tumultuous day, following weeks of disagreement and bickering, yours is one of the more reasoned and pragmatic posts I have read.

Thank you.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:06 AM

29. Thank you for this post!!!

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:20 AM

32. I third that motion.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:35 PM

2. This is about leaving no decent Democrat behind. And today we did.

If we had stood up and fought for Senator Franken, Republicans would hesitate to use this strategy again. But what did we do? We simply emboldened them.

We are pathetic strategists and I look forward to some younger and better decision-makers to lead this party because the so-called "leaders" we have bring to mind the saying "With friends like these..."

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:54 PM

9. All I can think is: will they leave us behind too.


Much as I understand that senators are rarely leaders, and even more rarely, bold leaders--this event is still unsettling.

Schumer has had his successes with Trump, recognizing Jerusalem is one--but what price are we paying? I just don't know.

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Response to delisen (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:14 PM

10. You don't know that

It's too easy to second guess. I assume that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Shumer have polling, focus groups, and a longer term strategy and I assume Al Franken was fully conferred.

What's the point of having leaders if you're going to not trust them? Are you sticking your neck out?

I'll leave the anti-government moping to "conservative" mopes.

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Response to Cary (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:21 PM

14. Polling?

Sorry, but how can we rely on making strategic moves after the polling disaster of 2016??

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:25 PM

15. The polling was correct.

Many of us saw voter suppression coming.

Anyway you don't have an alternative. A rational person uses available data and plays the odds. Personally I Domingo for folksy "wisdom." An occasional deviation from the odds can be okay but the house always wins. Always, unless the owner is #fakepresident .

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Response to Cary (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:25 AM

33. Thanks for your sensible input, Cary.

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Response to Cary (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:37 PM

20. It is he job of a citizen to think, to question, to analyze,

While it may be easy to 2nd guess, it is even easier to blindly follow.


Legislators legislate-make laws, negotiate, engage in political trading. They are not necessarily leaders. Often they are followers of public opinion.

I am under no obligation as a citizen to blindly follow any representative-especially those who are not obligated to represent me.

Hope that clarifies my post for you.

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Response to delisen (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:34 PM

26. I cannot support what you're trying to say

Vote Democratic!

It's that simple and you have no viable alternative.

Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

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Response to Cary (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:30 AM

34. You're probably right about the polling.

"Asked if a politician should resign if accused by multiple, credible people of sexual harassment or assault, 66 percent say yes."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/12/07/the-sexual-assault-epidemic-is-real/?utm_term=.1f6ebd9ce3e6

We're turning on ourselves because Democrats, lead by women legislators, want to draw a bright line in the sand on the issue of sexual assault. Al Franken can go on to do bigger & better things, but these accusations would have been a millstone around his neck everytime a new allegation surfaced. I can't see him being nearly as effective after these allegations as he was before.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:34 AM

38. At least for now

I bet Al lands on his feet, somehow.

Those who hate Democrats will certainly try to use this to sow discord and discontent. I bet Al doesn't approve of that.

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:36 PM

17. We don't know everything.

Cary is right. We owe our Democratic leaders the benefit of the doubt too.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:09 AM

30. Hear, hear. Excellent response.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:42 PM

3. Quit or stay I dont really care about Franken

I do care that this guilt by accusation storm is getting out of control.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:17 PM

11. Has it ever worked for Republicans?

What makes you think this doesn't bite them in the ass yet again? Their cult leader is guilty of this up to his eyeballs. Do you not suppose venal and craven Republicans have more to lose?

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Response to Cary (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:31 AM

35. Actually, it works for Republicans all the time.

They win because of it. Who’s in the WhiteHouse right now? Tons of women voted for him.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:36 AM

39. Republicans win when we don't vote

You will not see me sowing discord and discontent. I will not be doing Steve Bannon's dirty work.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:42 PM

4. I've been thinking the same thing all day. You said it better than I could.

Amen.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:42 PM

5. The senate ethics commitee should have reviewed this case.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:43 PM

6. All the pieces won't be there to pick up. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:18 PM

12. Oh ye of little faith

We shall see.

As George Harrison said, life's a game sometimes you're cool sometimes you're lame.

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Response to Cary (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:36 PM

18. I am of no faith. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:40 PM

21. Faith is for religion. Faith-based politics is for the foolish.

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Response to delisen (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:40 PM

22. You talkin' to me? n/t

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Response to delisen (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:01 PM

23. Go off the grid

Live off the land.

Trusting others and having an organic community is something we acquired via natural selection.

I'm not willing to hold elective office. I must trust others as others trust me in the work that I do.

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Response to Cary (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:10 PM

24. You are making unwarranted assumptions


If one does not trust politicians who are not obligated to represent one it does not follow that one trusts no one else.

Nor does it mean that one should "get off the grid" or Live off the land."

You are free to trust whomever you choose, just as I am.

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Response to delisen (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:32 PM

25. No one said you weren't.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I don't approve of any "both sides do it." One side is evil. If you aren't helping our side then you're helping evil.

Nothing you can say will convince otherwise.

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Response to Cary (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:42 PM

27. Sorry your post makes no sense to me, no point

in continuing.

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Response to delisen (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:45 PM

28. That is a sorry old ploy.

Good grief.

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Response to Cary (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 03:31 AM

31. both sides were evil today

or just stupid

sorry to burst your bubble but those dem senators WORK for us

we the people...the ones the deep pockets call nobodies

we HAD a really good chance to turn this around and the dem

"leadership" decided to quit on us

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:35 AM

36. 32 senators, LEAD BY 13 WOMEN, took down Franken.

Our senate leaders had called for investigation while they looked to see if they could or should save Franken.

WHY are you and others blaming the leadership AGAINST ALL EVIDENCE?

What's really going on here?

We could argue if blaming the leadership is more stupid than evil or more evil than stupid, but that it's profoundly dishonest is a no-brainer.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:28 AM

37. Exactly

The past is prologue. We must move forward.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:32 PM

42. the "leaders" have shown no evidence, if they have something they best make it public

all the evidence in the public view tells me franken has been "acorned"

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:46 PM

7. When they came for Al Franken, some Dems saw opportunity

and others said nothing,

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:46 PM

8. Cary, you are a class act.

Your post tells me that you’re a fair person who doesn’t sweep dirt under the rug, but who also understands that the dirt may not be 100% genuine.

Thanks for the moment of sanity in a very insane day/month/year.

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Response to VOX (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:20 PM

13. Strap in VOX, and pace yourself

It's going to get worse.

Our nation is like a body rejecting a bad organ transplant.

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Response to Cary (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:37 PM

19. You said it. *click*

*tightens seat belt* Ready.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:34 PM

16. The worst response would be to stop supporting Democrats.

Voting third party in protest would be a stupid reaction, ensuring that even more Republicans win.

We move forward. We elect more Democrats. We take back our country.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:38 AM

40. K&R nt

 

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:32 PM

41. K&R. n/t

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:39 PM

43. Finally, a Franken post that makes sense

I've been very conflicted about this whole issue with Al. I too love him and I tend to think the charges against him are, at best, exaggerated. At least some of them are. My heart says that he shouldn't have resigned, but I do have a head also. Both are deeply saddened right now.

But, regardless, I support Democrats. Even if they're flawed (as we all are; I know I am). Even when they're wrong, although it's right to point out that they're wrong. At their worst, they're miles better than the Republican Party.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:46 PM

44. I'm pitching a fit!

This is just SO wrong and harmful to all of us!

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