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Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:13 PM

New: Mueller buried a tool in Flynn plea agreement that could protect Russia probe from Trump pardon

"Bob Mueller didn't just get Mike Flynn to flip, he got him to pledge potential cooperation with local prosecutors who Donald Trump can't touch"
Mueller buried a tool in Flynn plea agreement that could protect Russia probe from Trump pardon



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Reply New: Mueller buried a tool in Flynn plea agreement that could protect Russia probe from Trump pardon (Original post)
MelissaB Dec 2017 OP
MelissaB Dec 2017 #1
former9thward Dec 2017 #2
Kaleva Dec 2017 #4
former9thward Dec 2017 #19
mercuryblues Dec 2017 #27
Qutzupalotl Dec 2017 #5
former9thward Dec 2017 #17
Qutzupalotl Dec 2017 #20
former9thward Dec 2017 #24
LiberalFighter Dec 2017 #11
former9thward Dec 2017 #18
OilemFirchen Dec 2017 #21
former9thward Dec 2017 #25
OilemFirchen Dec 2017 #26
former9thward Dec 2017 #31
OilemFirchen Dec 2017 #33
former9thward Dec 2017 #34
OilemFirchen Dec 2017 #35
Kaleva Dec 2017 #3
Wwcd Dec 2017 #6
Hortensis Dec 2017 #9
PJMcK Dec 2017 #12
Wwcd Dec 2017 #13
Hortensis Dec 2017 #22
Me. Dec 2017 #16
NewJeffCT Dec 2017 #28
Hortensis Dec 2017 #30
ananda Dec 2017 #7
bdamomma Dec 2017 #8
MyNameIsKhan Dec 2017 #10
charlyvi Dec 2017 #14
Barack_America Dec 2017 #15
FakeNoose Dec 2017 #32
Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #23
NewJeffCT Dec 2017 #29

Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:16 PM

1. Updated w/ second video: Mueller buried a tool in Flynn plea agreement that could protect Russia pro

Mueller buried a tool in Flynn plea agreement that could protect Russia probe from Trump pardon

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:18 PM

2. No, it doesn't work that way.

A pardon would free Flynn from any plea agreement no matter what it said.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:26 PM

4. Flynn couldn't then plead the 5th

He'd have to answer all questions.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:46 PM

19. Not to local prosecutors

The pardon would just cover federal crimes, not local.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 12:14 PM

27. for federal charges

Flynn can't plead the 5th. He is compelled to testify, even if he is pardoned. Now here is the fun part. If Flynn tries to lie, Mueller and his team have his written, sworn, signed statement. Lying will nullify the deal and Flynn will face perjury charges with everything else.

Never play poker with Mueller. He always has cards up his sleeve.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:33 PM

5. A president can't pardon state charges. n/t

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:43 PM

17. Which has nothing to do with this subject.

A pardon would invalidate the plea agreement to cooperate with local prosecutors.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:46 AM

20. It's the subject of the OP.

It doesn't matter if Flynn cooperates with state AGs, he still faces prosecution.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 11:19 AM

24. For what state crimes?

I have heard no speculation about state crimes Flynn might have committed.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:33 PM

11. Mueller has a bit more experience than you do.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:44 PM

18. Actually he doesn't.

He has never done defense work.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:53 AM

21. Who are you?

After receiving his law degree in 1973, Mueller worked as a litigator at the firm Pillsbury, Madison and Sutro in San Francisco until 1976.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller#Law_career

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 11:29 AM

25. I will cut and paste what you didn't.

Pillsbury is a full-service law firm with an industry focus on energy and natural resources, financial services including financial institutions, real estate and construction, and technology. Based in the world's major financial, technology and energy centers, Pillsbury counsels clients on global business, regulatory and litigation matters.

First of all, no one is a "litigator" straight out of law school. Especially for a major law firm. They have the title of attorney but those years are spent getting coffee and doing research for the people who might actually be the courtroom.

Second, and more important, do you read the word "criminal" in the description of their work? They don't do criminal law which is what we are talking about here. Mueller has only been a prosecutor and never has done a minute of defense work. Prosecutors think they can do no wrong which is why so many of them over reach and get into trouble.

I know Mueller has become a god to some but I am afraid they will be deeply disappointed in the end.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 12:06 PM

26. He worked for a private firm.

To state that "he has never done defense work" borders on ignorance.

If you're an attorney, you should know to be careful with declaratives.

It's on the record that he's done more defense work than you - unless you wish to prove otherwise.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:05 PM

31. It seems you have access to his work product during that time.

So why don't you tell us what criminal defense work he did at a private firm that does not do criminal law.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:35 PM

33. I don't need any.

He worked for a private law firm. Private law firms have plaintiffs and defendants. It would be ridiculous to state, without your own evidence to the contrary, that he did "no defense work". Even if he simply did research on the behalf of a defendant, that invalidates your preposterous claim.

BTW, it would behoove you to stop including "criminal" in your argument. It wasn't in the declarative that began this conversation and dramatically diminishes your argument... such as it is.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:45 PM

34. I am talking about criminal law because that is what the OP is about.

Perhaps you should reread it. I am sorry if you think the rules and procedures of "defense work" in non-criminal cases is the same as criminal work. It isn't. This firm did not do criminal law and Mueller has no experience in it. He has solely been a prosecutor in criminal affairs.

But as you say "I don't need any". That says it all...

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Response to former9thward (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:02 PM

35. ...

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:21 PM

3. The sun is setting on the the Orange Kist king

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:41 PM

6. We're running out of time. Please hurry 😐

Thank you.

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Response to Wwcd (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:56 PM

9. No, we're not. We'll HAVE to live on through time with

what bad citizens, left and right, created and sooner or later be able to start rebuilding.

Btw, if Hillary was president and the Senate was controlled by Democrats,

infrastructure projects all over the nation would already be providing many tens of thousands of good jobs with good benefits,

a million new students would be applying to study for affordable college degrees,

the ACA would be even better than it was at its best,

the Medicare eligibility age would be lowered to 55,

eldercare relatives would no longer be ordered out on the streets when their parent dies,

billionaires would not only be paying pre-Reagan private income taxes as per Obama but have their other taxes substantially raised,

the financial industry would be required to honestly serve customers, not exploit,

workers would have the right to family leave and other legal rights restored,

unions would once again be legally easy to form,

the minimum wage would be effectively $15/hour.

and SCOTUS would have a liberal majority.

JUST for a few things that would be different.


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Response to Hortensis (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:47 PM

12. Good post, Hortensis!

If only Mrs. Clinton had won, the things you wrote-- and more-- would be making America great again.

Now, it's going to be much harder work.

Thanks, Trump.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:58 PM

13. Love you for this post tonight. Thanks

The cruel deportation of reasonable people seeking to have a safe & dignified life wouldn't be happening.

Citizens United would be broken in pieces.

I'll never stop believing we can still have that country.


Just want Mueller to be done & put an end to the sadness & fear & the chaos.
Soon please. Today was cruel.

Thanks for the reminder of a great America.
Will hold onto that 🍃

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Response to Wwcd (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:10 AM

22. That country is us also. Of course. Amazingly.

Thanks for mentioning those two. There are so many things we need to be doing, but those are huge.

And poor Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands would be so busy with reconstruction that we'd almost hear the hammering on the mainland.



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:37 PM

16. If Only

All we can do right now is resist until the wind shifts

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 12:17 PM

28. if Clinton had won, they'd still need the House and Senate

to pass anything related to budgetary issues like infrastructure and raising the minimum wage, and McConnell would have kept on filibustering any nominee to replace Scalia because the Democrats likely would not have killed the filibuster for a SCotUS judge.

Republicans would be stamping their feet and holding their breath till they turned blue in trying to get another investigation into Benghazi or the Clinton emails.

That said, I think in the early stages of her presidency, she could have gotten somebody through to the SCotUS.

And, whoever headed the FCC would NOT be on the verge of repealing Net Neutrality.

Business and Environmental regulations would not be being rolled back, and likely would have been tweaked and improved.

I doubt they could get $15 as a minimum wage through, but I'm guessing it would be increased - maybe to $10, with additional increases to $15 over the next 3 years?



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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:52 PM

30. We WOULD have the senate, AND at very least

a large minority in the house, although a tie and majority were both within reach. In any case, they would have had to deal with us to get anything they wanted.

The same winds that accomplished that would have improved our positions in many states as well.

For now, as ME says.

But don't forget -- in an honest election we would have swept into power in 2016. Most Americans wanted that and want it even more now in these scary days.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:44 PM

7. Excellent!

Smart man, Mueller.

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Response to ananda (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:49 PM

8. Mueller

is no chump like trump. This man is quite aware of everything and he must have an excellent team of people helping him.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:56 PM

10. great!

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:07 PM

14. Niiice! n/t

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:13 PM

15. Trump's money and freedom go bye-bye in a NY money laundering case...

...that's my guess, deutsche know?

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:13 PM

32. He'll forfeit his kids' inheritance - they will get exactly what they deserve

...which is nothing!



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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:07 AM

23. Good grief people are trying to hard to make stories where there are none

First, that agreements canít overrule a Presidential Pardon. Itís an agreement with a Federal Prosecutor that is enforced by Federal Law. A Presidential pardon can render is null and void. And local/state prosecutors canít enforce a Federal plea agreement, so they canít take action under it.

Second, that language is standard language put into every plea agreement. Folks are acting like this is a huge groundbreaking move thatís never been seen before and means that Trump is toast on the state level- truth is it just means they put the same wording in there they do in every plea deal.

Folks are trying way to hard to create a sensational news story out smog anything they can, even when itís not there.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 12:36 PM

29. Esteemed Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe would disagree

he's very active on Twitter as well and said that the wording allows anything from Flynn to survive a Trump pardon.

(I'd post a link to the tweet, but twitter is blocked at my work)

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