HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I have been harassed, gro...

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:16 AM

I have been harassed, groped, and raped.

I have dealt with superiors who clearly crossed a line and damn well knew it.

I have dealt with peers who didn't realize what they were saying was inappropriate. The ones I spoke up to immediately apologized and seemed to genuinely learn something from having it pointed out to them.

I have dealt with subordinates who didn't realize what they were saying was inappropriate. Same result as above.

I have dealt with men hitting on me who pushed boundaries to see what they could get away with and clearly enjoyed my discomfort.

I have dealt with men hitting on me who didn't realize they were coming on a bit strong.

I have dealt with street harassment that made me profoundly uncomfortable to the point of fear.

I have dealt with street harassment that made me chuckle.

Governor Clinton groped my ass in 1988 when he helped balance me after I speared his shoe with my stiletto heel and stumbled. He was simply standing in an aisle waiting to go up to the podium, when I turned to walk out of the auditorium to go to the bathroom. I apologized for hurting him, he had yelped in pain after all. He steadied me, patted me on the butt, and said, "there you go young lady." Sum total of the encounter. Inappropriate? Yeah. Was I traumatized? No.

I have had countless men brush up against parts of my body usually reserved for my husband in crowded elevators, subway cars, sports stadiums, etc. 99 times out of 100 it felt inadvertent and sometimes the men clearly blushed and felt uncomfortable themselves. And yes, in group photos too. Same thing. Sometimes it may have been deliberate, most times it was inadvertent.

All of this after I'd been sexually assaulted at the age of 17, so you might think they'd be triggers. But they weren't. I've always been able to give men in these circumstances the benefit of the doubt. But I know I'm unique and similar incidents could indeed be traumatic for other women. Because of my experience, I have panic attacks if someone touches my neck. I once had a panic attack touching my own neck! And I don't know anyone who considers necks on par with genitalia, buttocks, and breasts.

Perhaps this is why I've read the accounts of Franken's alleged sexual improprieties and want to scream, "Are you fucking kidding me, that's it? What is all the damn fuss about?"

You're damn right it's a matter of degrees and that is absolutely relevant. So is due process. So is GOP strategy. If he really has made so many women uncomfortable over the years, then let an investigation reveal that and determine what the appropriate level of response should be.

I'm pissed. I'm furious. If he's a sexual predator, then he should go. If he's a stupid flawed human being, then he should stay. Because glass houses and all that. But the way this came down will never sit well with me.


89 replies, 7216 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 89 replies Author Time Post
Reply I have been harassed, groped, and raped. (Original post)
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 OP
UpInArms Dec 7 #1
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #2
dalton99a Dec 7 #3
Rocky888 Dec 7 #4
Lonestarblue Dec 7 #5
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #10
sinkingfeeling Dec 7 #6
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #8
Honeycombe8 Dec 7 #76
peggysue2 Dec 7 #7
Farmer-Rick Dec 7 #9
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #11
raccoon Dec 7 #23
RobinA Dec 7 #12
greymattermom Dec 7 #13
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #14
Motownman78 Friday #88
delisen Dec 7 #27
NewJeffCT Dec 7 #37
LakeArenal Dec 7 #47
mountain grammy Dec 7 #38
Duppers Dec 7 #15
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #17
Madam Mossfern Dec 7 #16
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #19
YessirAtsaFact Dec 7 #22
TNNurse Dec 7 #18
Stuart G Dec 7 #20
Irish_Dem Dec 7 #21
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #25
Irish_Dem Dec 7 #32
rainin Dec 7 #24
ollie10 Dec 7 #26
The Wizard Dec 7 #28
appal_jack Dec 7 #84
The Wizard Dec 7 #85
appal_jack Dec 7 #86
mainstreetonce Dec 7 #29
crazycatlady Dec 7 #74
Honeycombe8 Dec 7 #30
Mme. Defarge Dec 7 #31
Sunsky Dec 7 #33
CountAllVotes Dec 7 #34
Cassidy Dec 7 #35
hurple Dec 7 #36
mountain grammy Dec 7 #39
Ilsa Dec 7 #40
videohead5 Dec 7 #41
moriah Dec 7 #46
videohead5 Dec 7 #50
moriah Dec 7 #58
moriah Dec 7 #42
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #44
SweetieD Dec 7 #43
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #45
Wounded Bear Dec 7 #48
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #51
58Sunliner Dec 7 #49
CountAllVotes Dec 7 #53
58Sunliner Dec 7 #60
idahoblue Dec 7 #52
LAS14 Dec 7 #54
flamingdem Dec 7 #55
PatSeg Dec 7 #56
niyad Dec 7 #57
Chemisse Dec 7 #59
RandomAccess Dec 7 #61
pansypoo53219 Dec 7 #62
cynical_idealist Dec 7 #63
Doreen Dec 7 #64
MrModerate Dec 7 #65
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #66
Nitram Dec 7 #67
kimbutgar Dec 7 #68
USALiberal Dec 7 #69
Lunabell Dec 7 #70
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #72
Lunabell Dec 7 #73
KrazyinKS Dec 7 #71
Collimator Dec 7 #75
Pacifist Patriot Dec 7 #81
shenmue Dec 7 #77
Puzzledtraveller Dec 7 #78
stuffmatters Dec 7 #79
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 7 #80
zentrum Dec 7 #82
FailureToCommunicate Dec 7 #83
Leighbythesea Friday #87
pbmus Friday #89

Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:32 AM

1. Can I copy your post and share it elsewhere?

Thank you for so succinctly putting it all in words

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to UpInArms (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:40 AM

2. That's fine.

I had more to say, but figured it was a long enough rant. LOL!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:40 AM

3. Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:47 AM

4. Well said!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:48 AM

5. Thank you for sharing this.

Im so sorry that youve endured so much, but I really appreciate your speaking out about it. As a woman who worked in corporate America my whole career, I experienced too many pats, wandering hands, and outright requests for sex. But like you, when confronted with their inappropriate behavior, the men backed down. I worry that we are so overblowing the Franken incident that we will achieve the exact opposite of more opportunity for women without workplace harrassment. Anyone who has worked in business knows that it's quite easy to write job descriptions and manipulate interviews in such a way that only while male applicants are hired. Even good men who would not think of harrassing a woman will have second thoughts about hiring a female if there is an equally qualified male in the picture. And, oddly enough, that might actually help minority men, because we also know that HR departments tally the number of minorities hired, and minority men will be preferred over women in the future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:56 AM

10. That's a very real concern and one I share.

There are some actions that are best remedied with education, while others cross a line that requires more serious action. Our reluctance to distinguish between them is going to have far-reaching consequences in the work force.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:51 AM

6. I wrote something similar yesterday and several DU responders thought

it was awful that I didn't report harassment.
I said if I'd reported every guy who had tried to kiss me during my career with a very large male dominated corporation, it would have been over 100 reports. In the 60s and 70s, it was the way things worked and I wouldn't have had a job.
Things have changed. Sexual harassment was named in the 80s and some people haven't changed their way of thinking about hitting on people. But not all of it is criminal.
If Franken is forced out, I'm done with the Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:54 AM

8. I completely understand. If I reported everything that ever happened to me...

I'd have spent half my career sitting in an HR department. Okay, hyperbole yes, but I bet you know what I mean.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:41 PM

76. A guy trying to kiss me isn't harassment, except in certain situations.

A superior at work, someone I've already said "no" to. But if some guy at some function likes me and gives it a shot...to steal a kiss...that isn't harassment. Men are usually the assertive ones in making a pass. It's better to ask first, but I wouldn't say a guy on an even power stage as I am, trying to steal a kiss is necessarily assault or molestation or harassment. If I say no, and he persists...then it may be considered harassment.

But I've been groped outside of work...a definite groping by an old man. I've been raped. I've had a few close calls, but they let me go, once they realized what they were doing. I have a good grasp on what's over the line, I think.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:54 AM

7. Absolutely agree!

Thank you for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:55 AM

9. My better half sounds just like what you wrote

Wish I had known her when she went through some horrible sexual harassment experiences.

But she says exactly what you wrote. She says Al may be clumsy or sometimes inappropriate but he is no sexual predator like Moore and Trump.

She went so far to say that accusing someone of sexual harassment then demanding that you remain anonymous is cowardly and turns accusations into nothing more than revenge.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:58 AM

11. I agree with her.

I can understand anonymity when beginning a complaint in the work place. But at a certain point and at this level, anonymity has to be shed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:31 AM

23. You said that right. They shouldn't be able to remain anonymous

You said that right. They shouldn't be able to remain anonymous at this level.

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out one day that somebody (wonder who?) Is paying them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:02 AM

12. Thank You!

I am very uncomfortable current turns of event as well. Very.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:04 AM

13. I'm a WASPy female and Franken is Jewish

I married a Jewish man. It took me years to get used to how touchy my husband's family is. Hugging, kissing, and lots of touching happen all the time in his family. In my Presbyterian family, only very close relatives would ever touch each other. This is just an observation, but I haven't seen it in any of the Franken discussions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greymattermom (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:07 AM

14. I would consider that another relevant point.

I used to teach marriage preparation classes. One of the issues I covered was the differences in family of origin. Sometimes the communication styles and natural boundaries can vary substantially. I remember one couple where the bride was Japanese and the groom was Italian. Talk about worlds apart in this respect!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:44 AM

88. Oh I bet!!

One culture is very reserved with an extreme level of etiquette. The other, there is a lot of kissing on the cheek to greet people, hugging, ect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greymattermom (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:42 AM

27. Same here. I've considered raising the point but thought it would be misunderstood.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greymattermom (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:05 AM

37. My ex-wife was Jewish as well

and also one of the most talkative and outgoing people I've ever met (I used to joke that we didn't talk the entire month before we got married - because I didn't want to interrupt her while she was talking...) She also was very liberal about sex and sexual issues - on our first date, she initiated sex with me.

While my immediate family is not religious, we are all of descended from some ethnic group that is primarily Catholic - Italian, Sicilian and Polish - and generally we don't talk about sex in any sort of family gathering. Not that many in my family weren't Democrats, it was just something not spoken about.

So, there were certainly cultural differences there - we had 2 wedding showers for my ex since she lived outside of CT when we met - one for her family and one for my family in Connecticut. As she was talking about the two of us at the Connecticut wedding shower thrown by my family, it came up that we had seen the movie "Saving Private Ryan" the night before. She then said something about having a bad dream and then something like, "I woke up and reached over to make sure that Jeff still had his leg..." - so, basically admitting that we were sleeping together before marriage to a bunch of older Italian and Sicilian women who went to church every Sunday. I heard it was one of those moments where you could have heard a pin drop.

But, I also wonder if there are cultural differences at play here as well because the women from SNL and his Senate office all had great things to say about Al as a boss or a co-worker. It seems strange to me that he would intentionally grope women while their husbands, boyfriends or other family members are in plain view, but never had a problem behind closed doors or in situations where he could easily have taken advantage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:39 AM

47. You point is great.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greymattermom (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:13 AM

38. From my mother's loving Jewish family

I can relate to this and agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:09 AM

15. Brilliant.

I'm truly sorry for your panic attacks.

I've lost count of the many dastardly inappropriate things men have done and said to me. Not reported one thru official channels. I'm a bit like Hillary brushing lint off her shoulder during the congressional hearings. This is not the stuff that's really hurt this old cootess. It's not being believed when I am deeply hurt.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Duppers (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:14 AM

17. Your last sentence resonates deeply. Very true!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:12 AM

16. Amazing

I've had similar experiences to yours - was raped at knifepoint when I was 23 years old.
Funny, I too am triggered when anyone touches my neck. My husband know to be careful about this,
and he knows to be careful if he touches me from behind, my kids too, but they don't know why.

As far as the other stuff - yeah. No big deal, and if some guy is pushing the envelope, I let him know immediately
and usually get an apology. Franken is being railroaded and this makes me furious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:19 AM

19. Didn't even mention that, but yes...

best not come up on me from behind unawares. My boys are older now and know why, but they too knew from a young age to never sneak up on mommy. The difference between what we know of Franken and what we know of others certainly presents as railroading.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:29 AM

22. Yes, yes, yes

!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:19 AM

18. Thank you for your discussion.

I was once patted on the butt by Bill Monroe (the father of bluegrass music). I was not traumatized.

Early in my career as a nurse a doctor tried to play with my knee while charting at a desk. He and the people surrounding the area knew of my objection and threat if it ever recurred. Again, I was not traumatized.

There are levels and degrees of such behavior. Some are annoying or irritating but do little harm. Some are of course horrific and perhaps life changing (pregnancy after rape and repeated abuse by a family member).

I am pretty sure that if someone who had violent and traumatic assaults can release their name, these people who say they were touched or brushed or "groped" should be able to go public.

I am completely suspicious of the Franken allegations. Why do we not know their names?????????????????

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:21 AM

20. Thank You for your post...k and r ..no text

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:26 AM

21. Whether he is guilty or innocent, it has been handled badly. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:36 AM

25. Exactly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:50 AM

32. Our Dem leaders have some explaining to do.

We should be informed what they are doing and why.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:35 AM

24. Thank you.

Democrats are being played. This is a witch hunt. We are framing this absolutely wrong and R's are laughing at us. They've found our weakness. They will never stop exploiting our weaknesses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:39 AM

26. Kudos for great post!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:43 AM

28. Franken is a smart fearless legislator

who makes Republicans cower in fear. Of course they want him gone. It started with a political hack from Pox News and a suggestive photo signifying horseplay. Roger Stone engineered a coordinated and orchestrated assault on Franken so as to weaken him, and by extension, the Democratic Party.
Unfortunately Democrats curl up in the corner the minute any controversy comes up, fearing the Republican media smear machine will say mean things about them. Democrats always want to get out in front of the situation and in so doing sacrifice their best and brightest without a fair hearing, without challenging allegations made by a Nihilist hostile adversary.
Shirley Sherrod and Van Jones come to mind as victims of the Republican jihad against normal people, both wrongfully discharged under a cloud of doubt created by vile cretins dedicated to bring back the bad old days of a two tiered system of lords and serfs.
Wake up Democrats, Republicans will accuse you of killing jobs in health care if you come up with a cancer cure. With a soulless demagogue at the helm, and a propaganda operation the would make Goebbels blush, the Republicans must be confronted at all turns lest we lose our souls along with them.
We're better than this. If we are to survive as a viable alternative to tyranny we must stand for something. Cowering in the corner is no defense against a toxic, well coordinated death cult bent on bringing back the bad times we thought were behind us.
So now they got Al Franken to quit, and Republicans stand almost unanimously with an alleged child molester and a self professed pussy grabber.
We are an ignorant culture that prefers wrong and strong over weak and right. Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Wizard (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:09 PM

84. Excellent points! Jocelyn Elders too... nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to appal_jack (Reply #84)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:22 PM

85. All minorities

Including Al Franken who is Jewish. So which Party is more closely aligned with the Klan?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Wizard (Reply #85)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:43 PM

86. :-(

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:44 AM

29. There is not one accusation

of Franken actually having forced sexual contact.

Not one.

If we set that bar at casual touching ,let every woman who has been in an elevator or a photo op with an R candidate start publicly screaming.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mainstreetonce (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:03 PM

74. casual touching isn't casual to everyone

I used to have a friend who would post racist stuff on my FB page and claim it was a causal joke. Except for it was not. Casual is in the eye of the beholder. I've witnessed people saying offensive things to people and they claimed it was casual. It is only casual ANYTHING if there's a mutual agreement.

AS far as touching--- in the workplace it should be nothing beyond a handshake.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:47 AM

30. I am in TOTAL agreement with you, Pacifist! Total. This does not go down well with me. Nope.nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:49 AM

31. K&R!

Let us not trivialize abuse and infantilize women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:56 AM

33. I won't share my story in detail

But I'm right there with you. I have been dealing with sexual assault since childhood. I am still dealing with the negative effects to this day. I too have been groped by men and women and lead to believe that something I did, wore or my physical features were at fault. This is a huge factor in my social anxiety.
However, I too believe the degree of the act is very important. I have met people who are very inappropriate, the "touchy feely" people. Yes they make me very uncomfortable, yes I've had to get rough with a few, yes I had to draw the line or cut off certain friendships due to the level of discomfort BUT I would never think these people should be fired because of these acts, disciplined yes and given sexual harassment training. I could never compare those people to the man who took advantage of me when I was a child. I am so freaking mad to hear people doing this, especially those who have never been there!
I have been in tears almost daily since these women broke their silence because it is forcing me to deal with my own painful history. It also infuriates me to see the false equivalency. The comparison of Franken to Moore is ludicrous.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:57 AM

34. You just told my story!

It never stops IMO.

The other night I was out and a man I do not know approached me and wanted me to have dinner w/him. I told him NO. He pressed me further and said, "Awww, come on. Not even a hamburger?". I said NO, I am NOT hungry.

He then pressed me further again and wanted to know if I wanted something to drink and I said NO. He wanted to know why. I told him I was not thirsty, that is why.

He asked me again why not, why not. I told him to leave me alone!

I'd hope that incidents such as these would be history at my age but my gawd, does it ever stop? I couldn't be that great looking for a woman in her 60s that is married and wears a wedding ring.

Was this horrific harassment? No not horrific, just annoying as all hell. Did he assault me? No he did not he was trying to pick me up.

I wish he'd taken a clue after the first NO but he persisted, that was the annoying part which worried me. I then become scared worrying that maybe he is following me and has other ideas for me.

You just don't know in this world today and I too have been raped, etc. in my younger years. What I see happening today is something that should have happened years ago when ALL women were considered nothing much more that sex objects and the role women have is to breed breed breed and bear children that they may or may not want!

I was raised being told I'd never be anything in life and to get used to being groped and pawed at by men. I never accepted this idea and never opted to bear children I did not want!

Because I am a female, I was always a "less than" throughout life. On family outings, I'd be given $.50 to spend at an amusement park whereas my brother (worth far more than I) would be given $1.00 because he was a boy.

Needless to say I have little respect for men that harass and grope woman that do not seem to know what the word NO means! I may be worth only $.50 to some in this world but some day I may become worth a full $1.00 I can only hope!

I appreciate your post! Thank you so much!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:02 AM

35. Franken's accusers don't seem plausible to me.

I have also been assaulted and harassed. I just left a message to my fool of a senator (D), telling him he is wrong to tell Franken to resign. Franken deserves to tell his side and I just don't believe this whisper campaign against him.
When will Democratic officials learn that they shouldn't just fold and attack each other!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:04 AM

36. This is exactly how I feel about all this too...

"I've read the accounts of Franken's alleged sexual improprieties and want to scream, 'Are you fucking kidding me, that's it? What is all the damn fuss about?'
...
I'm pissed. I'm furious. If he's a sexual predator, then he should go. If he's a stupid flawed human being, then he should stay. Because glass houses and all that. But the way this came down will never sit well with me."

Perfect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:15 AM

39. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

and one more time, thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:21 AM

40. This applies to me as well. There are definitely

degrees of offense. Our legal for punishment is based, in some degree, on this. We treat child molestors more harshly than someone who gropes on the subway. We incarcerate rapists but settle with harassers at work.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:24 AM

41. I got accused

Of slut shaming on dailykos because I was just pointing out how outrageous they were all acting on that USO tour. Leeann Tweeden was getting her butt grabbed onstage and grabbing the guitar players butt.on another one of the tours she put one of her leg around Robin Williams and Al Franken put his hands in front of her breast and she claims he was groping her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to videohead5 (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:33 AM

46. And a non-virgin who'se unconscious wasn't actually raped, right?

Yes, that is slut-shaming.

It doesn't matter a good goddamn whatever she did onstage with consent. A stripper doesn't give up her right to not have clothes ripped off her without her consent just because she does it with consent on stage. Raping a prostitute is not just theft of services simply because they've consensually sold sex.

There's 99 ways to deal with these accusations, but attacking Tweeden for putting on a raunchy show for troops that haven't seen family in months ain't one. No way in hell do we come out looking good going that direction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to moriah (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:50 AM

50. But he was not

Groping her.his hands never touched her.I don't think she is a slut.this is pathetic!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to videohead5 (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:06 AM

58. Of course we know she was exaggerating greatly by the word "grope".

And she dialed down the language fast.

I'm just saying, attack those angles. How fast she dialed back her rhetoric in the Jake Tapped interview, etc.

Not the fact she was willing to be eyecandy for troops. That just makes us look bad, in more ways than seemingly slut-shaming (remember, "the troops" are rightly a sacred cow in our culture)....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:26 AM

42. You're from Arkansas? Howdy, neighbor!

Though if you were around in '88-'94, you know about the infamous Bill McCuen.

My sister was offered a job because she happened to be present at White Water Tavern (for non-Arkies, we have a lot of rivers here and floating the Buffalo is just one way people might think of "white water" in rapids, no relation to scandal with the same name) when Bill was much-taken with her friend. So much taken that apparently she got a trip in a helicopter on state dollars to get properly impressed by his power.

Now, yeah, using state dollars for consensual things is probably partially why he landed himself in jail.

But my sister, who'd been waiting tables but had a great eye for numbers, was totally thrilled about the job offer. She figured there was nothing wrong with taking it if there was an opening and she'd actually be working. After a week of throwing herself at the job, though...other employees apparently explained that there were many people like her officially on payroll... and not showing up.

He was buying silence far beyond just offering entry-level state jobs to people who he thought would appreciate the opportunity enough to keep their mouths shut.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to moriah (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:32 AM

44. Sadly I have never stepped foot in the state.

Clinton was in Virginia delivering a speech at my university.

I've not heard of Bill McCuen, but certainly heard of other politicians who acted similarly in the late 80s. The more things change the more they seem to stay the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:31 AM

43. I agree with you. The one woman said she was in fear because he touched her waist for a photo.

Like what? Every story I've read sounds either bogus or an extreme overreaction. Some folks are touchy feely men and women. I'm sure I have been touched during a group photo on my waist but it is never memorable.

I hate that franken is thrown in a category of extreme perverts, and serial sexual assaulters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SweetieD (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:33 AM

45. The waist "grope" sent me over the edge.

Wanted to jump through my computer monitor and shake some sense into the woman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:40 AM

48. It is testimony like yours that makes me positively hate the concept of "zero tolerance."

All it ever seems to do is punish minor offenses maximally while maximum offenses get minimized.

As you point out, minor incedences can be teaching moments. Turning all minor occurances into capitol punishment doesn't teach anybody anything other than to deny, deny, deny.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:53 AM

51. I have delivered several sermons that demonized the evils of "zero tolerance."

You pointed out the fatal flaw. "punish minor offenses maximally while maximum offeses get minimized"

It's killed off common sense and critical thinking skills.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:50 AM

49. My history exactly. These people forcing Franken out are not helping anyone.

Call!!!!! Schumer's phone is busy, but I also called my senators to apply pressure. Call Franken's office and leave a message of support! This is dangerous on so many levels.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 58Sunliner (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:56 AM

53. They are playing a dangerous game

If they had any REAL guts they'd go after Dump, the groper in chief but they are too spineless to do that aren't they?

Instead they go after Franken, aka their sacrificial lamb! !!





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:40 AM

60. I hear you! WTF??????????????

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:56 AM

52. Well said

I just posted something similar but your story is much better.

Using the standard being set by the Democratic leadership, there will be no qualified candidates unless they have spent their entire life in some place with no interaction with any other people. If we are going to throw our best under the bus, we will have no strong candidates. Who wants to put their life through this without backup?

Maybe we are the party of snowflakes and whiners. We certainly dont have backbone or balls.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:57 AM

54. Yay!!!! Wish I could click the recommend button over and over!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:02 AM

55. Thank you. I have gone through plenty of unwanted touching, it was never worth fussing for long

Price and sometimes pleasure of being female.

I'm so disgusted by the group calling for Franken's scalp because as Stabenow just said oh it's just too much.

Incredibly GULLIBLE and CARELESS

These short term thinker are thinking only of themselves. They find it distasteful yet they cannot take the
time to sift through the lies and recognize that it's a hit job.

Even when they're told by someone well known like Tom Arnold that it originated with Roger Stone:

"Im disappointed with my friend Leeann Tweedon [sic]," he said. "Her partner at KABC John Phillips is a Roger Stone pal & they coached her for weeks to bring Al Franken down. Id hoped shed use her voice to speak out for all women again predators like Roy Moore & Donald Trump but shes a birther."

John Phillips is a CNN political commentator and right-leaning radio talk show host at the same station, KABC, as Tweeden.

Phillips denied that he was involved with Tweeden's decision to come out public with her accusations in November.

"Hey Arnie, first of all your friends name is spelled 'Leeann Tweeden,'" he replied to Arnold. "Second, we never talked about it before she went public. Third, I think ur a great comic and were fantastic on #Roseanne, but @therealroseanne was the genius on that show."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:04 AM

56. Very well said

Thank you so much!

At the rate we are going, pretty much everyone will be categorized as a sexual predator. Meanwhile, we will all be afraid to come in contact with anyone for any reason.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:05 AM

57. k and r and spot on!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:36 AM

59. I totally agree. I too have experienced the full gamut, from overly grabby to rape.

There is are many many degrees of 'misbehavior' and I am furious that they are all being treated the same.

A man who cops a feel is obnoxious and disrespectful. It could very well ruin my day - not because I am a helpless victim, but because the violation makes me so angry. Should he be in jail? Should he be ousted from his career? Not in my opinion. He should be exposed to lots of social pressure to change his ways. After all, the goal is to stop the behavior society-wide, not fill up jails or jack up the unemployment rate.

A man who rapes someone has very often ruined some part of his victim's life. He should be behind bars - period.

Then there are lots of increments in between.

Part of my problem with this recent homogeneous attitude toward sexually deviant behaviors is that when you treat them all the same, women are always victims. There is no woman who has never been on the receiving end of an ass grab or a cat call, and most have experienced worse. Women are tough and adaptive. As adults, we learn how to cope with these relatively minor incidents. I am not saying we should be complacent about them, but neither should we be sobbing and calling for jail time over a cupped breast.

To lump all acts together is to dilute the true horror of rape and the horrific plight of the rape victim. Some are suggesting that it may translate into a step backwards for women's rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:33 PM

61. Thank you -- well said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:41 PM

62. perspective is not seen by the majority. he grabbed no pussy or a PEEPING DONALD.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:43 PM

63. Thankyou

dems are getting played again

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:05 PM

64. You speak how I feel.

I was sexually abused throughout my life by many men ( including my father for years ) but I Still know all are not bad.

I am lucky that I do not suffer from panic attacks or have issues being touched. Well, the only area I dislike being touched are my ears but that is because I had so many ear infections while a child and having the damn doctor stick that damn thing in my ear and asking if that hurt.

I realize that there may be truth in this case with Franken and others ( including both Democrats and Republicans ) and there are also wrong accusations ( also on both sides. )

There are those who do it not realizing they are doing it, those who do it on purpose, those who will stop when asked despite it was intended or not, and those who will not stop who do it unintended or not.

You just need to use common sense and realize the difference and be able to know which type is a big problem and could put you or other women and men in danger and need to actually be reported.

Humans get caught up in the moment sometimes and do not think and that also needs to be taken into consideration.

Thank you for bringing this up because I have been scared to state it myself because I actually sometimes feel I am the only one who feels this way.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:21 PM

65. Too bad the Democratic caucus doesn't have a tenth of your good sense. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrModerate (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:29 PM

66. I've thought about running for office over the years.

Will never ever happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:32 PM

67. Well said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:28 PM

68. Ditto

I have experienced the same thing. The accusations against Franken are mild compared to what I experienced and I am really angry the Democrats did not support Franken. Who is a real public servant and cares about the people.

Im now truly afraid these are end times for us in this country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 04:20 PM

69. This IS THE BEST post on this topic yet!!! THANK YOU!!! n.t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 04:31 PM

70. No excuses just because there's a "D" after their name.

We ARE better than the GOP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Reply #70)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 05:42 PM

72. If you are accusing me of making excuses based on party...

You owe me an apology.

If not, I have no idea what you are implying. Please explain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 05:52 PM

73. I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

Just stating an opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 04:55 PM

71. Very well said

There are degrees of harassment, some people do not realize they went too far and some people do. There are all sorts of people out there in the world and they can not all be put into one bucket.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:23 PM

75. Brava! Madame Patriot!

Fervently stated--personal without being self-indulgent. You need to write speeches for the politicos who have forgotten what really matters to us.

I admire your strength and resiliency in the face of trauma. When women like Tweeden use words like "violated", I feel as if there are minimalizing experiences like yours.

It angers me when behavior like Franken's is likened to "sexual impropriety" or particularly "harassment". His behavior barely enters into the realm of "sexual". His actions are social improprieties more than anything else. They took place in populated settings and he did not threaten anyone's livelyhood or reputation. He wasn't attempting to make anyone feel demeaned or uncomfortable.

This is not to suggest that any person's claim to such feelings in those circumstances is not valid. But nothing happened that could not be settled with clear communication and a sincere attempt at empathy.

Any one of Franken's accusers could have championed the rights and position of women by approaching the situation and speaking their piece with dignity, then following their statements with a challenge to Franken. How do you respond, Senator? Can you listen with respect and show a desire to learn? That is how democracy and civilized social convention work.

However, that is not how political hit jobs work.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Collimator (Reply #75)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:13 PM

81. Bingo!

I think you said it better than I.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:49 PM

77. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:50 PM

78. Frankens transgressions were indeed petty

the tack by our own side to nudge him clearly is agenda driven and I think it's aimed at the left wing, the vocal part, the ones calling for Trump to be impeached, held accountable and all who enabled and covered for him because don't believe for a minute all our Dem leadership thinks the same way, they may pay lip service to it but they found a way to make out in the Trump tyranny and may just prefer the status quo. Just my sense of things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:47 PM

79. I identify with you completely; the Franken railroading is not just insulting, it's retraumatizing

to every woman who has ever experienced the reality of sexual assault and harassment.

It's like our lifelong trauma is being weaponized by ambitious Democrats to establish their own moral/political superiority and by the Republicans to legitimize their own predator President,pedophile Alabama Senator, and obscene in word and action SCOTUS Justice.

The incidents Al Franken is accused of are not sexual harassment or assault. They just are not. This is really painful to go through not only because Franken was denied due process but because our own very real traumas have been exploited, degraded by these
professional politicians to establish their own opportunistic moral "purity."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:08 PM

80. His accusers are all questionable. The first one crosses into perjury territory

Everything about her makes her claim highly suspicious.

Democrats falling all over themselves to what? be PC? Finally believing women, after all these centuries? Trying to make up for it now by allowing the most flimsy of cases xxx strike that, its not even a case yet, just anonymous complaints xxx to destroy the wrong man?


GTFO

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:16 PM

82. I stand with Franken

..and all the women cast members at SNL who stand with him.

Mad as hell at the Democrats.

Thanks for the op.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:06 PM

83. Powerful perspective! A matter of degrees is absolutely relevant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:29 AM

87. I hear you

The one who said "he touched by butt". So many years of deliberate or accidental touching of my behind in crowded public places. Does it give one pause? Sure. If it could be called out I did. But traumatized was not the emotion I felt.
Degree IS the critical distinction. Everyone is different. But for me trauma got reserved for being drugged in a glass of wine, at a concert, and dragged back to the offenders house. I made it out. All transgressions are not equal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:54 AM

89. Thank you for your candidness in your OP...

And to everyone who answered.....

The issue has become ZERO TOLERANCE....whether that is beneficial is the question.?

Humanity has other zero tolerance issues....some work others not so much...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread