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BigmanPigman

(51,432 posts)
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:00 PM Nov 2017

Question: How long do you think it will take for the US to recover

once this false presidency is eventually terminated? Keith Olbermann suggested it will most likely take 30 years during his final The Resistance episode. That seems like a fair estimate to me. I am a realist...so be honest.

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Question: How long do you think it will take for the US to recover (Original Post) BigmanPigman Nov 2017 OP
Decades, for sure. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #1
Agree. nt Atticus Nov 2017 #4
Not until all the judges he put in place die off. mrs_p Nov 2017 #2
It is odd that you mention our original sin. shanny Nov 2017 #16
Sigh. Yes, you are right. mrs_p Nov 2017 #17
I hear you. shanny Nov 2017 #18
I won't be around long enough to see it completely recover, I know that NRaleighLiberal Nov 2017 #3
It is my humble opinion that this is normal BootinUp Nov 2017 #5
We won't. shanny Nov 2017 #6
I can agree with that.. defacto7 Nov 2017 #9
I believe you are correct in your assessment. old guy Nov 2017 #11
The only good thing about trump is the now-so-obvious rot in the system. shanny Nov 2017 #13
40 yrs. CK_John Nov 2017 #7
It won't, the USA is done as the major world power it was for 70 years post-WWII Spider Jerusalem Nov 2017 #8
I doubt the United States will exist in 10 years. roamer65 Nov 2017 #10
It's setting us up for an FDR 100 Days UTUSN Nov 2017 #12
The optimist in me agrees with this. GoCubsGo Nov 2017 #24
This country will never really recover. PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 2017 #14
You're saying that within the next three years, the United States will be a 3rd world country? bearsfootball516 Nov 2017 #22
Not quite that quickly. PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 2017 #23
the American experiment is over, its Asias turn bronxiteforever Nov 2017 #15
It probably won't since they put in term limits... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #19
With an uneducated poulation.... Dave Starsky Nov 2017 #36
Not In My Lifetime..... Laxman Nov 2017 #20
Because of the courts, it will be decades. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #21
Longer than I'll be alive at this point MiniMe Nov 2017 #25
30 years at least. Tax bill will be law, the damage will include the end of ALL social Eliot Rosewater Nov 2017 #26
It depends if we get a bounce when we hit rock bottom. NightWatcher Nov 2017 #27
If they succeed, there won't be a USA and they will own all the public land, oil, etc. L. Coyote Nov 2017 #28
I don't think there will be a complete recovery. America has dropped in status permanently. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #29
Who says the United States will survive the next three years? sarcasmo Nov 2017 #30
Given our cyclical nature, we have never been in a "fully functional" state. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #31
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2017 #32
Not in my lifetime. Thirties Child Nov 2017 #33
2 generations, at least... SeattleVet Nov 2017 #34
Will it recover before global warming kills us all? I'd call it a toss up. nt Binkie The Clown Nov 2017 #35
A sad thread win. -nt CrispyQ Nov 2017 #41
Maybe the human species simply doesn't have what it takes to survive for the long haul. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #42
They may have options, but no human can survive very long without nature's support systems. nt Binkie The Clown Nov 2017 #43
They have options I believe. That do not involve Earth's atmosphere. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #44
And, being Republicans, they might be ignorant enough to believe those plans could work. nt Binkie The Clown Nov 2017 #45
Good point. Money has always bought them everything they want. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #46
We never will. alarimer Nov 2017 #37
The People's United States of Amerika will be just fine, comrade. Orrex Nov 2017 #38
15 years, I see a blue wave coming in the next decade Cicada Nov 2017 #39
We're not coming back from this. CrispyQ Nov 2017 #40

mrs_p

(3,012 posts)
2. Not until all the judges he put in place die off.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:05 PM
Nov 2017

Thirty years sounds about right.

But then we will probably have another demagogue take over again.

The US is a goner in my book. We will never get over our original sin. I didn’t know there were still so many racists. I will never trust my fellow Americans again.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
16. It is odd that you mention our original sin.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:59 PM
Nov 2017

I thought that for years, that slavery / racism was exactly that, and would doom us in the end.

But now I would put our original sin even further back: this country (originally the colonies) was all about profit-taking, right from the beginning. "Discovering" a place that was already inhabited, stealing the land, exploiting people of color to build wealth...it all grew from there, despite our national myth about pilgrims and religious freedom. The rise of mercantilism / capitalism coincided with the opportunity to plunder the garden of Eden, and all our success stemmed from that. Now that system is spectacularly failing as it bumps up against the limited resources of a finite and overpopulated planet.

Big BIG change is headed our way, and something's gonna give. Actually, it has already begun.

mrs_p

(3,012 posts)
17. Sigh. Yes, you are right.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 12:13 AM
Nov 2017

In the end it is and always has been about money/resources.

I would welcome a revolution. But I have no hope that anything will ever change.

I hate to be so gloomy. Been this way for a little over a year.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
18. I hear you.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 12:24 AM
Nov 2017

I have found myself detaching emotionally from the outcome of all this. Certainly nothing I have done in my life has turned the tide, only slowed it for a little while. It feels like we've been falling off a cliff in slow motion, and now the result is inevitable. Maybe something good can come from the crash.

BootinUp

(46,928 posts)
5. It is my humble opinion that this is normal
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:06 PM
Nov 2017

politics when u don’t have an enemy like the USSR to unite the country.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
6. We won't.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:07 PM
Nov 2017

It is not as if it is just trump. The downhill slide has been going on for 40ish years. We won't get back to that world, we need to build a new one....one without predatory capitalism and out-of-control militarism at the helm.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
9. I can agree with that..
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:28 PM
Nov 2017

The rot is deeper than anything we have imagined so far. I could say that somewhere along the way a certain rebound could happen. But unless there is fundamental change in our government which can only come from fundamental change in human nature the rot will remain and it will all recycle again in another form.

old guy

(3,281 posts)
11. I believe you are correct in your assessment.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:29 PM
Nov 2017

At first I thought it would be unfortunate not to be able to get it back, but on further review I feel we will be better off if we don't even try. I am 74 so any long term results I will not see but it will be interesting to see if we really want to try.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
13. The only good thing about trump is the now-so-obvious rot in the system.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:36 PM
Nov 2017

Maybe the revulsion he and his minions inspire will lead to sweeping change...to be frank, it is my only hope.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
8. It won't, the USA is done as the major world power it was for 70 years post-WWII
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:18 PM
Nov 2017

because a country that elects a Trump once can do it again. A country that unilaterally abrogates international agreements can do it again. The USA can no longer be trusted with international leadership, and it won't be. America's traditional allies will no longer see her as a reliable partner.

GoCubsGo

(32,061 posts)
24. The optimist in me agrees with this.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 10:09 AM
Nov 2017

But, the country hadn't turned into the "Idiocracy" back then. It is just about there now. I don't know if we still have it in us to do that again. The only bright spot is that the vast majority of the country is appalled by what has been going on. The people who support it are a minority. The only question I have is whether or not the majority have it in us to actually do something about it.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,750 posts)
14. This country will never really recover.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:37 PM
Nov 2017

We're going to be a second world country (is that even a thing?), possibly even a third world country by the time the Trump administration plays out.

They're rolling back every single thing that brought this country into prosperity after WWII, and cleaned up the environment, improved nearly everyone's standard of living, and in general made life decent in this country for a long time. And it's not that new. It started back with Ronald Reagan. He started the insistent, ongoing demonization of government, and those who most uncritically and fully believed him then started running for office, solidifying and perpetuating what he started.

If we're lucky, thirty years from now we will finally have clawed our way back to a place we were economically and socially in about 1940.

I'm 69 years old and in excellent health. I will probably live another 25 or more years. I have one adult son, who seems very unlikely to have children. For a long time I regretted that I'd never have grandchildren, but now I'm glad. I feel a bit sorry for my age mates who do have grandchildren, especially very young ones. Don't get me wrong, I understand quite well how happy and proud people are of their grandkids, but that younger generation is going to face an incredibly bleak future.

I'm also in decent financial shape, better than many. For me, social security is a third of my income, which is as it was intended. But if it got cut significantly, I'd be hurting. I'd probably have a serious talk with my sister about moving in with her.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,750 posts)
23. Not quite that quickly.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 10:01 AM
Nov 2017

But we are already on our way. The gap between the rich and the poor in this country would already make a third world country proud.

For a while remnants of our infrastructure: schools, roads, police and fire departments, municipal pension plans, and the like will hang on. Some will remain in place for a few more decades. But the systematic dismantling of everything is already well under way and will only continue.

If the provision in the House version of the tax plan that would tax tuition waivers as actual income will completely gut graduate programs, and pretty soon foreign students and scholars will simply stop coming to this country. I understand quite clearly that foreign students invariably pay full freight at our colleges and universities, but Americans will no longer be able to afford grad school. Their relatively meager stipends are barely enough to survive on; they won't be able to pay income tax on $50,000 a year that they don't actually get.

In addition, the growth of military spending will eventually overtake almost all of the budget. As all other social spending dwindles, people will live in more and more misery and despair.

So while I won't put a timeline to it, we will eventually devolve into being a third world country. We are already there in regards to health care.

bronxiteforever

(9,287 posts)
15. the American experiment is over, its Asias turn
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:43 PM
Nov 2017

Wait until the next economic crisis. We will be unable to sort of recover like in 2008.
There are no tricks left.
At best in 40 years we stabilize to be like the UK.

Wounded Bear

(58,440 posts)
19. It probably won't since they put in term limits...
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 12:26 AM
Nov 2017

It took FDR 4 terms and WWII to get out of the Great Depression. That can't happen again, or at least the 4 terms part of it.

We probably need term limits in Congress, repeal of Citizens United and about 4 decades of sanity. What are the odds of that happening?

We're well on the way to being the world's largest 3rd world country. Either that or just flat out breaking up.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
36. With an uneducated poulation....
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:29 PM
Nov 2017

that is steeped 24/7 in propaganda, we will never recover.

After net neutrality goes away and all media is consolidated under one megacorporate umbrella, the level of constant horseshit will escalate into the stratosphere.

Inside of 20 years, we're going to make North Korea's culture look like the Italian Renaissance.

Laxman

(2,419 posts)
20. Not In My Lifetime.....
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 12:31 AM
Nov 2017

and honestly, our time at the top of the heap may be over. Empires historically last between 200 and 300 years. We're closer to the end than the beginning and insane corrupt leaders like Trump are usually one of the signs of decline.

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
21. Because of the courts, it will be decades.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 12:31 AM
Nov 2017

We warned in 16 those who were obsessed with emails...and falling for the GOP BS...that the only choice was to elect the Democratic nominee...but it didn't work out that way. And many when they cast their vote for Stein or Trump...maybe stayed home, ruined their lives. There will be no Green energy in this country, there will be no fairness in the tax code, no decent healthcare, college tuition help and the courts will stop any progress should we manage to win with gerrymandered and national suppress the vote GOP machinations...it is going to be a shit show. We have to try...but it won't be easy...many of us won't live to see this particular victory.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
26. 30 years at least. Tax bill will be law, the damage will include the end of ALL social
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 02:54 PM
Nov 2017

services including SS and medicare


so angry right now i cant even...not even

stupid fucking trump voters, you are so fucking STUPID

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
27. It depends if we get a bounce when we hit rock bottom.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 02:57 PM
Nov 2017

If we hit hard, it won't take as long, but if we slowly slump down, it will take a while to reverse course and rebound.

Irish_Dem

(45,657 posts)
29. I don't think there will be a complete recovery. America has dropped in status permanently.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:14 PM
Nov 2017

It is not just Trump, but Bush Jr and his war, and our insane GOP congress.
Lack of health care and education for our citizens, a voting system that is not secure.
An armed and dangerous racist country.

We have lost a lot of respect around the world.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
31. Given our cyclical nature, we have never been in a "fully functional" state.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:17 PM
Nov 2017

So recovery is always relative.

With Obama's help, we went from the Bush Jr kakistocracy to an economically and socially far better place in 8 years. I think we can do it again.

Response to BigmanPigman (Original post)

SeattleVet

(5,468 posts)
34. 2 generations, at least...
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:27 PM
Nov 2017

with all of the very young, ultra conservative judges he is packing the courts with. They will be on the bench for life, upholding everything he put into place.

Irish_Dem

(45,657 posts)
42. Maybe the human species simply doesn't have what it takes to survive for the long haul.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 07:41 PM
Nov 2017

Too ignorant, greedy and corrupt.

But I keep insisting the elite don't care about global warming.
They must have an escape plan at the ready.
With hundreds of billions of dollars at their disposal they have options.

Irish_Dem

(45,657 posts)
44. They have options I believe. That do not involve Earth's atmosphere.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 08:29 PM
Nov 2017

They must have some plans.
They are smart enough to know climate change is real.
And perhaps the reason they are obsessed with accumulating vast wealth.
More than they could normally spend.

Irish_Dem

(45,657 posts)
46. Good point. Money has always bought them everything they want.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 08:36 PM
Nov 2017

They may assume the same with their escape plans.
Or they may be right and they can avoid the realities of climate change.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
37. We never will.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:30 PM
Nov 2017

The Democrats will not have the guts to raise taxes again after this fiasco goes through, even if they manage to kick all the Republicans out.

Besides there are all those Trump troglodytes still out there. As long as they exist, we are toast.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
38. The People's United States of Amerika will be just fine, comrade.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:34 PM
Nov 2017

Borscht and vodka will be rationed for a few decades, but other than that it'll be great.

CrispyQ

(36,234 posts)
40. We're not coming back from this.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 04:17 PM
Nov 2017

The only way is if Mueller can pull off a miracle & take down the entire upper echelon of GOP leadership - tarnish the brand so fucking badly, even the MSM can't sugar coat it & say both sides do it. If they get the Con & some of his Cabinet/advisors, but leave Pence/McConnell/Ryan in place, we'll just be safer in terms of nukes, not anything else. I guess that's something, though.

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