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Wed Nov 29, 2017, 10:46 AM

 

I really want to know how much more sanctions can we impose on NK without it resulting in

straight up genocide of entire people? Who are we really hurting with these sanctions?

There was a period of no missile launchings right after the last round of sanctions. Did we miss the opportunity to diplomatically resolve some of these issues?

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Reply I really want to know how much more sanctions can we impose on NK without it resulting in (Original post)
sadiegirl Nov 2017 OP
MichMary Nov 2017 #1
Moostache Nov 2017 #2
zipplewrath Nov 2017 #3
Moostache Nov 2017 #5
snooper2 Nov 2017 #6
moriah Nov 2017 #4
bluestarone Nov 2017 #7
Proud Liberal Dem Nov 2017 #8

Response to sadiegirl (Original post)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 10:50 AM

1. It would be bad

A nuclear attack on the US would be worse. Not even 50/50. JMHO.

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Response to sadiegirl (Original post)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 10:56 AM

2. What the hell is SOUTH Korea doing about this?

I do not for one second support ANYTHING Trump does or says, but the major concern for me is why the fuck is SOUTH Korea not more actively engaged in this? IF Trump launches a nuclear attack on the North, the fallout and radiation will not be confined to a distant, safe place and stay there...it will blanket Seoul and all of South Korea in a poisonous cloud.

Same for Japan and China..although I doubt the Chinese give a shit about losing a few million people, they probably see it as cost-benefit...

Seriously, this situation is so far above the intellectual capability of the current administration that people should be terrified of what we are blindly flailing our way into...a madman, with the temperament and understanding of a child, surrounded by incompetent boobs, yes-men and hacks, in charge of the future of the world? How the holy fuck did we end up here???

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Response to Moostache (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:25 AM

3. "Doing about this"

The problem here is that there aren't alot of choices about what to "do" about this. My fear about all of this is that there is a "belief" inside the White House that there is something militarily that can be done about this. It isn't really clear that there is. Especially if there is concern about people in the larger area. The reason we have to work so closely with those in the region is that it is their skin in this game, not ours.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 01:38 PM

5. I believe I left way too much ambiguity in my original rantings...

I mean what are those countries doing to or with the United States and not NORTH Korea...

They cannot at all be "OK" with Trump's brinksmanship and bombast when the countries more geographically located are to bear the brunt of any actions...there are no good options in dealing with the North directly, I agree on that point completely....but our allies (like South Korea and Japan) and even our "frenemies" (Russia and China) have got to be doing something behind the scenes, right?

The world cannot possibly be so devoid of leadership that EVERYONE is deferring to Cheetolini, please?!?!?!

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Response to Moostache (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 01:40 PM

6. The only thing China is worried about are waves of refugees crossing the border

 

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Response to sadiegirl (Original post)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 11:26 AM

4. Pardon the jump to an extreme example, but you said genocide...

.... Had Europe's Jewish population voluntarily went to camps where food was scarce, their leaders had set up their own structure where they were oppressing their own people and were sending missiles over Britain, and we knew food aid we sent would be used for the oppressive elite and not the starving innocent people ....

We wouldn't be calling the people who died of starvation (vs gassing) in the camps victims of the Holocaust too, or feel we were responsible for those deaths because we didn't airdrop food into the camps.

Which, aside from the fact that foreign powers arbitrarily drew the line defining NK, is essentially the situation.

We already know what the Kim dynasty does -- they give the first from any aid to the administrative elite, then the military, and people still starve because the food doesn't get to the right people. Even their military has nutritional problems and probably would even if we did give more food aid -- but remember that guy who left starving with giant worms in his gut was among the best-fed in the country.

The only solution will be internal revolution, which sadly the Kim dynasty has worked to prevent for generations by dumbing down school curriculum for people who do go to school and the paralyzing effect of fear. But eventually people will fight against these measures. I doubt the people who revolted in many monarchies were educated -- they were starving.

I don't think increasing aggressive language is going to help this revolution happen -- we need to diffuse the fears that the DPRK government uses to control their citizens, not fuel it. But would the dynasty have actually survived the "Arduous March" if we hadn't given them the food aid we did? Would they perhaps have decided to raise up against their government?

The country is incapable of feeding its people without imports, but they are still teaching their citizens that the strongest virtue is to be completely independent.

The people have to realize their government is lying to them, that they can't remain isolated out of "virtue" and live, and revolt.

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Response to sadiegirl (Original post)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:03 PM

7. russia's hands are very deep into this https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/north-korea-russia-an

just waiting for tRump to make the mistake! Russia is involved with providing NK the material and science needed. Since 2011, the year that Kim took power in his country and Assad began to lose control of his amid a nationwide uprising, the fortunes of both leaders have improved. North Korea quickly backed Assad, joining Russia and Iran in condemning what they considered a plot sponsored by the West and its Gulf Arab allies. While Syria's pro-Saudi Arabia opposition accused North Korea of sending troops to back Assad last year, it was Russia's 2015 intervention that helped turn the tides against rebels and jihadis. Earlier this month, Syria and its allies declared victory over one of their leading opponents, the Islamic State militant group (ISIS), and Assad emerged as the most powerful faction in the lengthy conflict.

This same year, North Korea successfully launched its first intercontinental ballistic missiles and conducted its sixth nuclear weapons test, a hydrogen bomb by far more powerful than all of its previous tests combined. Experts have said that nuclear-armed North Korea's military advancements and a resurgent Syrian military backed by Russia and Iran present serious threats to Trump's plans for the Middle East. source:Since 2011, the year that Kim took power in his country and Assad began to lose control of his amid a nationwide uprising, the fortunes of both leaders have improved. North Korea quickly backed Assad, joining Russia and Iran in condemning what they considered a plot sponsored by the West and its Gulf Arab allies. While Syria's pro-Saudi Arabia opposition accused North Korea of sending troops to back Assad last year, it was Russia's 2015 intervention that helped turn the tides against rebels and jihadis. Earlier this month, Syria and its allies declared victory over one of their leading opponents, the Islamic State militant group (ISIS), and Assad emerged as the most powerful faction in the lengthy conflict.

This same year, North Korea successfully launched its first intercontinental ballistic missiles and conducted its sixth nuclear weapons test, a hydrogen bomb by far more powerful than all of its previous tests combined. Experts have said that nuclear-armed North Korea's military advancements and a resurgent Syrian military backed by Russia and Iran present serious threats to Trump's plans for the Middle East.

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Response to sadiegirl (Original post)

Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:05 PM

8. Didn't FM Trump tell Tillerson to stop wasting his time with diplomacy w/NK?

and, of course, the State Department appears to be pretty much in shambles right now too.

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