About that second accuser . . .

[markpkessinger]

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Honestly, I don't see why the generalities would be hard to believe.

[INdemo]

22. What.....Oh you were the guy in the background with the Trump hat right?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. No, just someone who has been to the Minnesota State Fair, has posed in group photos where people

aren't staring at each others asses, and has been That Person who desperately wants to believe that what just happened actually didn't.

[Mellomugwump]

2. She also has a relaxed looking smile on her face

If somebody grabbed my butt while our picture was being taken, I think my expression would be more quizzical - like, did he just do what I think he did?

[rsdsharp]

6. Sorta like this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Laura+Bush+and+Prince+Charles&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMh9bz2tDXAhUs04MKHaQRDjUQ_AUICygC&biw=1246&bih=504#imgrc=9cYSElAUBtawFM:

[Mellomugwump]

8. Exactly like that!

[Ken Burch]

10. I will never unsee that look on her face.

[B2G]

9. Like this?

[Fred Sanders]

3. My wife, probably any wife, would have slapped the hand away and informed her spouse

standing mere feet away. This is not just fishy, it reeks of me too opportunistic publicity seeking.

Also note the first acusser accepted Franken's apology... if no further accusers came forward. Apology is still there and remains accepted.

What does that tell you?


I note Faux not running with this. What does that also tell you?

[GatoGordo]

14. You and your wife are not every wife

Several years ago, my wife was felt up by a drunken associate of mine, only feet away from me, and it wasn't until months after the event that she told me about it.

So, does that sound fishy to you? Do you think she is lying to me? What could be her angle in telling me so long after the event?

Is my wife unbelievable, for not telling me when it happened? For not saying/doing something when it happened?

What does this tell you?

[Fred Sanders]

16. Were you taking a photograph of the event? She told you months after...not 7 years later after

amid national media coverage. Was the groper a sitting Senator? Apples to oranges.

Please note there was a "probably" in my post you ignored.

[mythology]

47. Unfortunately for your point she told her husband at the time

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

You might think she's probably lying, but I know you made up your mind without bothering to actually read her side. The first cnn.com article had that information.

[Fred Sanders]

48. I stand corrected. Also claims to have told her father, which begs the question, why now?

[Demsrule86]

40. Franken is a Senator who was campaigning that day and was not drunk...one has to want to believe

the shit about Franken because it is bullshit and smells like it.

[unblock]

4. i'm supporting franken and i think this is an exercise in false equivalency

largely to act as if donnie's and moore's actions aren't way, way more severe and inexcusable.



however, we can't just act as if women never get felt up in public, in a crowd, or even right in front of their husbands.

it happens *all the time*. it shouldn't, but it does.



rather, i think we should focus on reminding people that moore hit on a 14-year old, which is the sort of thing people get sent away for on "to catch a criminal", and donnie abused his power as owner of pageants to barged in and ogled teenage girls in their dressing room, never mind his taped confessions to outright sexual assault.

oh, and the representative from montana pled guilty to criminal assault and yet they're not even thinking about investigating or disciplining him, never mind expulsion from the house....

[markpkessinger]

11. I'm not suggesting it doesn't or cannot happen . . .

I am saying it is highly implausible that someone in such a high profile position, even if he were inclined to grope women in general, would be so reckless as to do it in a very public setting, and in front of her husband. Politicians who engage in this sort of behavior, it seems to me, are generally very careful when and where they engage in it. It isn't that the allegations are implausible per se, but they do become pretty hard to believe when considered in the context of where it was alleged to have occurred.

[Hortensis]

45. Yes. And, the behavior claimed is HOSTILE and there is

something WRONG with the kind of creeps who act out hostility against women, something that leaves a history. Ex-wives and girlfriends with stories, coworkers, and of course strange women in crowds, and there have been many, many of those in his life.

We're seeing those speaking out against Weiner, Rose and others.

Being a Democratic senator is not the only huge difference between Franken and them.

[rzemanfl]

5. My observation earlier today.

Natural selection couldn't possibly produce a creature that could sense a hand on her fundament but not notice she was going 119 miles an hour.

[dalton99a]

17. +1

[Control-Z]

20. I'm missing something.

Can you help me understand your response?

[rzemanfl]

26. In my OP it said it proved the existence of gawd.

References are to Franken's second accuser allegedly feeling his hand on her butt and Jeanine Pirro driving 119 mph-whom I misquoted, it was "realize" not "notice."

[GatoGordo]

7. She expects us to believe...

... that she was assaulted.

1. The fact that Franken is a Senator is meaningless, unless we are to give Moore the same benefit of the doubt.
2. That Franken hasn't made a habit of grabbing women (even in "humor"?) on camera? See alleged victim #1. See picture of Franken with Ari Huffington. Clearly, he thinks grabbing women is funny.
3. That nobody saw it, including her husband? THERE WAS NOBODY BEHIND THEM. How is her husband supposed to know, if she didn't tell him?

I'm not so ready to throw this woman and her version of events under the bus for political expediency. Then factor in Frankens "I'm sorry you felt offended" apology. Gosh... she didn't understand Al's sense of humor!?

I like to think I'm pretty on top of things in the humor department. But I guess I don't understand Franken's creepy humor. I find it quite classless.

So, I guess if I have to choose who to believe, I believe her.

flame on...

[crosinski]

13. I support your right to believe whatever you want to believe.

Personally, I think there would be more women speaking up by now if Franken was serial grabber. But I think you put just as much thought into it as me, probably more, and came to a totally different conclusion. So, I guess we must be liberals.

[LisaM]

32. I have a lot of friends who go to the Minnesota State Fair and they seek out Franken's booth

because it's well known that he comes to the fair and spends time with his constituents. At least one of them had her picture taken with him, and has gone back subsequent years hoping she'll be there when he's at his booth.

I can't speak to anyone's individual story, of course, but just from my tiny slice of empirical observation - the subset of my friends who go to the Minnesota State Fair every year, some of whom have met Al Franken there - this woman's story certainly doesn't sound like any part of a pattern, to say the least, and her family's issue seems to have been that they were standing too close together. So, I don't know.

[crosinski]

50. Thanks for adding this.

My husband just told me that he almost patted my friend's butt while hugging her goodbye one time. You see, he always pats my butt when he hugs me. So, yeah, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, maybe it was innocent. In any case, it's looking like Franken is not some sort of serial butt grabber, but time will tell.

[Skittles]

55. at work I called an oncall system engineer in the middle of the night

before hanging up he said "thanks honey", then quickly called me back, mortified - his daughter's name was the same as mine....it cracked me up

[markpkessinger]

15. The photo in the case of 'Victim 1" does not show Franken groping the woman at all...

... It shows him pretending to grope her. The woman herself has said she has no memory of him groping her, but "realized" it after she saw the photo. But if you look closely at that photo, you can see he wasn't actually touching her. There are shadows cast by his fingers onto her flak jacket that indicate there was space between his hands and the flak jacket. (I asked a friend of mine who is a very accomplished professional photographer what he saw when he looked at the photo; he said he is absolutely certain Franken's hands were not touching her. My photographer friend and I are both gay, btw, so it's not like we're out to protect hetero male privilege!)

Franken's actions in the photo were juvenile, crude, in extremely poor taste and utterly inappropriate, but it was not an assault of any kind. So what we're left with is the alleged kiss, which may or may not have happened and I don't defend it if it did. But the photo, which was presented as a sort of corroboration of the woman's primary allegation, is evidence of nothing other than a case of really poor judgment on Franken's part. tt has no bearing on whether her other allegation is true or not.

Also, my point in noting that Franken was a U.S. Senator was not intended to suggest that a U.S. Senator could never do such a thing; I pointed it out to suggest that as such a high profile person, Franken had a lot to lose were he to be so reckless in his public behavior. I find it difficult to believe he would have wanted to take that risk even if he were inclined to the alleged behavior

[maddiemom]

21. Add in the tape of her grabbing the guitar player's butt...

AND making "dry humping" movements and "Victim" One would seem to have a raunchy sense of humor and to be displaying it on that tour. You'd assume that she wouldn't be offended by a fake leering and "copping a feel" over her flak vest photo.

[trof]

27. Groping through a flak vest is like groping through drywall.

You could just grope your ass off, but the gropee will feel NOTHING.
Didn't happen, anyway.

[TiberiusB]

38. A different take...

A few things to consider:

1.)He was a senator at a public event along with other politicians, I believe. You think he has so little impulse control that he would simply spontaneously grope this one woman and risk his career by creating a scene at a very public event? That would suggest a personality driven to such extremes that there would be many more incidents coming to light than just these very questionable two.

2.)Franken hasn't made a habit of grabbing women on camera. He didn't grab Tweeden. He made the gesture, but didn't actually grab her, and the picture with Arianna Huffington was staged for a photoshoot. If Ms. Huffington didn't object then or now, you really have no case at all for claiming Senator Franken has a "habit" of grabbing women on camera.

3.)The husband might know if she suddenly jumped after being surprised by the supposed assault. That's a pretty common reflex, I would think. It's not like she saw it coming. She instead stayed perfectly calm and smiled.

4.)How many of the current flood of sexual misconduct stories involve men openly groping women in public? I'm genuinely curious as I can't seem to think of any, other than this one.

[Drahthaardogs]

49. If there were other people around them

Someone else could have grabbed her ass. If they were both looking at the camera, how does she know?

Seriously, someone grabbed my ass at a concert once. I have no idea if it was a man or woman. In a crowd...

[mucifer]

52. Arianna Huffington actually bashed the paper that lied about her and she supported Franken. and...

I was really expecting something negative from Randi Rhoades from Air America. She really had been vocal even right before the crazy close senate race saying he wasn't qualified and that he did things she didn't like. She wasn't very specific at the time so I was suspecting in those days he might have harassed some women.

But, then she came out supporting him. She being an older woman was saying she felt women would come to her if they felt he was being abusive. It would make sense that she is on the radio saying vague negative things about Al Franken you would think it would open up women to talking with her . Yet, so far no Air America women have filed complaints.

Also so far none of the SNL women from the coked up '70s have come forward with similar experiences.

[questionseverything]

58. the snl woman sent a letter of support

and all his aides have spoken glowingly of him

[Demsrule86]

41. I don't and I said...one has to want to believe this shit...and I suggest you watch Keith Olberman

who has some new photos from the USO show. let just say this Hannity buddy and Fox girl gets less and less credible on a daily basis.

[cwydro]

59. Wow.

Just wow.

[maxrandb]

12. We MUST believe her

Or we support rape!

Those are the only choices you have for some on DU

[markpkessinger]

18. Exactly!

A friend on Facebook suggested I was "being a Republican" for not accepting the first accuser's accusations at face value. I pointed out that nothing plays into Republican hands better than allowing ourselves to be bullied into some narrative of false equivalence!

[Doremus]

24. Marching lockstep with no critical thought process is a repuke trait. nt

[Demsrule86]

42. I don't believe her and I don't support rape...are these folks secretly righties? Or do they really

believe right wing women won't lie to get book deals and attention...and score political points...

[maxrandb]

44. Yeah

A MAJORITY of white women voted for Donnie Short Fingers.

Clearly if they are capable of that, they're capable of anything.

[Snackshack]

56. This is what it appears...

To be coming too. If one does not automatically believe the accusation based on just the accusation one must support the harassment.

[marieo1]

19. Second accuser

I have found out the first accuser is a DJT supporter!! and.........I'll bet the other is, too. What better way to get the focus off the Russia thing and off Moore!!

[LisaL]

25. The second one said she voted for Trump, so, yes, she is a Trump supporter.

[Demsrule86]

43. She voted for Trump...

[forthemiddle]

23. First of all, I dont think he is a sexual predator

But I do believe he “goosed “ that woman.
As a disclaimer, I have never thought Al Franken was funny, so take my comments as you will.

I think he has always used juvenile humor as his shtick. I think he thought both encounters were funny, but the women truly felt violated.

Does that make sense? I also think George HW Bush is along the same lines (David Cop a Feel).

That doesn’t make it more comfortable for the women that experienced it, but it’s not really sexual assault either.

Let this just be a warning to the men that think bedroom humor is funny for all, it may make the women around you very uncomfortable.

[dhol82]

30. And, it could be that, as a short person, his hand could have just naturally laid in the vicinity of

her ass just as a natural motion while posing.
Think about when you take a picture with friends. Do your hands never go below the waist at any time?
This woman was a christer as indicated by her comments with her sister and the ‘bible’ width separation. She might have been offended by a casual brush in the vicinity of her ass.

I have a problem with a woman who feels ‘violated’ and does not scream out to her husband who is taking the freaking picture!
When she told him about her concerns why did he not come over and punch Franken in the nose?

Sorry, this story stinks.

[dhol82]

31. Do you really think he shoved his finger up her ass?

Don’t you think she would have jumped and screamed?

Really, get a grip.

[forthemiddle]

35. Did I miss something?

Where did I say anything about a finger up her ass?

I said I believe he probably goosed her, or squeezed her ass, but he never meant it as a sexual come on. He was just using his juvenile humor. But the woman may have been uncomfortable.

Why is that offensive to you? Not all woman think bedroom humor is funny, but nor would they make a scene about it at the time.

[dhol82]

39. Goosing is a very specific term.

It means shoving a finger anywhere near the crack.
At least that was always my understanding of the term.

And, why would you think that a casual brush around the behind was a sexual come on?
This woman was, and probably still is, a devout Christian as per her interaction with her sister about this. Not sure why she stood so close to Al. If she was so devout she should have just done a hand shake and not a huggy huggy photo op.
And, don’t forget, HER HUSBAND TOOK THE PICTURE. Don’t you think he would have noticed something awry?

[kcr]

34. Is she now claiming he did that?

If so she's changing her story. No way. No way someone does that and no one else around can tell that happened. And no way she wouldn't show any reaction.

[trueblue2007]

28. i don't believe her

[cwydro]

60. Me either.

Not for a second.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. Yeah, he waited to be surrounded by people, cameras, to do something he NEVER

ever does.

right

This is not HE said vs SHE said, it is well known good guy known for being faithful to his wife and being honest said, person connected to the worst rightwing filth on the planet said.

Some of his future liars, accusers, wont even be connected to filth like hannity or stone, they will just claim this kind of bullshit like at the fair, this is is just the beginning and not just Al

Think of all the deplorables out there who would LOVE to get their ten minutes AND take down a real patriot like Al at the same time.

We should know by now cons never tell the truth and there is NOTHING they wont do.

[George II]

33. I agree 100%, but you realize you're risking being accused of "slut shaming".

[Ms. Toad]

37. The exact same thing happened to me - not with Franken, but my reaction was the same

Standing around saying goodbye to friends. All of a sudden, the one standing next to me has his hand on my buttocks, fondling it. No photo - but othewise pretty darn similar.

WTF - now what do I do - we were in the middle of somewhere between 200 and 1000 people (cafeteria at a conference with ~1500 in attendance), largely people I consider friends.

The fondling was over before I had a chance to process what was going on - or to decide how to react to it - because it was so unexpected. Do I make as scene among mutual friends - as if this guy was a random stranger - or just stay the heck away from this guy in the future.

I'm pretty sure I'd have the same reaction had it happened to me with my senator - disbelief, and an inability to make a decision about it and, yes, sharing the incident with my spouse after the fact (she was not present).

Later, when this guy wondered why I was avoiding him, we had a long conversation about his acts. Although he remembered it, it never even occurred to him that he was doing anything inappropriate. That incident really woke him up - but it is proof that the universe in which this makes sense is this universe we live in in which far too many men think nothing of fondling women privately - or even in public.

[gollygee]

46. I've had this happen

Somewhere around 20 years ago, in a crowded place while my husband snapped my picture, an elderly man grabbed my butt. I was uncomfortable but he was a veteran and it was at a WWII veteran event and I didn't feel right saying anything. I told my husband after we moved away from him, and he called him a dirty old man, and we moved on to something else at the event. We didn't do anything else because he was so old and it would have turned the event into something else. (I'm not sure why him being so old made such a difference to me but it did.)

I will say that "He totally molested me" is something I've heard young people flippantly say as a total joke where nothing inappropriate happened, so I don't think her saying that on Facebook at the time means anything. But this kind of thing does and can happen.

[Kentonio]

61. Yeah, the wording of that FB post was questionable.

"Dude -- Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!"

Maybe she just writes like a teen, but that sounded like someone being sarcastic to me, in response to the sisters post about them standing close together.

[fallout87]

51. So we are to believe the women

Unless the accusations are against someone in our party? Is that how this works? How do you think that standpoint is going to work out in the public sphere?

[uponit7771]

53. No and you know that but if something looks fucked up its rational to question it ...

... still waiting on this account.

If he's a groper she aint the only one.

[Chasstev365]

54. 100 Bucks says she driving a new Mercedes in 2 weeks!

[jimlup]

57. Bulls Eye!

This is clearly a hit job.

[sellitman]

62. This whole story has the smell of Roger Stone all over it

He has to be the biggest Rat effer ever.

I hope he winds up in jail.

[Wednesdays]

63. The trolling is strong in this one.

The replies, I mean.