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Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:19 PM

The whole UCLA player shoplifting thing...

Let me understand this. The UCLA players did in fact commit a crime, and Trump got them off the hook with no consequences (in China, at least)? Are we supposed to applaud Trump's use of a "get-out-of-jail-free" card in this instance? Something doesn't feel right about that to me. I mean, if these kids had done this on UCLA's campus, and were given a pass based on their status as athletes, we wouldn't be cool with that, right?

Is it because China's punishment may have been harsher than for a similar circumstance in the US?

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply The whole UCLA player shoplifting thing... (Original post)
ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 OP
exboyfil Nov 2017 #1
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #2
ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #7
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #9
ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #10
LisaL Nov 2017 #18
MaryMagdaline Nov 2017 #3
MineralMan Nov 2017 #4
exboyfil Nov 2017 #6
MineralMan Nov 2017 #8
WillowTree Nov 2017 #11
MineralMan Nov 2017 #12
WillowTree Nov 2017 #13
MineralMan Nov 2017 #14
WillowTree Nov 2017 #16
LisaL Nov 2017 #17
WillowTree Nov 2017 #19
brewens Nov 2017 #15
exboyfil Nov 2017 #5
Are_grits_groceries Nov 2017 #20

Response to ExciteBike66 (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:29 PM

1. This is one of the reasons for a State Department

They do work to minimize the impact to US citizens accused or convicted of crimes. This is the State Department that Trump is gutting. My hope.would be that all US citizens are treated equally that the players fame did not make the situation easier or harder. If Trump used his influence to prevent unfair treatment that is to the good. If he exerted pressure greater than the Us State Dept. Then that is a problem.

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:32 PM

2. The penalty would be ten years in China...so no I don't agree.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:41 PM

7. Is that the automatic penalty for first-time offenses?

I have seen it written that there are several possible penalties in China, and also we would probably need more info as to the value of items stolen.

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:45 PM

9. Three to Ten years...

But I don't want American kids rotting in jail for any amount of time in China ...a totalitarian government. One day would be too long.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 04:17 PM

18. If you go to other country and commit a crime, why shouldn't you suffer the consequences?

Or do you think US citizens should get off for crimes they commit in other countries because they are US citizens?

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:32 PM

3. Bring them home

The President, the State Department, et al., did the right thing to bring them home. We don't know if there was restitution paid (this is sometimes done in the US -- retailers will sometimes accept restitution in lieu of prosecution). Since they stole something, they don't deserve to get out of jail free, but they were brought to China by UCLA. As a courtesy to UCLA and USA, China let them go home. How many thousands of Chinese students attend California universities? (They are given preference because they pay cash and their tests scores, very often totally bogus, are accepted at face value over American students). Keeping on the good side of UCLA was probably smart for China.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:35 PM

4. They are home, and have been suspended from their team

indefinitely, but others have been jailed here for shoplifting who weren't star athletes. Lots of injustices out there, it seems.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:39 PM

6. I have not kept up

Are there are cases being cited regarding US citizens caught shoplifting in China - that would be an interesting contrast. My suspicion was that the State Department would get involved in those cases.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:44 PM

8. There are US Citizens in prisons all over the world.

Typically, the State Department does not work all that hard to get them released, really. Only in some highly publicized cases is a strong effort made to get them released.

The average American who is arrested, tried and convicted of crimes in other countries ends up serving his or her sentence. While the US Embassy may provide some assistance in finding legal representation and other things, it does not get involved in criminal cases in other countries.

Here's a page from the US Embassy in the Dominican Republic. It is representative of US policy with regard to US citizens arrested in other countries.

https://do.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/arrest-of-a-u-s-citizen/

You'll find some other information here:

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/gp_solo/2013/may_june/innocents_and_guilty_abroad.html

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:50 PM

11. To be fair, there isn't a whole lot more that could be done to them at this point.

There's nothing to prosecute them for in this country and we sure don't want them to pay some really draconian price in China. Being kicked off of a UCLA basketball team isn't small, and as I said, it's about all that's available.

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Response to WillowTree (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:52 PM

12. My suggestion, as always, is not to steal stuff or violate laws.

That generally works pretty well to keep yourself from facing punishment.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:54 PM

13. Well........yeah. Sadly, that horse already done escaped the barn though.

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Response to WillowTree (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:59 PM

14. Yeah, so it has.

Well, I imagine that is going to impact those young men's careers as basketball players. Consequences sometimes change the course of things, don't they.

I wonder what they shoplifted from that expensive tourist store? I doubt it's worth what it will end up costing them.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 04:13 PM

16. I forget where I read it, but I heard it was sunglasses.

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Response to WillowTree (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 04:15 PM

17. We sure don't want them to pay price in China?

Why not? Should US citizens be allowed to commit crimes when they visit other countries and get off because they are US citizens?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 04:18 PM

19. That's not what I said.

You left out a significant word from what I actually did say. Makes a difference.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 04:00 PM

15. Two Washinton Stae Cougar football players were caught shoplifting at their local

Walmart. They were kicked off the team before the day was done. One was a defensive back that played a lot too.

You hate to see that. I really hope it wasn't just a one time case of stupidity from otherwise good kids. Often it's one that's a badass and his fool that goes along with what he wants to do. I suppose if they get their act together, they will play again at a different school.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:37 PM

5. So who paid the compensation?

Even if the Ball father paid it, it still would be a NCAA violation for the other two students. If UCLA paid it, well I would hope the taxpayer is made aware of the situation. Also that would seem to be a violation as well.

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 05:20 PM

20. This would have probably happened no matter who the president was.

I think any official rep of the US would have asked.
It does help China too. They couldn’t let the shoplifting go unchecked but I doubt if they wanted to have 3 high profile kids on their hands. Doing a favor for Trump gives both sides cover.

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