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Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:40 PM

Democratic socialism is having a very good year at the ballot box

When Lee Carter realized that he had defeated an entrenched Republican incumbent and been elected to the Virginia House of Delegates on November 7, the 30-year-old Marine veteran claimed his upset victory.

The Virginian was one of many candidates who were inspired by the 2016 presidential campaign of another democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders. The senator recognized the Virginia result by declaring that "Lee Carter’s victory shows beyond doubt that the American people are ready for change."

Lee Carter’s unapologetically socialist and passionately populist candidacy unsettled establishment Democrats in Virginia, to such an extent that Richmond Times-Dispatch political writer Patrick Wilson reported in late October that the challenger had been “abandoned” by the party brass.

That had a lot to do with corporate power, and its influence on both major parties.

But his victory was critical for Virginia Democrats, who picked up enough seats - at least 15 - to be on the verge of taking charge of the House of Delegates for the first time in almost two decades.

Carter recognized something that elite Democrats did not: Voters are far readier for a politics that pushes to the left on economic and social policy. And they are not particularly bothered by the word “socialist.”

His Republican opponent sent voters a pre-election mailer that juxtaposed the Marine veteran’s image with those of Soviet leaders and China’s Mao Zedong. The word “Socialism” was splashed across the front of the red leaflet.

The attack fell flat. Carter won with ease, securing almost 55% of the vote - and he was not alone. After the November 7 election, Democratic Socialists of America announced that its membership “now includes 15 new elected officials. This is in addition to 20 elected already in offices around the United States.”

At: https://www.thenation.com/article/democratic-socialism-is-having-a-very-good-year-at-the-ballot-box/

123 replies, 2553 views

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Arrow 123 replies Author Time Post
Reply Democratic socialism is having a very good year at the ballot box (Original post)
sandensea Nov 13 OP
lapucelle Nov 13 #1
sandensea Nov 13 #2
lapucelle Nov 13 #7
sandensea Nov 13 #10
NCTraveler Nov 13 #3
sandensea Nov 13 #4
NCTraveler Nov 13 #9
SandyZ Nov 13 #21
sandensea Nov 13 #23
SandyZ Nov 13 #28
sandensea Nov 13 #31
Nevernose Nov 13 #44
sandensea Nov 13 #46
Nevernose Nov 13 #52
sandensea Nov 13 #55
lapucelle Tuesday #95
NCTraveler Tuesday #67
sandensea Tuesday #70
NCTraveler Tuesday #73
sandensea Tuesday #74
NCTraveler Tuesday #75
greeny2323 Nov 13 #5
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #8
sandensea Nov 13 #12
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #13
sandensea Nov 13 #14
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #15
sandensea Nov 13 #16
SandyZ Nov 13 #22
sandensea Nov 13 #25
SandyZ Nov 13 #29
sandensea Nov 13 #32
Ninsianna Tuesday #84
KTM Nov 13 #20
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #27
KTM Nov 13 #35
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #42
KTM Nov 13 #47
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #49
KTM Nov 13 #51
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #56
YoungDemCA Tuesday #68
Ninsianna Tuesday #87
KTM Tuesday #93
Post removed Tuesday #63
Eliot Rosewater Tuesday #81
Madam45for2923 Nov 13 #6
Hortensis Nov 13 #50
SandyZ Nov 13 #53
ehrnst Tuesday #79
Hortensis Tuesday #92
delisen Wednesday #103
Hortensis Wednesday #117
Eliot Rosewater Tuesday #82
brooklynite Nov 13 #11
sandensea Nov 13 #17
brooklynite Nov 13 #18
sandensea Nov 13 #19
SandyZ Nov 13 #24
sandensea Nov 13 #30
ehrnst Tuesday #80
romana Wednesday #115
CanSocDem Wednesday #97
LanternWaste Tuesday #62
brooklynite Tuesday #69
YoungDemCA Tuesday #72
brooklynite Tuesday #78
Ninsianna Tuesday #88
LineReply .
ismnotwasm Nov 13 #26
KTM Nov 13 #37
sandensea Nov 13 #39
Tarheel_Dem Nov 13 #33
sandensea Nov 13 #36
Ninsianna Tuesday #85
The_Casual_Observer Nov 13 #34
sandensea Nov 13 #38
SandyZ Nov 13 #40
sandensea Nov 13 #43
The_Casual_Observer Nov 13 #41
sandensea Nov 13 #45
SandyZ Nov 13 #48
sandensea Nov 13 #54
SandyZ Nov 13 #57
Demsrule86 Wednesday #101
Ninsianna Tuesday #86
The_Casual_Observer Tuesday #94
George II Tuesday #58
sandensea Tuesday #59
SandyZ Tuesday #60
ismnotwasm Tuesday #66
YoungDemCA Tuesday #71
SandyZ Tuesday #83
Ninsianna Tuesday #89
George II Tuesday #76
Orsino Tuesday #61
YoungDemCA Tuesday #64
lapucelle Wednesday #96
Ninsianna Tuesday #90
SandyZ Tuesday #91
Orsino Wednesday #98
brooklynite Wednesday #99
Demsrule86 Wednesday #100
Orsino Wednesday #102
Demsrule86 Wednesday #104
Orsino Wednesday #110
Demsrule86 Wednesday #112
YoungDemCA Tuesday #65
Me. Tuesday #77
Demsrule86 Wednesday #105
Me. Wednesday #107
Demsrule86 Wednesday #114
David__77 Wednesday #108
Demsrule86 Wednesday #113
David__77 Wednesday #119
Demsrule86 Saturday #123
Me. Wednesday #116
David__77 Wednesday #118
Me. Wednesday #120
David__77 Wednesday #121
Me. Wednesday #122
DeminPennswoods Wednesday #106
David__77 Wednesday #109
mvd Wednesday #111

Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:45 PM

1. Lee Carter is a Democrat.

from his campaign website:

[Lee Carter] is an active member of the Manassas City Democratic Committee, and spends much of his time working as a community organizer and activist — particularly in the areas of affordable housing and worker protections.

http://www.carterforvirginia.com/about/

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:50 PM

2. A Democrat with democratic socialist views.

Like close to half of all Democrats.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:04 PM

7. Democrats had a great night in VA, including Democrat Lee Carter.

100% of Democrats are Democrats.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:07 PM

10. They sho' did!

They'll have an even better one once these recounts are done and over with (GOP trying to steal three seats - and thus control of the VA House of Delegates - by refusing to count provisionals, etc.).

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:56 PM

3. Solid pick up for us.

Great night. So many wins by a wide range of people. We seem to be energized across the spectrum.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:00 PM

4. Was a great night.

We really need to reclaim the populist mantle from the Archie Bunkers and Jim Crows in the GOP (who couldn't care less about people). And he's the kind of lawmaker who can help make it happen.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:06 PM

9. I dont know much about him.

Young, thoughtful, tendencies toward social solutions, willing to put skin in the game.

That’s about all I know about him and if accurate it sounds really good.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:52 PM

21. He sounds a Democrat to me.

Was he calling himself a socialist? Curious. What policy does he stand far left of that the Democratic Party does not. Reading the article, I found nothing to give a clarifying point to what your Op is stating.

Edit: I meant this as a reply to your post 12

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:56 PM

23. He's a Democrat, and ran (and won) as one.

He happens to have social democratic views.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:00 PM

28. How? This is what I am asking. I am seeing three Op's trying to take Democratic wins

away from the Democratic Party and giving them to Sanders.

He ran as a Democrat, within the party. As I said, sounds like a Democrat.

Why is he being herded out of the Democratic Party by you and others? What would be the view point that separates him from Democrats?


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Response to SandyZ (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:05 PM

31. I consider them Democrats from head to toe.

I regret I gave you the impression I'm trying to "herd them out" of the Democratic Party.

Diversity of ideas - within the progressive spectrum, ideally - is the name of the game if we're to have more election nights like last week's.

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:32 PM

44. Its HIM that identifies as a Democratic Socialist

Quickest possible explainer:

They USED to be a political party. Now they’re activists primarily. Not so much fundraising, but protests, marches, volunteering.

They realized a few decades ago that they weren’t going to win as a political party and were going to have to work within our mostly two party system.

So — besides the BLM marches and antifa protests — their money and volunteerism goes almost entirely to the most progressive Democrats they can find.

They’re trying to pull Left, but they generally ARE socialists. Not just Sanders socialists or FDR socialists (which are nice places to be), but many are literal “workers should control the means of production” socialists. Not communists, but far more liberal than moderate.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #44)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:39 PM

46. But he ran as a (big D) Democrat.

What 'ism' he subscribes to is a personal matter.

Nor would I be concerned about his pulling the party too far to the left; I'd be surprised if he really tries - or wants to, really.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:51 PM

52. Its confusing to me too

Either he means it as in DSA the club, or he means it as his “style” of political belief. Either way it’s no harm. A Democrat won.

Big tent. I’d rather see a compromise between Ralph Northam and a socialist than a compromise between Northam and, say, Roy Moore, any day of the week.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:55 PM

55. Well said.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 09:55 PM

95. Their tax return makes for interesting reading.

DSA files as a corporation and appears to spend most of its revenue on salaries and expenses.

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2015/133/109/2015-133109557-0d994fd2-9O.pdf

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Response to sandensea (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:21 PM

67. "He happens to have social democratic views."

Not one Democrat would be omitted from that qualifier. Including Manchin.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #70)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:28 PM

73. You presented a straw man with no true counterargument.

Mainly because I am accurate. Highly doubt you read the argument as it has nothing to do with that which you replied.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #73)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:29 PM

74. No. You mentioned ol' Joe Manchin as an example of 'social democratic' views.

I wish he did actually have some.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #74)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:36 PM

75. "I wish he did actually have some."

It's not something someone is in possession of. It's a part of ideological thought. It's also clear you didn't read the article you attempted to refute with. Well, I did. It doesn't back up your claim. No one issue article could even if on topic, which your reply was not.

"You mentioned ol' Joe Manchin as an example of 'social democratic' views."

No, I did not mention him as an example of 'social democratic' views. Very strange wording by you.

"He happens to have social democratic views." Your quote

"Not one Democrat would be omitted from that qualifier. Including Manchin." My response.

I am completely accurate. Not one democrat would be omitted from your qualifier, including Manchin. Your link that has nothing to do with any of this negates nothing.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:03 PM

5. So are Democrats.... n/t

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Response to greeny2323 (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:04 PM

8. I know, what is this about?

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:50 PM

12. These are Democrats (cap. D) with democratic socialist (small d) views.

I'm glad they running on the Democratic ticket (and of course, winning).

I'd have a problem with them if they had chosen to run on a third-party ticket - which as we all know is what the GOPee would want them to do.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:00 PM

13. Did they endorse the Democratic nominee in 2016?

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:09 PM

14. I hope so.

But just as we'd welcome Republicans who saw the light, we shouldn't reject progressives who may (again, may) have not endorsed Hillary last year.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:17 PM

15. Well, that sounds very convincing....................................not.

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:20 PM

16. Sorry to hear that.

If our party is to succeed, it'll have to be a big tent with room for anyone of good faith opposed to this very well-oiled right-wing onslaught these days.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:55 PM

22. Not if the purpose is to continue divide and attacking in order to gain ownership at our expense.

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:59 PM

25. Hence, good faith.

I think these candidates had it.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:02 PM

29. We are seeing it now, as ownership is being sifted from the Democratic Party and

others taking ownership of the win. you say good faith. Don't gaslight. Tell us one thing while pulling a switch or the table clothe from under the dish settings.

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:12 PM

32. Likewise.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:10 PM

84. Nope. If you had any claim to progressivism last year you voted for the only progressive

on the ticket, if you went Trump, or Putin's dinner companion, you are not a progressive, you simply elected Trump, despite being told repeatedly what was at stake. No real progressive ignores the facts on the table for personal purity simply because they were not in immediate danger themselves.

Sorry, the every freaking day of this year has made this undeniably clear.

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:48 PM

20. What if they didnt ?

Would you oppose them ? Would you prefer they did not assist in gaining control of the Virginia House of Delegates because *gasp* they were Democratic Socialists who supported Bernie, like some 43% of their fellow Democrats ?

I mean, sure, of course I hope they stood against Trump... but for all the dismissive talk of "purity" here, it seems like many have a rather stark litmus test for our allies.

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Response to KTM (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:59 PM

27. Yes, because it shows if they have an agenda that is anti-DEM or not. Important to know.

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:18 PM

35. Seriously?? You would prefer they had not won ???

You would rather that we had not flipped 15 seats in the Virginia House of Delegates ? That we had not come as close as we have to gaining control of the house for the first time in 17 years ? Really ???

You realize that these people, who apparently have somewhat different political views than you, are Democrats, right ?

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Response to KTM (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:29 PM

42. Prefer who had not won? I am a DEM! DEMS FOR THE WIN! woohoo! Anti-DEMS, nah!

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:40 PM

47. Well, you JUST SAID you would oppose these DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

These candidates, who ran and won as Democrats, who also hold socialist views and were endorsed by DSA, won. When I asked if you would prefer they had not, you said yes.

You want to claim they are "Anti-DEMS," (mostly because you confused DSA with DFA and haven't yet admitted that) and have come out and said you would oppose them...

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Response to KTM (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:45 PM

49. WTH? I only oppose anti-DEMs and those whose agendas are anti-DEM. Why would I oppose them?

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:50 PM

51. Your posts are right above this; we can all read.

Me: "Would you oppose them [if they had not supported HRC in the last election (previous post)] ? Would you prefer they did not assist in gaining control of the Virginia House of Delegates because *gasp* they were Democratic Socialists who supported Bernie, like some 43% of their fellow Democrats ? "

You: "Yes, because it shows if they have an agenda that is anti-DEM or not. Important to know."

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Response to KTM (Reply #51)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:55 PM

56. I support the DEM party. People who did not support or endorse or vote for HRC hurt our country.

 

and our party.

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #56)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:23 PM

68. 13 million Sanders voters in the Democratic Party primaries. Many fall into your listed categories.

 

13 million is a LOT of people. Don't throw them all the under bus - if for no other reason than the fact that Democrats need a lot of them to win.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #68)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:19 PM

87. Yes, they're called Democrats.

They're also really pissed off at how these constants attacks on the party and it's base are doing nothing to help in our fight against Trump. I guess thei voices don't matter either to anyone eager to silence dissent against anointed people who do nothing but trash Democrats and our base.

Democrats need Democrats to win? What a brilliant conclusion, I guess attacking them is a bad idea for anyone who claims to not be a right wing tool being used to divide the party.

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Response to Ninsianna (Reply #87)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 08:38 PM

93. Who are "they" ?

"anointed people who do nothing but trash Democrats and our base."

Do tell.

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #27)


Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:02 PM

81. I cant say what needs to be said here, but am glad you are saying it.



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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:03 PM

6. Is this a new meme? I feel like I missed the memo!

 

DEMS FTW!

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:45 PM

50. I think Sanders smartened up, but I"m not on his email

list so I didn't get the message.

However, in 2016 he semi-actively supported a tiny handful of candidates who wooed him, and when only a couple were elected he came off looking weak and poorly.

If you go over to Sanders' website now, though, you'll find him claiming a large field of candidates as his own. Power! Probably surprises most of them to be listed there that way, but any who win office will no doubt also be surprised to be claimed as his victories. Even if his entire contribution to their races is an email on election day.

Just like those great Democratic Party victories on Tuesday. People work their butts off, and he sends an email and adds their names to his score.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #50)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:52 PM

53. Yes.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 06:48 PM

79. Certainly DiBlasio wasn't an upset ...44 points ahead in the polls

Despite photo ops at the finish line, it wasn't endorsements that won for DiBlasio.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #79)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:50 PM

92. For sure. An incumbent product of NYers. He also operates

mostly within the system, pushing left from within and working with others. There's a giant world of difference between that and the radical, our-way-or-burn-it-down types.

And blatant refusals by Sanders to endorse didn't lose elections for others.

I'm still really angry every time I think of Sanders and Virginia's DFA. Immigrant and Latino groups supported Northam, but that meant nothing to them. They chose to betray those they claimed to fight for, preferring the election of a Republican over a Democrat whose election wouldn't increase the power of their little faction.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:24 AM

103. Like the Stolen Valor people who wear the medals but

never served in the armed forces,

there is now a subset of Sanders-backing "progressives" who

now want to claim any and every Democratic Party victory as due to them.

This subset seems to be running a phony revolution of propaganda messages.





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Response to delisen (Reply #103)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 04:25 PM

117. Phony, all right. 90% of the time their ISSUES agenda is the same as

Last edited Wed Nov 15, 2017, 05:03 PM - Edit history (2)

the Democratic Party's. The other 10% they're either direct attacks, such as repeal-and-replace the ACA because it wasn't Sanders' legacy, or in unachievable rainbow-unicorn land, or both.

Such a shame their MAIN agenda is replacing enough of us "corrupt" Democrats to take over the party. I usually am able to shrug at most of their attacks, but the genuine unhappiness at the recent wave of victories over the evil forces on the right just has me still too disgusted for that.

Sanders makes no bones about his needing to take over the party to "reform" it, and new seats gained by Democratic candidates put dents in their delusions. The sad fact is, this is all far more about gaining power than issues (just ask all the Hispanics in Virginia who supported Northam), and the obvious, disgusting reality is that they're in an enemies-of-our-enemy situation.

Putin is desperate to keep the Democratic Party out of power because we are THE American threat to his hegemonic aspirations, even to his continued personal power. So he attacks the Democratic Party.

Same for the GOP's masters, the new American plutocratic class. Obama used his limited power to remarkable effect, considering, to start taking them down, and we absolutely intended to continue that. So they attack the Democratic Party.

The radical left piggybacks long rides on vicious lies from both to attack the Democratic Party. Plus, unfortunately for their goals, right now all the current negative media attention to the Republicans is not negative media hits on the Democratic Party that they can use to attack the Democratic Party.

So what's new with this, except of course the two huge, existential threats to our democracy from kleptocrats within and without?

On the plus side, in some districts Progressivs are getting some new people out with their message. That's not nothing, just close to comparatively and when it's all settled out. Also happily for us, they're currently not able to hurt us because the Republicans are making us look really good.

Poor dears...

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:04 PM

82. I know, right LOL and my meme is simple

I vote for any democrat as if YOUR Life depends on it, because yours does, mine does, etc.

I dont point out that a given candidate had more socialistic views than another in my party, you see that would DIVIDE us.
But you get that, I am just talking to you because if I talk to some others around here they will try and silence me.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:09 PM

11. Which means of production is he proposing to have the Commonwealth take over?

If the answer is "none", he's still a capitalist.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:29 PM

17. Democratic socialists aren't communists, you know.

Think Olof Palme and Felipe González - not Lenin or Mao.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:36 PM

18. Socialism (Noun)

socialism

a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


Olaf Palme was a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT, not a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST

Words have meanings.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:42 PM

19. Nor are these people communists - or socialists in the sense you're referring to.

I know you know better.

That said, we need to welcome people from a broader political spectrum than the Clintons, the DLC, etc. offer - without forgetting these latter are absolutely essential too.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:57 PM

24. So, they are not socialist, but want to be separate from Democratic, within the

Democratic Party while being Democrats allowing Sanders, an Independent, a win.

This is becoming a little too obvious, you think?

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:02 PM

30. Sure - but we should give people at least a little benefit of the doubt.

Especially people who share most if not all our values - and who win elections for our side.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 06:49 PM

80. You mean like so many self-identified DSA gave Hillary? (nt)

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:01 PM

115. Thank you for saying that. /nt

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 07:03 AM

97. "...owned-regulated by the community..."



Production, distribution and exchange is managed by the community-for the community.

"community" means ALL of the citizens of that community. NOT the 1% who currently tells you when to jump and how high.

What have you got against participatory democracy? Will you participate only if there is a female candidate?


.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:15 PM

62. No one is arguing otherwise.

" he's still a capitalist..."

No one is arguing otherwise.

(it helps to know the platform of the DSA prior to using bumper stickers.)

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:25 PM

69. The OP suggests that Democratic Socialism (a philosophy inconsistent with capitalism)...

...is doing well, not DSA (an organization).

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #69)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:28 PM

72. And the OP is correct.

 

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #72)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:52 PM

78. And my reply remains the same...

none of these self-branded socialists show any sign of being socialists. I’m delighted if they want to be capitalist social democrats.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #72)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:22 PM

88. The OP is not.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:59 PM

26. .

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:20 PM

37. Thats a whole lot of laughing....

Whats so funny ?

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Response to KTM (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:25 PM

39. Does he live in Colorado?

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:17 PM

33. He's a Democrat, and nothing in your article separates him from the party that voted for him.

Please Stop This!

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:20 PM

36. He is indeed a Democrat.

With social democratic views.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:12 PM

85. Which means he's just a run of the mill Dem, one with the integrity to support and be a

member of the party itself. Congrats to him.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:17 PM

34. He identifies and was primarily supported

By the DSA.
The state democratic party apparatus cut him off when he refused to follow their reporting rules, he knew that the reports would end up in the hands of his opponent.

He won anyway, he is a great guy, and we wish him the best.

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:23 PM

38. Exactly.

The problems you just described are part of the same mentality I'm seeing in some of the comments above: if you're a little too far to the left, you must be an infiltrator and therefore rejected.

We'll need diversity of viewpoints - within the progressive spectrum, ideally - if we're to keep winning like we did last week.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:26 PM

40. I see nothing too "far" about his positions. Nothing. Many/most Dems stand for and with the same.

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:32 PM

43. Same here.

But as you know, some Democrats are having a hard time with the social democrat wing of the party.

Still others have become much too distrustful of Democrats they see as outsiders in some way.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:27 PM

41. It's sad when someone who simply believes

And preaches the gospel of the new deal is considered far left. Perhaps it's just a misunderstanding, I hope so.

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:33 PM

45. I feel exactly the same way.

Plus, this is the very wing of the party that's generating the most interest and passion. We need them just as much as the 'establishment' figures (which we definitely need too).

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Response to sandensea (Reply #45)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:42 PM

48. When the Independent Socialist labeled Plan Parenthood as 'establishment' I have not been too

impressed with the desire to label to create divide.

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #48)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:52 PM

54. The old friendly fire problem.

From time to time people get dissed and feelings get hurt. In politics, as you know, there's usually more friction among allies than opponents.

It's unfortunate; but it comes with the territory.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:56 PM

57. I have more of an issue with propaganda for a win at our expense.

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:16 AM

101. The new deal was many many years ago...time to work to solve the problems of our day.

Consider that what came out of Roosevelt administration that has lasted is social security...we need more than that...It was Johnson who got civil rights and Medicaid through...while Roosevelt was a good president and saved our economy (as did President Obama), we should look to the future not the past. Few can remember Roosevelt and couldn't name a policy he promoted.

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:15 PM

86. Those are the right wing supporting assholes doing the GOP's

job by spreading truly stupid shit against the Dmocratic candidate for governor, right?

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Response to Ninsianna (Reply #86)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 08:38 PM

94. Unfortunately you are completely mistaken about this.

You are referring to some group calling itself "Democracy for America" or perhaps "DFA" maybe.

I suggest you google the DSA to see what they are about. They helped elect a number of very good solid Dems in Va on this last go round. I fully support them.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 10:27 AM

58. Is that a new party in Virginia?

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Response to George II (Reply #58)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:23 PM

59. No. He ran (and won) as a Democrat.

He happens to hold social democratic views - like close to half of all Democrats do.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:41 PM

60. Working class and Unions. The strong, vast majority of the Democratic Party and our position.

Is now owned and defined as Democratic Socialist? When did that happen?

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:21 PM

66. Its just JPR angst

It will blow over

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Response to SandyZ (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:27 PM

71. Plenty of Democratic voters hold socialist or close-to-socialist views. I'm one of them.

 

And you can goddamn bet that there a hell of a lot more than just the Millennial Democratic voters like me who have (democratic) socialist views. After all, Bernie Sanders received 13 million votes last year in the Democratic Party's presidential primaries. Do you seriously believe that all of those were Russia-sponsored trolls or Bernie Bro assholes or something?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #71)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:10 PM

83. Jobs and unions. That covers about all in the Democratic Party.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #71)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:30 PM

89. And you can also take it to the bank that Millenial Dems like the rest of us see what the DSA

Is about and reject that misogynistic, divisive shit. Apparently people forget that young college grads, and our older siblings are not as blind, stupid or ignorant as those people who mistook a political campaign for a series of raves insist we are when they erase us and attempt to speak for us. These kids need to actually try learning something in undergrad and high school and learn to check their sources, so many are still spouting Russian idiocy sourced directly from Putin.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:39 PM

76. That sort of confirms my thinking - but all of a sudden people (not necessarily you) have decided...

....to assign the word "socialist" to many Democrats, i.e., "Democratic socialist". In many cases the word "socialist" is redundant.

The Democratic Party is having a very good year at the ballot box. I hope we continue this through next November. It could bring a speedy end to "our long national nightmare".

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:07 PM

61. Don't panic, y'all. Having been inspired by Bernie Sanders...

...is not the same thing as being Bernie Sanders.

I would hope that more of us embrace the label of Democratic socialism.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #61)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:19 PM

64. Loyalty to the most powerful members of the Democratic Party trumps principle for some.

 

Sad, but not surprising at this point.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 06:20 AM

96. Exactly what principle is being trumped?

There are many principled Democrats who do not lean towards socialism.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #61)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:36 PM

90. Why? Simply being educated about what the Democratic Party is and has been

Should really enough, why all these new labels from the neophytes just waking up to what Democrats, liberals and progressives have always been about?

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Response to Ninsianna (Reply #90)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:39 PM

91. All I am hearing are policy of the Democratic Party.

I gotta tell you, this strategy is a new one, in the grand scale it is being implemented.

I am waiting for the clarity of what exactly would make that Democratic Socialist. It has to be more than supporting unions. Surely.

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Response to Ninsianna (Reply #90)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:04 AM

98. Creeping corporatism still keeps socialism a dirty word.

Emphasizing that collectivism beats corporatism can be a winning message, IMO.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #98)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:08 AM

99. Any example of where it was?

In the last 150 years? Anywhere in the world?

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Response to Orsino (Reply #98)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:11 AM

100. Not in this country.

Dream on.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #100)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:20 AM

102. Are you saying that socialism is a dirty word that should be kept out of Dem messaging? n/t

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Response to Orsino (Reply #102)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:36 AM

104. Messaging needs to be tailored to the State or district. In general, socialism works against

Democrats and allows the GOP to demonize. I don't believe there is support for socialism in many areas of this country.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #104)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 11:12 AM

110. I cannot completely disagree...

...but the basic fact of socialism is that our governments tax us in order to provide services. We shouldn't run from that tale, but should be talking about what can and should be done with revenues. Could be an incredibly good contrast with the GOP's plans to tax us to fund cuts benefitting the wealthy.

We could be selling our own tax cuts that would make the code more progressive, guaranteeing minimum cuts to certain levels of household income, rather than playing the Republican "average" game. The opposition is also selling socialism, but are concentrating the benefits where they aren't needed. There is a hunger for taxing the rich;this is messaging that can work, depending on how it's done.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #110)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 02:54 PM

112. You can't call it socialism for the same reason we are now 'progressives' and not 'liberals'. The

term 'socialism' has a negative connotation. It just does...talk about tax reform...and it is still political suicide to talk of raising taxes in this country.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:19 PM

65. K&R! Let's keep it up!

 

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:40 PM

77. Was His A Convenient Use Of The Letter D After His Name

to help himself get elected?

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Response to Me. (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:38 AM

105. Yes, absolutely... I doubt half the folks that voted for him even knew of his association with the

Socialist party...we have a two party system. Third parties particularly socialist parties don't fare well in our system. But he ran as a Democrat and will remain a Democrat or so I heard.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #105)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:59 AM

107. Funny How That D After Your Name Will Get You Elected

No wonder people want to co-opt it.

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Response to Me. (Reply #107)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 02:56 PM

114. Exactly. They can't run as a socialist because they will damn well lose.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #105)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 11:07 AM

108. There have been socialists in the Democratic Party for decades.

There have been Democratic congress members who were very favorable toward socialism or non-party socialist organizations. Ron Dellums was one. Being a socialist is not inconsistent with being an adherent of the Democratic Party.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #108)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 02:55 PM

113. That is completely meaningless to me. Socialism still has a bad rep...and we need more than

Democratic votes in order to win.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #113)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 07:04 PM

119. Got it.

I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree on the subject. Personally, while I have nothing against the concept of socialism, I prefer to talk about policy rather than a concept.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #119)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 07:49 AM

123. You are exactly correct...lets not help the GOP demonize us...and socialism is a loaded term.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #108)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:48 PM

116. But They Don't Run As Socialists Do They?

THat D is prominent behind their names

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Response to Me. (Reply #116)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 07:02 PM

118. I dont get the point.

I am gay. If I ran for office as a Democrat, I’m running for office as a gay man who is a Democrat. I can also be a socialist, or a Buddhist, for instance. These things are not mutually exclusive. Someone can be an adherent of the Democratic Party and also be a socialist.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #118)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 07:17 PM

120. Nice Try At Distraction

This has nothing to do with orientation or religion. MOst of the people who claim ardent socialism as their preferred politics don't run as such or declare their true belief. That could be considered hypocritical. it's about honesty when running for office. But they aren't clear about their =beliefs because they likely feel it would work against them so they hook a D on. I'll be interested to see if those who do. As we already know, some use the convenience of the D then drop it when it no longer suits their purpose.

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Response to Me. (Reply #120)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 07:28 PM

121. Ok. Im giving my viewpoint.

I don’t see any incompatibility between socialist politics and Democratic Party adherence. Others may disagree.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #121)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 07:46 PM

122. Disagreement Is Part Of Politics

Potato/potatoe

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:40 AM

106. 2 won in Allegheny Co

One ousted Ron Costa, brother of state legislator Dom Costa.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 11:10 AM

109. Key point in text: "a politics that pushes to the left on economic and social policy."

This is about policy and not just ideology. Some Democrats support making taxation much more progressive, others oppose this. Some Democrats support drastically cutting military spending, others oppose this. This is definitely a matter of policy.

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Response to sandensea (Original post)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 12:34 PM

111. Great to hear

That is what Bernie's campaign was about. It can't just be about him. He is getting up there in age and we need a new generation. We should never try to eliminate "centrists" from the party, but I'd love if we moved the needle way left.

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