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Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:00 PM Nov 2017

Remember when Republicans would say "There's no such thing as a free lunch"?

That's how they are trying to sell their1% enrichment tax cut plan however. They pretend they are giving away free money to the middle class, and that everyone magically gets money in their pockets without anything of value being sold to get it. Of course the big lie is that this plan has anything to do with the middle class, many of us will have our taxes raised as a result of this "reform" of tax codes. But even if it were true, even if millions of "average Americans" got an extra hundred dollars a month to spend as a result of them, there is nothing painless about these tax cuts.

This is no free lunch. Yes the cuts would add over 1.5 trillion dollars to the deficit. Democrats are already all over that, and the increase in taxes that some will face - but it's not just that. It's not just the fact that those in power today are burdening America's young with a much bigger obligation to repay America's creditors with interest over the course of their full lifetimes. Actually it is far more basic, far more profound than even those outrages. It is about drowning a shrunken government in a bathtub after using it to redistribute wealth to those who already have almost all of it.

Even the rich need some government services. They need a military to keep their oversees investments safe for example. They need legislators they can legally bribe using election laws that they've paid for to be written.They even need tax collectors who collect higher percentages of income from those who labor for wages rather than from those who earn money off of money already accumulated to accomplish the afore mentioned redistribution. They need enough government paid for domestic security to prevent pitchfork mobs from advancing on them unimpended. They meed first responders to protect their properties from fires and from terrorists. They need their government subsidies, and their huge government contracts, and courts to fill their private prisons.

But the rest of us need government much more. We need government to survive. Most Republicans WANT to increase the deficit, although of course they don't admit it. They want every pretense possible to shrink the size of government. And after they've looted the Federal Treasury there's no excuse that they will be happier to give than to say we can't afford the spending. They already say it now, but they will soon be saying it louder. We can't afford to pay for Pell grants. We can't afford to pay for mass transit. We can't afford to pay for nursing homes. We can't afford to be so "generous" with what they like to call "entitlements". If schools in most of America rot that won't effect the private schools of the wealthy, who will pay the bills to educate their own young with just part of the tax giveaways they are now pushing through this Congress. If there is lead leeching from their own water pipes, they can write a check to pay for immediately replacing them. If their children develop special needs they can hire the staff needed to attend to them.

Even if some middle class family in Ohio gets an extra hundred dollars a month to hold onto - how far will that stretch when grandma needs a nursing home that today is paid for by Medicaid? When push comes to shove the government paid for economic safety net is the only meaningful insurance policy that most Americans can turn to when things significantly go wrong. How much is keeping that intact worth to most Americans, let alone Pell grants, decent schools, and roads that don't break axles? Is that worth a hundred dollars a month to a family of four? How much is blood money ever worth?

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Remember when Republicans would say "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Nov 2017 OP
"how far will that stretch when grandma needs a nursing home marybourg Nov 2017 #1
All true Tom Rinaldo Nov 2017 #2
You have just posted the real Wellstone ruled Nov 2017 #3
Yep. Republicans divide to conquor. Tom Rinaldo Nov 2017 #6
The ugly truth is MosheFeingold Nov 2017 #4
That is subtle, but telling. Tom Rinaldo Nov 2017 #5
This method has been floating around since the Sixties Wellstone ruled Nov 2017 #7
It is MosheFeingold Nov 2017 #8
Deficit's themselves are not the problem. Wellstone ruled Nov 2017 #9

marybourg

(12,620 posts)
1. "how far will that stretch when grandma needs a nursing home
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:25 PM
Nov 2017

that today is paid for by Medicaid?"

Actually grandma and grandpa might be able to afford to pay for the nursing home for grandma by themselves if they could just deduct the $50,000-98,000 in costs from their taxes, to counterbalance the tax they must pay as they sell off their assets to create income. Come to think about it, if mom and pop could continue to deduct premiums for long term care insurance, they won't need Medicaid either.

Is the GOP trying to promote such self-sufficiency by continuing the medical deduction? Are you kidding? When there are billionaires in need of more dollars to stuff into their off-shore accounts?

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
2. All true
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:48 PM
Nov 2017

There is not a shred of ideological consistency to their views other than a belief that those with money deserve more and those without it deserve their fate.

I just get pissed that they are callous enough to dangle the promise of a few dollars in front of those who are struggling as crumbs off their table in return for hobbling or dismantling the programs the rich can do without, but the rest of us can't.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
3. You have just posted the real
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:18 PM
Nov 2017

fact as how our National System of taking care of our Elderly works. Having been involved with two sets of Elderly Parents both being dependent on Medical Care with Cancer and Work related Injuries which came back to haunt. You end up liquidating everything saleable,cleaning out savings accounts and hoping the Federal Paper work as well as State Paperwork makes it through the system in a timely manner.

Here is the major kicker,that is the sixty month claw-back of Assets used as gifts to Children and Siblings in order to transfer Cash Assets. That is the real ugly. Jokingly called the five death plan.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
6. Yep. Republicans divide to conquor.
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:36 PM
Nov 2017

Part of that strategy is to play on class and racial fear in regards to so called "government handouts". The temporarily able bodied and employed become convinced that programs like Medicaid are mainly there for the lazy poor and minorities to mooch off of them.If Republicans get their way with programs like Medicaid, by the time the typical brain washed "middle class" voter needs them, they will no longer be there to serve their critical needs.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
4. The ugly truth is
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:31 PM
Nov 2017

They have figured out that deficit spending is essentially a flat (non-progressive) tax.

The fed buys (and holds) most of the debt. This makes it essentially the equivalent of printing money -- which is inflationary -- and a tax on income, sales in cash, fixed government benefits (assuming a lag in the index) and cash savers.

People who own stuff are only indirectly affected.

It's invisible (mostly) because we are facing deflationary pressure in consumer goods and commodities due to economic efficiency. Things that you can't make more of (e.g., land, certain art, certain classic cars) skyrocket.

It's a subtle economic point.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
5. That is subtle, but telling.
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:37 PM
Nov 2017

That aspect slipped right by me, and usually I catch stuff like that. Thanks for fleshing that out.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
7. This method has been floating around since the Sixties
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:34 PM
Nov 2017

with the New Moral Majority. And to think,these are the same folks who are getting smacked today.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
8. It is
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:43 PM
Nov 2017

And one of the reason I've battled against deficit spending --- a tax both Republicans and Democrats are in love with, in that it is a largely invisible tax to most people.

I've actually never understood why the Republicans even pretended to be deficit hawks. You'd think they'd be in love with it, as it is not progressive at all.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
9. Deficit's themselves are not the problem.
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:14 PM
Nov 2017

There are times when the use of deficits will stimulate the economic well being of our Nation. The real thing that needs to be done is,first get a handle on Drug costs,next is fixing the cost structure of Care Facilities. And lastly,Taxing the Wealthy,never in my lifetime have I ever pissed or moaned about how much I paid in Income Tax. It is just part of a Progressive Society,the only grip is,the Mega Earners not paying their fair share.

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