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Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:24 AM

Joe Biden has been great...but NO, he should not run for president.

This isn't about Joe as a person or a political figure at all.

It's about us and what we need to do to win.

More than anything else, while we stand for many good things, we need to move on as a party, connecting with the best of the spirit of the times while finding new ways to fight for what we already fight for.

We can't win if our nominee is OLDER than Trump and if our strategy is "run the exact same campaign again".

We need to be the party of change and renewal, about being the voice of the next generation in politics.

We need to about the future, about what happens next.



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Reply Joe Biden has been great...but NO, he should not run for president. (Original post)
Ken Burch Nov 13 OP
RDANGELO Nov 13 #1
Eyeball_Kid Nov 13 #2
delisen Nov 13 #21
Irish_Dem Nov 13 #26
bettyellen Nov 13 #121
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #177
bettyellen Thursday #180
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #183
DesertRat Friday #190
StevieM Nov 13 #38
lunamagica Nov 13 #58
The Polack MSgt Thursday #171
Jakes Progress Nov 13 #79
StevieM Wednesday #166
Jakes Progress Friday #191
Loki Liesmith 19 hrs ago #202
Eliot Rosewater Nov 13 #101
StevieM Wednesday #167
Post removed Wednesday #170
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #178
Egnever Wednesday #169
ismnotwasm Friday #189
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #176
pnwmom Sunday #198
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #3
Ken Burch Nov 13 #12
NCTraveler Nov 13 #19
FSogol Nov 13 #44
NurseJackie Nov 13 #60
Ken Burch Nov 13 #56
NCTraveler Nov 13 #61
Ken Burch Nov 13 #63
NurseJackie Nov 13 #65
NCTraveler Nov 13 #71
Ken Burch Nov 13 #74
NCTraveler Nov 13 #77
Ken Burch Nov 13 #109
moda253 Tuesday #148
Ken Burch Tuesday #152
sheshe2 Nov 13 #130
Ken Burch Nov 13 #135
moda253 Tuesday #149
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #179
Ken Burch Thursday #181
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #184
NurseJackie Nov 13 #75
Demsrule86 Nov 13 #78
Ken Burch Nov 13 #84
sheshe2 Nov 13 #137
Ken Burch Nov 13 #141
Eliot Rosewater Tuesday #151
heaven05 Tuesday #155
sheshe2 Tuesday #159
heaven05 Tuesday #161
StevieM Wednesday #168
Ken Burch Thursday #173
StevieM Thursday #174
Ken Burch Thursday #175
StevieM Thursday #185
Ken Burch Thursday #186
StevieM Thursday #187
samnsara Nov 13 #108
NurseJackie Nov 13 #67
Gothmog Nov 13 #73
Ken Burch Nov 13 #85
Gothmog Nov 13 #87
Eliot Rosewater Nov 13 #104
heaven05 Tuesday #157
NCTraveler Tuesday #158
heaven05 Tuesday #160
The Polack MSgt Thursday #172
NurseJackie Nov 13 #24
BannonsLiver Nov 13 #39
Ken Burch Nov 13 #62
BannonsLiver Nov 13 #69
Ken Burch Nov 13 #89
sheshe2 Nov 13 #86
Ken Burch Nov 13 #88
sheshe2 Nov 13 #97
Eliot Rosewater Nov 13 #99
heaven05 Tuesday #156
Ken Burch Nov 13 #103
sheshe2 Nov 13 #125
Ken Burch Nov 13 #133
moda253 Tuesday #150
Ken Burch Tuesday #153
muriel_volestrangler Nov 13 #112
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #114
JI7 Nov 13 #4
Ken Burch Nov 13 #8
NurseJackie Nov 13 #25
DFW Nov 13 #5
delisen Nov 13 #6
Ken Burch Nov 13 #7
sheshe2 Nov 13 #92
Ken Burch Nov 13 #98
Lee-Lee Nov 13 #9
oberliner Nov 13 #11
Cosmocat Nov 13 #22
EffieBlack Nov 13 #46
Orsino Tuesday #146
oberliner Nov 13 #10
Ken Burch Nov 13 #13
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #16
Ken Burch Nov 13 #107
NurseJackie Nov 13 #110
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #113
oberliner Nov 13 #17
NurseJackie Nov 13 #28
guillaumeb Nov 13 #126
NurseJackie Nov 13 #140
guillaumeb Nov 13 #142
ehrnst Tuesday #144
guillaumeb Tuesday #147
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #15
Jakes Progress Nov 13 #82
Cosmocat Nov 13 #14
NCTraveler Nov 13 #18
BannonsLiver Nov 13 #41
NCTraveler Nov 13 #42
Ken Burch Nov 13 #50
NCTraveler Nov 13 #54
NurseJackie Nov 13 #57
Ken Burch Nov 13 #66
NurseJackie Nov 13 #70
NCTraveler Nov 13 #72
Ken Burch Nov 13 #90
NCTraveler Nov 13 #91
Ken Burch Nov 13 #93
NCTraveler Nov 13 #95
Ken Burch Nov 13 #105
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #122
Ken Burch Nov 13 #124
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #127
NurseJackie Nov 13 #59
NCTraveler Nov 13 #20
Ken Burch Nov 13 #52
NurseJackie Nov 13 #55
cally Nov 13 #23
Irish_Dem Nov 13 #27
ollie10 Nov 13 #29
left-of-center2012 Nov 13 #30
emulatorloo Nov 13 #131
Denis 11 Nov 13 #31
Demsrule86 Nov 13 #80
stevenleser Sunday #194
Denis 11 Sunday #199
randr Nov 13 #32
WheelWalker Nov 13 #34
WheelWalker Nov 13 #33
COLGATE4 Nov 13 #35
Achilleaze Nov 13 #36
karynnj Nov 13 #37
moriah Nov 13 #40
Atman Nov 13 #43
bdamomma Nov 13 #64
Demsrule86 Nov 13 #81
emulatorloo Nov 13 #134
Gothmog Nov 13 #45
EffieBlack Nov 13 #47
Demsrule86 Nov 13 #83
EffieBlack Tuesday #162
Demsrule86 Wednesday #163
EffieBlack Wednesday #164
Demsrule86 Saturday #192
EffieBlack Sunday #193
Demsrule86 19 hrs ago #200
Iggo Nov 13 #48
Sunlei Nov 13 #49
Ken Burch Nov 13 #111
Sunlei Nov 13 #138
joshcryer Nov 13 #51
treestar Nov 13 #53
bdamomma Nov 13 #68
Demsrule86 Nov 13 #76
betsuni Nov 13 #94
NurseJackie Nov 13 #102
TexasTowelie Nov 13 #128
sheshe2 Nov 13 #139
bathroommonkey76 Nov 13 #96
lunamagica Nov 13 #116
bathroommonkey76 Nov 13 #117
lunamagica Nov 13 #118
bathroommonkey76 Nov 13 #119
lunamagica Nov 13 #120
StevieM Wednesday #165
Eliot Rosewater Nov 13 #100
samnsara Nov 13 #106
ClarendonDem Nov 13 #115
Awsi Dooger Nov 13 #123
guillaumeb Nov 13 #129
Ken Burch Nov 13 #136
emulatorloo Nov 13 #132
blitzen Nov 13 #143
ehrnst Tuesday #145
LiberalFighter Tuesday #154
jalan48 Thursday #182
yurbud Thursday #188
stevenleser Sunday #195
Bucky Sunday #196
budkin Sunday #197
vlyons 19 hrs ago #201

Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:02 AM

1. I respectfully disagree.

Hillary lost because there were just too many people outside the Democratic Party that just didn't trust her. People like Joe because he is authentic. There are already polls showing that he would beat Trump by double digits. He would be a good candidate because he has appeal outside of the party.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:06 AM

2. Biden is indeed a good choice... BUT...

His age IS a factor. And I'm saying this as a senior myself. We need to set our sights on younger candidates with as strong a core set of beliefs as Joe Biden. They're out there. And they're charismatic and effective. And they will appeal more to a younger generation of voters.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:24 AM

21. Now that we everyone has seen Trump in office

and we have a special prosecutor bringing indictments, and news about Russian interference in U S elections is not being suppressed by government , and news about social media complicity is being revealed, and the Republican Party agenda on health care is known and unpopular, and the Republican tax plan is being revealed--Democrats seem much more popular in general.

Moreover, the left that found Clinton unacceptable due to her Iraq War resolution vote, have generally never held Biden, Edwards, or Kerry accountable for their same votes.

Those who opposed Clinton due to "Wall St" never raise the issue of Biden and the banking credit card industry-he has worked hard for the banks and been successful in promoting their agenda.

---but I don't believe in rewarding the double standard which has ( become like a strait jacket for half the population)or acquiescing to prejudice-so my work will be for female candidates.

That long and exclusive list of male candidates and presidents has not brought us to the equality we all need for surviving and prospering in the modern world.

I think polls at this stage are worthless but expect that many politicians will see opportunity in the new circumstances.

I am not opposed to Biden because of his age but do not find that he is especially authentic. He just hasn't been called to account on several important issues.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:36 AM

26. I agree, America is going to want a known commodity. A father figure to heal the nation.

Biden is perfect.
He can serve for four years and let a rising star take over.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:41 PM

121. Women still don't trust him after how he treated Anita Hill. And he'd need women.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #121)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 07:57 PM

177. What did Joe do?

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #177)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:09 PM

180. Wow, if you don't know I'm not going to tell you. The whole thing was an embarrassment and you need

To do your own research.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #180)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:14 PM

183. Wow, okay... no need to be rude about it. I didn't remember there being an issue there...

and thought you could enlighten me, with maybe a one sentence summary. No worries, I'll do my "own research" and remember not to trouble you in the future. My apologies.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #121)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 08:53 AM

190. I agree. nt

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:14 AM

38. They trusted her a lot just a few years earlier. Then came the non-stop smear campaign, which would

have happened to any Democrat who had such a big lead that they were considered an overwhelming frontrunner for years.

Admittedly, HRC had one big things going against her that Biden would not have: She's a woman. Sexism is a powerful weapon when you are trying to smear someone.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:32 PM

58. So his vote for the Iraq war and his support for banks would not matter in his case...Interesting

And I don't find him to be that "authentic"

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 03:06 PM

171. I am a fan a Joe Biden, but your point is well made

His support for policies or actions that match up with HRC's aren't an issue but HER positions and actions are?

Well, it's called a glass ceiling because you can see right through it

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:09 PM

79. Polls? Please.

Are those the same polls that said Hillary would walk away with the election? The same ones who said that trump wouldn't make it past the first state primary?

Gosh. Making a living out of hind-sight is a cool job.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #79)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 08:17 PM

166. The polls were right, she was going to win decisively. Then the polls changed after Comey rigged

the election.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #166)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 12:10 PM

191. Just as

they would change if Biden were the nominee. You can use polls to "prove" any position.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #79)

Mon Nov 20, 2017, 07:48 AM

202. National polls were on the money

And the poll average never showed her walking away with it.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:26 PM

101. People didnt trust Hillary because of the billion dollar industry, 25 yrs old, partially from Russia

bashing her with lies.

Constant LIES.

If the right, some progressives, and Russia does that to Santa Claus, he loses too.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #101)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 08:18 PM

167. The lies told by the corrupt FBI were a bigger factor than all of those things put together IMO.

This was Comey's race, from start to finish.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #101)


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #101)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:00 PM

178. Sorry, but Santa is untouchable... please don't besmirch his name.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 08:54 PM

169. I am in the Democratic party

And I don't trust her.

I voted for her despite my misgivings.

Trump was that much worse but had they run a reasonable candidate while I would have likely still pulled the lever for her it would not have been nearly as easy.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #169)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 08:52 AM

189. Huh.

What do you base this “distrust” of Hillary Clinton on?

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 07:55 PM

176. Joe Biden, though not my top choice, IS authentic and has earned the right.

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Response to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 08:34 PM

198. Millions of middle aged and older women remember the Anita Hill hearings and have zero enthusiasm

for his candidacy. He was Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and could have done much, much more to keep Clarence Thomas off the Supreme Court.

Instead, he allowed Thomas to rebut her testimony and smear her character before he allowed Anita to deliver her statement. And he allowed testimony from someone who claimed Anita had erotomania and failed to call three witnesses who were prepared to testify on Anita's behalf.

If we had had a stronger Chairman, Thomas might not be on the Supreme Court.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:12 AM

3. That decision belongs to Joe Biden.

Your post is also offensive because it is an example of ageism. Furthermore, you shouldn't be peddling the notion that Biden can't win solely because he is older than Trump. Let the voters decide.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:21 AM

12. It is his decision...doesn't mean other people can't express an opinion about it.

If we nominated him, what message does it send to voters other than "Democrats won't give the next generation as chance!"?

BTW, I'm going to be 57 next month, so I can't really be an ageist.


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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:51 AM

19. It wouldnt be a statement about the next generation at all.

Last edited Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:39 PM - Edit history (3)

The items can’t be connected as you are. It would mean he beat out the field of primary oppononemts. Very few would be shallow enough to turn it into a divisive generational thing as you are doing. Just more division from you. He hasn’t even entered the primary and your discussing how divisive it would be if he won. How far can one go to divide. This about covers it. Hypothetical, on top of another hypothetical, all while painting younger generations as ignorant, selfish and entitled.

Really bad form.

I wonder if this has been presented before?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029145137

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2396101

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511033764

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:05 PM

44. LOL, Part of an ongoing series! Collect them all.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #44)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:35 PM

60. HA! Good one! :-D

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:31 PM

56. Yes I said that about the Anita Hill issue.

I think I can say Joe was not a popular figure among women voters and pro-feminist men at that point. It's not as though everybody else had put the Thomas hearings aside.

And whatever I said, I worked for the Obama-Biden ticket, which proves I don't have it in for the guy

What I said then has nothing to do with the present...I just don't want us to lose by being the party of the past, and by staying with THIS generation while the next one doesn't get a chance until THEY'RE in their mid-to-late-sixties and it's too late for choosing them to represent anything new and different.

You've already decided to support the guy, haven't you?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #56)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:41 PM

61. "You've already decided to support the guy, haven't you? "

You don't even read what you are replying to. It's a shame. Just pull out the templates and fill in the words.

Those links were about a lot more than Anita. Of course you went there. It's a great "concern" of yours. You seem to have ignored the link that is to another op of yours that is damn near word for word what this one is. Clear template. Ohhh. Might be another link up there as well.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #61)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:46 PM

63. I sometimes use the same structure. That doesn't mean anything.

A lot of people repeat phraseology when they write.

I don't hate Joe. I just don't think he should run. Can you not see the difference between those two states of mind?

Are you saying that no one has the right to even question the idea of nominating any particular person?

Why does it matter to you what I say about the idea of Joe or anyone running for president now when we're three years away from when we should even be thinking about that?

It's a waste of time at this stage to talk up anyone as a presidential candidate until 2018 is over.

It was natural to assume you'd already decided to support the idea when you can't tolerate the idea of anybody saying he shouldn't be nominated.

I criticized Joe in the past. What I said on those occasions was felt by a LOT of folks. You know that.



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #63)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:51 PM

65. LOL! "It's a waste of time" ...

It's a waste of time at this stage to talk up anyone as a presidential candidate until 2018 is over.
By the same token, it's a WASTE OF TIME AT THIS STAGE to talk-down and neg someone as you're doing. So, why are you doing it?



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #63)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:15 PM

71. I have criticized Joe in the past as well.

On a much deeper level. I haven't waded in shallow waters to attack him like you have here.

"A lot of people repeat phraseology when they write. "

It's a template. Example.

June of this year.


Joe Biden, you're a great Dem, you'd be a good president...but please don't run.

Nothing against you as a person, but we need a clean break from the status quo.

We need a ticket who has a connection with the present, a sense of the future, and a willingness to defend our base WHILE connecting with those who COULD be part of that base.

We need someone NEW.

Especially if Trump doesn't run again(which is entirely possible)and the GOP nominates somebody twenty or even thirty years younger than you, which is a real possibility.

If we look like a party of the past in 2020, we will have no chance.

You've got many other roles to play, Joe(you and Hillary would both be excellent Supreme Court nominees), but, with full respect, this is not the best role you could play.

(And I say that to anyone else who has been a major Dem candidate in the recent past).


Ken Burch

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029145137

Today


Joe Biden has been great...but NO, he should not run for president.

This isn't about Joe as a person or a political figure at all.

It's about us and what we need to do to win.

More than anything else, while we stand for many good things, we need to move on as a party, connecting with the best of the spirit of the times while finding new ways to fight for what we already fight for.

We can't win if our nominee is OLDER than Trump and if our strategy is "run the exact same campaign again".

We need to be the party of change and renewal, about being the voice of the next generation in politics.

We need to about the future, about what happens next.


Ken Burch

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029836586

Then you go straight into deflection and dishonesty.

"when you can't tolerate the idea of anybody saying he shouldn't be nominated. "

You are saying repeatedly that he shouldn't run. Nothing to do with being nominated. You are now truly changing your argument. Hopefully because you see it needs to be changed. As usual, seven or eight more edits and we will get to what was really meant.

"I don't hate Joe. I just don't think he should run."

"Are you saying that no one has the right to even question the idea of nominating any particular person? "

You literally change mid thought. I can't keep up. It is fun.

"It's a waste of time at this stage to talk up anyone as a presidential candidate until 2018 is over."

Never too early for you to talk bad about possible popular Democratic entrants.



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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #71)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:56 PM

74. I'm not "talking bad" about anyone, and I don't have a template

I always say what I really mean.

It's a coincidence that I repeat phrases and structure sometimes.

Joe Biden is a good person as a senator.

He tried for the presidency twice, it didn't go anywhere.

That should have put the idea of him running again to rest and he should just have stayed in the Senate.

The things I said about Anita Hill were felt by a huge number of people at the time.

And what I'm actually saying is we shouldn't be discussing the idea of ANYBODY running for president yet. It's takes us away from the need to work for victory in 2018.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #74)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:05 PM

77. There goes Anita again. Again. Again.

It wasn't even in the post you replied to.

This is great.

The template is there for all to see.

"I always say what I really mean. "

You have changed in this conversation alone.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #77)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:34 PM

109. You're acting like I'm lying or something.

Or that I'm a hypocrite or something.

What is your goal here?

Why are you doing this?

I've done nothing that was ever directed towards you as a person.




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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #109)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 11:39 AM

148. Just stop bashing democrats.

It is one thing to say what you support or what you might have concerns with but you are tearing down potential candidates and sowing negativity within our ranks here. Not cool.

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Response to moda253 (Reply #148)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:01 PM

152. I'm not. I said nothing negative about Joe.

It was simply a comment about where we should be going as a party.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #74)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:48 PM

130. Quote "I always say what I really mean."

Then why do you edit your posts so many times?

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #130)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:00 PM

135. for several reasons

1) I realize I could have phrased something better;
2) In acknowledgment that another poster raised a valid point;
3) As a fallible human being, I make mistakes.

It's never done with dishonest intent.


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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #135)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 11:42 AM

149. If another poster raised a valid point...

If another poster raised a valid point, then you acknowledge that fucking point then. You don't go back and edit your previous post to include that person's point in your own post that you missed. Give some credit to the person that made you think where you failed to do so. Your fellow posters here deserve that credit. It's called good conversation. Face to face you don't get to go back and edit what you said 10 seconds ago. Treat this place the same.

Acknowledge your mistakes in turn rather than re-writing your own history. One thing to edit your typo's or to go back and include a link. But to change what you actually said is dishonest.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #135)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:07 PM

179. I believe you... I'm always struck by the "mindreaders" here who cannot look past simple mistakes...

and infer some malintent. You'd think, since we're all sposed to be on the same team, we could cut each other just a lil' slack!

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #179)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:10 PM

181. thanks.

And if people ARE posting here, it should simply be assumed that they've been involved in a lot of practical, pragmatic work in "the real world" and have done as much work involving compromise as anyone else.

And that their basic intentions are honorable and positive.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #181)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:19 PM

184. Exactly!! And you're welcome.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #71)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:57 PM

75. Wow! And...



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #56)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:06 PM

78. I love Joe, and I am a woman. If he is the nominee, I will happily vote for him.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #78)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:14 PM

84. And I'll support him if he's nominated.

Didn't say I wouldn't.

But I believe our future as a party depends on giving the next generation a chance before its too late.

We can't make all the possible candidates we have who are in their forties and fifties wait until their in their sixties before they get a chance, until they are set in their ways.

Besides, what is the point of trying to talk up ANY presidential candidates right now? Why not focus solely on 2018? If we do that, I think figures of presidential stature will naturally emerge in the process.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #84)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:39 PM

137. I believe.

But I believe our future as a party depends on giving the next generation a chance before its too late.



I believe the future of our party is to end the divisive rhetoric from the ones that are not from our party.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #137)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:31 PM

141. It's not possible to just silence people.

And we can't stop whatever it is that you see as divisive be shutting out people if they talk about the party but aren't registered Dems.

(Btw, I AM a Dem and seek to end division through inclusion).

My objective has been to grow the party in all the ways it can be grown...through de-suppressing suppressed voters and finding ways to connect with voters that could BE Dems...and I don't think this would require us to do anything that would betray the base.

That was what the OP's that were so automatically attacked were about...not criticism of any public figure, not any intent to relitigate or refight anything at all, but simply about taking lessons and making constructive changes based on those lessons.

They were truly intended to be about the future and to help this party.


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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #137)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 12:57 PM

151. It is remarkable to watch the world spinning out of control

and people on the alleged left STILL debating purity.

Folks like you and me might just have to accept that there is nothing we can do, they are gonna do this, they are gonna cause problems, and the bad guys are gonna profit from it.

AT some point I might STOP supporting financially and physically and CARING about these people causing all these problems. They wont like that, because some of us DEMOCRATS actually make all continued existence possible by keeping the money flowing and work happening.

But I have to be VERY careful, my support of the D party here at this site often gets me in trouble. I am tired of arguing about why I should be able to UNCONDITIONALLY support the party.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #137)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:25 PM

155. Too many people here

Last edited Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:34 AM - Edit history (1)

are stuck in the machinery of times that have passed. The future does belong to the younger generation coming along...the texas Castro brothers, Kamala Harris and any other young, progressive liberals that will boost our party, not divide and tear it down as has happened recently. I like Biden, yet as advisor only now, HRC, advisor, Obama, already advising and helping. Those calling for you to shut up are way off base and just have to look in the mirror to understand who should be quiet and go sit in the corner...2016 and it's candidates representing our party as mainstream candidates and those from minor wing/groups within our party, with minor leaders, should help to get a new generation of candidates up and running, 2018-20, instead of living on past FAILED, DIVISIVE policies.

I am with you sheshe2, time for new fresh blood in this Party to lead.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #155)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 03:54 PM

159. Dear Goddess...

We have the Senate today holding hearings about the President starting a nuclear war...seriously that is where we are...on the brink of war.

Yet I see thread after thread that attempt to cause division among Democrats. Anyone can run, that is their right, however like you I do wish new energy, ideas and enthusiasm that the likes of the Castro brothers, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris and others can bring to our party and to our supporters. The advisors or mentors that you mentioned will be crucial in helping us elect strong leaders in 2018 and 2020. WE must win the Senate and or the House back in 2018. This is crucial to our survival and frankly the survival of the whole planet. We are the energy that can make this happen by, first and foremost coming together...unified and then getting off our collective asses and get out the vote.

If people do not realize what is at stake then they have not been paying attention, heaven.

2018 then 2020 GOTV

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #159)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 04:41 PM

161. ++

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #84)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 08:43 PM

168. I assume that Biden, Sanders and Warren will all run.

Last edited Thu Nov 16, 2017, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Ultimately, we will chose from about 15 candidates. Hopefully the party will unite behind whoever wins.

Here are the people who I think are quite likely to run (listed alphabetically):

Joe Biden
Corey Booker
Julian Castro
Eric Garcetti
Kirsten Gillibrand
Kamala Harris
John Hickenlooper
Eric Holder
Jason Kander
Amy Klobuchar
Mitch Landrieu
Chris Murphy
Martin O'Malley
Tim Ryan
Bernie Sanders
Tom Steyer
Elizabeth Warren

That is 17 candidates, the same number that ran on the GOP side in 2016.

I think that if Biden decides to run Deval Patrick will take a pass. If Biden sits the race out I expect Patrick to jump in.

I think Andrew Cuomo will sit the race out. I really like Jay Inslee, the governor of Washington, but he doesn't seem to be planning a run.

Speaking for myself, I am liking Tom Steyer more and more.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #168)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 05:00 PM

173. OK...but there shouldn't be any great push from above in the party

to make us treat any one candidate as so intrinsically superior to all others that we shouldn't even be HAVING a primary.

The nomination should always be decided in a real contest in which Dems in all parts of the country have a real say.

Just let it play out.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #173)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 05:24 PM

174. I agree but I would argue that nothing like that happened in 2016 either.

The only time I ever heard anyone talk about how "we shouldn't even be HAVING a primary" was when I heard Sanders and O'Malley supporters claiming it was happening.

Anyone who wanted to run in 2016 was welcome to. Nobody came under pressure not run. Biden may have been advised not to by the president, but it was up to him.

The reason the field was so thin in 2016 is because HRC had unprecedented poll numbers for years prior to the fake email scandal. Nobody gave her those numbers--she earned them.

I expect a full field in 2017. Maybe all 17 of the people I listed will run. Maybe 12 of them will make it to the Iowa Caucuses, 10 will make it to New Hampshire, 7 to Nevada and 6 will make it to South Carolina. Then the race may come down to 2 finalists as we head towards Super Tuesday.

I am surprised that you didn't comment on my list. I worked kind of hard putting it together. What do you think about that list of potential candidates?

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Response to StevieM (Reply #174)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 07:50 PM

175. It is a very interesting list, and I respect the work you put together in creating it.

It surprised me to see the mayors on there...we haven't generally had people in that office seeking the presidency(the last ones were Giuliani's brief effort in '08 for the GOP and John Lindsay briefly seeking the Democratic nomination back in '72). They could be interesting. What would you think of the idea of DiBlasio as a potential candidate as well?.

My hunch is that you might see Sanders OR Warren running, but not both-Bernie had tried to get Warren to run in '16 and only ran when she stayed and there was the real possibility of no one who was progressive on economic issues being in the race at all. That's why he hadn't established long-term relationships with the AA and Latinx communities-the guy never EXPECTED to be seeking national office, and because of that he hadn't thought of the importance of establishing such relationships.

Any of the Congresspeople or senators you listed could be a credible candidate.

Steyer could run...he would have the most work to do to establish himself as someone who would be pro-worker and committed to a serious anti-poverty effort, but he might pull it off.

I can see a plausible case for pretty much everyone on that list running for the nomination.



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #175)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:43 PM

185. The reason I listed the mayors is because they have both talked about running.

DeBlasio hasn't said anything about considering a run for president. That's why I didn't think to include him.

I like Tom Steyer and Jay Inslee because they both have good records on fighting climate change. I am sure that either one of them, if they were to run, would have a comprehensive plan for improving the lives of workers.

I see your point about Sanders and Warren in 2016 but I think 2020 will be a whole different situation. O'Malley supported Clinton in 2008 but still ran against her in 2016. I think Sanders is incredibly likely to run, regardless of what Warren does. I suppose it is possible that Warren takes a pass, but I think she is likely to run, regardless of what Bernie does.

Candidates tend not to sit out a race in deference to other candidates because they never know when that other person's candidacy might implode.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #185)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 09:00 PM

186. If Warren were to run, I would especially say Bernie should not run.

They will be essentially fighting for the same people, with Warren probably having some additional support because she has better connections with the Democratic base.

I can see Inslee as running mate material if Warren or Harris is nominated.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #186)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 09:14 PM

187. I see what you are saying. I just figure that a lot of candidates are going to overlap each other.

Remember the SNL skit from Halloween 2007? Biden and Dodd came dressed as the same person. Hillary joked that having two of them diminished the value of both.

Perhaps Biden and Holder would also appeal to some of the same people. But it is possible that they both run.

In the end we are trying to read politicians' minds. That is always a hard thing to do.

Even if Inslee doesn't run for president I could see him being a good VP.

I also like Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada as a running-mate, for a lot of different potential nominees.

With regards to Sanders and Biden: I just can't imagine either one of them not running. When you are doing well in the polls you tend to enter the race. The last candidate who was polling really well, but chose not to run, was Ted Kennedy in 1984. And Chappaquiddick was probably a big factor in that. It was still hurting him when he ran in 1980.

Bernie is the early leader in the polls and Biden is a decisive second. I expect them both to seek the nomination.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #56)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:31 PM

108. i watched the hearings as well and i didnt get that from joe..

..in fact that's when I started to notice him.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:55 PM

67. OMG! You're right! A pattern and a theme. (I wonder why.)

No I don't. Not really. I actually know WHY.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:32 PM

73. Thank you for posting this pattern

I would be happy to support Joe.

I brought back three Biden signs from the National Convention and another delegate grabbed the other. My son and I both framed our signs. I would be happy to support Biden if he decides to run

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #73)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:17 PM

85. It's not a pattern. I posted this because there were suddenly all these threads pushing for Biden

in the last couple of weeks.

We should only be talking about 2018 at this point.

And we need to give the next generation of possible candidates a chance now, because it will be too late to go to them when they're all in THEIR mid-to-late sixties or later.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #85)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:23 PM

87. The pattern is very very clear

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:28 PM

104. HOLY SHIT, I see an AGENDA

Thanks for doing this, I am NOT at ALL surprise by what you are disclosing.

Ya know what I wish, I wish DU was a place where ALL posters respected Democrats.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:37 PM

157. that whole

Last edited Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:30 AM - Edit history (1)

minor wing of our great Party has an itch that they can't and won't ever be able to scratch. We must support young, fresh ideas from younger Democrats not tainted by failed past attempts or candidates. I have always believed that. Whether k. burch is now trying to grow away from the minor wing and leader of that wing, we all know who that is, I guess...it's a new direction in which I agree.

If it is a ploy to gain acceptance here because of some of his troublesome comments touting a failed primary campaign and person as a savior of our Party, then it would fit k.b's m.o.

I do not see wanting new people LEADING our 2018-20 efforts to topple the RW administration running our country as a negative as some here may, no matter who want that, old guard like me who has been calling for a switch to a new generation rising in our ranks...or newcomers come lately.....who are just covering their asses.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #157)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:42 PM

158. Some of our best progressive politicians have lost previous campaigns and battles.

"not a part of failed past attempts or candidates."

That simply makes no sense. I guess it sounds good to some but there is no thought behind it.

Thanks for kicking and highlighting this post from Ken again. Transparency is a good thing.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #158)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 04:40 PM

160. I cannot understand

your response...I neither kick 0r rec anything by burch and it looks like you either now, I guess. I don't want the old failed policies or candidates from our past failed attempts to unseat the power of the repthugliKKKans. If what you got from anything I wrote is I support burch, so be it and you are wrong. I want fresh new ideas from fresh new Democratic candidates is all I'm saying. I do not appreciate you trying to make me a burch fan.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 03:09 PM

172. Nice



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:26 AM

24. LOL!

BTW, I'm going to be 57 next month, so I can't really be an ageist.
Oh, please. Yes, actually you can be ageist. Anyone can be ageist regardless of their own age.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:36 AM

39. It's created as a backdoor way for people to t-off on Biden.

A well-worn tactic, and completely transparent.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #39)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:43 PM

62. No. It's just fair comment about where are party should go.

Are we going to have situation in which ANY thread or any post questioning the idea of nominating ANYBODY is now verboten?

I like Joe. Just saying it's the time of the next generation.

And that nobody should be floating presidential candidates at a time when 2018 is what matters.

It never helps us at the polls to try to settle the nomination years early.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:56 PM

69. Hmmm

And that nobody should be floating presidential candidates at a time when 2018 is what matters.

Then why are you creating OPs that create discussion about 2020? Makes ZERO sense.

I like Joe.

I don't find that at all believable.

It never helps us at the polls to try to settle the nomination years early.

Nobody is doing that. It's a strawman.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #69)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:37 PM

89. I posted in response to lots of other threads pushing a Biden candidacy.

If those threads hadn't appeared, I wouldn't have started this one.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:20 PM

86. Yet here you are talking about 2020.

No. It's just fair comment about where are party should go.

Are we going to have situation in which ANY thread or any post questioning the idea of nominating ANYBODY is now verboten?



And that nobody should be floating presidential candidates at a time when 2018 is what matters.

It never helps us at the polls to try to settle the nomination years early.


Floating the idea who should NOT run in 2020 (YHO) is the same as talking about who SHOULD run in 2020.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #86)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:32 PM

88. In response to threads pushing a presidential candidate when we shouldn't be talking about that yet.

I wouldn't have said these things if there weren't tons of threads raising the subject.

It's not as though it's intolerable for me personally to ever list any year in which a presidential election is held.

Why are you so fixated on trying to shut me up any time I post anything?

I'm not the enemy and I don't think you and I actually disagree on any issues.

Once, we supported different candidates for the nomination.

After the convention, that difference ended and I campaigned for the nominee.

It's not my fault the current situation we're in exists.

I posted this thread because I want us to win.

And that means winning in 2018.

What is so terrible about wanting us to focus solely on 2018 until its over?



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #88)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:12 PM

97. Please.

In response to threads pushing a presidential candidate when we shouldn't be talking about that yet.

I wouldn't have said these things if there weren't tons of threads raising the subject.



Please link to the tons of posts that are about 2020.

It's not as though it's intolerable for me personally to ever list any year in which a presidential election is held.


What does this even mean??? Your point? You talk much about 2016 and some about 2020, yet never 2018.

Why are you so fixated on trying to shut me up any time I post anything?


Woah. Out of bounds, Ken. Way out of bounds. This is an open discussion board and I respond to your threads when I take issue with some of your posts. You just lashed out at me with a personal attack accusing me of being 'fixated' on you. You are accusing me of being a stalker that is trying to shut you up. I am appalled. Trust me Ken, I have far to many important family issues to deal with than 'stalking' you. Your comments to me were uncalled for. Just stop!







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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #97)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:21 PM

99. It is weird to me because to me you do this

show up at any election anywhere, vote for any democrat

period

end
of
story

Some of our people here seem fixated on details and losing the big picture...You valiantly debate them but I dont think they are listening.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #99)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:28 PM

156. not really

capable of listening when their words drown out logic and stifle progress within our Party.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #97)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:27 PM

103. You don't just "respond". You treat me like I'm your mortal enemy.

And I didn't call you a stalker or even think that of you.

As to family issues, I'm sincerely sorry you have those. Didn't know.

I'll ask it this way: I'm just one person posting here. Why do you care so much about what I post? I'm not a particularly horrible presence here, nor are any of the ideas I put out unduly damaging. I've spent a lot of time calling for dialog-for people who were in both camps in the past to talk to each other and let each other know what are good and bad ways to communicate.

And I've called for platform that we can all back that involves a blending of ideas to everybody's basic satisfaction.

How does THAT somehow equate to wanting to tear the party to shreds or throw whole groups of people under the bus?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #103)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:14 PM

125. You stated I am fixated on you.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029836586#post88

I am not. I respond on a message board.


And I didn't call you a stalker or even think that of you.


Okay...You said I am fixated on you.

fix·ate
[ˈfikˌsāt]
VERB
fixated (past tense) · fixated (past participle)

cause (someone) to acquire an obsessive attachment to someone or something:
"she has for some time been fixated on photography"
synonyms: obsessed with · preoccupied with · obsessive about · [more]
(fixate on/upon)
acquire an obsessive attachment to:
"it is important not to fixate on animosity"
(in Freudian theory) arrest (a person or their libidinal energy) at an immature stage, causing an obsessive attachment.

direct one's eyes toward:
"subjects fixated a central point" · [more]

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Fixated&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=b3a3330b97774968dd23570a491bb839&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=fixated&sc=8-7&qs=n&sk=&cvid=b3a3330b97774968dd23570a491bb839

I'll ask it this way: I'm just one person posting here. Why do you care so much about what I post? I'm not a particularly horrible presence here, nor are any of the ideas I put out unduly damaging. I've spent a lot of time calling for dialog-for people who were in both camps in the past to talk to each other and let each other know what are good and bad ways to communicate.


Wow.
I've spent a lot of time calling for dialog-for people who were in both camps in the past to talk to each other and let each other know what are good and bad ways to communicate.


Yet call us out for our message when we respond.

And I've called for platform that we can all back that involves a blending of ideas to everybody's basic satisfaction.


Here is the Democratic platform that Bernie helped to write...where are your issues here? Where have we failed? Where do we need to improve?

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #125)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:54 PM

133. OK, I withdraw the term fixated. I apologize for using a term

I never meant you were stalking me.

What should I describe it as when you seem to feel that whatever I post has to be treated as intolerable?

When it seems as though you are convinced I have a hidden anti-Democratic agenda?

When you act as though I'm actively working against you and what you support-virtually all of which I agree with?

I don't knowingly "call you out". I've asked that my threads not get an automatic "oh no you don't!" response.

All I'm meaning to do is to ask you not to accuse me of holding views I don't hold or of defending things I don't defend, or of supporting candidates I no longer support.

I've never dismissed the need to defend choice, or speak out against misogyny, racism, or anti-LGBTQ prejudice. I've never at any point said anything close to the disgusting idea that Democrats should take the side of white men against women, people of color, LGBTQ people and immigrants. I join you in denouncing anyone who says we should do such a stupid thing.

The last platform was pretty good(my only real issue with it was the ambiguity on the TPP. It was that, in my view, that prevented full party unity from being achieved and allowed Trump to be competitive in the Upper Midwest.

And I've also said that that ambiguity could have been neutralized if HRC had put lines in her acceptance speech clarifying that while the platform was phrased as it was, her position was actually the same as the primary.

I'd like to make sure we base all future fall campaigns on leading with the platform, rather than depending on attack ads.
The next platform could be maybe a bit more pro-union and antiwar(not pacifist, but getting out of the world's police role and pulling back on nukes and on military intervention in the Arab/Muslim world). And with that I'd like an outreach effort to the voters we needed but didn't win...not because I think it's ok that they didn't vote for us, but because I simply don't believe it ever works to shake a finger in people's faces for not voting for us-that what matters is bringing them in and getting them to vote, without betraying any of our current supporters, can be done and is much more likely to be achieved by positive means than by chewing people out.

To me, what matters

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 11:46 AM

150. You keep getting hammered by many here.

Maybe it's time to listen to what other people are telling you?

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Response to moda253 (Reply #150)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:16 PM

153. It can't be impermissible simply to say that a particular person shouldn't run for president.

I've also been saying Bernie shouldn't run again.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:45 PM

112. It seems it is roughly Biden's thinking too

Former Vice President Joe Biden said he is uncertain about a run for president in 2020, but indicated he’s looking for fresh blood to lead the Democratic Party back to the White House.

“I’ve done it a long time,” said Biden, who previously ran for president in 1988 and 2008, “and I’m just not sure it’s the appropriate thing for me to do.”
...
Biden suggested that if “no one steps up,” he’d be open to giving it another try. “I’m not doing anything to run,” he said. “I’m not taking names, I’m not raising money, I’m not talking to anybody, but something’s got to happen.”

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/biden-not-sure-202-run-appropriate

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #112)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:19 PM

114. I believe that is a measured response

and indicative of a statesman. There is nothing compelling Biden to make a decision three years before the election and two years before the first primary. I think that Joe will make a decision by spring of 2019 as to whether he will participate in the primaries so that the speculation can end and Democrats can choose whether to support him or someone else.

From a personal perspective, I'm inclined to support a candidate that has a solid record in the Democratic party compared to relative newcomers who may be prone to making mistakes because of ignorance.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:13 AM

4. Hillary's campaign was about the future but white men did not want it

they wanted to go back to the old days so many people in government and elsewhere, particularly white men did things to help beat her .

a female president would have been a huge change . especially one whose major issue was women's rights. as she showed in china unlike the piece of shit that got the support from those who attacked hillary for being status quo.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:00 AM

8. I campaigned for Hillary after she was nominated.

Did all I could to help her get elected then.

There are a lot of white men who wouldn't support her(almost all of whom wouldn't have supported any Dem)but I wasn't one of them.

Don't confuse me with the white men who didn't want the future.


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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:30 AM

25. Nobody did that...

Don't confuse me with the white men who didn't want the future.
Nobody did that. That poster's reply did nothing of the sort. Why are you defending yourself against an accusation that was never made?

8. I campaigned for Hillary after she was nominated.
Did all I could to help her get elected then.
This again. Irrelevant. Off-topic. That has nothing to do with what that poster said. Why try to make this about yourself? What's the purpose of making defensive statements like that when the poster made no accusations about you at all?

Weird.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:22 AM

5. That is ultimately Biden's decision, but I think in the end he will agree

Howard Dean and Hillary Clinton are absolutely right: the old guard needs to stick around with their experience and advice, but younger blood needs to come to the forefront and take over the reins. If 2020 is another Clinton vs. Dole, or Obama vs. McCain, the result will be similar, I predict, and I only hope it won't come too late for some serious damage control.

This has less to do with ageism and more to do with media perception. More than ever, the next election will be fought on electronic media, and it will be MSNBC vs. Fox as much as it will be Democrats vs. Republicans.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:24 AM

6. What happens next? Full equality of women.

That is how to be the party of the future, the party of change.

What happens next? As women step up and demand full equality as human beings we need to ensure that we don't make some other group the scapegoat-in this case the "OLDER" people to whom you refer.

It is about becoming the party of inclusion-not just another party of exclusion, of division, of playing favorites with human rights.

What happens next is what we make happen. We can use our brains to figure out how to compensate and substitute for the sociological tendency to bind most of us together by making some of us second class citizens (the out group);

or we can continue on that well-worn path to maintaining inequality by championing liberty and justice for some by denying it to others.

I am not a Joseph Biden fan but if he wants to run for president, it is his right. the primary voters will sort it out.

We used to have party bosses who decided the candidates-we switched to become more democratic. I am not interested in regressing.






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Response to delisen (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:55 AM

7. And I agree with you about full equality for women.

Always have.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have campaigned for Hillary after she was nominated.

If you think I ever supported putting equality for all people aside for any reason, you don't know me.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:50 PM

92. Your words.

And I agree with you about full equality for women.


If the fact is, that you "agree with the full equality for women"...and she was the ONLY candidate that did, why oh why wasn't she your first choice?

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #92)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:20 PM

98. That part is not true. BOTH of them backed full equality for women.

Both were solidly pro-choice. Both were solidly for everything else.

if I didn't support full equality for women, I wouldn't have campaigned for HRC in the fall.

Or been prepared to support Elizabeth Warren had SHE entered the primaries(there was no difference whatsoever between HRC and Warren on women's equality).

There is a limit to what else can be said about this. Please don't dredge up the primaries anymore-what matters now is the future.

I respect your passion and share your grief about what occurred last November.









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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:11 AM

9. In the age of Trumps misogyny and racism what message does running a white male send?

To me, as much as I like Joe, it sends the wrong one. And he won’t mobilize people to vote as much simply due to that.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:14 AM

11. It sends the message that some white men are enlightened feminists

And are willing to stand up and fight for issues that are important to people of all gender identities and races.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:40 AM

22. Biden has a lot of POC appeal

he drew good support from the African American community during the primary when he was running.

IMO, this "we need new ideas" or "fresh faces" is going to be swimming upstream in 2020 because of the nonstop shit show that is 45.

His whole candidacy was based on blowing up the system, and after 4 years of POTUS taking to twitter to assail anyone and anything other than vodka, and his running the entire federal government into the ground, the tides are probably going to be that the people will want calm and competent.

I am not saying he WILL win, and if it were today I would want Warren.

But, I just can't fathom that an unknown/little known, will be able to win in 2020.

2020 is going to be about trying to put the pieces back together, giving everyone a break from the drama, trying to get back SOME of our good will and standing abroad, etc.

Joe Biden could look VERY good in that kind of election.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:18 PM

46. Not really.

His support in the African-American community is nothing to write home about.

In fact, he has some serious problebms that will resurface if he runs. For example, his record on busing is a disgrace.

Oh, and Clarence Thomas ...

Biden is enjoying the kind of honeymoon that Hillary had before she ran. But if he were to get in the race, that will go away. And, while black folk are loyal and forgiving, we also have verrrry long memories. And I don’t think the black community will fall all over itself to support Biden, especially if he’s positioned as the “let’s forget about all that identity politics foolishness and pick the guy who the white working class will like” candidate.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 10:40 AM

146. Sends the same old message it has always sent.

As a former Bernie voter, I would still like us to swing for the fences. We have Maxine, we have Kamala, we have Liz. We can dazzle and deliver.

The party's gonna tend to play it safe, but I will still be voting Dem.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:13 AM

10. He should definitely run

This is a democracy. If the people don't like him, they won't vote for him.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:23 AM

13. Why not just turn it over to the next generation?

Isn't this going to create a long-term situation where we never nominate anybody under 65 again?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:35 AM

16. Why should Biden feel compelled to surrender?

If he feels that he can make a contribution then let him run for the nomination. He has been a loyal Democrat for decades.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:31 PM

107. I didn't say he should "surrender".

He should be considered an elder statesperson and should keep speaking out on issues.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #107)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:35 PM

110. You're splitting hairs and playing word games. This doesn't help...

... your argument at all.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #107)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:52 PM

113. Yeah, right.



You aren't fooling anyone.

I previously didn't have any position about whether Joe should run, but after this thread I am convinced that Biden should enter the race if that is his desire.

Biden is an elder statesman that would make a great president if elected. Your agenda of discrediting him is obvious and is backed up by not only this post but by the other posts that you made about Biden in the past.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:41 AM

17. Some folks value age and experience

I think there is something to be said for electing a person with a long history in the Democratic party, like Joe Biden.

However, if the majority of Democratic voters want someone younger, than they can vote for that person in the primary.

Why not open things up to a variety of strong options?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:49 AM

28. "Why not open things up to a variety of strong options?" Yes...

Why not open things up to a variety of strong options?
Yes... but apparently that's easier for some people than it is for others. (Obviously.)

However, if the majority of Democratic voters want someone younger, than they can vote for that person in the primary.
Agreed. It's truly bizarre how a certain element here are so intent on dismissing anything and everything that's not "new" or "young" or "revolutionary" (if you know what I mean).

Why not open things up to a variety of strong options?
Thank you! Yes, let's hear what ALL DEMOCRATS have to say and allow DEMOCRATS to choose.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:25 PM

126. Finally, you get to the crux of your various responses.

The word revolutionary. And of course the emphasis on DEMOCRATS.

Very................ something.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #126)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:21 PM

140. LOL

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #140)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:26 PM

142. Agreed, that is my typical response.

But keep trying.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #126)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 09:34 AM

144. Emphasis on DEMOCRATS...

On Democratic Underground?

Get. Out.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #144)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 11:05 AM

147. I suppose that I could explain it to you.

But I will not.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:32 AM

15. +1

I believe that he would be an effective president who would get plenty of legislation passed due to his prior experience in the Senate. If he wants the job, then let him campaign.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:11 PM

82. Sure he should. 8 years of trump would be go great.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:27 AM

14. Completely disagree - 4 years of 45

And the country is going to need a serious break from the hate and complete incompetence.

I am not saying he WILL win, but his experience, knowledge and likeability could be VERY appealing.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:43 AM

18. I would love to have his voice in the primary.

Solid democrat. Can’t imagine the need for a preemptive strike to not even want him in the primary. I don’t see myself voting for him but that’s beside the point.

Your simply all over the place with this. Start with Biden in order to get where you really want to go. Last time you supported the longest standing and oldest career politician in the field. Transparent.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:40 AM

41. "Start with Biden in order to get where you really want to go."

That's a bingo. OP isn't fooling anyone.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:44 AM

42. I'm pretty sure they are operating off of a template.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:21 PM

50. I'm not in any "they".

I don't have a candidate and speak only for myself.

(BTW, the argument in my OP also rules out Bernie).

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #50)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:31 PM

54. Template seems to be working. Stick with it.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:32 PM

57. Indeed it is!

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:51 PM

66. I don't have a template.

And it doesn't matter if a writer repeats phrases. Most people do that when they write.

And saying we shouldn't nominate somebody older than Trump doesn't damage the party. Nobody should be talking up the idea of any presidential candidate at this point, it's a waste of time.

And it's not "divisive" simply to disagree with what some other people support. It's simply an opinion.

I suppose I could ask why you have it in for me...I've done nothing to merit your hostility.

We supported different candidates before Philly, I joined you in supporting the one nominated afterwards.

That should have put anything about me to rest.


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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #66)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:03 PM

70. NCTraveler is not being hostile to you...

I suppose I could ask why you have it in for me...I've done nothing to merit your hostility.
... she's treating you with kid glove kindness and respect. She's simply stating facts and pointing out things that YOU happen to disagree with. Nobody is attacking you. Nobody is being hostile to you. Nobody "has it in" for you.

I suppose I could ask why you have it in for me...I've done nothing to merit your hostility.
Irrelevant. That's a distraction. It's a faux-defense against an "attack" that never even happened. Nobody said ANYTHING about that.

Please stop trying to make everything about the primaries. Please stop trying to rehash the primaries.

We supported different candidates before Philly, I joined you in supporting the one nominated afterwards.
That should have put anything about me to rest.
So what? Just because someone supported the party's nominee doesn't they're immune from criticism or from being called out whenever they happen to behave in a predictable way.


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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #66)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 04:18 PM

72. "I've done nothing to merit your hostility. "

I don't consider this to be hostility. At all.

"Nobody should be talking up the idea of any presidential candidate at this point, it's a waste of time. "

But it's never too early to trash a possible entrant.



Are you having another Kamala moment? Maybe we should revive that to show the transparency.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #72)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:40 PM

90. Why does it matter that I said things about her sixteen months ago?

Those were the only three or four times I even mention her.

I've said since then that I like where she's going now, so why does it still matter that I made a handful of comments ages ago?

It can't be forbidden simply to make critical comments about Democratic politicians.

It was hostility to go off on me for starting this thread.

I respect Joe. I just don't think we can win by nominating anyone from the past is all.




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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #90)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:43 PM

91. This is great.

“I always say what I really mean.”

“Why does it matter what I said”

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #91)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:55 PM

93. I've changed my mind about her and apologized for what I said in the past.

I like Kamala now, especially since she now backs single-payer and since I've learned about her position on criminal justice.

What I said about Kamala was wrong and out-of-line It was also something I said ages ago. I've apologized for it before and I apologize for it again now.

How long do you intend to hold it against me?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #93)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:04 PM

95. I brought it up once.

You now have twice.

It had nothing to do with my reply here. I was simply highlighting what you disagreed with twenty minutes ago, and now agree with. I appreciate your evolution.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #95)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:29 PM

105. You threatened to repost what I posted then.

You're trying to paint me as a person who trashes Democratic politicians and that's simply not true.



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #105)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:51 PM

122. How is reposting something that you posted previously a threat?

Nobody is trying to paint you as a person that trashes Democratic politicians. Nobody needs to even try when your own words do the job so eloquently. Face it Ken, you painted yourself in a corner and you didn't need any assistance from anyone else to do it.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #122)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:09 PM

124. I don't trash Democratic politicians.

In the past, before Philly, I said some harsh things...but mostly I simply made legitimate criticisms of political figures who happened to be Democrats.

When what I said was over-the-line, I apologized and admitted wrong.

I've stopped communicating in the way I did in the past. What I said in a heated primary, in a time when there was toxicity all over this site, has nothing to do with me now. By the same token, no one here now should be defined and judged now by what they said in the spring of 2016, or in times before that.

It's absurd to judge every poster by the worst thing they ever posted and never let them move on from that.

Nothing I said in this OP, or even the one from June, trashed Joe Biden.

I simply said(in response to several threads pushing the idea of nominating him) that I didn't think we can win by nominating someone who, while they served the country well in most things, will be seen as part of the past by the next election.

That is nothing like trashing.






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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #124)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:27 PM

127. Your posts prove otherwise and most of us realize the game you are playing.

You wouldn't need to apologize or defend yourself if you never made those statements in the first place. Please take it as a learning experience.

The consequences of sharing your opinions so frequently have come back to haunt you in spades, but keep digging yourself into the hole deeper. The consensus of most of the people on this thread is that Biden should run if he desires and your suggestion that he not run is not shared universally. In fact, you may have mobilize support for Joe with this thread. If your intention was for this thread to backfire, then keep up the good work!

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:34 PM

59. So happy to see I'm not alone in my observations.

Thanks for putting it out there.



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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:13 AM

20. Topic line hedging feelings over the yearning to silence a popular Democrat.

Into more hedging about how it’s really not the person you don’t like.

Followed by more hedging and what it’s “really” about.

Then move into divisive rhetoric all while generating a conspiracy theory about a group that will be “marginalized”.

Finish with a call to change the party and empty slogans.

At this point it simply seems like the regurgitation of a fill in the blank form letter.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:27 PM

52. I honestly LIKE Joe. He's been a great Dem.

And I'm saying nothing other than what I'm saying on the surface.

There's no hedging and you've got no call to imply that I've got a hidden agenda.

I don't support ANY candidate at this point.

Not Bernie. Not Tulsi. I'm truly uncommitted.

Why try to settle the nomination three years early when that never leads us to anything good, and when it isn't even possible to do that.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:31 PM

55. You are VERY observant and VERY astute...

... in spite of the predictable response, I believe you're right on target and that you and I see the same things. It's an undeniable pattern that becomes very clear when one takes a step back to see the larger picture.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:20 AM

23. Completely Agree!!

I do not want Joe Biden to run. I personally am very uncomfortable with his grabbiness of women in public settings. I don't like how he talks about his wife. I think it works for some parts of the country and certain demographics but it seems creepy to me. It also will act as a perfect counter ad campaign to Trump's disdain for women. Remember the Republicans playbook is to attack the opponent's strength. Biden is a great advocate on many women's issues so they will use anything to attack that strength.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:37 AM

27. The next election should be half politics/half psychology. The country is damaged.

And we need to heal. So our candidate has to be able to facilitate that process.

If we are smart we will recognize that.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:51 AM

29. Against TRUMP age not so much a factor....

Trump is old too. Have we forgotten?

Solution for Biden....pledge single term....get young Kennedy for VP for the youth of the future.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:55 AM

30. Agree. We need to go with the next generation

Running the same folks over-and-over again just isn't going to get the job done.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:48 PM

131. He's free to run in the Primary if he wishes, just as you are free to vote for another candidate

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:55 AM

31. I don't believe he could win

Unfairly tainted by the right wing conspiracy machine.
We need a fresh faced military veteran with charisma to have any hope of carrying the day.

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Response to Denis 11 (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:09 PM

80. That went away after the VP...and he helped President Obama tremendously in 12

as did the explainer in chief as he dubbed himself. Bill Clinton...I worked the campaign. Joe Biden is very very good. We vote for the Democratic nominee ...no matter what.

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Response to Denis 11 (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 07:52 PM

194. You seem to be describing my early preference for 2020, Pete Buttigieg. Nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #194)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 09:38 PM

199. OK, give him a chance.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:01 AM

32. Our next President will need to know how all governing bodies worked before the lsos

They will need to have a very broad understanding and knowledge of how the system works and who is capable of putting it all back together again.
I can think of no one more qualified or experienced other than Biden. He is also a person who most likely will bring that next generation into play by appointing new blood to important agencies.

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Response to randr (Reply #32)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:13 AM

34. I agree with you 100%. You have expressed my sentiments and thoughts precisely. Thank you.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:12 AM

33. I couldn't disagree with you more, comrade.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:23 AM

35. IMO (solely) I believe that by election time the vast

majority of the American populace is going to be so sick and tired of hearing about the corruption AND corrupt people in government that Dumpy has saddled us with that they will be screaming for a real change. I can't think of anyone better to reassure a disgusted populace than Biden. Honest to a fault, astute without being an ass about it, experienced so as to begin cleaning the Augean stables Dump and his cohorts have left us. Above all, Joe is reassuring. He's what we all learned that a President is supposed to be. I think most people will voter overwhelmingly for him IF he runs.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:24 AM

36. Pass the torch, Joe

It's time.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:37 AM

37. While I doubt that Biden will or should be the nominee, I think he should define his version of what

we stand for. This would be the best thing to do IF he is starting a run AND the best contribution he could make as an elder statesman if he ultimately does not run. In fact, I think that the best "audition" to be the nominee for anyone is to be out there defining what the Democratic party stands for - as they make the case that they are the best person to lead the party.

What he and everyone else should try to tamp down immediately is speculation on whether he could have won in 2016. 2016 happened, he did not run and speculating about alternative paths that could have happened is not useful and, given the circumstances, leads to painful discussions that split a party that needs to unite. We can not return to 2015, make changes and see what would have happened, we are still be stuck with the reality. It also does not matter for 2020. Even if we KNEW 100% that candidate X would have won in 2016 had they been the nominee, that does not mean they would in 2020 or that they would be our best chance.

The WORST thing that could happen is for the Democrats to waste any more time arguing that Biden (or Bernie - or O'Malley etc) would have defeated Trump. It steals the oxygen from the issues we NEED to raise and use to define ourselves. The more we engage in bashing Clinton's campaign or blaming Bernie, the harder it is to unite and to define ourselves. Just as in the GWB years, we should be unified because the differences between us are easily seen as much smaller than the gap between Bush and any of us. (In 2007, I had a personal moment of seeing that when GWB vetoed the expansion of SCHIP. I did not like some of the 2008 candidates, but what I knew was that everyone of them - even the loathsome Edwards - would not have vetoed that bill.)

For 2020, Trump has wiped any veil away from who the Republicans are for -- and it is not the majority of the country. We need to be seen as having an inclusive American agenda. Last week, I heard Keith Ellison (and Sanders, Welch and Leahy) speak to VT Democrats and he was incredible making the contrast between what the Republican President and Congress stood for and what we were fighting for.

Biden, because he had the honor of being Vice President and because of his own accomplishments, should have a role even if it becomes clear that he will not be the nominee. We are fortunate to have several former (or current) leaders who have the gravitas that came from lifetimes of service. There are so many issues where the heart of the Democratic policy is already known and universally agreed on by the party. On those issues, we should hear from people like President Obama, VP Biden, etc It is hard to beat watching John Kerry and Al Gore speaking on climate change. Imagine Obama and Holder speaking on the integrity of the voting system.


Biden played many roles in the Obama WH, but one that he could make more of an issue of was all the work he did after the stimulus package of 2009 was passed to monitor how it was working. The Obama administration called for a major infrastructure program, but other than in dribbles and drabs in various bills passed in 2010 where we won over the one or two Republican Senators needed, nothing passed.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:39 AM

40. He should run if he chooses. So should anyone else.

That's what a primary is for.

You can vote on whether or not you think he's the best nominee then.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:55 AM

43. The SNL sketch was right on the money.

The Democrats have become the party of old geezers. We've got the same slate of candidates we've been running since I was a teenager, and I'm 58 now. By contrast, despite how horrible they are, look at the people who are the face of the GOP, they're relatively young (Mitch McTurtle and Gramps McCain excepted). But it's more than just the age of our Dem leaders. What about the IDEAS? What is our platform? Having an octogenarian coming out trying to talk issues with the young voters we need to attract -- it always sounds forced and phony. Remember the excitement and energy when Bill Clinton first appeared? We need something like that, not the same old same old grandparents who've been boring generations of Democratic youth the last few elections.

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Response to Atman (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:46 PM

64. just my opinion

we need someone like a Justin Trudeau!!

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Response to Atman (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:11 PM

81. Trump managed...it is not about age...and I will vote for whoever wins.

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Response to Atman (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:55 PM

134. Ryan's "young" but he has the soul of an venal old asshole

Biden should run in the primary if he wishes, just as you should support the candidate of your choice.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:10 PM

45. I disagree strongly

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:20 PM

47. Id prefer someone who didnt try to drive a stake in desegregation and allow Thomas on the SC

Thank you.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:12 PM

83. Everyone got put on the court in those days. It was and should be the president's choice. Advice and

consent was not meant to be political...Mitch McConnell destroyed it by refusing to seat Merrick Garland. However, that is how it was when Thomas was approved.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #83)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 11:59 PM

162. No, they didnt

Fortas ... Bork ... Ginsberg ... Miers, for example.

You should learn something about the judicial nomination process - it sounds like you don’t know very much about it or the history of the Judiciary Committee.

Clarence Thomas was ridiculously unqualified - aside from the sexual harassment - but Chairman Biden gave him a pass. Biden’s treatment of Anita Hill was reprehensible. The only reason she got a chance to testify was that outside groups screamed and yelled - Biden had no intention of even letting her be heard. He could have and should have kept Thomas’ nomination from being voted out of committee. The committee never was a rubber stamp - they have a right to consent or not consent. Biden failed abyssmally.

You should also research his disgraceful history on school desegregation.

Black voters have not forgotten any of this. We gave him a pass because Obama, not Biden, was at the top of ticket and would determine the administration’s policies. But if he runs for president, he will be held accountable and it probably won’t be pretty.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #162)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 03:01 PM

163. Fortas broke the rules...and Bork Used drugs...and that is two in how many years?

People got put on the courts and you know it.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #163)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 08:04 PM

164. Bork was blocked because he used drugs? Okaaay.

Never mind.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #164)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 07:40 AM

192. He smoked Marijuana...and admitted it and yes it was used to block him.

Hard to believe, buy look at Pres. Clinton's defense of marijuana use,"I didn't inhale."

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #192)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 07:41 PM

193. No.

You have him confused with Douglas Ginsburg.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #193)

Mon Nov 20, 2017, 07:32 AM

200. Yep you are correct...

Whatever, the reason, we dodged a bullet by not getting that guy on the court...lives were saved.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:25 PM

48. If he's a winner, we run him.

Ain't got no time to mess around.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:25 PM

49. Biden this very morning said it best, Let's see where America is in a year and a half.

He and Jill sure answered a lot of questions this AM interviews. From the last primary debates, to , to his religion, to his new book, to a presidents health records, to age of a person running for president, to his teaching classes, his love for the Obamas, loss of his son, Bidens cancer foundation and many more.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:38 PM

111. That's my point. It should all be left 'til after 2018.

There have been a bunch of threads here trying to push for Biden already.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #111)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:42 PM

138. People love him. He will be on many interviews, help Ds in the midterms, promote his new book &

media will ask him, 'will you run?' a thousand times. Can't stop people from asking him and wanting him to run, let them ask.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:25 PM

51. Any Democrat that wants to run should run.

We have primaries for a reason.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:28 PM

53. Donald's age didn't stop him

I don't see why we lose simply because the nominee is older.

He's in better shape than the Orange Baboon.

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Response to treestar (Reply #53)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:55 PM

68. and of course being qualified for

the position helps too and a big understanding of diplomacy too, instead of being totally unfit and mentally unstable for the job.

I mean would you go to a baker if you needed surgery.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:04 PM

76. people will run...the voters will choose...and then we vote for the nominee...we have no control

over who runs or doesn't run.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:02 PM

94. Step off, Joe. Ken the Burch has UNANOINTED you.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #94)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:27 PM

102. Oh dear! LOL! :-D You crack me up!

betsuni
94. Step off, Joe. Ken the Burch has UNANOINTED you.




Thanks for the laugh... I needed that!

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Response to betsuni (Reply #94)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:29 PM

128. +1

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Response to betsuni (Reply #94)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:06 PM

139. Ouch! Nooooooooo

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:04 PM

96. Joe could handle dotard in a debate

I would support him 100% if he decided to run.

Tell me another Dem politician that would be able to go toe to toe with him in the debate ring? The only other one I can think of is Al Franken.

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Response to bathroommonkey76 (Reply #96)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:24 PM

116. Hillary pulverized trump in all debates

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #116)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:28 PM

117. So you are suggesting Hillary should run again?

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Response to bathroommonkey76 (Reply #117)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:30 PM

118. What I'm saying is that winning a debate won't win an election

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #118)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:33 PM

119. I don't believe that at all

Hillary had everything against her- the Russians, Wikileaks, Benghazi - I mean I could keep going but what's the use?... Joe and/or Franken won't have to deal with half of what she put up with in 2016.

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Response to bathroommonkey76 (Reply #119)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:38 PM

120. I agree with all she had to deal with, but I'm not sure the next Dem candidate won't

Last edited Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:18 AM - Edit history (1)

have to deal with Russia and Wikileaks. And I don't think trump is a very good debater either.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #118)

Wed Nov 15, 2017, 08:14 PM

165. Winning the debates, among other successes, had HRC ready to win by a decisive margin.

Then Comey intervened with 11 days to go and rigged the election.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:24 PM

100. Joe would make a great president.

I would mention ageism here but me mentioning it will get more attention than you using it against a Democratic politician so I best shut up.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 06:30 PM

106. awhile back i would have agreed with you but trump has ruined America..

...and at this point we need a wizened experienced statesperson to put it back together again.. to put US back together again... not a political neophyte. These are dangerous and unusual times. No time left for on the job training. Joes loving and compassionate but tough as nails.

Hes totally got my support.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:22 PM

115. We need to nominate the individual who has the best change of beating

Trump, or whoever replaces him. Today I think that is Biden. In 2 years it might be McAuliffe, or Cory Booker, or someone else altogether. But today I think Biden is a fine candidate and would support him 100%.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:52 PM

123. I agree

That would be a losing campaign. We are in far better shape toward 2018 than 2020, when an incumbent will own massive advantages.

We have to find an ideal nominee

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:30 PM

129. Age has nothing to do with it, but message does.

I mainly preferred Sander's message, but Sanders also missed a major weakness in his own campaign. And at some point my generation, the boomers, must step aside and allow the next generation to step up.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #129)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 09:01 PM

136. That is a far better expression of what I tried to express in the OP than my own words.

It's time for the next generation.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:49 PM

132. He's free to run in the primary if he wishes, just as you are free to support another candidate

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 11:33 PM

143. Well, Biden would trounce Trump...What other Dem would? n/t

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 09:35 AM

145. True. He failed to win the nomination twice. Came in 5th behind HRC in Iowa in 2008.

Assuming that he would win in 2020, or would have won in 2016 doesn't really make sense.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:22 PM

154. The only people that get to decide that

Is Joe Biden if he wants to be the nominee. His circle of friends will help him too.
And everyone else that votes in the primary.

You or I alone don't get to decide by ourselves.

If Joe makes the decision and makes the case then he should run. Between now and when it is time to make that decision it may not make a difference and we all wasted time.

As far as the party of time and renewal and all of your other arguments. We are that. But it should not be required that each part must be same from the top on down.

Being the voice of next generation in politics should not be relegated to just the younger. There are plenty of older Democrats that also speak for the next generation. But it shouldn't be about speaking just for the next generation but also those that are still living this generation. And not everything from the past is bad. Nor should everything change. The key is to improve on what we have now.

Who says it will be running the exact same campaign again?

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:11 PM

182. His time was 2016.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 09:16 PM

188. and we need candidates who have a track record of fighting for progressive change

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 07:55 PM

195. Hes not my choice but I think he should run. He would be a great

addition to the primary. He would be very good at taking it to Trump and letting my preferred candidate be above that while he wins the nomination and then Presidency.



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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 08:26 PM

196. I don't think he's right for 2020. But if he is nominated I'll be super happy

I think we do need to have a fresh and younger face for the party. We always do better when we nominate younger candidates.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sun Nov 19, 2017, 08:27 PM

197. Yes, he should

In fact anyone that can win against Trump should run.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Mon Nov 20, 2017, 07:43 AM

201. I'm keeping my eye on Martin O'Malley.

I think he's going to run in 2020. Right now he is gaining visibility and showing leadership by jelping down-ballot Dems for 2018 raise money.

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