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Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:20 PM

I have a question

My 57 year old, mentally impaired son always had behavioral problems. . He would rant and rave, but he never hurt anyone. Several years ago he was arrested for brandishing a weapon when he fired a pistol into the air. He was put on house arrest for 6 months. Since we live in a rural state, we had several guns in our household. The Court ordered us to get all the guns out of the house which we did. Two years later he was again arrested for brandishing a weapon after he again threatened several people with a pistol. Unbeknownst to me he had purchased a .357 Magnum from a guy three miles down the road from us who knew him and knew he shouldn't have a gun. I explained my son's condition to his attorney, and the court agreed that he should undergo a psychiatric examination. In the meantime he would be incarcerated in the local regional jail. He was in jail for 6 months ( which only made his condition worse because he didn't understand why he was there) before he was actually sent to a facility for a forensic psychiatric examination. The doctors diagnosed him as being a paranoid schizophrenic and put him on the medication Abilify. He was released after six months, prescribed medication and allowed to come home. He was not charged with a crime. However after a while he quit taking his medication. He has this thing about drugs, and insists he doesn't "do drugs". We tried to explain that the doctor prescribed these meds, but he still didn't listen. During the time he was incarcerated and taking his meds the nurses said they wished they had a whole ward full of patients like my son. When he is off his meds he is an entirely different person- he yells, screams, talks to himself and others who aren't there. He lives in his own little world and his own reality. I tried to get him help, but was told he was an adult and free to make his own decisions. One day he got into a shouting match with a neighbor, and threw the neighbor's truck keys over the hill. The neighbor got a warrant for him for petty larceny. The warrant was never served, but I knew it existed. One day when my son was really in a state, I told him there was an existing warrant for his arrest. He didn't believe me, so I turned the car around and drove directly to the magistrates office where he was arrested. While he was being processed I spoke to the magistrate and told him that all I wanted was someone in authority to impress on my son the vital importance of taking his meds and the possible consequences if he doesn't. Well, to make a long story short, the state recommended a new psych exam. Since my son's crime was didn't involve violence or bodily injury, the judge dropped the charges on the condition that he seek psychiatric help and resume taking his meds. This my son did and he is now on Abilify Maintainence which involves going to the local health services for a monthly shot and counseling. Since my son receives a disability check every month he is eligible for a health card so he only pays about $8 a month for his shot. If he had to pay the full price it would cost him over $700 which be almost his entire check. Now I take him once a month for his shot and he seems to have rejoined the real world. I worry that these upcoming cuts under Trump may prevent him from getting his medications.

My son shouldn't be allowed to have a weapon, not only for the protection of others, but for himself as well. My questions is this- since my son was never officially convicted of a crime, would his name be in the national data base used for background checks?

31 replies, 1467 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply I have a question (Original post)
MadCrow Nov 7 OP
HeartachesNhangovers Nov 7 #1
trof Nov 7 #2
The Polack MSgt Nov 8 #24
MFM008 Nov 9 #30
sarisataka Nov 7 #3
The Polack MSgt Nov 8 #21
sarisataka Nov 8 #22
The Polack MSgt Nov 8 #23
NCTraveler Nov 7 #4
HeartachesNhangovers Nov 7 #5
NCTraveler Nov 7 #8
kydo Nov 7 #6
NCTraveler Nov 7 #9
HeartachesNhangovers Nov 7 #10
kydo Nov 7 #11
HeartachesNhangovers Nov 7 #12
kydo Nov 7 #13
HeartachesNhangovers Nov 7 #15
kydo Nov 8 #17
brer cat Nov 8 #19
Alice11111 Nov 9 #29
pnwmom Nov 9 #26
MadCrow Nov 8 #16
kydo Nov 8 #18
pnwmom Nov 9 #27
PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 9 #28
panader0 Nov 7 #7
tulipsandroses Nov 7 #14
brer cat Nov 8 #20
ManiacJoe Nov 9 #25
MFM008 Nov 9 #31

Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:36 PM

1. I hope so. If he isn't, you should do whatever

you can to make sure he is prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms, even if you have to go to court and talk a judge into blacklisting him.

One thing we know for sure: Even though someone - by law - should be a prohibited person (because they have been dishonorably discharged form the military, because they have a domestic violence conviction, because they escaped from a mental institution, etc, etc) , that doesn't mean that the system actually works.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:49 PM

2. Try more than two paragraphs.

YUGE blocks of types are daunting.

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Response to trof (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 09:37 PM

24. SMH

Lord knows no one should expect you to have to read anything before shitting on a post

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Response to trof (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 05:00 AM

30. Someone telling a personal

Story doesn't need Grammer check.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)


Response to sarisataka (Reply #3)


Response to The Polack MSgt (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 08:41 PM

22. I must confess

Last edited Wed Nov 8, 2017, 10:10 PM - Edit history (1)

that I did not read over it. Upon reviewing the subject I agree that it is inappropriate and will delete.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 09:35 PM

23. Thank you. I respect you for reconsidering that post. nt

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:58 PM

4. I dont have an answer.

Such a difficult situation.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:01 PM

5. Difficult situation???? His son is a violent, disturbed

criminal! This is as easy as it gets. Ban him for life!

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Response to HeartachesNhangovers (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:06 PM

8. They are a human being with a diagnosed condition.

A very difficult situation.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:02 PM

6. Thank you for sharing. Really.

I don't know the answer to your question. And it is a very important question. I do hope you get an answer. But your story is one that should be shared for so many reasons. Your concern about guns, the access to medical help, the whole journey.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to kydo (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:07 PM

9. But your story....

Yes yes yes.

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Response to kydo (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:08 PM

10. WTF? Did you read the post?

...he was arrested for brandishing a weapon when he fired a pistol into the air...

...Two years later he was again arrested for brandishing a weapon after he again threatened several people with a pistol...


What more do you need to know? Dang!

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Response to HeartachesNhangovers (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:22 PM

11. Yes, I read the post, did you?

I read about a parents doing everything to help their son. They also seem to understand he is a threat. I took the question asked to be out of concern not just for their son but everyone around him. He is an adult and they can't control him legally.

I seriously doubt the question was so he could go get a gun. I took it that they hope he is IN the data base.

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Response to kydo (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:29 PM

12. "hope he is IN the data base". Not good enough!

The OP needs to stop asking people on DU and get out and make DAMN SURE that this person IS IN THE DATABASE.

Firing a gin into the air isn't "brandishing" - it is illegal discharge which should result in JAIL time. Pointing a gun at people isn't "brandishing" it is ASSAULT and should result in PRISON time.

If we didn't coddle criminal conduct so much, we wouldn't have so much violent crime.

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Response to HeartachesNhangovers (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:35 PM

13. Yeah your right, just kill them all, right?

No hope for you. Is that what you want? Sure sounds like it.

Anyway I am done with this chat. Anger solves nothing.

Good day sir/mam.

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Response to kydo (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:38 PM

15. Fuck the violent criminals, their apologists and

their enablers.

Now you're done.

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Response to HeartachesNhangovers (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 06:46 PM

17. Nah, it's a new day big dem victory, very happy. But fuck mean non caring shits

You totally over reacted. The Op followed up. You really should read it.

Get off your high horse and grow a heart.

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Response to HeartachesNhangovers (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 08:06 PM

19. Are you always cruel and nasty

or just when there is an elderly, heartbroken person on the receiving end of your bile?

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Response to brer cat (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 03:51 AM

29. Well put.

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Response to HeartachesNhangovers (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 02:17 AM

26. Being in the database won't stop neighbors down the road from selling their guns to him. n/t

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Response to kydo (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 05:43 PM

16. My concern is not only for my son, but others as well

I am a 77 year old widow living in WV and everyone I know owns firearms. We had pistols, shotguns and rifles in the house, the whole time my kids were growing up. When my s. on was first arrested for brandishing and facing a year in jail, I took all the weapons in the house and gave them to my other son to put in his gun safe.

My son was put on house arrest for six months. We explained to him that he wasn't allowed to possess a firearm. I thought he understood, but unbeknownst to me, he went down the road and purchased a handgun from a neighbor who has known my son his entire life. Therefore, he didn't go thru the required security check.

When he was arrested again I wasn't aware that he had another pistol. This time he was sent to jail awaiting a forensic psychiatric evaluation. He spent six months in the jail's general population where he was attacked on more than one occasion, As could be expected his condition deteriorated. He was finally released after spending a year in custody.

He was put on medication and released to my care. He was required to go to counseling once a month; that was a joke. All they did was hand him a new prescription and send him on his way. After a few months he quit going.

I tried to get him help. I called the counselor, the hospital, the lawyer, the prosecuting attorney- all to no avail. They told me is was an adult and could make his own decisions. I could see that he was getting worse, but he insisted he was fine.

I knew he had an outstanding warrant for petty larceny for throwing my neighbor's car keys over the hill. But I didn't think being locked up in jail was where he belonged.

So as a last resort I drove him to the magistrate's office and told them they had an outstanding warrant for his arrest While he was being processed, I told the magistrate that I needed someone in authority, preferably with a badge, to tell my son that he needed to take his meds or he would end up in the hospital again.

My son's attorney set up an appointment for a new psych evaluation. They found that my son was incompetent to stand trial and that he could not achieve competence anytime in the future. They directed that he go back to the local mental health facility and go back on his meds. He was told by the judge, the prosecuting attorney, his lawyer and the baliff that he had to take his meds or he would have to go back to the hospital. So far he has been compliant and has not shown any obvious symptoms. He is a different person.

As I said, my concern is not primarily for my son. If another incident occurs, he would put others in danger as well as himself. This situation is one of the main reasons why I am for some type of gun control.

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Response to MadCrow (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 07:34 PM

18. It's a tough question because he is an adult.

Checking to see if he is in the data base will probably end up being not as difficult, as getting him put in. In all honesty, I am not an expert, but I would contact my local law enforcement and see if they can offer any help. They probably can or if not, at least help point you in the right direction.

But at the very least this will alert local law enforcement and they can't claim they didn't know if something was actually to happen.

The position your in is not an easy one. Just having to watch a child go through this is hard. I have kids and I know as a parent I want what is best for them. My heart completely goes out to you.

The nutty thing is I have heard your story many times. I had a relative who suffered from the same thing. Luckily guns were not in the picture for him. But I have also seen where others were not so lucky. Like you the families did everything they could but they still ended up being in an episode on a crime show.

Mental health is very important. Sadly many times people either laugh and mock people who suffer or they go to the extreme ideas of locking them up. There is no caring or compassion. And that is so wrong.

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Response to MadCrow (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 02:20 AM

27. Have you investigated the possibility of having him declared legally incompetent,

and allowing you to become his guardian? An adult who is incompetent isn't treated as an adult who can make his own decisions.

I've never investigated this personally, so I don't know how hard or expensive this is to do -- just that there is some legal provision for it.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this with your son. I can only imagine how painful this must be.

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Response to MadCrow (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 02:32 AM

28. Well, gosh.

Guns of all sorts are readily available in this country. Your son will have no problem getting a gun if that's what he wants. Being on a list means NOTHING since he can purchase a gun at a gun show or privately. And he can buy a gun already decked out to be an automatic rifle, or readily convert one.

The essential problem is this: in this country anyone can buy a gun. Laws be damned. They are readily gotten around. In more reasonable countries firearms are not so readily available. Oddly enough, in those countries they don't have anywhere near as many deaths from guns and very rarely have mass murders with guns. Coincidence?

Basically, you are screwed. You can do your best to try to persuade him to take his meds, to understand he shouldn't have guns, but if he chooses not to take the meds and decides to get a gun or seven, oh, well. That's life in this United States.

Me? I want to see all guns confiscated. And everyone who thinks otherwise is heartily endorsing murder by gun.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:05 PM

7. My sympathies are with you.

I don't know how I would or could handle this situation.
His name should be in a national data for background checks.
All the best--I hope the Abilify makes your lives easier.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:37 PM

14. Contact your local NAMI chapter

Maybe someone there can help with the answers you seek about the gun issue. They also have great support for family members. As far as your son being able to afford his monthly shot, does he get Medicare? I am assuming if he's on Disability, then he should be eligible for Medicare, so even if cuts are made to local health services program, he might still be able to get his shot and continue counseling, if he has Medicare.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 08:12 PM

20. My heart goes out to you, MadCrow.

You are obviously doing the best you can in a terribly difficult situation. I can't answer your question about the national database, but you are obviously doing what you can to keep him and those around him safe. Please keep us posted.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 02:06 AM

25. Check your state laws.

There are ways to do this, but it is normally similar in efforts as getting a family member involuntarily committed for long-term psychiatric care.

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Response to MadCrow (Original post)

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 05:09 AM

31. I use to work for PD

If you were arrested your name goes in the system. Conviction didn't matter . When you watch shows like 48 hours or Forensic Files that's how the build a data base --- on prior arrests. Many times police departments even keep police logs in system.
Ours kept cards on everyone cops came in contact with. Laws change all the time and your local PD may have a non 911 number to answer any questions for you.
Hope this helped.

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