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Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:18 PM

 

Popular Tampa pizza restaurant bans all children

Last week, a sign went up. It caused a lot of other stuff to go down.

Hampton Station, a neighborhood craft beer and pizza spot in Seminole Heights put the notice up on Oct. 24, on the front door in fat all-caps.

NO CHILDREN.

It’s a local piece of a national conversation. As American breweries and bars become increasingly welcome to families, with laid back atmospheres, food, games and grassy knolls, should business owners be able to draw the line?

http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/food/dining/Tampa-pizza-restaurant-Hampton-Station-banned-kids-and-some-parents-are-not-happy_162178658

141 replies, 7907 views

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Arrow 141 replies Author Time Post
Reply Popular Tampa pizza restaurant bans all children (Original post)
keen observer Oct 2017 OP
Glorfindel Oct 2017 #1
KG Oct 2017 #2
Ms. Toad Oct 2017 #3
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #8
Ms. Toad Oct 2017 #10
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #13
NurseJackie Oct 2017 #22
Madam Mossfern Oct 2017 #23
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #48
Ms. Toad Oct 2017 #25
Kaleva Oct 2017 #40
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #115
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #44
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #113
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #119
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #123
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #125
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #128
Coventina Nov 2017 #129
Hekate Oct 2017 #41
smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #59
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #61
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #87
cwydro Oct 2017 #29
nadine_mn Oct 2017 #52
WinkyDink Nov 2017 #70
Bettie Oct 2017 #11
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #14
Bettie Oct 2017 #57
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #60
Bettie Nov 2017 #104
NanceGreggs Nov 2017 #141
Ms. Toad Oct 2017 #18
cwydro Oct 2017 #30
grossproffit Oct 2017 #16
KTM Oct 2017 #17
Ms. Toad Oct 2017 #19
mythology Oct 2017 #24
Ms. Toad Oct 2017 #28
PoliticAverse Oct 2017 #39
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #111
NanceGreggs Oct 2017 #56
tblue37 Nov 2017 #71
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #112
PoliticAverse Nov 2017 #118
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #122
Dorian Gray Nov 2017 #83
Drahthaardogs Nov 2017 #89
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #116
Drahthaardogs Nov 2017 #117
crazycatlady Nov 2017 #98
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #114
crazycatlady Nov 2017 #124
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #126
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #86
snooper2 Nov 2017 #120
bearsfootball516 Oct 2017 #4
smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #5
Coventina Oct 2017 #6
DiverDave Oct 2017 #21
Hekate Oct 2017 #43
Jake Stern Oct 2017 #47
Luciferous Oct 2017 #7
roamer65 Oct 2017 #46
cwydro Oct 2017 #9
NCTraveler Oct 2017 #12
Dorian Gray Nov 2017 #84
JDC Oct 2017 #15
PoliticAverse Oct 2017 #27
JDC Oct 2017 #31
Name removed Nov 2017 #78
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #75
JDC Nov 2017 #91
ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #20
cwydro Oct 2017 #32
ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #34
cwydro Oct 2017 #35
cwydro Oct 2017 #36
ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #42
Laffy Kat Oct 2017 #51
mrs_p Oct 2017 #53
HopeAgain Oct 2017 #26
octoberlib Oct 2017 #45
Name removed Nov 2017 #69
Skittles Nov 2017 #73
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #100
HopeAgain Nov 2017 #106
Generic Brad Oct 2017 #33
cwydro Oct 2017 #37
Generic Brad Oct 2017 #38
ornotna Oct 2017 #49
Jake Stern Oct 2017 #50
Name removed Nov 2017 #74
liquid diamond Oct 2017 #54
Name removed Nov 2017 #72
left-of-center2012 Oct 2017 #55
RhodeIslandOne Nov 2017 #76
left-of-center2012 Nov 2017 #107
RhodeIslandOne Nov 2017 #139
3catwoman3 Oct 2017 #58
Hekate Oct 2017 #65
RhodeIslandOne Nov 2017 #77
petronius Oct 2017 #62
Blue Owl Oct 2017 #63
KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2017 #64
NBachers Nov 2017 #66
boston bean Nov 2017 #67
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #92
HughBeaumont Nov 2017 #99
Name removed Nov 2017 #68
Ken Burch Nov 2017 #79
mainer Nov 2017 #80
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #101
mainer Nov 2017 #135
Coventina Nov 2017 #108
Fullduplexxx Nov 2017 #132
Coventina Nov 2017 #133
get the red out Nov 2017 #81
janterry Nov 2017 #82
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #85
democratisphere Nov 2017 #88
AngryAmish Nov 2017 #90
titaniumsalute Nov 2017 #93
LanternWaste Nov 2017 #94
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #102
HAB911 Nov 2017 #95
Adrahil Nov 2017 #96
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #103
Adrahil Nov 2017 #110
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #121
MineralMan Nov 2017 #97
Phentex Nov 2017 #105
mercuryblues Nov 2017 #109
steve2470 Nov 2017 #127
juxtaposed Nov 2017 #130
steve2470 Nov 2017 #131
GusBob Nov 2017 #140
mainer Nov 2017 #134
Coventina Nov 2017 #137
mainer Nov 2017 #136
obamanut2012 Nov 2017 #138

Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:26 PM

1. Yes, of course. If the parents don't like the policy, there are PLENTY of other pizza places.

n/t

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:32 PM

2. yay.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:44 PM

3. Cue the anti-child crew in 3...2... Oh, I see you already arrived. n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:40 PM

8. Yes, because ...

... adults who would like the option of a child-free restaurant are anti-child.



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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:48 PM

10. And people who would like the option of

. . . a black-free restaurant restaurant are anti-black
. . . a Jewish-free restaurant are antisemitic
. . . a gay-free restaurant are homophobic.

etc.

'bout sums it up.

I have no problems with restaurants imposing restrictions on behavior. It's a different story when they restrict classes of people.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:11 PM

13. Oh, yes, of course.

Wanting a child-free evening is exactly the same as wanting a black-free, Jew-free, gay-free evening.



Children are not "a class of people", they are simply children - and some adults, especially those who have small children at home, like to have a night out away from kids, their own and everyone else's.

Calling people who want some adult-only social time "anti-child" is ludicrous. And equating that with being anti-semitic, anti-black, or homophobic is beyond ridiculous.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:06 PM

22. Exactly. Thank you.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:08 PM

23. Totally agree with you

I have four children (now grown). When my husband and I would steal a night out to ourselves, we did not want to see or hear children. Also, we wouldn't take our children to any place where their noise level would be disturbing. Even if your child is very very well behaved, it doesn't guarantee that all children are that way.

Also - it's not fair for the kids to make them sit still and be quiet while they wait for food, or for their parents finish eating.

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Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:26 PM

48. Exactly.

When my two kids were kids (both adults now), I often needed a night out where I didn't have to watch my language, think twice about an off-colour joke I wanted to share with my table companions, or discuss current events that included "adult situations" that might be overheard by the children within earshot.

Nothing puts a damper on a night devoted to adult conversation than children who make such conversation impossible.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:12 PM

25. Blacks and Jews are simply people, not classes of people.

Family status is a protected class, at least as to housing, and the presence of children is what creates that status.

No it's not exactly the same - but it is more similar than different. One class of people bothered by the presence of another in a space of public accommodation and decides to ban them.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:45 PM

40. Then how would affirmative action take place when everybody is just people?

And there are no classes of people?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:24 PM

115. That's basically my point.

I was responding to someone who was rejecting classifying people.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:58 PM

44. You're the one who ...

... used the term "classes of people", not me.

To say that adults who might want a child-free night out are "not exactly the same, but more similar than different" to anti-semites, anti-blacks, and homophobes is downright bizarre - the two schools of thought are so distant from each other, they're not even in the same solar system.

"Family status is a protected class, at least as to housing ..." This isn't a discussion about housing - it's a discussion about privately-owned businesses offering the option of adults being free to socialize in a child-free venue.

Children are "banned" from seeing certain movies, or attending venues that feature "adult entertainment" - do you really think that's "more similar than different" than banning Jews, blacks, or gays from adult movies, or venues that feature topless waitresses or strippers?

With all due respect, you might want to put down that shovel instead of continuing to dig the hole you're already standing in. You lost whatever allies you thought you'd have the minute you equated adults who enjoy child-free evenings out with racists, homophobes, and anti-semites.

Unless the children that people want to be free of for an evening out are "banned" because they are black, Jewish, or gay, your "argument" is as meaningless as it is laughable.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:22 PM

113. Familial status has nothing to do with a bar and shouldn't.

 

There is zero connection.

"No it's not exactly the same - but it is more similar than different."

No similarity at all. No familial status necessity where protections are needed. It couldn't even fall under the same concept if attempted. That's how far off it is.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #113)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:32 PM

119. If a particular community wants to exclude children, because they find the noise

annoying or inconvenient, they can't. They are not permitted to discriminate based whether or not children under 18 would be living in the home.

The principle is the same. Some people want to ban children from restaurants for the exact same reason. They find children annoying generally (or in a specific seting) and don't want them around - discriminating on the basis of family status (the presence of a child under 18 in restaurant party).

I'm not saying it is illegal to discriminate in a restaurant on age - at least when there are substantial sales of alcohol, it is generally not. But the principle is the same - it is an attempt to exclude people you don't want to be around based in their membership in a class (who they are) rather than whether they are behaving appropriately (what they are doing).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #119)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:46 PM

123. The principle is not the same. They can't be conflated in any way.

 

"I'm not saying it is illegal to discriminate in a restaurant on age"



"But the principle is the same"

No, it is not. And it shows a complete disconnect as to the importance and necessity of familial status protections in housing.

This restaurants decision harms no family in any way. It's not possible under their rule. They provide no necessity to families where protections are needed.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #123)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:56 PM

125. Being unable to go out for a famly dinner doesn't harm the family?

Then why is it a bad thing for restaurants to ban blacks? After all, that decision doesn't harm blacks in any way. Restaurants don't provide any necessity to blacks where protections are needed. (For anyone who is analogically challenged, I don't believe this as to blacks any more than I do as to families with children. I'm just making the point that we do, as a society, see exclusion from non-necessary public accommodations as a harmful. For that reason, we make discrimination in the use of those accommodations illegal.

I'm not contending the scale of harm is the same - or that the restuarant's decision is illegal discrimination. But you are fooling yourself if you pretend it is not of the same nature when a public accommodation discriminates based on who you are (class membership) - rather than how you behave (individual culpability).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #125)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:03 PM

128. "Being unable to go out for a famly dinner doesn't harm the family?"

 

This bar has done that in no way. Please show me one family, with the means, who cannot go out to eat in Tampa. Show me one family turned away because they are less than.

I'm glad you mention you don't believe much of what you have typed.

You are completely making light of the great necessity of familial status protections.

This isn't even slippery slope territory. Under your thoughts a single man with no children and no attachment to the children inside of a child pay to play center would be discriminated against if refused entry.

This mental abuse of familial status is wrong.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #125)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:10 PM

129. Equating children with minority adults is not the way to go.

Children do not have the legal standing of adults. They do not get to enjoy adult privilege of access.

By your line of reasoning children should be able to drive, drink, vote, enlist in the army, get married, incur debt, and buy cigarettes.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:49 PM

41. Thanks, Nance. (signed) Grandma Hekate

I just got the photos back from our joyous 30th wedding anniversary. My favorite photos: me and my grandsons goofing around making bunny ears behind each others' heads, and my niece's husband doing this because his daredevil daughter fell out of the oak tree. As expected.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:29 PM

59. Thank YOU!

Some of us just want a quiet evening out without children running around and screaming. I don't really see a problem with that.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #59)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:57 PM

61. I don't see a problem with that either.

And I really don't understand people who DO have a problem with it.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:11 AM

87. I'm LGBT so THANK YOU

The poster equating this with someone banning LGBT is really sickening to me.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:20 PM

29. Sorry.

No comparison.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:49 PM

52. How the heck do you jump to that?

Children are not a protected class of people. They are children...children don't have the right to do a lot of things: can't drive, can't smoke, can't vote, can't serve in the military, can't marry, can't enter contracts. Are you saying that is the equivalent to blacks or gays or women not having the right to vote, drive, serve in the military or marry?

It's a brewery where you have to be 21 to drink...if their main sales are liquor, why have clientele that can't purchase or be served?

Let me guess...you also think strip clubs and adult movie theatres should also allow children?

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 01:19 AM

70. There are actual LAWS in place about age restrictions. There are NONE re: your straw men.

 

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:54 PM

11. Well, it has been a while since we had a post about how

children should not exist in public spaces. Ever.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:16 PM

14. Sure, mm hmm.

Adults wanting some child-free time is exactly equivalent to thinking children should not exist in public places.

I don't know how we all missed that obvious connection.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:21 PM

57. First, my kids are all older now

but I remember when they were young.

Just this week I have seen arguments that children should not be allowed (in different internet forums):

In grocery stores (because they might bug the adults there)

In department stores (same reason)

In any restaurants anywhere (seriously, someone had a problem with kids being in the playground area of a McDonald's)

To play outdoors in their own back yards if they can not do so silently.

I get very frustrated with the fact that many, many people seem to want children to, well, not be children. Apparently, many of them were never children themselves.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #57)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:52 PM

60. And what does not wanting children ...

.. in certain bars/restaurants have to do with children not being allowed in grocery stores, department stores, playing outdoors in their own yards, or being in "any restaurants anywhere"?

This type of "thin edge of the wedge" argument has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of a pizza place - which is self-described as a "beer garden" - wanting to provide an adult-only venue for those who want a night out away from children.

No one is advocating "children not being children". What they ARE advocating is the idea that many adults prefer an evening out without their own children, or other people's children, being part of the bargain.

I have two kids (now adults) and a grandchild. I love kids and enjoy their company. But there are times I want adult-only relaxation, a place where I am free to BE an adult and not have to alter my behaviour, language, and topics of conversation because there are children within earshot.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:25 AM

104. The reaction would be very different

if the restaurant had said they don't want anyone over 55 or anyone with a different color of skin.

But to ban kids, well that's something "everyone" can get behind, right?

Maybe I'm weird, because I can have a good time and enjoy my evening even if someone else's table has a kid at it.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #104)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:38 PM

141. Yes, the reaction would be very different ...

... because that situation would be very different!!!

No matter how many times you try to equate banning children from a bar/restaurant with banning people based on race, religion, or age, it doesn't make your contention any less ridiculous.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:59 PM

18. Yup.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:21 PM

30. Oh dear.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:22 PM

16. This is directed at adults who allow their children to use restaurants as a playgrounds.

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Response to grossproffit (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:42 PM

17. Yep.

 

Here we refer to one very popular brewery as "Day care with beer."

That's fine, they do good business, but I dont go there often. Having the alternate option is nice.

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Response to grossproffit (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:59 PM

19. Then ban the behavior. n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:09 PM

24. Except everybody thinks their obnoxious child isn't obnoxious

 

The problem with exceptions is that everybody thinks they are one. This is consistent across the board and is thus a system that isn't open to making arbitrary distinctions. Is 3 screams okay but 4 isn't for example. That would leave the staff in a bad position and give them whatever bad publicity for people like you who aren't able to differentiate between racism and children, and not actually get the benefit of being an adult only place.

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Response to mythology (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:18 PM

28. Make it a private club - or make objective rules.

If you have objective rules, enforced by the restaurant, it doesn't matter what the parent thinks.

As to wanting the benefit of an adult only place - try that in housing and see how far you get. It's prohibited by the exact same law as the laws that prohibit discrimination based on race.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:40 PM

39. "no children" is an "objective rule". n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:17 PM

111. So is "no blacks" n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:10 PM

56. Again I would point out ...

... that this discussion is NOT about housing, nor is it about prohibiting children from a bar/restaurant based on race.

Why you can't understand that is beyond reason.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 01:33 AM

71. A lot of home owners' associations ban all children--and

they are able to do so.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #71)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:21 PM

112. Not legally, they are not. Which is largely my point

https://www.justice.gov/crt/fair-housing-act-1

Discrimination in Housing Based Upon Familial Status

The Fair Housing Act, with some exceptions, prohibits discrimination in housing against families with children under 18. In addition to prohibiting an outright denial of housing to families with children, the Act also prevents housing providers from imposing any special requirements or conditions on tenants with custody of children. For example, landlords may not locate families with children in any single portion of a complex, place an unreasonable restriction on the total number of persons who may reside in a dwelling, or limit their access to recreational services provided to other tenants. In most instances, the amended Fair Housing Act prohibits a housing provider from refusing to rent or sell to families with children. However, some facilities may be designated as Housing for Older Persons (55 years of age). This type of housing, which meets the standards set forth in the Housing for Older Persons Act of 1995, may operate as "senior" housing. The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has published regulations and additional guidance detailing these statutory requirements.



Family status is a protected class, as to housing. There's little reason that family statuts should be treated any different in any public accommodation.



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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #112)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:31 PM

118. So when movie theaters ban anyone under 17 from attending certain movies you think

they are violating the law?

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #118)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:46 PM

122. You may have noticed that when I am discussing illegal discrimination

I have limted that discussion to housing. The post to which you responded included the fair housing law, which generally bars discrimination on the basis of the age of family members.

It is discrimination to ban anyone under 17. Whether or not it is illegal discrimination is another matter. What you have asked about is also a different scenario - the movie theater ban is not to protect the sensibilities of the people who might be offended by noisy children. It is that society has made a judgment that the individual themself might be harmed by teh content.

I find class-based discrimination in public accommodations morally offensive, when the discrimination it to protect people from exposure to others in a different class (race, age, religion, gender). In most instances, it is also illegal.

My purpose is to point out that banning children for the purpose of avoiding contact with them is of the same nature as banning blacks or jews for the purpose of avoiding contact with them - and that at least in housing, the law recognizes the similarity.

Regulating behavior because the restaurant is formal, for example, is different matter. If you ban the troublesome behavior, anyone who can conform to the behavior requirements should be permitted to dine there. That might result not only in many children being unwelcome because their temperaments are not suited to the environment, or their parents are unwilling or unable to prevent them from (for example) running about between tables. But it might also some inebriated adults (for example) being unwelcome. A behavior-based ban would, however, directly address the concern being cited as justification for the ban on children.

It is also a different matter to regulate participation for emotional or physical safety (movies, certain amusement park rides that are designed in a manner that would be unsafe for most children just based on a difference in physical size - or - emotional impact)

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:06 AM

83. I have a child

and live in the (arguably) most child friendly neighborhood in Brooklyn. (Park Slope) If restaurants here banned kids, they'd not do well. That's just the way it is.

But if a restaurant wants to declare itself adult only and can survive the change, well, good for them. At times I may go without my child (if i have a sitter and it's GOOD enough to want to go.) I do like having adult only nights with a beer or wine.

I don't mind restaurants that are child friendly or ones that aren't so much. What's unusual here is that it's a pizza place. The pizza would have to be really really really good to get me in the door without a child. (Emily BK and Robertas in BK could do it! Frannys back when it was here.) But, again, all three of those allow kids.


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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #83)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:30 AM

89. Actually it's a microbrewery

I have no issues with not having children in what is essentially a bar

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:26 PM

116. There are more beer options than food options.

 

If my memory is correct they have all of three tables inside to eat at. More seats at the bar than at interior tables.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #116)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:31 PM

117. Exactly. Kids don't need to be there

It's a bar that serves food not a restaurant with a bar. There's a difference

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:06 AM

98. It is called 55+ communities

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #98)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:23 PM

114. That is the only significant exception,

and it is coupled with a requirement to provide additional services targeting the special needs of that population. So you can't just slap a 55+ label on your community and be good.

And you can't discriminate on the basis of family status unless you are a specially exempted community (like the 55+ with special services).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #114)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:47 PM

124. It is VERY significant in my area

It is to the point where if you want new construction and are under 55, you're basically SOL.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #124)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:00 PM

126. I'm not necessarly in agreement with the exception -

but there is an articulable reason (making additional services available to a perceived vulnerable population) for permitting class-membership-based discrimination.

And if it is simply new construction - not community-based new housing in which the management provides additional services targeted to the population - it is still illegal. You can't just plat out a new developmet and slap a 55+ label on it.

I was largely responding to the poster who said that it was perfectly legal to discriminate based on family status in housing.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:10 AM

86. Cue the "people without kids suck crew"

Just stop,

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:41 PM

120. You officially only have one other poster supporting your point of view in this

 

Just FYI

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:46 PM

4. Eh. They're trying to cater to a specific crowd. I don't mind it.

They'll lose some business from people with children, but they'll also pick up business from people who want a break from children.

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Response to bearsfootball516 (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:01 PM

5. I agree. I think there are enough pizza places around to allow some of them to make

the decision about whether or not to allow children.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:04 PM

6. Isn't that why Chuck E. Cheese exists?



PS: If such a place were in my neighborhood, they would get my business!

(assuming they have good pizza)

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Response to Coventina (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:04 PM

21. Chuck e cheese

Worst.pizza.ever.
And I've eaten alot of pizza.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:58 PM

43. Chuck E. Cheese: bring earplugs

When my daughter was in gradeschool she craved a birthday party at that place sooooooo much. We finally did it, but -- jeeze.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #43)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:23 PM

47. Had my son's first birthday party there

And it will be his last one there.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:05 PM

7. I have kids and don't have a problem with this. Some people let their kids act like animals

out in public. There are plenty of other dining options

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Response to Luciferous (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:03 PM

46. ..

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:47 PM

9. Oh boy, this should be interesting.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:56 PM

12. No problem. The place is called the Hampton Station Beer Garden.

 

Their main feature is beer, beer, loud live music and beer. Seating is very limited and they cater to beer drinkers. Did I tell you they are proud of their beer? Very small kitchen to serve the limited tables.

Beer list

http://www.zaisdank.com/drafts.html

Menu

http://www.zaisdank.com/bites.html

Not a photo of pizza on their homepage. But there is beer.

http://www.zaisdank.com


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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:07 AM

84. And they don't allow kids? ::Gasp::

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:20 PM

15. My wedding was no children please

I’m sure some folks felt that it was in poor taste and were perhaps offended. Many others told is how much they enjoyed and appreciated the notion.

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Response to JDC (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:18 PM

27. I applaud your decision not to take a child bride. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #27)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:21 PM

31. Lol. Touchay

Last edited Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:17 AM - Edit history (3)

It will not allow me to correctly enter the proper spelling

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Response to JDC (Reply #31)


Response to JDC (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:12 AM

75. I was going to do no children at mine.

 

Instead, I set up the second floor loft at the establishment and hired “sitters”. Bought a bunch of games. They had a blast. Of course that was the reception. They did well at the wedding. The cost to do this wasn’t minimal.

I was really teetering on the decision. My final decision had nothing to do with ethics or morals. A number of family members were bringing their children in from out of state and it was easiest for everyone.

My wedding did start a little late as we waited for my cousin and their crying child. I’m very close to them and would not get married without them. Formula put out the tears and the baby slept for the service. So you avoided possible stuff like that. No issue with your decision. I hope you had a great wedding.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #75)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:37 AM

91. I think that is a great idea. To do it over, I would have done that.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:02 PM

20. Breast-fed children should be welcome

And pit bulls.

And smokers.

And what else starts mega threads? Oh yeah—crying kids in theaters, what about them?

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:23 PM

32. I think men should be checked as to their circumcision status lol.

Yes, that would be another mega-thread.

Note to juries: this is simply a reference to the flame wars of old.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #32)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:32 PM

34. Oooo!

Forgot that one! Absolutely.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:35 PM

35. I dont think I participated in that one,

but it was a DU classic!

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:37 PM

36. And DO NOT ever use cornflakes

to make fried chicken!

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Response to cwydro (Reply #36)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:49 PM

42. We should have a segue into the topic of Olive Garden

We could work it in

If all else fails Kudzu.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:44 PM

51. Circumcised or non-circumcised? nt

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:55 PM

53. Psst...

Olive Garden

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:17 PM

26. We have adult only communities here in South Florida

I think it's kinda pathetic to not want to hear the sounds of kids playing in the streets, but it is their right.

A pizzeria? There must be thousands in the Tampa area.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:03 PM

45. There are 55 and over subdivisions in Arizona and South Carolina, too.

Anywhere there's a SunCity or other retirement communities.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #26)


Response to HopeAgain (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 01:34 AM

73. I work night shift, and still don't mind hearing the kids playing

I agree, I would not want to be where there was no children or young folk

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:23 AM

100. There is nothing pathetic about our adult only communities

And, as soon as I hit 55, I'm hoping to buy a condo in one.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #100)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:36 AM

106. Okay, I take back pathetic...

probably too strong of a word. But I think it is sad that society wants to segregate by ages. Historically, the elders helped take care of the young. This allowed for the wisdom of the mature members of the society to help influence the young. Also, I think children can be a great source of joy for people in the later stages of their life.

I know when I was a kid, the elderly lady neighbor who would bring us Popsicles while we played in the summer sun was just a much happier person that the old man who screamed at us for getting on his grass.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:32 PM

33. So children are off their menu now

Guess I'll have to order my toddler and mushroom pizza elsewhere.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #33)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:37 PM

37. You win the thread.

Lmao.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:38 PM

38. Why thank you

I am feeling rather pithy tonight. I appreciate the validation.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #33)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:28 PM

49. Dominos delivers

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:31 PM

50. Speaking as the parent of a toddler, I have no objection to it.

Unfortunately far too many parents let their little miracles run wild in restaurants and there are plenty of other pizzerias around.

Sometimes I would like to enjoy a dinner date with my partner without somebody's Dakota or Hailey running around screaming their heads off.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #50)


Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:56 PM

54. Good. Parents can take their kids somewhere else.

 

There is a market for both types of restaurants. Find one that suits you.

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Response to liquid diamond (Reply #54)


Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:08 PM

55. "childrens safety is of paramount importance"

From the linked article:

The no-kids decision, he (Troy Taylor) said, was the end result of "a lot of people who couldn’t keep their kids under control."
He wouldn’t share specifics, but pointed to a recent incident as the catalyst.

He ... pointed to a recent incident as the catalyst. He’s sure he would have been sued had the worst happened.
"A kid was in danger and could have seriously been hurt," he said. "It’s a liability and safety issue. After the incident, I thought, this can’t happen again."

While behavior expectations in church are fairly spelled-out, expectations in a pub are a little murkier.
And for hospitality workers, different parenting styles and comfort levels with supervision make it unclear whose responsibility is it to keep kids safe.

All sides agree that children’s safety is of paramount importance.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:12 AM

76. The man's answer was perfectly reasonable.

 

It sounds like he just doesn't want to deal with the bullshit of irresponsible parents looking for a lawsuit the minute they fuck up and want to blame everyone else.

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Response to RhodeIslandOne (Reply #76)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:47 AM

107. I think ...

Some parents take their kids to a place and expect the staff to take care of their kids while the parents have fun.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #107)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 07:27 PM

139. 100% agree n/m

 

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:22 PM

58. When my now-25 yr old...

...younger son was 9 months old, he had little casts on his feet to straighten out the forefoot. We were visiting my parents in the Finger Lakes are of central New York, and were out at a restaurant one evening. The place had a very old wooden high chair. After just a few minutes in it, aforementioned younger son began to bang his casted feet on the wooden chair, making a hell of a noise.

Encouraging him to stop proved immediately and entirely worthless, so I picked him up out of the chair, and back he and I went to my parents' cottage. My family brought me my dinner when they got done. No way was I going to stay there and try to keep an active 9 month old quiet while making myself miserable, and drawing the ire of everyone around us.

I have no problem with this restaurant's decision.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #58)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:39 PM

65. Sounds like the kind of decision I would have made when mine were little. Other people have a right

...to the peaceful enjoyment of a night out, too.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:15 AM

77. Thank you

 

My parents did the same if I ever acted up.

Parents nowadays for the most part will not hear of such an inconvenience.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:20 PM

62. Well, that sucks. Who's gonna be the

designated driver if I can't bring my 5 year old? Although I guess he can wait out in the car with the rottweilers...

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:26 PM

63. Should keep Trump out

n/t

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:30 PM

64. It's against their religion, don't ya know.

Freedom of religion to the letter. It's stated clearly in The Book of Mushrooms.

Of course, drunks, perverts, and nudity are permitted. That's in The Book of Thick Crust.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:03 AM

66. Best way to get revenge: order take-out from Hampton Station and feed it to your kids.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:35 AM

67. People shouldn't be bringing their children to beer gardens. Or bars.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #67)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:38 AM

92. Agreed -- it should be a nobrainer

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Response to boston bean (Reply #67)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:11 AM

99. Or Las Vegas.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)


Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:31 AM

79. Wouldn't it have been great if he'd been running a Chuck E. Cheese?

 

Last edited Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:19 PM - Edit history (1)

"Damn, Lloyd, we've had no business all week. What's the problem?"

"Uh, sir...you know that new rule you just put in....?"

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:17 AM

80. I get it, but what if they say no stroke or Alzheimers patients?

No patrons who drool or need bibs? Some kids misbehave while others are angels. Do the sins of the few condemn everyone in that category?

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Response to mainer (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:24 AM

101. What in the world do stroke and Alzheimer's patients have to do with this?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #101)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 04:00 PM

135. Theyre excluding customers by age.

Couldn’t you exclude customers who are seniors and demented as well? That’s the question.

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Response to mainer (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:07 AM

108. If you had read the article, this policy was enacted because of irresponsible parents

who were not monitoring their unruly kids. He averted one catastrophe, and then decided "no more."

This has nothing to do with people with disabilities.

I suppose if people starting letting Alzheimers patients just wander into traffic, then maybe there would be a comparison.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #108)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:22 PM

132. Couldnt the owners just throw out the unruly ones?

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #132)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:27 PM

133. They could, but what about when the owners are not there?

I think the owner just wanted a simple, blanket policy.

That way, his employees aren't left to decide what is unruly and what isn't.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 04:02 AM

81. Yes the owner has the right

Maybe I am a horrible person for feeling this way, but kids don't belong in bars.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #81)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 04:55 AM

82. About a year ago

 

I went to a pizza/bar to pick up an order with my then 14 year old. There were some college kids sitting at a table and the boy was pretty drunk. His conversation was about sex (a lamentation, if you will.........).

My daughter, who is pretty protected (just where she was raised, really) - was horrified.

The kids were just being college kids - and they had a right to a semi-adult convo. But my daughter had a right not to have to hear drunks. If she were even younger (and why not, kids are certainly allowed in there - and we have friends with very young kids who go there) - well, it would have been much worse.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:09 AM

85. GOOD! Adults deserve some spaces that are theirs

THis country is insane with not understanding this.

Waiting to read all of teh BUT HOW ABOUT THE OBNOXIOUS ADULTS HUH HUH HUH

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:27 AM

88. A pizza and craft beer establishment has the right to ban children if it

wants to. There are plenty of places where kids can go.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:30 AM

90. I have two young kids and I have no problem with this.

 

The kid friendly places get our custom because we have kids. If we want to go out ourselves we get a babysitter.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:42 AM

93. I have kids and don't have a problem with it

Many establishments are not really made for kids anyway. There's a local brewery here that is VERY strict 21+. I saw them turn away a couple with an infant. I asked the owner why and he said two reasons. 1. It's a bar primarily. He doesn't think kids need to be in bars and sometimes adults like to escape to places without kids. I find that valid as a parent. 2. He said this way he also doesn't need to deal with under age drinkers. Over 21 fine. Under 21 and you aren't there.

I have another friend in Florida who owns a craft beer bar/craft grub place. He does allow kids but ut is a huge pain int he butt. He has a very limited menu due to mostly crafty gastro pub eats and really most things kids won't want to eat. He also doesn't really have space at his tables for high chairs, etc. Again, a more adult place to visit. He doesn't ban kids but he doesn't encourage them to visit either.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 07:28 AM

94. My socks aren't matching.

 

My socks aren't matching.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #94)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:24 AM

102. lol

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 07:54 AM

95. This was disconcerting to me when I moved to Florida in 1973

I grew up in Atlanta, and as I remember, in Georgia a child could not be in a bar, but in Fl they were everywhere, even in the lowest of dive bars it was like a day care center

Good for Hampton Station

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:04 AM

96. They have the right to do it. Comes off pretty dickish to me, though. NT

 

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #96)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:25 AM

103. It isn't dickish at all

Good lord.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #103)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 10:06 AM

110. Imma disagree.

 

In general, I prefer to exclude people by behavior, instead by type. I guess I prefer a more warm and welcoming kind of place. But then again, I like kids. I know not everyone does. That kind of place would turn me off.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #110)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:42 PM

121. I don't find welcoming children into an establishment....

 

where the beer menu is larger than the food menu, and there are more inside seats at the bar than at tables, to be warm and welcoming.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:05 AM

97. Just have topless wait staff and no sign will be needed.

I mean, who wants to bring a child into a place where he or she might see some hairy-chested waiter?

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:27 AM

105. There's one here with two areas, one for families and the other

is the bar area and porch seating. Everybody's happy.

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Response to Phentex (Reply #105)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:12 AM

109. We have one like that here

Of course, the parents let the kids run all over the place. The owner called some parents out when the were using the q-sticks as swords.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:00 PM

127. I would handle this differently...

On menus or some place people can easily and readily read it, I would be very upfront about expectations.

No children running around unaccompanied, no *excessive* (yes, subjective) screaming, etc etc etc "Parents, please take your children outside at appropriate moments", verbiage to that effect.

If someone gets outraged and leaves...ok. They can go to a restaurant where their precious perfect child can do anything.

I had a child myself but I can understand other people having problems with screaming, running around, etc.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:13 PM

130. I go to this bar/restaurant once in a while, its very small and right next to a very busy street.

 

It’s not a great area, a lot of homeless, prostitutes, drug addicts, and sex offenders mill along the street.

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #130)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:18 PM

131. yep, Nebraska Avenue is not the best place in Tampa, been there nt

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #130)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:35 PM

140. Ah yes, the article mentions "unsavory" people in the area

I reckon those customers are not welcomed in the establishment either

ETA: it was the restaurant owner whom referenced "unsavory element lurking in nearby hotels"

Not the best promotion for your place, Einstein

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:59 PM

134. Thought experiment: what if every restaurant in town adopted this policy

And there was no place to take your kids?
In general, I find excluding any class of citizens, whether by age, race, or religion, to be worrisome.

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Response to mainer (Reply #134)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 04:06 PM

137. My thought experiment ends with: BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY!

There is a market for family restaurants, a huge one.

They often even put "Family" in the name!

Restaurants aim themselves at a particular clientele. A place that focuses on beer doesn't strike me as a place that also wants to cater to children.

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Response to keen observer (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 04:04 PM

136. Im a senior. And I think this policy sucks.

There are many well-behaved kids. You are discriminating by class of citizen, tossing them all out because of a few bad apples. I once ate at a very expensive restaurant in Italy where children and grandparents all dined, and the waiters were wonderful with the kids. Italians, at least, have the attitude that kids are part of life.

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Response to mainer (Reply #136)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:28 PM

138. Two things

1. Kids in Europe absolutely do not get taken out to eat like American kids, esp in France and Italy. Italians, of which I am one, absolutely do not have that attitude. Adult space is adult space.

2. Children are not a "class of citizens." Y'all in this thread saying that are being dramatic and ridiculous.

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