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Sat Oct 28, 2017, 01:48 PM

Per Watergate, Trump cannot legally fire Mueller

The usual story of the Saturday Night Massacre is not the full story. Once the special prosecutor was fired, a congressman filed a lawsuit to have him reinstated. Under similar regulations to the ones Mueller was appointed under, the judge ruled that Cox could not be fired without a showing of good cause. Cox opted not to take the job back because a new special prosecutor had already been appointed and was pursuing the case. So nothing changed anyway.

While it's true that Trump has been attacking Mueller for conflicts of interest and what not, none of the things they've mentioned are actual conflicts of interest. Also, Mueller has been in office since May, the time to raise a conflict of interest legal challenge was in May, not when an indictment is coming. Trump may be dumb, but I am quite certain his lawyers and advisors have told him how the Saturday Night Massacre backfired on Nixon. Except maybe Kushner. Who was wrong about Comey, so he is probably just going to keep his mouth shut now.




https://stanforddailyarchive.com/cgi-bin/stanford?a=d&d=stanford19731115-01.2.2&e=-------en-20--21--txt-txIN-student+army+training+corps------

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Response to marylandblue (Original post)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:01 PM

1. could the ruling be appealed to the supreme court?

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:10 PM

3. Of course. n/t

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Response to marylandblue (Original post)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:10 PM

2. "congressman filed a lawsuit to have him reinstated." - the judge in the case did not reinstate him.

From:
Cox's Ouster Ruled Illegal, No Reinstatement Ordered
( http://www.nytimes.com/1973/11/15/archives/coxs-ouster-ruled-illegal-no-reinstatement-ordered-dismissal-of-cox.html )

While the decision did not order Mr, Cox reinstated,

Cox was not reinstated, decided not to pursue the issue, and it never went to the Supreme Court as other important Watergate-related issues did.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:13 PM

4. But look why COx was not reinstated.

 

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Response to marylandblue (Original post)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:17 PM

5. Off to the Greatest

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Response to marylandblue (Original post)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:18 PM

6. I don't get the sense

 

That Trump really cares about what he can and cannot do, and he certainly doesn't care about traditional political norms. If he think Mueller is a problem he'll fire him, because Trump has zero concept of accountability.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:47 PM

8. My point is that it will badly backfire legally and politically

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:49 PM

9. Oh, I get that

 

Though I'm not sure it would backfire politically -- I think most Republicans in Congress lack any sort of patriotism or honor, and wouldn't support impeachment even if Trump is indicted. The FoxNews viewers would just claim this is some sort of "liberal" conspiracy created by Bill Ayers, President Obama, the Illuminati, and deep state.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 04:37 PM

10. Yes. He's the sort to fire Mueller just to delay the investigation & make things harder. nt

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Response to marylandblue (Original post)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:32 PM

7. True, but Trump could pressure Rosenstein

to fire Mueller by threatening to fire or replace him if he didnít. My sense is that Rosenstein does not play ball with Executive interference and would call Trumpís bluff. Trump and those around him know that if Trump fires Rosenstein, we go to full constitutional crisis. But desperate sociopaths like these might not care.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 04:44 PM

12. I think Rosenstein is already on record as stating he would not fire Mueller....

except for cause shown. But then Rosenstein recommended Comey be fired, remember? So....

Trump would hire someone or go to the next lower level to get someone to fire Mueller. That's the goal. Whether it goes to the Supreme court is inconsequential to him. The only thing that would matter is interfering or stopping the investigation by Mueller.

The appeal to the S.Ct. would have to have an injunction in it, ordering Mueller stay in his job until S.Ct. decides the case. But even so, that would still interfere with the progress of the investigation.

It's a win-win for Trump, but only in the short term, maybe.

Mueller gone for a few weeks, a mole in the FBI (the new FBI Director), and a mole heading the DOJ (just passed committee confirmation), and an AG Sessions who is more a lapdog than a man (even tho on paper he is recused...that is not the way the real world works)....that would do it. Trump would be cleared.

The only thing that would stop Mueller leaving as soon as it happens, is if the Congress had passed that bill that required Congressional Review of special counsel firing. But it didn't pass the bill (isn't that interesting?).

It's possible Mueller would be gone only a week or two. He WILL be gone, if Trump fires him, though. They'll walk him out the door asap.

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Response to marylandblue (Original post)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 04:42 PM

11. I do believe Trump can put pressure on Rosenstein (or his replacement) to fire Mueller.

However, Democrats said they would pass a bill in Congress to reinstate them. They would probably have enough willing Republican cooperation to get it through.

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 28, 2017, 04:46 PM

13. Rosenstein is on record that he wouldn't fire Mueller, except for good cause.

I think Sessions & Rosenstein, both, (altho Sessions is supposed to "recused" haha), have drawn the line on firing a special counsel. In any case, Trump will get Mueller fired, if he wants.

The bill in Congress has not passed. Lindsay Graham introduced it in the Senate, AND NO OTHER REPUBLICANS WOULD SIGN ON AS CO-SPONSORS. So it's just sitting there. Altho it does take time to pass a bill. The House has a similar bill just waiting, but not passed.

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