Why do we trust Mueller?

[garybeck]

Last edited Fri Oct 20, 2017, 05:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Just wondering why so many of us, including myself, seem to be putting so much faith in a person, a Republican himself, who was first appointed to the head of the FBI by someone named Bush, and is currently appointed by a person who was appointed by Trump.

There seems to be a strange faith held by many Democrats that this guy is different, and for some reason is going to save our country and the world. Or even try.

if this ends up being nothing more than a whitewash.... Should we be surprised?

[Pachamama]

1. Sometimes, you have to trust because you have no other option

And hope that he is the sheriff with integrity is the best we have at this point...otherwise we have no hope and only despair....and a lost Republic...

[whathehell]

3. Exactly. n/t

[ehrnst]

14. Yep. (nt)

[Joe941]

29. this.

[gordianot]

2. My trust factor with anyone Republican is low.

Trump and his agenda intersects with Republicans at the same time he is a traitor and is a Nationalist Fascist who is also mentally ill. Here is hoping Mueller the old Cold War warrior is blow back and a future Democratic House can dispose the greatest threat to human survival. Trump’s mental state is fragile he scares as much as he is scared.

[mdbl]

4. Mueller is all you got

Where do you go from there?

[kentuck]

5. Because Mueller is the only buffer between our government and revolt?

They seem to be on the track to clear Trump, or not find enough evidence to indict on anything, but to find a couple of scapegoats that trump can pardon after the charade is over.

I don't have a lot of confidence that the guilty party will be convicted of anything.

[garybeck]

6. Yup

Find a couple scapegoats and the charade is over

[Solomon]

16. This is what I keep telling people. He'll just nail a low level

scapegoat and Trump will run around gloating that he's been completely exonerated.

[patricia92243]

7. Because we HAVE to. The other choice is to trust Trump.

[coolsandy]

8. It's more like "hoping in Mueller" rather than "trusting in Mueller."

[Vinca]

9. He's our last, best hope to save the country.

[kentuck]

10. How do we know that at this very moment Trump's people are not talking with Robert Mueller?

And they want him to finish his investigation?

[n2doc]

11. I remember Fitzmas

This has happened over and over. People want a good ending with Trump and co frogmarched out of power. And it is quite apparent that we aren't getting it (impeachment) from this CONgress. I doubt that we will be getting satisfaction from the Special Prosecutor either.

[kentuck]

17. If he was going to find something...?

...wouldn't he have done it by now??

If there was even a possibility that what he was investigating was true, would there not be more of an urgency?

Or is this bigger than any Special Prosecutor or the US Government?

Too big to bust?

[mythology]

18. People have no sense of patience

Watergate took more than two years before Nixon resigned.

If something is important, it's important to do it right. All the doom and gloom is really unhelpful.

[kentuck]

19. Time will tell.

I would think.

[Hortensis]

33. +1000! Some posts here seem almost determinedly demoralizing,

as if to undermine all belief in the strength of our systems.

Systems developed by previous generations that have served us for decades to centuries.

We DUers are not in government. Why bother to undermine our belief that we will prevail over evil?

Oh! 2018!!!! When OUR OWN TURNING OUT TO VOTE will restore us to power in congress. Or not.

[gvstn]

46. I'm hoping he wants to lock it down tight.

He isn't going to get much help from Congress so he wants any charges to be irrefutable. It might mean something less dramatic but if he charges then he will want no wiggle room.

[LanternWaste]

39. It's emotionally convenient, yet logically flawed to equate the two.

It's emotionally convenient, yet logically flawed to equate the two. Neither is predicated, directly or indirectly on the precedents or outcomes of the other.

[n2doc]

45. I am equating how people are responding to the two situations

And predicting that they will end in the same, disappointing manner.

But keep on believing! Maybe Lucy won't pull the football away this time...

[Honeycombe8]

12. I don't "trust" him. I don't know him. I'd say there's nothing in his history, that I know of,....

to indicate that he would not do his job. This does NOT mean that he will conclude what I would conclude, when faced with the same evidence. But he has an A reputation for being impartial, thorough, great at his work, and honest.

I do think it should have been a Democrat appointed as special counsel, just as it was a Republican one named for Bill Clinton. But it is what it is.

I think the biggest danger is that he does nothing, but turns it over to the DOJ and/or Congress. We KNOW that the DOJ & Congress will do nothing, no matter the evidence. We cannot rely on them to protect our country.

[Dave Starsky]

13. I don't. And I won't be surprised if this goes nowhere.

I hope people aren't devastated if/when this whole thing ends up being a popcorn fart in a whirlwind.

This has gone on long enough for enough documentation to be destroyed, and enough cover stories straightened out, to at least provide a thin veneer of plausible deniability. Just enough to say, "Well, nothing to see here, folks", and then go on with the business of raping and pillaging America.

I have said it all along: Donald Trump will be President for as long as he wants to be there. If we want him out of office, we're going to have to make him want to leave.

[0nirevets]

15. We Should Not Trust Mueller

Mueller is moving at a snail's pace BECAUSE he is a Republican. I believe Mueller is sitting on actionable evidence of criminal acts by DJT and his whole crew along with McConnell, Ryan, and a host of other participants, but that instead of indictments, he is trying to find a way NOT to recommend charges or to prosecute anyone, especially DJT. I think Mueller is taking so long because he's looking for a scapegoat, DJT's Scooter Libby if you will, and nothing more.

Nothing would have come of all of this if DJT had not fired Comey. But DJT is an idiot. So Republicans scrambled to get Mueller, and he is merely the current professional obstructionist, and he's only there because the evidence is strong and Republicans needed a strong insider to keep a lid on it.

I believe there will not be any impeachment proceedings or criminal charges brought for treason against anyone, UNLESS and until enough Democrats are elected to shift the majority in Congress.

Republicans don't hold fellow Republicans accountable for anything, ever. We've seen this in the recent past (Iraq) when actionable crimes were committed at the highest levels of government, including Bush, Cheney, Powell and their henchmen, and not a thing was done about any of it. Poor little Scooter Libby was eventually scapegoated. That was it.

Republicans are rotten to the core. Every last one of them. I hope I'm wrong.

[lostnfound]

20. Because the media keep telling us over and over and over and over that he is soooo honorable

Which is not a good sign

Last thing left in Pandora's box is hope.

[garybeck]

43. you are the only one who gave the correct answer in my opinion

the media (which I will say has been doing an OK job) has been hammering that Mueller is objective and all that. I'm just not so sure why they are so insistent on telling us that so often, and event prominent Democrats have said that.

someone is definitely trying to convince us Dems and Liberals that Mueller has integrity. and it seems to be working because in spite of his history and connections to the republican party, I (and many others) seem to think he's an honorable guy.

I posted this because I took a step back and realized there are some red flags here and I shouldn't be putting so much faith and trust in this guy.

[lostnfound]

47. Mueller stole in 9-11 investigation left me with uneasy feelings

Is he a circumspect man of integrity who is necessarily careful with classifi d information or is he the ideal guy for sweeping the right stuff under the rug and tying the rest up in a neat little package for mass consumption? Certain illusions must be maintained.

I don't know. Both doubt and belief can be sown for nefarious reasons.

[HAB911]

21. Drowning people will grasp at anything

[Kingofalldems]

22. It's all we have until 2018.

[kentuck]

23. So we are to assume that Democrats would impeach?

I am not certain of that...?

[Kingofalldems]

24. Or they hold Trump in check for 2020.

[kentuck]

25. Good point.

There is no need to impeach if they cannot convict.

[Hortensis]

31. Wow. Trump unconvictable on ANY possible charge?

Interesting notion you're offering here.

Wish the Repubs felt that way when they were going after the Clinton administration. They impeached him but of course were unable to convict and remove him from office.

For all the belief of some here in our party's amaaazing incompetence, I'm pretty sure we can do better than that with what Mueller and his team are putting together.

And if he were sufficiently insulated from the crimes of those around him -- extremely unlikely given the massive corruption and incompetence of everyone involved -- we'd always have the emoluments clause of the constitution. May seem like a disappointing little backup compared to seditious and treasonous activities, of course, but even that would yield many outrageous stories for the evening news.

[Hortensis]

26. No, we have Trump and we have a Repub Party at war. :)

Seriously, that we are "out of power" hardly means we are without power.

And these days we're, quite frankly, smarter and more competent than they are. In general, the more extreme their legislators and legislative efforts have become, the more stupid and less competent. Just look at their handling of healthcare alone. They can't run a republic even halfway competently because of their extremism.

We know their stringpullers like the Kochs are tremendously frustrated and angry, that in spite of getting control of most of our federal government, they can't move ahead with their plans for dismantling. A big part of that is that our people are maximizing the legislative dysfunction of the really low-grade, corrupt slough that is currently the Republican congress. That we can do.

And even though we may not have the legislature, we have the law, thousands of laws passed by congresses past that this one can't get its act together to repeal as needed--with help from us. Plus we're using the courts and media to block many the illegal actions they absolutely would take if we didn't exist.

Guerrilla warfare, maybe, block and sabotage, but it is warfare, with battles every day.

Oh, and we often have big business, whole industries, on our side. They want their tax and regulatory breaks all right, but a lot of what this congress is doing is extremely bad for business, so business needs all the help they can get from us to stop it.

[blueinredohio]

27. We have to have one bright spot

[Historic NY]

28. Beacuse the more the WH growls about him, then we know he is on the hunt

closing in on target.

[moda253]

35. Could be all part of the show

They hem and haw about it and then in the end when he gets off the hook they can say "See I told ya".

I don't have much faith in him either.

[garybeck]

44. how do you know that's not a show?

it would make no sense for Mueller and White House to seem like buddies. Then we would all know it's a whitewash from the beginning.

the only way to get this to work is to give the appearance that it is a real investigation with integrity, clashes with the White House, and then have it conclude there is nothing to prosecute.

[Blue_Tires]

30. Because we don't have any alternative

and if Mueller is just fucking around literally the only option we'll have left is an old-fashioned African-style coup and that's a road I really don't want to go down...

[Amishman]

32. I don't. The proof will be in the findings

[MrsCoffee]

34. For some reason the Ashcroft incident gives me hope.

That’s about all I got.

[kentuck]

36. Perhaps the Democrats will win the next election...

and it will once again be time to "move forward"?

[lunasun]

37. I expect nothing from the investigation . I would love to be wrong.

[CK_John]

38. We will be lucky if he comes up with a few "cement mobsters" or

some ice seller firm taking fund from FEMA under the table.

[bluestarone]

40. i kinda feel

the same way and don't put too much faith in Mueller, but what choice do we have right?

[H2O Man]

41. Recommended.

Great question. Very important discussion following. Thank you for this.

You are correct -- Mr. Mueller is a very conservative man. He follows the law by the book. Sometimes, that is actually a good thing; for example, when Scooter Libby was on trial, some good DUers expressed concern, because the judge was a conservative republican. I noted (several times) that this was to our benefit. The judge did not allow the defense room to wiggle.

Mr. Mueller belongs to a sub-group of what was once the mainstream of the republican party. This group is, of course, distinct from the rabid right-wing that hijacked the party after Obama's election in 2008. This sub-group fully expected Jeb Bush to be their 2016 candidate. By and large, they would have preferred any of the other republican primary candidates, or even Ms. Clinton, to have been elected. They recognize Trump and the Bannon crowd as a danger to their established order.

Hence, we witness even George W. Bush delivering a blistering anti-Trump speech. (Despite "official" denials, I can say with certainty that all of the living ex-presidents have been in contact with each other, to form a united front against Trump.) More, "mainstream" republicans like McCain and Corker have also spoken out publicly against him. The machine is intent upon dislodging Trump before he inflicts more damage.

Mr. Mueller may not have the exact same motivations as Democrats in this case, but he is opposed to Trump per the Russian mob influence. It i8s likely that he will go with an obstruction charge, because that is what is easiest to prove in a court of law -- much like Mr. Fitzgerald's charges against Libby were the easiest to insure convictions. In socio-political terms, we should recognize that our opposition is not always our enemy -- that status should be left for Trump, Bannon, etc -- thus, our opposition on some issues may be on the correct side (our side) on other issues.

[librechik]

42. "Help me Obi Wan Kenobi. You're our only hope!"

I gave up on the US once I figured out our votes don't matter. Really really really. (See the Boston Globe story in my sig line.) They really don't.

Oh, and the rich with their captive armies are prepared to brazenly murder our leaders if any real progress for the plebes is threatened. And then pretend it never happened. And get away with it. Forever.

Sad. World-wide cell phone penetration makes the technical reality of one-person-one vote within our grasp. That could mean real democracy.

However, the rich and their captive armies will do anything to avoid that eventuality, including kicking the can down the road to the next generation while ignoring the suffering that goes on right now. After all, they're still profiting off cell phones culture. They don't want to shut them down yet.

They need to slow down response to ocean temperature rise and greenhouse gases. Mitigation and preparation is expensive. The sooner the end comes, the better. And they profit from the years of pain and disaster.

If they can just make it through (AND keep their bloated riches) until we all die from global climate change...

They'll be the last to go, and in such fabulous comfort "as the world has never seen before"

[Hugin]

48. My trust is wavering.

I suspect most of what Mueller accomplishes will be filed away in boxes stored in a parking garage... Just like the Iran-Contra investigation.