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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:03 PM

President Obama loves fracking

He thinks it can be done safely.

He thinks it's cool to burn natural gas for the next 100 years.

I pretty much disagree with that.

“Nat­ural gas actu­ally burns cleaner than some other fos­sil fuels,” the Demo­c­ra­tic incum­bent said in reply to an audi­ence ques­tion. “It’s an ideal energy source that we poten­tially could use for the next 100 years.

“So I want to encour­age nat­ural gas pro­duc­tion. The key is to make sure that we do it safely and in a way that is envi­ron­men­tally sound.”

The prac­tice pop­u­larly called “frack­ing,” region­ally con­cen­trated so far in east­ern Ohio and neigh­bor­ing Penn­syl­va­nia, involves ground injec­tions of chem­i­cally treated flu­ids at high pres­sure to frac­ture shale deposits and free oil and nat­ural gas trapped inside.

“There are a lot of folks right now who are engag­ing in hydraulic frac­tur­ing who are doing it safely,” Mr. Obama said. “The prob­lem is that we haven’t estab­lished clear guide­lines of how to do it safely and to inform the pub­lic, so that neigh­bors know what’s going on. … Look, we are going to work with indus­try to estab­lish best prac­tices. We are going to invest in the basic research and sci­ence to make sure this is done safely and in a way that pro­tects the pub­lic health.
...

http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2012/07/17/obama-backs-fracking-during-campaign-appearance/

41 replies, 4152 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply President Obama loves fracking (Original post)
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 OP
bluestateguy Jul 2012 #1
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #15
Robb Jul 2012 #2
lonestarnot Jul 2012 #4
Robb Jul 2012 #9
DURHAM D Jul 2012 #10
darkangel218 Jul 2012 #3
progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #11
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #13
freshwest Jul 2012 #24
MrMickeysMom Jul 2012 #14
darkangel218 Jul 2012 #17
MrMickeysMom Jul 2012 #37
OverseaVisitor Jul 2012 #5
freshwest Jul 2012 #23
NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #6
TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #21
tblue Jul 2012 #36
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #25
NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #35
Angry Dragon Jul 2012 #7
XemaSab Jul 2012 #8
progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #12
one_voice Jul 2012 #16
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #18
GarroHorus Jul 2012 #19
DevonRex Jul 2012 #20
Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #22
joshcryer Jul 2012 #32
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #34
Summer Hathaway Jul 2012 #26
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #28
Summer Hathaway Jul 2012 #29
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #30
Summer Hathaway Jul 2012 #31
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2012 #27
joshcryer Jul 2012 #33
woo me with science Jul 2012 #38
Enrique Jul 2012 #39
polichick Jul 2012 #40
woo me with science Jul 2012 #41

Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:09 PM

1. Then why do his enemies say he isn't?

Just asking.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:31 PM

15. Maybe they don't know how to read.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:09 PM

2. It probably can.

Heaps of regulations can make about anything safe. There are probably situations where fracking is a perfectly safe thing to do. Unfortunately, there are also spots where it's a horrible idea.

The likelihood of the industry surviving the necessary level of regulation required to keep things like ground water safe seems pretty low, just given the expense of proper studies to establish those regulations.

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Response to Robb (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:12 PM

4. What? Are you saying gas cos. can't afford to be regulated or that they can't afford to do the

 

studies?

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:18 PM

9. Neither.

I'm saying that the cost to ensure all fracking is done safely will make fracking too expensive a process to be viable.

If I know this administration, that's probably the plan: lip service followed by draconian regulation. Hope I'm right.

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Response to Robb (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:24 PM

10. "probably situations where fracking is a perfectly safe thing"

That situation is not knowable.

IMO Obama is being poorly advised. IOWs I think he believes what he is being told by his advisers but he has the wrong people in the room. I hope someone who is not fluffing for the industry gets his ear and attention soon.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:11 PM

3. limpy, do you get paid to infiltrate left wing groups?

 

Just curious.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:26 PM

11. thank you for that. I'm getting tired of these posts since all hell broke lose on Romney's side. n/t

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:28 PM

13. I wish. That sounds like easy money.

The President makes his own energy policy. A lot of people think it stinks.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:08 AM

24. Really, that dog won't hunt.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:29 PM

14. You think that's what this is?

I think it's a difference of opinion...

Lots of data to be analyzed regarding the benefit to risk ratio in hydraulic fracturing, and many ALEC laws are pushing it down the throats of the state legislators.

Obama likes them corporations, or didn't you understand that?

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:33 PM

17. im not a moderator but

 

You two should go back to wherever you came from. No room in here for right wing propaganda.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:40 AM

37. I can only speak from whence I came...

Which, is the world of reading, checking facts for the record and comparing what is going on in the real world.

Surely, you should check with a moderator, if you don't understand what you are confusing this with.

This industry is being pushed down the throats of states as a revenue generator, while the great consequences of tracking on the environment have only begun to be examined.

Now, I ask you, if you have policy to support industry such as wind, solar and geothermal in your state, doesn't that invite an industry that does NOT risk environmental and health of citizens? READ about some state government officials in areas who want this type of investment.

Yet, we hear positive comments about fracking from our president, which when countered, are "right wing propaganda?"

Who's misinformed here? Ask a mod, since your response is irresponsible and ridiculous.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:13 PM

5. I read

 

He is looking at future need. That is his job to take care of the people and the country.

4th paragraph state the problems as he see it and also state that investment in basic research and science.

Give the guy a break. World is not black or white.

Claiming he love fracking is a distortion.

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Response to OverseaVisitor (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:34 AM

23. Agreed. I grew up in a state where the primary source of energy was natural gas. Not nuclear, coal,

Or any of the others, it was used for everything. There are safe ways to get natural gas and it has a long history:

http://naturalgas.org/overview/history.asp

Fracking is not the only way to get natural gas. Obama did not say he loves fracking, full steam ahead. He said within regulations.

The problem has been states with tea bagger legislators and governors who are giving frackers full rein to do this irresponsibly. So I also say give Obama a break and investigate, not go with the increasingly rightist NPR.

I'm dead set against fracking when water tables are liable to be pollued. The problem is that the local people are divided. Anyone has watched the movie Gasland, knows this conflict. Some want to sell their rights to the minerals beneath their land, with no regard for the effects on their neighbors. The producer claims the people were ignorant and misled. IDK.

You can listen to a PBS discussion here:

http://www-tc.pbs.org/now/rss/media/NOW-613.mp3

Or read a page on the film here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Land

Unfortunately, the industry is now pushing this and must be regulated until it is literally stopped from doing this in all but the safest situations. But than that, we must defeat the Koch and others who threatening to take over completely. We piss and moan about a lot of stuff and don't have solutions.

We have not as a country done what other countries have done to make use of methane and energy from other sources, we don't have to kill ourselves over this one. And just in case, anyone thinks I am an apologetic for the fossil fuel and other energy industries, having grown up around this industry and been associated and well informed by members of the OCAW in years past, I'll say this.

I never, ever, give these guys the benefit of the doubt. As far as I'm concerned, they are guilty until proven innocent, and I'm not likely to change my mind.

It is a filthy business, implicated in the overthrow of regimes such as in Iran, the propping up of tyrants, and going to war. It destroys the environment and steals the natural bounty of the Earth from people across the globe, it is part a cabal that never gets enough.

But we are not transformed yet into a society that is ready to do without it. So Obama has to keep all the options open, but remember, he has not agreed to Keystone but it is being shot up in our faces at every single bill the baggers are putting through, like cutting funding from Planned Parenthood and suppressing the vote in America. That's NOT Obama's fault it is our fault for not voting these regressives out.

Ignorance on the history of the use of natural gas does not advance the fight against fracking, and not offering solutions and ensationalist pieces smearing Obama is not helpful. A reasoned case could be made, but this is simply, by virtue of the title which NPR put on it, is dishonest. EOM, as this is just MHO.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:13 PM

6. His position is quite realistic and reasonable, all things considered.

 

And it will likely take 100 years to fully transition away from fossil fuels, even under the best circumstances.

We will need to hold government to the safety aspect of these statements.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:30 AM

21. There is no such thing as "reasonable" threatening the water in such a fashion.

There is no possible "political reality" that will change such a fundamental need for life.

Holding a government to the safety aspect is almost crazy talk. There is no "how". There is no such capacity to independently provide oversight to do such a thing in a serious fashion. When our guys let the inmates run the asylum we have no actual recourse and even if someone is held accountable without making matters worse you still can't get the toothpaste back in the tube.

Without real world capacity to provide oversight and actively enforce regulations backed by the will to do so all the legislation in the world is nothing but words on paper.

Wildly irresponsible and touch and go with suicidal is not "reasonable" at all.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:35 AM

36. Will they serve fracked water at the debates?

I had this fantasy, during the Repub debates, of the drinkung water served on the podiums being revealed as from fracked sources. The debaters should be told about ir and then asked if they are willing to drink it. I'd've paid good money to see the look on their faces.

Obama is trying to walk a fine line, as usual, taking both sides at the same time. As if anyone should try to justify greater damage to this fragile planet. He's good at that taking both sides though, I'll give him that.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:20 AM

25. It's inherently unsafe. No way to do it safely.

They use very high pressure and toxic chemicals to fracture the shale layer. The high pressure forces the fluid and gas up into places you don't want it. There is no way to do this without threatening the water.

There is no science study that will ever convince the supporters that fracking cannot be done safely. No matter what evidence is presented, the oil industry always presents a spin saying the study is meaningless or flawed or inconclusive. Evidence is useless.

They are making billions and pushing the costs off onto the people of this region and the people of the United States.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #25)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:29 AM

35. I don't support the practice.

 

But then I also don't support our not requiring higher taxes on fuels overall, or our low standards of efficiency, or our high levels of consumption.

But in context, given what the options are and the utter unlikelihood of making the necessary changes fast enough, his position is a difficult one but not unreasonable.

I hate fracking, but like deep ocean oil extraction, it's the next logical (if unwise) step on the fossil fuel diet/addiction.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:14 PM

7. ..........

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:15 PM

8. Gimme some

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:27 PM

12. mmmm butter...

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:31 PM

16. I know someone that frames their...

'debates' like this. They usually go like this..

Obama supporters love high unemployment. That's why they support Obama.

Obama hates African Americans, that's why he does nothing about the high unemployment rate in their community.

Obama supporters are racists they support high unemployment for African Americans.

and on and on....I could give you a thousand examples, and the longer they go on, the more ridiculous they become. Till they end with the whole "you worship Obama he is your master' pisses me off just thinking about it.

I don't understand this style of debate. I've never seen anyone else do it, till now...

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:43 PM

18. Would you shut up if someone was pumping toxic waste under the stream behind your house?

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:44 PM

19. Concern noted n/t

 

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:22 AM

20. He drinks crude oil for breakfast, too.

And he eats blood diamonds for lunch.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:32 AM

22. On March 31, 2010, the President reversed his stance and allowed offshore drilling. Less than a...

....month later, televisions were lit up with round the clock coverage of the BP oil disaster.

His reversal was part of a televised speech and I remember watching it and just having my jaw hit the floor. A few months later, he's talking about who's ass he needs to kick. Hrm.

Here's some quick links:
Barack Obama reverses campaign promise and approves offshore drilling
Remarks by the President to the Nation on the BP Oil Spill

A few months from now, is he going to be on television talking about needing to know who's ass to kick again?

I want to leave you and everyone else with a quote from Sam Seder (about President Obama's choices) from November 15, 2010:
"Is this a question of him compromising too much or at the end of the day, is this his agenda, and he actually is playing this 11, uh, 14-dimensionsional chess, it's just that we don't realize that's his agenda. I mean, who knows? And ultimately from a Progressive point of view, at the end of the day it's starting not to matter.

I mean, at one point Progressives are going to pivot from trying to convince Obama from doing what Obama feels is right, despite himself, to "Obama doesn't, isn't necessarily on our side, regardless of what we may have thought and we've got to actually start to make a design, a plan, to force him to do what we want with the presumption that it's not what he wants to do."


Right now the President's playing his own game, House & Senate leadership on the Democratic side are playing their own games, I don't think anyone's on the same page, especially because politically he has to run against Congress in order to get re-elected. I would like to ask how all these 14-dimensional chess moves...and what I'm really talking about is his supposed "triangulation" against the Right by adopting many of their positions...are going to miraculously pay off for the promotion of Democratic Party platform planks.

I'll be filling in the little arrow with my ink pen next to Obama's name in November but I'll be shaking my head at the direction he's taken this party. I'll be filling in the little arrow next to DeFazio's name in November but I'll be shaking my head at the lack of support he's gotten with that fucking loon Art Robinson and his wads of corporate cash.

I guess some years all you can do is fill in the little arrow with your ink pen and just shake your head at the fucked up mess of a situation.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:38 AM

32. Obama reversed his position on offshore drilling before he was even elected.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:46 AM

34. yeah that sums it up

I want to focus more on grass roots organizing around issues and focus more on the Democratic primaries. Starting to think the primaries are almost more important than the general election. But that won't help when candidates reverse positions after getting elected.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:40 AM

26. Yes, of course

President Obama "loves' fracking.

He also loves torturing puppies, kicking the crutches out from under old ladies, AND he refuses to hold his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.

I understand he was once videotaped eating a live kitten on the White House lawn - but thanks the librul media, the footage has never been shown.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:54 AM

28. Would you believe a lot worse could have been said but instead but I held back?

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:06 AM

29. Oh, please go ahead

Your mom won't be home for hours - and no one here will ever tell her you were using her computer while she was out.

Just remember to wipe the Cheetos stains off the keyboard when you log off.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:19 AM

30. President Obama Lies About Risks of Fracking

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:27 AM

31. I knew I shouldn't have encouraged you

Now I'm caught in one of those endless loops where, no matter how many times you 'press pound now', you wind up back at the beginning of the tape recorded message.



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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:50 AM

27. "If we dig precious things from the ground, we will invite disaster." -Hopi prophecy

 

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:39 AM

33. All new natural gas in the United States is unconventional / fracking.

Of course he loves it, as do many capitalists. Hell, it's been responsible for most of our coal consumption reduction, and is tied deeply into renewable energy.

Just as the status quo wants.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:46 AM

38. Shhh...Not supposed to talk about his actual corporate/Republican policies.

That's Republican propaganda!

The denial needs to stop.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=146626

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:50 AM

39. Obama has been known to repeat oil industry lies

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:56 AM

40. Loves deep water drilling too - even though we still don't have...

...the technology to protect the Gulf from accidents.

And this, in spite of what's already happened.

Chess playing politician, sure. Wise man, not so much.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:22 AM

41. Kick

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