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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:03 PM Oct 2017

Bernie speaking on 1st day at Women's conference is a horrible idea & it's easy to show why...

- A non hearing impaired person who hasn't been a particular advocate for the hearing impaired signed to speak on the first day of a conference for the deaf when it is the first conference for the deaf have had in 40 years.

- A non Latino/Hispanic person who hasn't been a particular advocate for the Latino/Hispanic community signed to speak on the first day of a conference for Latinos/Hispanic people when it is the first conference for Latinos in 40 years.

- A white man who hasn't done much for African American rights signed to speak on the the first day of a conference for African Americans when it is the first conference for African Americans in 40 years.

We can keep going. All of the above would be shockingly bad choices. It's all pretty obvious. Women's rights has not been one of Bernie's signature issues. He's probably on the right side of those rights, but that's not his bailiwick.

The decision to have Bernie speak was not about women. That's the problem. This conference is about women.

282 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie speaking on 1st day at Women's conference is a horrible idea & it's easy to show why... (Original Post) stevenleser Oct 2017 OP
umm the conference WANTED him to speak and its their conference after all nt msongs Oct 2017 #1
That's your answer? It's a conference about women. The organizers don't own that. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #2
Who has the right... tonedevil Oct 2017 #5
When it is about a diversity group? The members of that diversity group. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #16
Did the organizers... tonedevil Oct 2017 #21
This isn't that complicated. It's all in the OP. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #23
Not really. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #251
No they didn't have to ask permission radical noodle Oct 2017 #105
The organizers of the Women's March weren't mostly WOC. Why do you say "apparently" this group is? pnwmom Oct 2017 #136
The tweet... tonedevil Oct 2017 #236
There were 4 organizers, including two white women, one Latina, and an African American. n/t pnwmom Oct 2017 #239
Thank you... tonedevil Oct 2017 #243
I haven't seen anything that explains who issued the invite or how. n/t pnwmom Oct 2017 #246
Have to agree with you there... they must've had good reasons for inviting Bernie to speak. InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2017 #33
They really didn't. Everything you see that they have come out with on this says the opposite. stevenleser Oct 2017 #37
I can understand there being some people who were not in favor of hearing from Bernie... InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2017 #42
Meanwhile, this decision has brought a lot more attention to their event. thesquanderer Oct 2017 #108
Or not. A lot of women seem to be asking for their $300 back. Seems they think their issues stevenleser Oct 2017 #109
Could you have lived with them inviting Nina Turner? Ken Burch Oct 2017 #242
Sure. Those would have been reasonable choices. stevenleser Oct 2017 #268
Post removed Post removed Oct 2017 #244
There's nothing in that photo that "says the opposite". Ken Burch Oct 2017 #252
Well the people they charged $300 per ticket that they defrauded by Ninsianna Oct 2017 #91
does the 300 dollars include a Hotel , travel and whatever costs of getting there ? JI7 Oct 2017 #116
No, I was going for the day...you can buy day tickets. But I won't go now. To have Sen. Sanders Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #159
You might want to check out the comments of some of those other "honored" speakers Ninsianna Oct 2017 #273
Wow..not going. I am incensed at how this was done...they deliberately waited until you couldn't get Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #275
Nasty right? Ninsianna Oct 2017 #280
Since I was going anyway...I will keep my eyes peeled. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #281
Nope. Ninsianna Oct 2017 #272
It's NOT a conference about women, that would be simplistic and limited Not Ruth Oct 2017 #6
u ruined his mansplainin questionseverything Oct 2017 #11
Nope, Bernie will be the one mansplaining, and the conference organizers enabled it. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #17
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #149
It actually is that simple. stevenleser Oct 2017 #18
That is a fine example... tonedevil Oct 2017 #25
They actually do share my opinion and knew the choice was a controversial one stevenleser Oct 2017 #35
I don't think you understand... tonedevil Oct 2017 #38
No, I don't think YOU understand. They knew these opinions existed among women when they made the stevenleser Oct 2017 #40
Apparently... tonedevil Oct 2017 #55
It was a very bad decision. And I have to wonder if it is about selling tickets...at $300.00 a pop Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #163
You say this as if there is a group that would get collective 100% support mythology Oct 2017 #177
This flailing really does not become any of you trying to support this decision. stevenleser Oct 2017 #226
I did it intentionally and no it wasn't "flailing" as you inaccurately put it. mythology Oct 2017 #270
Thank you, Not Ruth True Dough Oct 2017 #56
I had intended to go up for the day...but I let my hotel go because I want nothing to do with this. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #161
"that the rise of the woman IS the rise of the nation." How do you get that it "Is NOT a conference emulatorloo Oct 2017 #213
Yes it is. The percentage of female speakers addressing the conference highlights female leadership Tom Rinaldo Oct 2017 #238
Listen to the actual organizers Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2017 #7
truly embarrassing to see them try to insulate themselves from criticism that way. bettyellen Oct 2017 #96
And embarrassing to see some DUers who have never been interested in any diversity issues stevenleser Oct 2017 #224
There are people who twist things for political "gain" and I think they lose in the end.... bettyellen Oct 2017 #267
Thanks elleng Oct 2017 #128
That's my answer, too. nt babylonsister Oct 2017 #19
And it is still a bad answer. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #20
When does this happen? I am now curious to babylonsister Oct 2017 #28
It's a good opportunity for him to lay out how women's' issues fit into his worldview emulatorloo Oct 2017 #209
Well you certainly don't own it either, stevenleser. appal_jack Oct 2017 #122
And I am sure you are going to tell us all how reciting that obvious factoid stevenleser Oct 2017 #125
And you do? Ken Burch Oct 2017 #241
Not "the conference." The majority of the handful of organizers of the conference. n/t pnwmom Oct 2017 #53
And the women who made the conference possible resoundingly shouted their disagreement Ninsianna Oct 2017 #89
No. Sorry. sheshe2 Oct 2017 #102
Thank you. Paka Oct 2017 #111
Sheshe2 wrote pretty much the same thing. It is under Latest Threads BigmanPigman Oct 2017 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author GaryCnf Oct 2017 #9
Is he the headline speaker? If so, IMO, he probably needs to bow out. He's too much... brush Oct 2017 #84
What? KPN Oct 2017 #4
You mean people who actually get off their ass and organize a convention should have some say? Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2017 #10
I need a link to share, but yes! And babylonsister Oct 2017 #24
Here SixString Oct 2017 #26
They got to decide who they wanted delisen Oct 2017 #135
They can organize it but I don't have to go...and no more donations from me either. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #164
+1! KPN Oct 2017 #192
Yea, in between the GaryCnf Oct 2017 #12
Calling for silencing? Rather hyperbolic. KPN Oct 2017 #15
I assume by "over-reaction" GaryCnf Oct 2017 #27
Yes, your assumption is correct ... KPN Oct 2017 #183
NP GaryCnf Oct 2017 #184
Why those hysterical females...they overreacted...I am sure some manspainin Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #259
You need to go back GaryCnf Oct 2017 #261
I attack no one...but I feel they absolutely blew it. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #276
And here is Tamika Mallory in her own words acknowledging her choice was controversial stevenleser Oct 2017 #36
Changing the goalposts? GaryCnf Oct 2017 #46
No changing, exactly in line with my OP. Not even a good try. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #48
You have not... tonedevil Oct 2017 #57
My OP makes clear why its a horrible idea. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #60
I just don't agree. /nt tonedevil Oct 2017 #61
Are you a member of a diversity group? nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #64
As a 61 year old White Man... tonedevil Oct 2017 #74
That's why you don't understand. Ask a member of a diversity group about the situations stevenleser Oct 2017 #78
I understand... tonedevil Oct 2017 #90
Too bad this confernece was organized by straight white men Tom Rinaldo Oct 2017 #176
I'm AA and definitely not a Bernie fan. But I understand why Tamika chose Bernie as one of the underthematrix Oct 2017 #262
No it doesn't. It states a bunch of ridiculous KPN Oct 2017 #188
Its a straightforward and obvious set of facts that you can't refute. stevenleser Oct 2017 #225
Say what you will. KPN Oct 2017 #229
It was an idiot idea and there are many reasons why. leftofcool Oct 2017 #65
And she supported it regardless because she thought it was a good thing to do. KPN Oct 2017 #185
Wait, wait , wait. sheshe2 Oct 2017 #112
that's crazy talk Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #180
If the conference organizers invited him, and if the conference organizers are women, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #8
Seems pretty obvious... Bernie may not have been my first choice InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2017 #34
Agreed. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #198
Yes, thanks, elleng Oct 2017 #130
Purity at all costs? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #199
A 'big' reason, imo. elleng Oct 2017 #204
He/she who thinks the Democratic party treestar Oct 2017 #190
Organizers are POC who admire him. Is their perspective shit? Arazi Oct 2017 #13
Not even a nice try. Laughable actually. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #14
Still no good responses, because there aren't any. He's not a women's advocate at all. stevenleser Oct 2017 #22
I was hoping for an "I don't see gender" one. betsuni Oct 2017 #29
I was just going to say, the night is young. stevenleser Oct 2017 #86
Post removed Post removed Oct 2017 #30
Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #31
K&R stonecutter357 Oct 2017 #32
Actually the women who selected him GaryCnf Oct 2017 #39
Oh I listened. Here they are stevenleser Oct 2017 #49
And it's wide right GaryCnf Oct 2017 #51
In other words, you really don't care what the thoughts are of the women who organized the stevenleser Oct 2017 #52
Have some dignity sir GaryCnf Oct 2017 #71
Read your response out loud in front of a mirror. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #83
Exactly, right again. This is just a dishonest attempt to R B Garr Oct 2017 #195
Which is disingenuous treestar Oct 2017 #194
Bernie has disparaged people he claims practice identity politics, pnwmom Oct 2017 #62
Well at least you're honest. GaryCnf Oct 2017 #76
Bernie has a one-size-fits-all-99% solution for political equality, pnwmom Oct 2017 #77
Again, my compliments GaryCnf Oct 2017 #82
Dunno where you get "hatred" from a recitation of facts and direct quotes emulatorloo Oct 2017 #216
I agree that having a man open the conference was a clunky decision. Demit Oct 2017 #41
Thank you Steven mcar Oct 2017 #43
You're just pissed because it's Bernie phleshdef Oct 2017 #44
As usual. elleng Oct 2017 #129
Yes, I am pisssed that Sen. Sanders was chosen given his comments on identity politics and Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #167
so you are basically saying Bernie has not done much on issues important to women Takket Oct 2017 #45
It's exactly as I said in the OP and I will elaborate stevenleser Oct 2017 #47
Just because it's controversial... tonedevil Oct 2017 #59
Question GaryCnf Oct 2017 #66
I'll answer, if... stevenleser Oct 2017 #75
a well thought out reply......... Takket Oct 2017 #68
Thanks For Fighting A Good Fight Me. Oct 2017 #69
Likely there are men who have done more treestar Oct 2017 #191
k&r Starry Messenger Oct 2017 #50
So far he's the only man to be invited who has accepted. That is odd. George II Oct 2017 #54
Not true oberliner Oct 2017 #58
From their own website, here are the 44 confirmed speakers: George II Oct 2017 #70
There is one other male speaker and he is not speaking on day 1. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #63
I stand corrected, there are 44 confirmed speakers on their website, 42 are women. George II Oct 2017 #72
This was absolutely a tone-deaf decision NastyRiffraff Oct 2017 #67
I Would Rather Hear Bernie Speak At ANY EVENT SeattlePop Oct 2017 #73
I just drop this here. Carry on... Purveyor Oct 2017 #79
That argument is beyond stale at this point. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #80
As I said carry on. 2018 is going to be a challenge at this rate, indeed... nt Purveyor Oct 2017 #88
Do you believe a difference of opinion on an obscure website like DU will affect the 2018 election? emulatorloo Oct 2017 #201
That is correct and many, including myself sometimes think a forum such as this matters Purveyor Oct 2017 #230
It's pretty simple. Smitty63nnn Oct 2017 #81
Point 1 is Irrelevant and Point 2 has been previously debunked. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #85
No, it was about time for someone to bring up that tired old argument. pnwmom Oct 2017 #87
He is not hosting the event. sheshe2 Oct 2017 #119
"Doing it for nothing". It is illegal for a sitting congressperson to be paid to speak. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #215
I guess you told us! Philistein Oct 2017 #92
Put down your violin. The women organizing the conference knew their choice was controversial stevenleser Oct 2017 #93
So what... tonedevil Oct 2017 #95
That has nothing to do with what that person said to me. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #98
You keep saying that... tonedevil Oct 2017 #100
Nope, that was the first time I said that in this subthread. stevenleser Oct 2017 #103
I'm not sure how you... tonedevil Oct 2017 #113
I'm giving up on this guy. Philistein Oct 2017 #106
My violin? MY violin? Philistein Oct 2017 #99
Sure you did, the first sad tune you reached for was stevenleser Oct 2017 #101
Sigh. We have a buffoon in the White House who got there through treason. PatrickforO Oct 2017 #94
I can fight Trump and advocate for diversity issues at the same time. stevenleser Oct 2017 #97
It's late. Get some sleep. Pick up bashing again tomorrow with a fresh start. FailureToCommunicate Oct 2017 #104
I'm so pleased with your concern for my sleeping schedule but no and no. stevenleser Oct 2017 #107
I think Trump will win in 2020 Tavarious Jackson Oct 2017 #110
Never pass up a chance to bash Bernie hueymahl Oct 2017 #114
There is zero Bernie bashing in the OP but thanks for playing. stevenleser Oct 2017 #115
mmm hmmm Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2017 #203
Lol, you have no idea what a joke that is. Sorry, no sale. stevenleser Oct 2017 #206
+1000, notice that there is zero concern about the R B Garr Oct 2017 #218
K&R betsuni Oct 2017 #117
Op is either Bernie Bashing or an expression that conference organizers need supervision. /nt philly_bob Oct 2017 #118
Don't worry about Bernie, he's an experienced establishment politician, he can take criticism. betsuni Oct 2017 #120
Right, Betsuni, I'm not at all worried about Bernie, philly_bob Oct 2017 #222
How disingenuous. You do sound mostly worried about Bernie. R B Garr Oct 2017 #279
IMHO - It is just more noise taking away from the disaster that is the Trump administration OhioBlue Oct 2017 #121
K&R! Thanks for making this a separate thread. R B Garr Oct 2017 #123
The Mansplaining Keynote TeamPooka Oct 2017 #124
Maxine Waters is the keynote. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2017 #175
This seems to be part of the continued rationalization (or a sadistic doubling down) coolsandy Oct 2017 #126
Maxine Waters is the headlining speaker. elleng Oct 2017 #127
After what happened to Barbara Boxer, DWS and a certain prominent Democrat ucrdem Oct 2017 #131
Jesus man! Glamrock Oct 2017 #132
Ny name isnt Jesus, and this is a political discussion forum stevenleser Oct 2017 #208
Okay Glamrock Oct 2017 #220
Long past time to stop bashing Bernie left-of-center2012 Oct 2017 #133
There is no Bernie bashing in the OP. Not even a nice try. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #207
Seriously...the endless repetition of the phrase "hasn't been a particular backer" Ken Burch Oct 2017 #247
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #134
He has a history of disparaging pnwmom Oct 2017 #137
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #138
Many women were offended by this statement of Bernie's, and others like it. pnwmom Oct 2017 #139
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #140
When did she ever play the damsel in distress? pnwmom Oct 2017 #141
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #142
Trump WAS deliberately hovering over her and invading her personal space. That was a form pnwmom Oct 2017 #143
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #144
First you insulted Hillary and now it's Gore. I get the idea. nt pnwmom Oct 2017 #145
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #146
Yup. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2017 #160
Im almost sorry I missed the action stevenleser Oct 2017 #212
Tea Roll JI7 Oct 2017 #147
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #148
trump supporters are shitbags JI7 Oct 2017 #150
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #151
no, i don't have any shitbags in my family JI7 Oct 2017 #153
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #154
shitbag trump supporters don't deserve respect JI7 Oct 2017 #155
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #156
yeah, trump supporters are also fuckwads JI7 Oct 2017 #157
Played the vagina card? MyNameGoesHere Oct 2017 #173
I don't. I am a woman. And while I respect all opinions. I won't go see a guy open a woman's Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #165
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #169
And yes some women and people of color had a problem with that. Not all by a long-shot, and I doubt JCanete Oct 2017 #171
This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Oct 2017 #223
He ticks me off treestar Oct 2017 #193
That was almost 60 years ago...and his comments of late have been about emphasizing economic Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #168
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #170
Post removed Post removed Oct 2017 #152
We are sooooo fucked! SMDH. n/t Whiskeytide Oct 2017 #158
Oh come on, among numerous speakers allies to these groups have no business speaking? They JCanete Oct 2017 #162
We don't need this sort of attention. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #166
that is depressingly vague. Who doesn't. What's the attention you are getting that you object to? JCanete Oct 2017 #172
I don't care for Sen. Sanders. I am a Democrat, and he has said some things I wish he hadn't about Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #179
So you are going to miss the conference... Whiskeytide Oct 2017 #181
I wanted to go to a Woman's conference...not a political rally and it seems to me that this is what Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #260
I refuse to attend this conference because it is not a woman's conference which I signed up for... Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #277
Using your logic it is not your place to complain. Dustlawyer Oct 2017 #174
+1111111111! KPN Oct 2017 #187
Nope, everyone can complain. Just not everyone should be a conference speaker. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #210
As a man you know more than the organizers of the event? Dustlawyer Oct 2017 #245
Your response is a perfect example. See my #253 below nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #254
Has this group reserved speaking slots exclusively for women in the past? Ken Burch Oct 2017 #249
First conference in 40 years. But there is precedent for inviting men stevenleser Oct 2017 #257
I hadn't realized this was a fortieth anniversary event. That conference was heroic. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #265
Nope, I voiced my specific objections in two OPs. stevenleser Oct 2017 #266
Your specific objections can be summarized thusly: Ken Burch Oct 2017 #269
I lulz'd KG Oct 2017 #178
yep... samnsara Oct 2017 #182
Says a male. KPN Oct 2017 #186
Nope, the conference organizers, who are women, all acknowledged the choice was controversial stevenleser Oct 2017 #211
Okay I can play that game. KPN Oct 2017 #214
No game, your argument fails. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #219
Nope KPN Oct 2017 #228
Bingo! Your answer pretty much decimated this entire reason for this thread. nt Quixote1818 Oct 2017 #278
It's not your place to lecture a women's group as to who they should invite to speak. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #248
Again, see #253 below. nt stevenleser Oct 2017 #255
They have the word Women in their title treestar Oct 2017 #189
Maxine Waters is the keynote speaker. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2017 #196
I was under the impression that treestar Oct 2017 #197
Bernie's still opening it. But after the backlash, they announced Maxine pnwmom Oct 2017 #200
So basically they had a PR disaster on their hands after all the pushback they received emulatorloo Oct 2017 #202
they said they announced the keynote as Waters weeks ago. Do you have an article or evidence you've JCanete Oct 2017 #231
Yeah, that's what they're saying now. But as of Sept 19th they still weren't confirming Maxine pnwmom Oct 2017 #232
but it's October 14th now, and the backlash started a couple days ago. when was she confirmed JCanete Oct 2017 #233
The backlash came when they announced Bernie, and Tamika appeared to confirm pnwmom Oct 2017 #234
appeared to confirm? JCanete Oct 2017 #235
Yes. She didn't correct the reporter who used the word "headliner" to refer to Bernie, pnwmom Oct 2017 #240
Bernie is the first speaker; Maxine is the keynote Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2017 #205
I need to find out who is the keynote as treestar Oct 2017 #217
In other news: man lectures women about stuff. Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #221
Nope, the conference organizers, who are women, all acknowledged they knew the choice would be stevenleser Oct 2017 #227
No, they didn't validate your opionion. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #250
That is validating my opinion stevenleser Oct 2017 #253
They are simply validating the idea that not everyone would agree about their decision. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #256
And in doing so, validated the opinion and also took it out of the realm stevenleser Oct 2017 #258
He shouldn't speak at the conference. But this shouldn't be another excuse to go after him. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #237
Bill Clinton headlined their gala. Sienna86 Oct 2017 #263
Looks like he headlined the Emily's List Award Gala ucrdem Oct 2017 #264
LOL shanny Oct 2017 #271
Also they waited to tell them about this decision so many felt that was wrong too. Madam45for2923 Oct 2017 #274
I'm happy that the organizers made the right decision and moved Bernie to a break out session stevenleser Oct 2017 #282
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
21. Did the organizers...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:36 PM
Oct 2017

have to ask the members of the diversity group permission to have the event? I'm pretty sure if a group of people, in this case apparently mostly WOC, organize an event they can choose the speakers. If they are not able to get enough people to come maybe they need to reflect, but it is still there event not yours or even women's in general.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
251. Not really.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 06:02 PM
Oct 2017

The statement that Bernie wasn't a particular ally of feminism is not an unassailable truth.

It's simply an assertion.

And frankly it sounds as though you feel they were obligated to invite Hillary or a Hillary supporter, because you, and you alone, know what is best for feminism.

radical noodle

(7,990 posts)
105. No they didn't have to ask permission
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:33 PM
Oct 2017

but I believe they did ask attendees to pay $300 to attend BEFORE they announced Sanders as the speaker. Some people are asking for their money back.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
136. The organizers of the Women's March weren't mostly WOC. Why do you say "apparently" this group is?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:35 AM
Oct 2017
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
236. The tweet...
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:09 PM
Oct 2017

refrenced in #7 of this thread mentions that and I followed the hashtag #womensmarch and that is the idea I get. If you have information that the women behind #womensmarch aren't organizing this event or aren't mainly WOC I would like to be more rather than less educated about this.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
243. Thank you...
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:35 PM
Oct 2017

I've not been able to find an official roster the only name I've seen in connection is Tamika Mallory. From what you say it seems four women are involved did they not all sign on to the invitation of Senator Sanders?

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
33. Have to agree with you there... they must've had good reasons for inviting Bernie to speak.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:53 PM
Oct 2017

I would've loved if they had invited BOTH Bernie AND Hillary as co-speakers to open the conference, which would've gone a long way to uniting the party.

I'm guessing that maybe, with Hillary's book, ripping on Bernie for her loss, so fresh in people's minds, that has opened old wounds, which made that impossible.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
37. They really didn't. Everything you see that they have come out with on this says the opposite.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:00 PM
Oct 2017

For instance:

http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

Mallory acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice. "Some people just don't want to hear from Bernie Sanders," says Mallory. "There are some people who don’t believe that a man has a place at a women’s convention."

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
42. I can understand there being some people who were not in favor of hearing from Bernie...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:06 PM
Oct 2017

that's to be expected. Doesn't necessarily make it a BAD decision. Could they have made a less controversial choice? Of course.

thesquanderer

(11,955 posts)
108. Meanwhile, this decision has brought a lot more attention to their event.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:52 PM
Oct 2017

Maybe that was part of the purpose of the choice as well, it raised more awareness of the event, for free. That's what controversy tends to do, and so it can be a smart strategy, depending on the goal. So whether the choice is "horrible" as you say, or merely "controversial" as they admit, on balance, the decision may well have served them well.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
109. Or not. A lot of women seem to be asking for their $300 back. Seems they think their issues
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:53 PM
Oct 2017

are being sold out.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
242. Could you have lived with them inviting Nina Turner?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:35 PM
Oct 2017

Or Sarah Silverman(who campaigned for Bernie), or a woman not associated with either campaign?

Were you going to insist that it not only be a woman, but a woman allied with HRC?

Response to stevenleser (Reply #37)

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
252. There's nothing in that photo that "says the opposite".
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 06:06 PM
Oct 2017

Bernie supports all of the causes people were marching for in that photo and has an essentially 100% voting record in support of anti-oppression politics during his Congressional career.

Acknowledging that the choice is controversial is not the same thing as admitting the choice was wrong.


Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
91. Well the people they charged $300 per ticket that they defrauded by
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:04 PM
Oct 2017

announcing this AFTER the refund deadline had passed might wish to have a say. They're being smacked hard by the displeasure of the women they were supposedly organizing for, and the attendees are the people who they should be listening to, but apparently that wasn't the goal for these people are busy behaving stupidly after once again doing dumb things deliberately calculated to irritate people.

They went through this in January and learned nothing. They're being called out for the fraud they attempted, and people are upset that they had to be forced to include actual women running for office in the state they decided to set their conference.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
159. No, I was going for the day...you can buy day tickets. But I won't go now. To have Sen. Sanders
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 06:50 AM
Oct 2017

speak on social justice issues when he called planned parenthood establishment and said we needed to abandon identity issues is just plain wrong...and a woman should open this convention. I don't know who decided this...I would be interested to know, bu it was a bad decision.

"How much does it cost?
General admission is $295 per person—an amount necessary to help us cover the expense of holding a conference. Youth and student registration is $125 per person. If your employer is paying your registration, please register at the institutional level, $365 per person. Single day tickets are available for Friday and Saturday at $125, and Sunday at $75."

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/womens-march-presents-the-inaugural-womens-convention-2017-tickets-36830022589

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
273. You might want to check out the comments of some of those other "honored" speakers
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 01:19 AM
Oct 2017

attacking Democrats, WoC (supposedly on behalf of WoC), Hillary, her supporters, Emily's List etc. Winnie Wong was "ready for a fight", so unifying these folks.

From what I'm hearing and seeing, this was a top down F*up. I feel bad for the local women who will be spending their time working their rears off, while people who didn't do much once again hog all the credit and prove just how badly they fail at organizing, unifying or speaking without being insulting, divisive and just plain awful.

Take a look at those comments on the page as well, in response to that "apology".

Please be careful if you're heading down there, and charge your phone. Drama queens about and they're apparently all ready to fight, whatever that means coming from people who happily took selfies with actual Nazis.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
275. Wow..not going. I am incensed at how this was done...they deliberately waited until you couldn't get
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:18 AM
Oct 2017

your money back before announcing the opening speaker. Thanks for the update.

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
280. Nasty right?
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 01:22 PM
Oct 2017

Keep the weekend free if you can, there might be things that local groups are doing in the area. I'm hearing some rumblings.

I'm frankly curious to see how these bombastic personalities comport themselves in person.

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
272. Nope.
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 01:13 AM
Oct 2017

If you only want to go Friday, for the headliner who is or not the headliner, depending on the mood of the organizer at the moment they're asked, it's $125.

I wonder where this money is going and how much Emily's List kicked in, and if they get a refund considering how those Fox stalwarts and GOP backed speakers to this event have been attacking that organization. You know the one that supported Nina and many other women, this is how the "invited guests" of the Women's Convention speak of an organization that support women and sponsored their event.

I feel bad for the local organizers who spent lots of time and effort here just to watch as the national ones basically make a giant mess of everything to cater to their personal biases. I'm thinking they weren't consulted though they're the ones doing all the work.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
6. It's NOT a conference about women, that would be simplistic and limited
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:20 PM
Oct 2017

The Women’s Convention will bring thousands of women, femmes and our allies of all backgrounds to Detroit from October 27-29th, 2017, for a weekend of workshops, strategy sessions, inspiring forums and intersectional movement building to continue the preparation going into the 2018 midterm elections.

Tapping into the power of women in leadership as the fundamental, grassroots force for change, the Women’s Convention will bring together first time activists and movement leaders, rising political stars that reflect our nation’s changing demographics, and thousands of women who’ve organized sister marches, huddles, rallies and resistance actions, large and small, since January 2017.

Participants will leave inspired and motivated, with new connections, skills and strategies for working towards collective liberation for women of all races, ethnicities, ages, abilities, sexual identities, gender expressions, immigration statuses, religious faiths, and economic statuses.

The Women’s Convention is the beginning of a political groundswell, showing that the rise of the woman IS the rise of the nation.

Response to questionseverything (Reply #11)

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
25. That is a fine example...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:44 PM
Oct 2017

of an opinion. The organizers of this event do not share your opinion and are not obligated to. I do find it interesting that this seems to be something organized by Women most of whom are Black and you a typical white guy feels comfortable explaining why they got it all wrong.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
35. They actually do share my opinion and knew the choice was a controversial one
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:57 PM
Oct 2017
http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

Mallory acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice. "Some people just don't want to hear from Bernie Sanders," says Mallory. "There are some people who don’t believe that a man has a place at a women’s convention."
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
38. I don't think you understand...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:01 PM
Oct 2017

the word sharing in this instance. They may agree that he is a controversial choice, but it does not seem that Ms. Mallory feels that a man, Senator Sanders in particular, does not have a place at a women's convention. Unless I have misread what you are saying I believe your opinion is that a man does not have a place at a women’s convention. Their convention their invites you can grouse as you see fit.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
40. No, I don't think YOU understand. They knew these opinions existed among women when they made the
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:04 PM
Oct 2017

choice.

They also knew Sanders was not known for being an advocate for women, yet they made the choice anyway.

So they acknowledge that these opinions were out there among women and they ignored them. They knew they were having someone speak who wasnt an advocate for women.

So they have acknowledged and legitimized everything I have written on this subject.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
55. Apparently...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:22 PM
Oct 2017

even knowing some would object these women decided that Senator Sanders was someone who they wanted to speak. That does not square with you saying it is a demonstrably horrible decision. It may well be if you start from disliking Senator Sanders, but that is not everybody. What you have written is a legitimate opinion nothing more. In no way are the organizers agreeing with you that this is a horrible idea.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
163. It was a very bad decision. And I have to wonder if it is about selling tickets...at $300.00 a pop
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:06 AM
Oct 2017

having Bernie will definitely sell tickets. I hate to sound cynical. It is $300 for the conference and over 100.00 for just a day. There are 'scholarships'. Hubs was out of work and just recently went back so my daughter and I were going up for one day only...I am not going now. I attended the woman's march which was great. But this seems really really divisive and controversial. We don't need this now. It shows an appalling lack of judgement.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
177. You say this as if there is a group that would get collective 100% support
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 08:19 AM
Oct 2017

Did they invite women from the Republican side of things?

It's not legitimizing your position because you aren't taking the position the organizers are. They are saying that some people believe as you do, which is a far cry from saying that your position is correct.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
226. This flailing really does not become any of you trying to support this decision.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:14 PM
Oct 2017

Whether or not you realize it you just compared the decision to invite Bernie to inviting Republican women.

I actually think that the outrage of inviting any man to open the conference who is not a womens rights advocate is similar to the outrage it would have caused to invite a Republican women.

The point is to invite speakers who are women who fight for women's rights. Or, a man who has been such an exceptional advocate for women's rights that his invitation speaks for himself. This really isn't that complicated.

There are historical examples of such men where an invite might be appropriate. I posted one as an OP. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029708758

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
270. I did it intentionally and no it wasn't "flailing" as you inaccurately put it.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:00 PM
Oct 2017

You just don't understand the point.

It's absolutely impossible to find 44 different speakers that literally 100% of people would agree on. You can't even get a definition of feminism that 100% of people agree with. So rather obviously some people will disagree with inviting Sanders, just as some would have disagreed with inviting Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren or Sarah Palin.

You mistake your own personal opinion for being factual and objective. Simply put it isn't. The fact that you don't realize that, well that's not my fault. This is about your dislike of Sanders in my opinion. That's fine, but it doesn't exactly make you an unbiased opinion. You have your conclusion and work backwards from there. It's shoddy logic.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
161. I had intended to go up for the day...but I let my hotel go because I want nothing to do with this.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:01 AM
Oct 2017

And let me just say in the era of Trump who is attacking even the right to birth control...a woman's conference makes sense and is in no way simplistic or limited if it about social justice...none of the other stuff matters if you don't have control over your own body. This sounds like an Our Revolution event. Glad I didn't waste my money. I thought it was pricey to begin with...$300.00 which is why I was only going for one day which costs me over $100.00. Now I will not attend. A woman should be speaking at a woman's convention...and the latest excuse that they couldn't get prominent woman is ridiculous when they have Maxine who should speak first. I went to the Woman's march and would think twice about attending anything sponsored by this group again.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
213. "that the rise of the woman IS the rise of the nation." How do you get that it "Is NOT a conference
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:34 PM
Oct 2017

about women" from that statement by the organization?

Nice that Bernie and a couple other men speaking, but organizers clear it is about women changing the world.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
238. Yes it is. The percentage of female speakers addressing the conference highlights female leadership
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:17 PM
Oct 2017

That is as it should be in my opinion. But i also remember when feminists (of both genders) were forced to take the stand that "every issue is a woman's issue", because too many men thought women could be relegated to only getting serious input into matters of health home and family.

I do not hesitate in saying that, in the broadest sense, women speak for me.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
7. Listen to the actual organizers
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:20 PM
Oct 2017



".@womensmarch is led by women, mainly WOC. We announce one man as a speaker among over 60, and y'all start saying he's our leader?!" she wrote. "When you lash out at WOC leaders, saying we have a man as our headliner/leader, you erase our work. You erase Rep Waters' work. LISTEN TO US. To the folks yelling at @womensmarch & directly at me: Why does your version of advocating for women's rights = bashing Black women leaders?"
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
96. truly embarrassing to see them try to insulate themselves from criticism that way.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:22 PM
Oct 2017

They need to grow up, and defend their choices better.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
224. And embarrassing to see some DUers who have never been interested in any diversity issues
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:03 PM
Oct 2017

trying to use them as a shield against criticism of their horrible choice.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
267. There are people who twist things for political "gain" and I think they lose in the end....
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 09:55 PM
Oct 2017

This group touted Sanders and his "Revolution" people way above other people who barely got a mention. Then they try and gaslight women who don't like it. Jeeze it's got nothing to do w anyone's race but I guess if they're trapped in a corner, shit gets vicious.

babylonsister

(170,963 posts)
28. When does this happen? I am now curious to
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:46 PM
Oct 2017

see if he's either cancelled, well-received, or whatever else might happen.

And FTR, I love Bernie, and I am not alone.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
209. It's a good opportunity for him to lay out how women's' issues fit into his worldview
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:20 PM
Oct 2017

I do believe it was a tone-deaf decision by the organizers but it is what it is.

He def votes the right way, but I don't recall him vocally getting out there to strongly assert the importance of women's equality or reproductive rights. Seems his recent focus is on Trump voters, wwc, and making contradictory statements about "identity politics" aka civil rights.

I like Bernie too! This is a good challenge for him. Looking forward to seeing how he meets it.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
125. And I am sure you are going to tell us all how reciting that obvious factoid
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:03 AM
Oct 2017

That we all already know has any bearing on this discussion at all

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
241. And you do?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:30 PM
Oct 2017

You don't see the irony in you, as a man, lecturing a women's organization as to who they should invite to spe

It's possible that they could see this as a way to move past the Clinton-Sanders divide...to move from division to dialog and cooperation.

It's possible that they want to find a way to engage and find common ground rather than to stay with your approach of simply demanding repentance and submission.

As I said, it may not have been the wisest choice to invite Bernie himself...but it was a good idea to reach out to the Sanders movement, and I hope you'd be okay with them inviting a woman associated with that to speak. But it's their call.




Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
89. And the women who made the conference possible resoundingly shouted their disagreement
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:00 PM
Oct 2017

with this decision, they DO NOT WANT HIM, and what's a conference that spits in the face of the women it's supposed to be convening for?

sheshe2

(83,348 posts)
102. No. Sorry.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:26 PM
Oct 2017

It is called a 'Women's Conference.' That means all women inclusive to ALL WOMEN and not for a select few. If they wanted it to include the few they should have just call it 'Their Conference' and others need not attend, and the others are not attending for that very reason.

BigmanPigman

(51,432 posts)
3. Sheshe2 wrote pretty much the same thing. It is under Latest Threads
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:10 PM
Oct 2017

on the DU Homepage. It seems to be a poor choice on the organizers part.

Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #3)

brush

(53,475 posts)
84. Is he the headline speaker? If so, IMO, he probably needs to bow out. He's too much...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:40 PM
Oct 2017

Last edited Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:34 AM - Edit history (1)

in the center of divisiveness as it is.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
4. What?
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:17 PM
Oct 2017

The conference organizers invited him. Maybe we should let the people who have the desire and ability to put together and organize a conference decide who should be invited to speak.

Many women admire Senator Sandersand are thrilled to have him speak at the conference. They should keep everyone else happy even though they seem to think that Bernie is relevant as a principal speaker at the event?

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
10. You mean people who actually get off their ass and organize a convention should have some say?
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:23 PM
Oct 2017

You mean they shouldn't turn it over to some angry keyboard slacktivists?

That's crazy talk!!

".@womensmarch is led by women, mainly WOC. We announce one man as a speaker among over 60, and y'all start saying he's our leader?!" she wrote. "When you lash out at WOC leaders, saying we have a man as our headliner/leader, you erase our work. You erase Rep Waters' work. LISTEN TO US. To the folks yelling at @womensmarch & directly at me: Why does your version of advocating for women's rights = bashing Black women leaders?"

delisen

(6,039 posts)
135. They got to decide who they wanted
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:27 AM
Oct 2017

Can't fathom why conference organizers want to criticize or intimidate, or silence women who disagree strongly with their choice.

















 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
12. Yea, in between the
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:26 PM
Oct 2017

linked article in that OP and this we now have two male viewpoints calling for silencing another male viewpoint (while simultaneously lecturing Tamika Mallory for disagreeing).

Irony

KPN

(15,587 posts)
15. Calling for silencing? Rather hyperbolic.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:29 PM
Oct 2017

Just like this whole over-reaction ...partly if not largely because it's Bernie. Still fighting the primary.

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
27. I assume by "over-reaction"
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:46 PM
Oct 2017

You are referring to some individuals' usurpation of the important issues women are now facing to continue their vendetta against Senator Sanders.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
183. Yes, your assumption is correct ...
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:02 AM
Oct 2017

but only coincidentally. I misread the irony as sarcasm in your post. Pardon me for misreading it initially. My bad.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
259. Why those hysterical females...they overreacted...I am sure some manspainin
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:25 PM
Oct 2017

will right this ship (sarcasm). I can't imagine how some women thought a woman's conference should be about well women.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
276. I attack no one...but I feel they absolutely blew it.
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:24 AM
Oct 2017

They caused division and ruined their convention...and they lost my trust completely.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
36. And here is Tamika Mallory in her own words acknowledging her choice was controversial
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:58 PM
Oct 2017
http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

Mallory acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice. "Some people just don't want to hear from Bernie Sanders," says Mallory. "There are some people who don’t believe that a man has a place at a women’s convention."
-----------------------------------------------------------
So no, not a male opinion, not a shocking opinion, Mallory knew what she was doing was controversial and that many women would object.
 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
46. Changing the goalposts?
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:09 PM
Oct 2017

That is a wise move, but transparent.

You did not say her choice was "controversial," you said it was:

a horrible idea & it's easy to show why
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
74. As a 61 year old White Man...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:33 PM
Oct 2017

I suspect no one would consider me a member of a diversity group. On the other hand apparently the organizers of this event are and they made the invite.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
78. That's why you don't understand. Ask a member of a diversity group about the situations
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:36 PM
Oct 2017

I outlined in the OP.

Ask an African American how they would feel about:

- A white man who hasn't done much for African American rights signed to speak on the the first day of a conference for African Americans when it is the first conference for African Americans in 40 years.

etc.

You will get 99% all feeling the same way.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
90. I understand...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:00 PM
Oct 2017

that the African American you describe may well not want the white man you describe to be speaker at the conference you describe. If African Americans were putting on the conference and decided they wanted the white man in your description to speak I would believe they understood better than I who is appropriate to speak. I give the same deference to Tamika Mallory and the other women who organized this. At the same time I don't see you having any better claim on who should speak at the Women's Conference than I.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
176. Too bad this confernece was organized by straight white men
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 08:12 AM
Oct 2017

No doubt they didn't know any African Americans they could ask

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
262. I'm AA and definitely not a Bernie fan. But I understand why Tamika chose Bernie as one of the
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:56 PM
Oct 2017

speakers.

Most AfAms are focused on the Obama Foundation Summit on Oct 31st and Nov 1st.




KPN

(15,587 posts)
188. No it doesn't. It states a bunch of ridiculous
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:13 AM
Oct 2017

analogies none of which are legitimate in themselves. In fact, your OP makes a good case against itself using your reasoning.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
225. Its a straightforward and obvious set of facts that you can't refute.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:05 PM
Oct 2017

Your flailing is evidence of that.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
65. It was an idiot idea and there are many reasons why.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:29 PM
Oct 2017

We don't elaborate on those on Bernie Underground though. Try Twitter.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
185. And she supported it regardless because she thought it was a good thing to do.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:06 AM
Oct 2017

And obviously the right thing.

Strikes me that some are making a major controversy out of differences of opinion again. Oddly, and ironically, the same quarter that consistently harangues about the other side having a "purity" test. No credibility.

sheshe2

(83,348 posts)
112. Wait, wait , wait.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 12:00 AM
Oct 2017

You say.

The conference organizers invited him. Maybe we should let the people who have the desire and ability to put together and organize a conference decide who should be invited to speak.

Many women admire Senator Sandersand are thrilled to have him speak at the conference. They should keep everyone else happy even though they seem to think that Bernie is relevant as a principal speaker at the event?


So the few, and I am told two decided that he speak first. They should speak for us all and our 10 fold voices must just be silenced when we say he should not. So all women's voices collectively do not count when we say no.?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
8. If the conference organizers invited him, and if the conference organizers are women,
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:20 PM
Oct 2017

are you criticizing their decision? It sounds as if the actual conference organizers feel that having Bernie Sanders speak does have some relevance to the issue.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
34. Seems pretty obvious... Bernie may not have been my first choice
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:56 PM
Oct 2017

for this particular conference, but, it's a perfectly reasonable one.

elleng

(130,156 posts)
130. Yes, thanks,
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:18 AM
Oct 2017

and Maxine Waters is a/the headlining speaker which many don't mention.

But oh yes let's fight among ourselves. I wonder why.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
190. He/she who thinks the Democratic party
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:15 AM
Oct 2017

should be criticized in an attempt to improve it can certainly take some themselves? It is inconsistent for any Bernie supporter to claim there should be no criticism of anyone's proceedings.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
22. Still no good responses, because there aren't any. He's not a women's advocate at all.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 09:38 PM
Oct 2017

The folks defending the choice are doing so not because he is an appropriate choice for the conference, they are defending the choice because they are political fans of Sanders.

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
39. Actually the women who selected him
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:03 PM
Oct 2017

provided the explanation and it is far from laughable.

As you stated, there is no doubt that Sanders is on the right side of women's rights, even if it is not his top issue. Given that, his equally unquestioned ability to inspire and motivate activists, particularly young activists, makes him a fine choice to get convention attendees fired up for the more substantive speakers who follow.

Of course, you would have known this already if you had LISTENED TO THE WOMEN who invited him.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
49. Oh I listened. Here they are
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:14 PM
Oct 2017

http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

Mallory acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice. "Some people just don't want to hear from Bernie Sanders," says Mallory. "There are some people who don’t believe that a man has a place at a women’s convention."
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
52. In other words, you really don't care what the thoughts are of the women who organized the
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:18 PM
Oct 2017

conference.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
195. Exactly, right again. This is just a dishonest attempt to
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 12:09 PM
Oct 2017

elevate the image of one man over the efforts of literally millions of women. It's beyond absurd, but glad to see it being exposed and called out.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
194. Which is disingenuous
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:23 AM
Oct 2017

People who don't want to hear from Bernie would be willing to hear from other men, so it doesn't follow. There are plenty of men who have done a lot more for women's issue. Bernie is one who disparages them as not as important as his issues.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
62. Bernie has disparaged people he claims practice identity politics,
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:29 PM
Oct 2017

and that phrase is divisive and anathema to many activists.

Anyone who claims that feminists or people concerned with racial justice are practicing identity politics is on the wrong side of the issue, no matter how well intentioned in his own mind.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

Bernie Sanders said Monday that the path to success for Democrats has to be through more than just identity politics, adding that it’s simply not enough for the party to base its appeals on diversity.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.

SNIP

“And one message I do have for Democrats is that a strategy that’s just micro-targeting particular, discrete groups in a Democratic coalition sometimes will win you elections, but it’s not going to win you the broad mandate that you need,” Obama told reporters during a joint news conference in Lima, Peru, on Sunday.

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
76. Well at least you're honest.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:34 PM
Oct 2017

You're wrong, but you're honest that this is,all about hatred for Bernie

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
77. Bernie has a one-size-fits-all-99% solution for political equality,
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:36 PM
Oct 2017

and that doesn't work for many of us.

And that solution doesn't fit a women's conference either.

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
82. Again, my compliments
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:40 PM
Oct 2017

I am here defending a friend. As a man i will not question any woman's position on the substance of issues uniquely affecting them. I get enough of that myself.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
216. Dunno where you get "hatred" from a recitation of facts and direct quotes
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:51 PM
Oct 2017

But cool!

Tepid criticism isn't "hatred".

One of the things I admire about Bernie is his thick skin, he can handle criticism without pretending it is "hatred". He's a tough man.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
41. I agree that having a man open the conference was a clunky decision.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:04 PM
Oct 2017

Why couldn't they have had Nina Turner, for example, be the first speaker, if they absolutely couldn't find another prominent woman? Bernie wouldn't come at all if he couldn't have top billing, maybe? It just seems so tone deaf to me.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
167. Yes, I am pisssed that Sen. Sanders was chosen given his comments on identity politics and
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:20 AM
Oct 2017

planned parenthood. It is inappropriate and reeks of opportunism...IE sell expensive tickets...bad decision. I am out some money and will not trust this group again.

Takket

(21,425 posts)
45. so you are basically saying Bernie has not done much on issues important to women
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:08 PM
Oct 2017

...and therefor has no place at a conference for issues important to women.

On what issues do you think he was lacking? Equal pay? reproductive rights? Something else?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
47. It's exactly as I said in the OP and I will elaborate
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:12 PM
Oct 2017

"Women's rights has not been one of Bernie's signature issues. He's probably on the right side of those rights, but that's not his bailiwick. "

Almost every elected Democrat is on the right side of most diversity issues. But none of them have the time to be particularly vocal advocates for ALL of them. No one has time for that. So, no, most elected Democrats would not be ideal speakers during a conference for the deaf for instance. I can see a man possibly being invited to speak at this conference if women's issues were their most important issue and they were constantly advocating for them and they had cred for being that way.

The conference organizers admitted that they knew this decision was controversial for both of the obvious reasons. They can't now say they are surprised by the controversy.

http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

Mallory acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice. "Some people just don't want to hear from Bernie Sanders," says Mallory. "There are some people who don’t believe that a man has a place at a women’s convention."

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
66. Question
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:30 PM
Oct 2017

How does "acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice" get spun into Tamika [apparrntly disrngenuosly] saying "they are surprised by the controversy," or are you just grasping at any reason you can find to attack Tamika?

As I told another poster who is more interested in attacking Bernie than the goals of the Women's March, this garbage is on the verge of cleaving off yet another core Democratic constituency.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
75. I'll answer, if...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:34 PM
Oct 2017

you can explain how the first paragraph you wrote has any real bearing on the overall issue.

Takket

(21,425 posts)
68. a well thought out reply.........
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:31 PM
Oct 2017

let me say this... what i would like to see...............

i would like to see an open invitation to ALL male politicians (and females for that matter) to a conference like this but not to give speeches, but rather to participate in roundtable sessions on how important it is to do exactly what you said.... not just support womens' rights but bring them to the forefront of their campaigns/legislation.

Equal pay is an example of something that makes a great campaign rallying cry. Gets lots of cheers, has the support of the public.... let me know when you see it before congress. :insert tumbleweed graphic here:

42% of women voted for drumpf. I can't help but feel if they saw more than lip service from Democrats that that number wouldn't be a lot smaller. In other words if you TALK about womens' issues but don't ACT on them, then women are not going to vote for you just because they think you support womens' issues. For the exact reason you said about Bernie........ "He's probably on the right side of those rights, but that's not his bailiwick."

Of course the obvious answer is we need to elect more women, but the wall of misogyny is this country is something I don't know how to scale.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
69. Thanks For Fighting A Good Fight
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:31 PM
Oct 2017

At this point it will be wait and see. They could've put together a righteous gathering and that doesn't seem likely. The backlash has been tremendous. Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding. If it is an event aimed at empowering women or an effort to support a 2020 presidential run, it will be evident pdq and if it's the latter they will have betrayed women beyond measure and won't get another bite of the apple.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
191. Likely there are men who have done more
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:19 AM
Oct 2017

Men can certainly support women's rights and have. There are surely some who are more involved than Bernie.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
67. This was absolutely a tone-deaf decision
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:30 PM
Oct 2017

No matter how people try to spin it, it's still a WOMEN's conference. True, the organizers have the POWER to invite anyone they want, but they also have the OBLIGATION to keep the focus of the conference on women. The issue is not whether or not Bernie (or any man) can speak at the conference; clearly they can. But the KEYNOTE SPEAKER? No, no, no.

It's not like there aren't many strong, articulate women who have a real interest in women's issues. There are plenty of Democratic women who have worked long and hard on them.

 

SeattlePop

(256 posts)
73. I Would Rather Hear Bernie Speak At ANY EVENT
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:33 PM
Oct 2017

Than anyone else.

He has been fighting for us non rich people his whole life.

Boys and girls.

He always tells the truth, and that my folks is worth an invite every day.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
201. Do you believe a difference of opinion on an obscure website like DU will affect the 2018 election?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:59 PM
Oct 2017

I don't. Besides no DU'ers are gonna sit home or vote for a Republican over this.

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
230. That is correct and many, including myself sometimes think a forum such as this matters
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:32 PM
Oct 2017

in the slightest.

It doesn't and that the Lords for this as otherwise we would be on a world of shit...

 

Smitty63nnn

(59 posts)
81. It's pretty simple.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:40 PM
Oct 2017

Bernie was asked to host the event. He accepted. End of story.
Note: I can almost bet you money he's doing this for nothing.

Oh, did anyone say anything about Bernie being the most popular politician for the past several months.
Not that it matters, but do ya think that might have had something to do regarding the invite?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
87. No, it was about time for someone to bring up that tired old argument.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:45 PM
Oct 2017

He wasn't and he isn't -- at least, according to any known poll. The headlines were misleading, once you read the particulars of the polls.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
215. "Doing it for nothing". It is illegal for a sitting congressperson to be paid to speak.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:48 PM
Oct 2017

Senator Sanders does not violate the law.

 

Philistein

(25 posts)
92. I guess you told us!
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:13 PM
Oct 2017

Several men seem eager to tell women why they should not have Sanders at their conference. Thanks, guys. We won't let it happen again.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
93. Put down your violin. The women organizing the conference knew their choice was controversial
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:15 PM
Oct 2017
http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

Mallory acknowledged that inviting Sanders was a controversial choice. "Some people just don't want to hear from Bernie Sanders," says Mallory. "There are some people who don’t believe that a man has a place at a women’s convention."
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
100. You keep saying that...
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:25 PM
Oct 2017

Tamika Mallory knew this would be controversial like you have a smoking gun. I'm just pointing out that controversial doesn't mean bad.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
103. Nope, that was the first time I said that in this subthread.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:27 PM
Oct 2017

You jumped at a comment of mine that was specifically geared toward that other persons comment and had nothing to do with your response.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
113. I'm not sure how you...
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 12:04 AM
Oct 2017

are counting I think your responses 35, 36, 37, 47, and 49 are all examples of you saying the organizers knew they were making a controversial choice and the way I read it you are using controversial as a synonym for bad.

 

Philistein

(25 posts)
106. I'm giving up on this guy.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:35 PM
Oct 2017

His initial premise was shaky, and then he said I was mansplaining. His responses seem defensive at best.

 

Philistein

(25 posts)
99. My violin? MY violin?
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:24 PM
Oct 2017

I'm not playing any sad songs here. I didn't organize the conference. I'm perfectly satisfied with anybody they want. I'm sorry Hillary can't attend, but maybe she thought Sanders being there made it inauthentic in some way. Maybe it does, judging by the reactions of many people here.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
101. Sure you did, the first sad tune you reached for was
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:26 PM
Oct 2017

the mansplaining one. Which is pretty invalidated by the fact that the organizers knew full well that they would receive criticism for this choice for a couple of reasons.

PatrickforO

(14,516 posts)
94. Sigh. We have a buffoon in the White House who got there through treason.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:20 PM
Oct 2017

He just signed an executive order that will cause people's health insurance premiums to go up double digits. People are gonna die in misery because of this.

He is talking about pulling FEMA out of PR because they are costing too much, and people are dying there.

He is threatening nuclear war with North Korea.

Due to gerrymandering, voter suppression, and treason, the GOP now control 33 state legislatures, 32 governorships, the WH and both houses of Congress.

And you're posting this?

WTF. I read all these posts and Steven, I must say you really, really seem to dislike Sanders. But, you know, he talks about kitchen table issues. The stuff people worry about. The stuff that will win us elections. Why do you care so much about this one little thing, Steven? It's just so...unimportant...in the great scheme of things.

Oh, well. Our democracy is nearly a dead duck anyway. So what the heck! They are TOTALLY WRONG for inviting Sanders to speak at their conference! Yep.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
97. I can fight Trump and advocate for diversity issues at the same time.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:23 PM
Oct 2017

As a matter of fact, sometimes both are the same thing.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
107. I'm so pleased with your concern for my sleeping schedule but no and no.
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:41 PM
Oct 2017

No, I'm a night owl and no, I'm not bashing.

 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
110. I think Trump will win in 2020
Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:55 PM
Oct 2017

I think Bernie will run and I won't vote for him no matter what and there are many democrats like me

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,867 posts)
203. mmm hmmm
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:06 PM
Oct 2017

Your post had nothing to do with throwing shade on Sanders.

Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. I'm not that stupid.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
206. Lol, you have no idea what a joke that is. Sorry, no sale.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:14 PM
Oct 2017

Play that violin elsewhere, manufactured melodrama doesn’t work on me.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
218. +1000, notice that there is zero concern about the
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:56 PM
Oct 2017

actual women's conference, but rather Sanders' image and how He is treated. Just more proof this is not about the women at the women's conference.

philly_bob

(2,419 posts)
222. Right, Betsuni, I'm not at all worried about Bernie,
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 03:29 PM
Oct 2017

I'm worried about posters who identify with a Democratic strategy that lost big in 2016 trying to build a consensus against progressives on DU by -- what shall I say? -- snarky harping and disingenuous outrage.

OhioBlue

(5,126 posts)
121. IMHO - It is just more noise taking away from the disaster that is the Trump administration
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:16 AM
Oct 2017

I'm sorry - but these posts on DU just seem frustrating to me. I really don't care who the speakers are at a women's conference in Detroit. I'm freaking out about health care, the dismantling of environmental protections, the Iran deal, North Korea, Puerto Rico etc. What the hell is Trump and the Congress even doing? I can't keep up. I've found myself googling NFL operations manuals only to wonder why? What am I even doing? What are any of us doing? What matters?

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
175. Maxine Waters is the keynote.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 08:00 AM
Oct 2017

Surprised that people who are so concerned about this convention don't know these facts.

 

coolsandy

(479 posts)
126. This seems to be part of the continued rationalization (or a sadistic doubling down)
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:14 AM
Oct 2017

by some for mistakes made in 2016 election.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
131. After what happened to Barbara Boxer, DWS and a certain prominent Democrat
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:18 AM
Oct 2017

It's hard to imagine that somebody wouldn't have noticed that this looks really bad.

Glamrock

(11,781 posts)
132. Jesus man!
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:39 AM
Oct 2017

If it bothers you so much, don't go. If it's too late to get a refund, I'm sorry, but no one is forcing you to listen to him speak. There are 59 other speakers there.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
208. Ny name isnt Jesus, and this is a political discussion forum
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:17 PM
Oct 2017

We discuss politics including diversity issues.

If that bothers you so much, don’t read the posts.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
247. Seriously...the endless repetition of the phrase "hasn't been a particular backer"
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:51 PM
Oct 2017

isn't bashing?

You do realize that a lot of women, particularly women under 30 to 35, don't see Bernie as someone who isn't on their side, right?

Whatever you may have intended, this thread reads as a continuation of your endless campaign against everyone to the left of your comfort level, and everyone who challenges the Democratic insider narrative.

To build a sustainable non-Trump majority, there needs to be an engagement with the Sanders movement. This invitation is, in my estimation, about such a process of engagement.

And I'm not sure it's the place of either of us, as men, to lecture a women's organization on who they should invite as speaker-especially since I'm fairly sure that you would not only insist that they invite a woman-which is a reasonable thing to at least suggest-but also that they only invite an ally of HRC, and then only one who would perpetuate the "it's Bernie's fault that Hillary's not president, therefore we have a responsibility to never listen to or engage with any of his supporters" thing.

It's time to let 2016 go, steven. The result was caused by a perfect storm and no one change-including Bernie being barred from the Democratic primaries and the primaries becoming a bland, passionless debate-free dead zone like you'd have preferred-would have made any difference.

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
137. He has a history of disparaging
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:37 AM
Oct 2017

"identity politics" and many women and people of color have been put off by that.He thinks economic justice will naturally lead to every other kind of justice.


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

Bernie Sanders said Monday that the path to success for Democrats has to be through more than just identity politics, adding that it’s simply not enough for the party to base its appeals on diversity.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.

SNIP

“And one message I do have for Democrats is that a strategy that’s just micro-targeting particular, discrete groups in a Democratic coalition sometimes will win you elections, but it’s not going to win you the broad mandate that you need,” Obama told reporters during a joint news conference in Lima, Peru, on Sunday.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #137)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
139. Many women were offended by this statement of Bernie's, and others like it.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:45 AM
Oct 2017

Hillary was extremely well qualified. It was demeaning to suggest she was asking for votes merely on the basis of being a woman.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710


“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #139)

Response to pnwmom (Reply #141)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
143. Trump WAS deliberately hovering over her and invading her personal space. That was a form
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:55 AM
Oct 2017

of harassment. And yet she only brought that up AFTER the election. The last thing she was, was a damsel in distress.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #143)

Response to pnwmom (Reply #145)

Response to JI7 (Reply #147)

Response to JI7 (Reply #150)

Response to JI7 (Reply #153)

Response to JI7 (Reply #155)

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
173. Played the vagina card?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:32 AM
Oct 2017

That seems an odd thing to say. But I have seen this comment before, just not here.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
165. I don't. I am a woman. And while I respect all opinions. I won't go see a guy open a woman's
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:16 AM
Oct 2017

conference. We need a prominent woman to do this. It should be Maxine who is awesome. And Sen. Sanders is a particularly bad choice as he wants to emphasize economic rights while de-emphasizing identity politics which include woman's rights, gay rights and civil right.(remember Heath Mello?). He also called planned parenthood establishment. I was going to this conference for a day even though I shouldn't as my hubs just went back to work. And, I went to the Woman's march; it was great, but this no...I am not going. They ruined it by making it controversial and divisive which is the last thing we need.

Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #165)

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
171. And yes some women and people of color had a problem with that. Not all by a long-shot, and I doubt
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:28 AM
Oct 2017

even most.

I myself do not fall into either group but I entirely agree with the sentiment that it should be about the actual policies that help or hurt women or people of color, not simply about identifying as a bonafide representative of one group or another. I personally was dismayed at how vague Clinton's campaigning actually was. She said little of substance often, because no doubt, that was the strategy they thought was best...to try to be everything to her likely voters, and to alienate none of them. The one thing that she and her surrogates did campaign on though, vigorously, was that she was a woman. They calculated that that would be a winning message at this point in history. "I'm with her." "There's a special place in hell for women who don't vote for Hillary." Etc. I understand that approach. I appreciate that her fairly conventional unwllingness to delve deep into specifics that might piss off one institution or another was a tactical choice that may not have reflected on how she governed from the White House at all, but I'm tired of that convention, and I think it has led us to where we are today.

No doubt, as people like to point out here, her platform was well laid out on her website. But actual policy was hardly what she stumped on. Her go-to's of "I will work with people in the industry to find common ground...blah blah..." were completely empty of specific goals. She was going for a feeling. She was selling identity, and not just hers, but party identity. That was all well and good, had there been more details that she was selling...had there been more big ideas, had there been well defined(and lofty enough) goal-posts...

As to economic justice....you cannot move on social justice without it. I would love to see a salient argument that makes that case. As to Sanders trying to move on economic justice without social justice, that characterization hardly reflects his time in congress or the Senate. He just actually recognizes that the failure of moving towards economic justice is stunting our ability to move forward on social justice. Everybody needs to fucking recognize that already.

Response to JCanete (Reply #171)

treestar

(82,383 posts)
193. He ticks me off
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:21 AM
Oct 2017

No one ever said vote for Hillary solely because she is a woman. And she does have the courage to stand up to Wall Street, blah, blah, blah.

He was the one being oversimplistic.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
168. That was almost 60 years ago...and his comments of late have been about emphasizing economic
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:23 AM
Oct 2017

justice over human rights or what he calls identity politics.

Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #168)

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
162. Oh come on, among numerous speakers allies to these groups have no business speaking? They
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:03 AM
Oct 2017

don't help to draw attention to these causes? You've got to be kidding. Sanders is 1 of many many many speakers...and there are only two men at the whole damn convention. This outrage is fucking ludicrous.
 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
172. that is depressingly vague. Who doesn't. What's the attention you are getting that you object to?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:30 AM
Oct 2017

You don't like the man, and I have to say, more than anything, I feel like that's what this comes down to. It wasn't that long ago that you were decrying Sanders going into a debate where he was tasked with defending the ACA, remember?

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
179. I don't care for Sen. Sanders. I am a Democrat, and he has said some things I wish he hadn't about
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 08:54 AM
Oct 2017

the Democratic Party. I won't vote for him in a 2020 primary, but that has nothing to do with this. It is a women's conference. Maxine Waters a champion of human rights including woman's rights should have opened this conference. And as no one can deny Sen. Sanders has said things negative things about identity politics and planned parenthood as well...all of this adds up to Sen. Sanders was a bad choice for this conference, and if they were going to do this, it should have been done during the time, one could get the money back for a ticket... I am out over $100.00 plus the cost of the hotel room. I am not going now. I won't be so trusting next time if this group plans another event. The Women's march was great. This is very divisive and harkens back to the 2016 election in my opinion...we just don't need that. I hate to be cynical...but this looks like an effort to sell expensive tickets.

Whiskeytide

(4,459 posts)
181. So you are going to miss the conference...
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 09:47 AM
Oct 2017

... and all it has to offer because 1 of something like 50 speakers/programs is a politician with whom you have some disagreements? And it's not even actuall policy disagreements so much as the prioritization of his policy hierarchy?

I don't always like the blunt criticism Sanders sometimes hurls at the democratic leadership (not democratic people, liberals, progressives or even democratic planks - just the leadership as far as I can tell), and sometimes I think his mouth outruns his brain. But some of it's not wrong. And we - Democrats - use to benefit from criticism before Boris and Natasha started fanning the flames of vitriolic division. It's not always bad to remind progressive leaders to lead progressively.

But I wish you would reconsider not attending the conference. What's the downside? You might enjoy 95% of it (a pretty good ROI), you might hear Sanders speak and find a way to reconcile some of your differences with him - or at least mitigate them. Or you can skip his program and hang out at the pool.

I am genuinely starting to be concerned that 2018 and especially 2020 are going to be republican landslides unless we figure out a way to get down to issues and not this overhyped division. It's 3 years until 2020. We're either going to get our shit together, or get flushed. It's up to us.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
260. I wanted to go to a Woman's conference...not a political rally and it seems to me that this is what
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:32 PM
Oct 2017

we have here...very disappointing.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
277. I refuse to attend this conference because it is not a woman's conference which I signed up for...
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:27 AM
Oct 2017

but a political rally.

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
245. As a man you know more than the organizers of the event?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:44 PM
Oct 2017

Who nominated you to make these rules? Face it, you do not like Bernie so you cannot miss an excuse to slam him. Argue against his politics, fine, as long as it is fair, but crap like this is just unnecessary division we do not need.

Bernie has constantly fought for equal rights for everyone. He doesn't have to be a member of each particular class of discriminated individuals to do so, and neither do we! As a matter of fact, we should all be fighting against discrimination in all forms and each group of discriminated people need outsiders to join their cause to fight the hate and prejudice!

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
249. Has this group reserved speaking slots exclusively for women in the past?
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:58 PM
Oct 2017

And would you have been this strenuous in objecting to any other man being invited?

It sound like this is more about you refusing to let 2016 go and work for unity through respect and engagement than it is any actual concern for who speaks at this conference.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
257. First conference in 40 years. But there is precedent for inviting men
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:11 PM
Oct 2017

And I wrote an OP recently about one of the more famous men invitees that I think sets the standard. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029708758#post9

This shows how silly Sanders being invited really is

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
265. I hadn't realized this was a fortieth anniversary event. That conference was heroic.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 09:37 PM
Oct 2017

I get it that you are on an endless vendetta against Bernie(and would probably be outraged that anyone who supports the values of his campaign would be speaking to the Conference) but it's hypocritical to invoke the 1977 event-especially since nobody you would want to see speaking on the first day supports the program outlined in the Call to Action and none have worked to implement any significant part of it.

And you would probably be outraged if the things outlined in the Call to Action were ever proposed as planks for a Democratic platform.

I salute the 1977 conference. Perhaps those who are organizing the 2017 conference are trying to re-connect with the kind of politics that animated it.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
266. Nope, I voiced my specific objections in two OPs.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 09:50 PM
Oct 2017

Either address those or you and I have nothing else to discuss on this issue.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
269. Your specific objections can be summarized thusly:
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 10:05 PM
Oct 2017

1) You hate Bernie. think he should never have been allowed to run in our primary, and won't stop your vendetta against not only him but his supporters until this party totally anathemizes all of them.

2) For some reason, you think you are a greater authority on who and what the Women's Conference should hear than the Women's Conference themselves.

I would personally advise Bernie to turn down the invitation for the greater good, but I respect the right of the Conference to make its own choices.




KPN

(15,587 posts)
186. Says a male.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:10 AM
Oct 2017

BS analogies -- nothing but hyperbole.

Too many people already expressed why your OP is off base above for me to do so at this point -- not going to repeat everything? Just quit with the Bernie hate already. All you are doing is dividing.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
211. Nope, the conference organizers, who are women, all acknowledged the choice was controversial
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:23 PM
Oct 2017

So sorry, your argument fails.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
214. Okay I can play that game.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:35 PM
Oct 2017

Nope ... the organizers knew it would be controversial for some but felt the positives outweighed any controversy so went ahead with it. Your argument fails.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
248. It's not your place to lecture a women's group as to who they should invite to speak.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:55 PM
Oct 2017

Were I a woman and a member of the group making the decision, I wouldn't have invited Bernie myself-I'd have invited a women who was either neutral in the '16 primaries, like Elizabeth Warren, OR if not available a woman who backed Bernie, as many women under 35 did, to speak-but I recognize that it's their forum and their decision.

It's too late to reverse it now.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
189. They have the word Women in their title
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 11:14 AM
Oct 2017

But apparently, they are more of a Bernie organization than a women's organization.

Could be like the "socialist" in the name of the Nazi party.

If he is one of the speakers that is one thing, but as the top speaker, that proves they are more Bernie than they are Women.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
196. Maxine Waters is the keynote speaker.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 12:23 PM
Oct 2017

Is Maxine Waters a Berniebro now?

Only 2 men out of 60 invited

This little dust up has reached ludicrous stage now.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
197. I was under the impression that
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 12:37 PM
Oct 2017

Bernie was. If Maxine opens it that makes it more a women’s organization

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
200. Bernie's still opening it. But after the backlash, they announced Maxine
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:44 PM
Oct 2017

would be a "keynote." On another day. As of September 19th, however, there still wasn't a confirmation that Maxine was even coming. That happened later.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
202. So basically they had a PR disaster on their hands after all the pushback they received
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:04 PM
Oct 2017

Great to hear Maxine will be keynoting.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
231. they said they announced the keynote as Waters weeks ago. Do you have an article or evidence you've
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:37 PM
Oct 2017

uncovered or failed to find of that fact after searching that you are using to support your claim that her keynote was an afterthought or damage-control?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
232. Yeah, that's what they're saying now. But as of Sept 19th they still weren't confirming Maxine
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:42 PM
Oct 2017

was going to be attending, much less be a keynote -- though they were happy to use her "voice" in naming their convention.

ept. 19:

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/09/19/maxine-waters-womens-convention-detroit/682216001/

In its announcement, the Women's March organization said Waters' words: "resonate beyond the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives. Women everywhere are tired of being interrupted, of being told to sit down, shut up and take less space.

SNIP

The words "reclaiming my time" were used in memes that spread on social media like weeds in an untended garden. DJ Adam Joseph turned it into a dance mix and Broadway performer Mykal Kilgore came up with a gospel version of the words in a nod to the congresswoman.

SNIP

Tamika Mallory, co-president of Women's March, said in a statement that the organization is honored to have Waters' voice "play such a pivotal role in our convention. 'Reclaiming Our Time' really captures the essence of this convention and why we believe this is such an important moment to convene, make our voices heard, and show that the rise of the woman is the rise of the nation.”

The Free Press left a message Tuesday with Waters' office in Washington, D.C., trying to confirm whether she would attend the event or serve as a speaker or panelist. She did not respond. A spokeswoman for the Women's Convention could not confirm Tuesday whether Waters would attend the convention or play a role in its events.

Few other details are available about the convention, which is five weeks away.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
233. but it's October 14th now, and the backlash started a couple days ago. when was she confirmed
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:44 PM
Oct 2017

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
234. The backlash came when they announced Bernie, and Tamika appeared to confirm
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:52 PM
Oct 2017

that he was the "headliner."

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
240. Yes. She didn't correct the reporter who used the word "headliner" to refer to Bernie,
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:24 PM
Oct 2017

as reported in an article on October 12.

Being one of a "lot of other people" at the conference isn't equivalent to being the opening speaker or the headliner.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/12/bernie-sanders-speech-womens-convention/756825001/

When Women's March co-founder Tamika Mallory was asked: "People are going to say, wait a minute, there’s a man as the headliner at the Women’s Convention, the first women’s convention in 40 years?" she replied:

"I would say that (U.S. Rep.) Maxine Waters is also coming to the conference, and we know she has been a very, very powerful voice in terms of all we’ve seen happening in terms of this administration, particularly, and she’ll be at the conference as well. And a lot of other people have been invited to the conference and we’re hoping to hear back from these folks. Thankfully, SenatorSanders has agreed to attend."

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,867 posts)
205. Bernie is the first speaker; Maxine is the keynote
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:08 PM
Oct 2017

Do you need someone to explain to you which is the most important position?

I went to a concert. The big name band went last. A band I never heard of went first. Want to guess which band people named when they talked about which concert they went to.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
217. I need to find out who is the keynote as
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:53 PM
Oct 2017

the other poster in this exchange claimed it was Maxine.

And Bernie is just speaking on the first day - presumably the second day is OK as that is when the other male person is speaking.

This organization seems a bit Bernie-related to me rather than being just a women's organization, but I likely have a lot to learn.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
227. Nope, the conference organizers, who are women, all acknowledged they knew the choice would be
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:18 PM
Oct 2017

controversial.

Sorry, they validated my opinion. You need to move on to another superficial accusation.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
250. No, they didn't validate your opionion.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 06:00 PM
Oct 2017

They simply acknowledged that people might disagree with their decision.

The group could hardly say anything else.

They weren't agreeing with you and revoking the invitation.


 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
253. That is validating my opinion
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 06:44 PM
Oct 2017

Fact is, a number of proBernie speaking folks have tried to use a number of disengenuous attacks on people critical of the decision to have him as speaker.
Including the hilarious accusations of mansolaining from people who have never been interested in women’s issues before or the whole “They are WOC” line from people who have both never been interested in women’s issues or issues regarding people of color.

Both of those attacks are invalidated by the fact that the organizers who made the decision who are WOC acknowledged that they knew the decision was controversial. So as you can see, it can’t be mansplaining or against WOC to think so.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
256. They are simply validating the idea that not everyone would agree about their decision.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:09 PM
Oct 2017

They are not agreeing that you, personally, are right and that they were wrong.

They simply said some folks wouldn't like it-they aren't saying they're obligated to defer to those who don't like it-especially those who aren't women.

People who preferred Hillary to Bernie in the primaries are not the ONLY supporters of feminism, they don't OWN feminism as a concept, and you, as a man, are not entitled to women as to who they invite to speak. None of us are.


 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
237. He shouldn't speak at the conference. But this shouldn't be another excuse to go after him.
Sat Oct 14, 2017, 05:15 PM
Oct 2017

Bernie didn't invite himself to this thing...he himself isn't the problem...what I'd say he should do is to suggest that instead of him, they should invite a woman who wasn't associated with EITHER 2016 campaign to speak to the group.

You'd be ok with that, right?

The speech should be given by a woman from the next generation of feminist leaders, as our party needs to move on to the next generation of political leaders.



 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
271. LOL
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 12:07 AM
Oct 2017

Seems to me working for the empowerment of women needs to include letting them invite whoever they want to speak.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
282. I'm happy that the organizers made the right decision and moved Bernie to a break out session
Tue Oct 17, 2017, 11:19 PM
Oct 2017

and that he no longer has a prominent speaking role in the main hall on the first day.

As I said in my OP, had this not been changed it would have been wrong no matter which diversity group you were talking about.

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