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Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:18 PM

Boy Scouting to open to girls and the misogyny I am seeing

Yesterday, Boy Scouts of America announced that starting in the Fall of 2018, Cub Scouting will open to girls (K-5). Currently, Scouting is co-ed for 14-21 year old youth involved in Venturing, Exploring, STEM, and Sea Scouts. The only part of the program that will remain boys only will be Boy Scouts, youth aged 11-18.

My family has been involved in Scouting since they eliminated the ban on gay Scouts several years ago. In fact, there was a massive influx of boys into our Pack at that time, mostly parents who did not want their kids to learn hate (as one parent put it). We believe in the aims and values of Scouting as beneficial to Youth and were thrilled to learn about Venturers and Explorers. Both of our boys would like to join Venturing some day.

After the announcement yesterday, I was thrilled. Mr AC was thrilled too. Our boys are excited that girls will get to join and have all the recognition for the fun they have already been having with their brothers. See, parents have been bringing the female siblings of our Scouts to meetings, activities, and camp for years. It is a family organization. The girls participate with the boys. But they get no recognition. They can't join. Many are in Girl Scouts which is a wonderful organization as well. But their programming is different than Boy Scouts and many of the girls who join us say our outings are more fun. They like to do the Slip and Slide into the mud pit. They like shooting BB guns and archery. They like swimming, the climbing wall, boating, and all the other things we do at camp.

I was not prepared for the backlash that this announcement has brought forth. The misogyny, the nastiness, the downgrading of Scouts for allowing girls (in their opinion). I've had well-meaning parents say "but boys aren't ready to lead at the same age as girls and the girls will get all the leadership positions". Really? Boys can't learn to lead if girls are included? What does that say we are thinking about our boys?

I've had people say that the name is "boy" scouts and that does not mean girls. Cub Scouts is a gender inclusive name. Most other nations have co-ed Scouting. The US is one of a handful of nations that is not. In fact, a cursory search found the US and Singapore (and even they mention "youth" so I think that has changed).

I have heard that adding girls is an underhanded move to take girls away from Girl Scouts (it isn't...different programs), improve sagging numbers (maybe...but why shouldn't we work to include everyone?), and that we are trying to deflect attention from our "sexual abuse problem" (that from GMA this morning quoting a Girl Scout spokeperson. We have been in Scouting now for 5 years. We have seen nothing of this "problem". In fact, adults go to GREAT LENGTHS to make sure our youth protection program is strictly adhered to.

What is deeply troubling is how many people in social media (and former members of our Pack) are saying that this makes the whole organization "worthless", "pointless", and "watered down" including girls. One person said the BSA should remove the word "America" from their name since this is no longer America when girls are allowed!

I will let the dust settle and try to toughen up, but it is horrifying to me the way girls (and boys to an extent) are being dragged through the mud to defend a worldview of boys need to be men...and how can we raise them to be "men" if there are girls involved? In the meantime, most of the leadership in our Pack supports and welcomes girls next year. We just don't know where we will put everyone as we are already bursting at the seams.

The important thing is that we feel our kids are raised right in that they said "That's great!" when they heard their female friends and fellow students might join them next year.

37 replies, 2834 views

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Reply Boy Scouting to open to girls and the misogyny I am seeing (Original post)
AllyCat Oct 12 OP
msongs Oct 12 #1
AllyCat Oct 12 #2
WinkyDink Oct 12 #4
Codeine Oct 12 #13
MineralMan Oct 12 #14
tymorial Oct 12 #16
Bradical79 Oct 12 #20
GulfCoast66 Oct 12 #17
DK504 Oct 12 #27
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 12 #29
GulfCoast66 Oct 12 #31
AllyCat Oct 12 #36
WinkyDink Oct 12 #3
AllyCat Oct 12 #11
Initech Oct 12 #5
AllyCat Oct 12 #10
virgogal Oct 12 #26
Initech Oct 12 #30
hurple Oct 12 #6
AllyCat Oct 12 #8
TheFrenchRazor Oct 12 #23
AllyCat Oct 12 #33
brooklynite Oct 12 #7
AllyCat Oct 12 #9
Iggo Oct 12 #12
AllyCat Oct 12 #15
Iggo Oct 12 #18
AllyCat Oct 12 #19
Iggo Oct 13 #37
Initech Oct 12 #22
malaise Oct 12 #21
yortsed snacilbuper Oct 12 #24
AllyCat Oct 12 #34
cbdo2007 Oct 12 #25
AllyCat Oct 12 #35
DK504 Oct 12 #28
d_r Oct 12 #32

Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:30 PM

1. nice to see the paramilitary boy scouts gonna teach girls how to shoot guns too nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:34 PM

2. Ah, yes, that is what this is all about.

How insightful.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:38 PM

4. Nope.

 

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 01:19 PM

13. JFC nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 01:25 PM

14. Well, the REAL military is doing the same thing.

Women serve in combat now, you know. Now, I don't like the paramilitary nature of the Boy Scouts much at all, but women also fight in our military. So...that argument sort of disappears I think.

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 01:43 PM

16. I am eagle scout and I never once shot a gun the entire time I was in scouts.

Also give me a break with this paramilitary bullshit. Jesus Christ.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 03:28 PM

20. We did here

National Gaurd came in every year here in Ohio and taught us how to handle various guns, got to shoot the M-16s, and look at an M-60 (?) up close. Young teenage me loved it.

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 01:44 PM

17. Guess I missed the paramilitary merit badge nt

Last edited Thu Oct 12, 2017, 10:09 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 04:52 PM

27. I don't remember that badge on both my nephews Eagle Scout

banners or during the ceremonies when we celebrated the huge amount of experience the boys were getting. Never heard them being hateful to girls or women.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 04:59 PM

29. I think there was a "Rifle and Shotgun" or Marksmanship merit badge

I remember shooting single shot 22's at one summer camp but that was the only time we ever did anything with guns.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #29)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 06:31 PM

31. There are several surrounding firearms

All teach gun safety and responsibile gun ownership. Along with marksmanship. None are required.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 09:09 PM

36. Exactly. Not required.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:38 PM

3. The Girl Scouts of America org. is NOT HAPPY. Consensus is that the BSoA is massively losing boys:

 

1. Open to gays; and
2. Mormons, who made up HUGE numbers of Scouts ("1 in 6", are dropping out/not joining.

https://ldsmag.com/church-drops-boy-scout-programs-for-older-teens/

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS AND SURVIVAL, NOT GENDER EQUALITY.

The GSoA is TICKED OFF:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41588054

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:54 PM

11. We know. LDS wanted their own program when we included gay Scouts

Then with the inclusion of gay leaders and transgender Scouts, they just wanted out. I disagree that it is about numbers. Yes, there is a component. But we have families asking for this. However, with the gender-specific dens, I'm not so sure that is going to make it easier for families. I wish the dens would be co-ed. Maybe that will come.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:41 PM

5. Trump enabled the haters, and they're going to hate.

Sometimes in situations like this it's best to put the phone / laptop down and go outside.

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Response to Initech (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:51 PM

10. Thank you. You are right. I have a Pack meeting to plan anyway.

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Response to Initech (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 04:13 PM

26. I see NO connection to Trump here. Why politicise EVERYTHING?

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Response to virgogal (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 05:31 PM

30. The hate, bigotry and misogyny in this country has got out of control thanks to Trump.

Has it not?

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:43 PM

6. question

Is Girl Scouts a different entity entirely with different "corporate" headquarters and such?

If not, why not combine the programs into just "Scouts" and everybody everybody can do everything?

Girls can learn shooting and archery and boys can learn cooking and cleaning (yes, I'm being snarky with that last comment, but not the question)

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Response to hurple (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:50 PM

8. It is completely different. They have their own "brand" as they call it.

We have always had a good working relationship with GSUSA, but their program has a different focus. Ours will not change because there are girls in our organization at the Cub Scout level. Girls are ALREADY in the upper/older levels of Scouting. We teach our male youth (Cubs) cooking now. I am not privy to the conversation about what happened with not joining forces. I suspect they did not want to do this, but I'm not sure. Scouting is co-ed, truly, in most of the rest of the world and the World Scouting Organization is applauding the BSA announcement.

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Response to hurple (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 03:55 PM

23. yes; why don't they just have Human Scouts; is the gender focus really necessary? nt

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Response to TheFrenchRazor (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 09:02 PM

33. Most other nations do not. They just call it Scouts or Guides

Baby steps.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:47 PM

7. ...but girls have cooties.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 12:50 PM

9. Well, I think that is where a lot of this is coming from.

It's disappointing.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 01:00 PM

12. You weren't expecting the totally and completely predictable pushback...

...that happens every damn time girls are included in something that was just for boys?

Really?

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Response to Iggo (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 01:36 PM

15. Not the level I am seeing.

I expected some. But it is more than I thought it would be. The glass ceiling is lower than I'd hoped. Even on DU.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 02:39 PM

18. It's the Boy Scouts.

They lost their shit when they were asked to include gay kids.

The lost their shit when they were asked to stop raping children.

Of COURSE they're gonna lose their shit when they have to play with icky girls.

Jeez.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 03:11 PM

19. That is really insulting. We are working to make it better

Many wonderful people in this organization.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:05 AM

37. Yes, that description of the behavior of the BSA is insulting.

It's meant to be.

What I find more insulting than a description of the behavior of the BSA is the actual behavior of the BSA.

There's a reason people are working to make the BSA better than it is. It needs to be.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 03:46 PM

22. Or vice versa?

Remember when all hell broke loose last year among the Christian right when the Girl Scouts admitted transgender troops and they said the apocalypse was coming? Fuck those people.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 03:32 PM

21. Well my sisters and I were all

Girl Guides and I never wanted to be a Scout.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 04:07 PM

24. Boy Scouts STILL shun nontheists

The Boy Scouts of America has dismantled all of its barriers but one: its rule barring atheists and nonreligious members.

https://ffrf.org/outreach/freethought-badge?utm_source=Master+list&utm_campaign=dfcb80317e-AA&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c424ccfb80-dfcb80317e-23468621

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Response to yortsed snacilbuper (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 09:03 PM

34. True. There are many of us hoping that will be the next

Pillar to fall. Many Scouts and Scouters are atheists and “in hiding”.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 04:09 PM

25. Just because people are against it doesn't make it misogyny

Let the Boy Scouts be for boys and the Girl Scouts be for girls and create a new one called Fun Scouts for both boys and girls.

I don't see any reason to open up Boy Scouts to girls or Girl Scouts to boys, and I like that my own daughters go to Girl Scouts and it is just girls in there.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 09:07 PM

35. They are not the same.

The comments I have gotten are related to girls watering down Scouting. Girl Scouts have a different focus. They are still relevant for many girls and boys should they allow them to join.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 04:54 PM

28. One person said the BSA should remove the word "America" from their name since this is no longer

"... America when girls are allowed! "

That's one of the stranger things I've heard.

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Response to AllyCat (Original post)

Thu Oct 12, 2017, 08:55 PM

32. Change

Flips out people on the right and left, makes strange bedfellows. Most of the people who complain the loudest at this point have no dog in the hunt and didn't care yesterday or tomorrow that girls who did the same requirements as boys didn't get the badge but now will be able to. The people it actual impacts knew it was coming for months, this is just the daily news cycle noise and they will find a new outrage tomorrow.

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