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Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:11 PM

Guns Kills More People Than ALL "illegal" Drugs Combined


Of course I don't have any stats for this statement. As we have learned over the course of this mass shooting the gun lobby has been very successful in stopping any research into this area. So, this is just an observation.


The politicians have made claims throughout the decades to decry the horrors of drugs and how it is saving the lives of children (won't anyone think about the children) and they did everything in their power to create a War on Drugs.

However, when it comes to children and gun violence they are on the ready to defend the NRA and the rest of the gun lobby.

And I suppose it should be pointed out that this flies in the face of hypocrisy with their pro-life agenda (won't anyone think about the children) being shot by careless gun owners?

Perhaps because drugs are illegal there wasn't anyone to lobby congress without the fear of being busted. If there had been lobbyist for the illegal drug trade they wouldn't have created the WOD.




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Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Guns Kills More People Than ALL "illegal" Drugs Combined (Original post)
MagickMuffin Oct 2017 OP
BigmanPigman Oct 2017 #1
MagickMuffin Oct 2017 #4
inwiththenew Oct 2017 #2
Orrex Oct 2017 #5
hack89 Oct 2017 #10
Orrex Oct 2017 #15
hack89 Oct 2017 #20
Orrex Oct 2017 #24
MagickMuffin Oct 2017 #7
JoeStuckInOH Oct 2017 #21
Orrex Oct 2017 #3
Iggo Oct 2017 #13
hack89 Oct 2017 #6
MagickMuffin Oct 2017 #11
hack89 Oct 2017 #12
Orrex Oct 2017 #23
JoeStuckInOH Oct 2017 #8
DanTex Oct 2017 #9
MagickMuffin Oct 2017 #14
hack89 Oct 2017 #18
hack89 Oct 2017 #16
Hoyt Oct 2017 #27
Not Ruth Oct 2017 #17
NutmegYankee Oct 2017 #19
Not Ruth Oct 2017 #22
Orrex Oct 2017 #25
Not Ruth Oct 2017 #29
Orrex Oct 2017 #30
sarisataka Oct 2017 #26
Hoyt Oct 2017 #28

Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:14 PM

1. I was thinking the same thing but would like to see some

evidence/facts to support this.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:22 PM

4. Well since the gun lobby has effectively stopped any serious research


I am not sure how to find the data. But it would be great if there was an investigative reporter to delve into finding some kind of data to link the two together.

And of course this does not include any legalized and sanctioned drugs. They DO have a lobby for congress and get their way. If you know what I mean $$$$$$$$!

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:19 PM

2. You might want to check your numbers

Overdose death are almost 2x that of gun deaths.

They are also the leading cause of death for American under 50.

[link:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/05/upshot/opioid-epidemic-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-faster-than-ever.html|

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Response to inwiththenew (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:22 PM

5. The OP stipulates illegal drugs, though

Does the article distinguish between prescription opioids and non-prescription drugs?

It's a picky but important distinction IMO.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:26 PM

10. Illegally obtained prescription drugs are illegal drugs. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:30 PM

15. Of course, but if I believe I can legally swallow my whole bottle of prescribed Oxy

Not recommended, mind you, but not illegal either.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:33 PM

20. The opioid epidemic is not fueled by people abusing the drugs their doctor gave them

it is users that started on prescription drugs they bought before moving on to cheaper heroin.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:41 PM

24. Yes, upon reflection I agree with you

I just posted further on it here

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Response to inwiththenew (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:25 PM

7. I specifically mentioned Illegal Drugs


The opioid crisis is mostly sanctioned drugs by the drug pushing lobby.



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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:34 PM

21. Are deaths by illegal narcotics somehow worse/better than deaths due to abusing pharmaceuticals?

 

Drug abuse is drug abuse and death by OD is death by OD. One isn't somehow more sanctimonious or better than the other. What's the purpose in differentiating opiate pain killers versus meth/heroin/cocaine/fentanyl?

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:20 PM

3. Even the marijuana? I'm told that the marijuana is DEADLY!

Years back, a friend OD'ed on pot and helplessly watched a 14-hour SpongeBob marathon from start to finish.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:29 PM

13. I OD'd on weed a bunch of times, and every time it led to...

...sleep.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:25 PM

6. That would be incorrect. The opioid epidemic is much worse.

Each year, more than 40,000 Americans die from drug overdoses. That’s on par with the annual death toll from HIV/AIDS at the peak of the US epidemic, in the late ’80s and early ’90s, and far more than are killed each year from car accidents or gun violence. More than half of those overdose deaths involved opioids, a class of drugs including heroin, Vicodin, OxyContin, and fentanyl.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/opioid-charts-explainer/

The scary thing is that drug deaths are increasing nearly 20% annually.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:27 PM

11. These drugs are NOT illegal


I specially mentioned illegal drugs. Not drugs sanctioned by the drug pushing industry.




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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:29 PM

12. Illegally obtained prescription drugs are illegal drugs in the eyes of the law.

They are smuggled by criminals, sold by criminals and used by criminals. Not complicated.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:40 PM

23. Not complicated, but not disputed either

Upon review, I'll disclaim that I think that the OP is making a frankly pointless distinction, largely for rhetorical purposes.

When discussing guns being deliberately used to cause death, for example, it is reasonable to include both homicides and suicides in that total, because both are deliberate. Nevertheless, some will split hairs and insist that gun suicides should be excluded because of reasons.


So when we're discussing the raw lethality of opioid drugs, it doesn't really matter whether the victim got his pills from the pharmacy or from the guy behind the gas station. And the gun victim is just as dead whether he pulled the trigger or some rich fuckhead did it.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:25 PM

8. Just looked it up... and it's not even close. Drug OD Deaths are currently around 60k-65k per year.

 

Drug OD Deaths are currently around 60k-65k per year. Obviously nearly 100% of these are self inflicted/administered (though suicidal intent unknown).

Gun Deaths have recently Hovered in the 30,000-35,000 per annum range (which looks to be relatively low compared to the 1980's and 1990's. It also consistently looks like about 2/3 of firearms deaths are suicide and the remaining 1/3 are actual homicides.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:26 PM

9. Depends what you mean by "illegal".

Drug overdoses kill about 60K Americans per year, guns about 30K.

But, over half of the ODs are from prescription-legal opiods (although that doesn't mean the person taking the drug actually bought them legally).

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Response to DanTex (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:29 PM

14. Well I clarified in my OP that I was only referring to illegal drugs


Everyone here has obviously missed the point. I am not talking about prescription drugs. They have a lobby to make sure they can still peddle their drugs.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:31 PM

18. So clarify your op to distinguish legal versus illegal guns. nt

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:30 PM

16. So break down guns deaths into illegal guns and legal guns.

so you can be logically consistent.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:50 PM

27. Almost all guns start out "legal." Then, some gun nut with a crap load of the things sells one to

somebody they don't know -- without a background check -- for a fistful of cash, or the gun is stolen. Point is, legal purchasers start the process, fuel the gun industry, and directly or indirectly contribute to armed crime.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:31 PM

17. In Jersey, everything is legal if you don't get caught

 

Just going by famous celebrity deaths, I think that drugs win big time. No stats though. One could make the case that any adult taking drugs recreationally is probably committing suicide slowly. Same as consuming trans fats, not exercising and having unprotected sex. Smoking is definitely suicide.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:31 PM

19. Just heroin, cocaine, and meth alone equaled the gun death rate in 2016

The numbers are readily retrieved.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Original post)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:39 PM

22. If you want to cut gun deaths in half next year, I have the solution

 

Legalize pain free suicide and make the fixings (chemical) available over the counter at cost. It would greatly reduce suicide by gun.

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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:47 PM

25. Wait a minute.

Are you proposing that this easy on-demand suicide be made available to anyone who wants it, or simply to those facing terminal illness?

If the former, well, that's pretty fucked up. If the latter, then how many gun suicides would this mitigate? Surely you don't imagine that all gun suicides are committed by terminal patients seeking to escape their disease? Let's see some statistics on that.


Regardless, it's a pointless exercise with no purpose except to absolve guns for their role in 30,000+ annual deaths in the US.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:58 PM

29. Most gun deaths are suicides, legal suicide with pain free chemicals does at least 2 things

 

Reduces the use of guns in suicides

Allows the person to consider means other than a gun which adds time, and may result in the finding a better solution; i.e. help

Win win.

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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 01:31 PM

30. You're proposing an obscene solution

Win win.

Either you're making a fucked up joke, or you haven't thought it through, because you can't possibly be serious.

Further, although most gun deaths are indeed suicide, you haven't demonstrated that most gun suicides are committed by people facing terminal illness, i.e. the people for whom voluntary euthanasia is usually discussed as an option.

Since you've posted no data in support of your bizarre proposal, I submit that it's equally likely that your suggestion will result in a larger number of overall suicides, as people see your DIY OD plan as an agreeably painless alternative.



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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:49 PM

26. Excellent point nt

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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:53 PM

28. I'm for relatively easy Euthanasia (prescribed by doc). Would even cut down on gun purchases and

help families deal with terminal, or severe chronic, illnesses that affect quality of life.

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