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Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:31 AM

 

At this point there is zero reason anyone in Puerto Rico is without necessary nutrition.

It's simply inexcusable.

I have already received over one thousand dollars from the federal government for Irma relief. It's been in my account for days. During the immediate aftermath, neighbors were helping neighbors, school cafeterias were being used to distribute food, and thousands of workers came from out of state to help us out. The federal government has flooded so much money into the pockets of our people that our economy won't even see a downturn. In fact, when the numbers come in, we will show an economic uptick because of all of the funds.

We were not hit anywhere near as hard as PR. Not even close. What was needed was done, or being done. Our community flushed with money so our economy doesn't take a major hit. A lot of these funds will go to our extremely large service industry employees who were forced by their employers to take one to two weeks off. More often than not without pay.

Then there is PR. Money is a different story there though it has to be a part of it. They need more in-depth and logistical support. Hubs for food and water all over the place. In the rural areas where travel is even more difficult we should have been doing air drops on day two. Barges should already be lined up removing the enormous amount of debris on the island. Clear the roads and get the debris out. Military and private engineers should already have finished their assessment of the road structures on the island. The main airport should have been cleared quickly and military assets used in the communications aspect. Anyone with a place to stay off of the island should have already been removed. Get them out of there and the scope of the humanitarian crisis shrinks.

The list goes on and on. It requires a robust federal response. We are behind the ball and people will die because of it. People will suffer greatly because of it.

Fuck Trump. He is a terrorist and killer of American citizens. I truly mean both of those things. Even under conservative principles, the federal governments main job is to protect its citizens. He terrorizes POC, LBGQT, women, and now american citizens who have gone through the worst of a natural disaster. He calls white supremacists good people while labeling Mexicans criminals. There is absolutely no excuse for his actions. None. He is not only a failure as a President, he is a failure as a human being.

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Response to Weekend Warrior (Original post)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:37 AM

1. k and r. thanks for your perspective...yes, Trump sucks and is a "failure as a human being."

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Response to Weekend Warrior (Original post)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:46 AM

2. If they treated this like a military operation....

It would move a lot better. This is what we do well.. If there was a "insurgency" in the mountains of PR how much you want to bet that the logistics of getting food, water, men and material there in the shortest amount of time would be achieved...
Yes there are no direct roads to PR.. The military has been dealing with difficult situations to move "stuff" for many decades.. They know how to do it.. rant mode off..
m

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Response to mitch96 (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 02:57 PM

3. Compare to Berlin Airlift

Roughly the same population as PR. Supplied with WW-2 era air transport for almost a year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Blockade

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:00 PM

4. Berlin had power and a functional distribution system.

It was also a much smaller area. No real comparison.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:08 PM

7. They had to fly in coal and gasoline.

And much on the infrastructure was still destroyed from WW-2.

From vehicles to portable generators and construction equipment, we have much better equipment than what was available in 1948.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:14 PM

9. Distribution is the issue

getting supplies to the interior of PR is not comparable to Berlin. It is mountainous with a devastated road system.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:16 PM

10. Wasn't the PR airport destroyed? Airdops only work for specific things.

 

They weren't airdropping all that shit into Berlin. The were landing actual planes and supplies and at least had a functional distribution system. PR doesn't have shit right now.

Until the ports are cleared of debris (and hidden/sunken obstacles cleared, too), the BIG ships can't get in and out with supplies to rebuild PR's inland distribution and receiving capabilities. Without the ability to accept nonstop incoming/outgoing cargo planes the scale of air support we can use is fairly limited.

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Response to JoeStuckInOH (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 08:13 PM

15. It's open.

Further, the military transport aircraft are specifically designed to land on hastily constructed primitive airstrips. Helicopters can pretty much deliver to anyplace regardless of road conditions. The military also has air-deliverable equipment that is specifically designed to travel over rugged terrain and repair destroyed roads and bridges. There are very few pieces of equipment that cannot be airlifted with today's transports.

In 1948, using aircraft that had far less capability, they managed to deliver over 2.3 million tons of supplies and feed 3 million people for 11 months. They did not have things like roll-off containers, they did not have ports, or railroad and road access to the city. It was all done by air.

Yes, I get that some of the distances on the ground are longer and the roads are washed out. The infrastructure of Berlin was still in tatters from years of Allied bombing and the what was left had largely been obliterated by the Soviet battle for Berlin. Getting supplies from the airport to the city, especially in winter was also a major operation. They also had to deal with Northern European weather conditions and keep the population from freezing. The Soviets calculated that we could not possibly pull it off and that we would quickly give up.

Trumps says the problem is that Puerto Rico's problem is being in the "middle of an ocean". The ocean is not the problem.


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Response to mitch96 (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:02 PM

5. The flaw in your argument is that they would not be feeding the "insurgents"

people don't appreciate just how much fuel, food and water would be needed for the military. Adding tens of thousands of more mouths to feed might not be the smartest move right now.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:04 PM

6. The military takes their own food when the go somewhere. They wouldn't be hitting PR's gorcery

stores. Additionally, they get fed everyday they are in the military, no extra cost in feeding them in PR.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:12 PM

8. The planes needed to supply the military can't be used to carry relief aid for the population

trucks carrying military supplies can't carry relief aid. All food and water has to be brought in to PR.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:36 PM

11. they could make an exception in this case

Like they just made an exception on the Jones act.. As the mayor said.. people are dying here...
m

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Response to mitch96 (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:44 PM

13. It's not legal issue. It's a numbers issue

there are so many planes available. Do you want all of them carrying relief supplies or just some of them?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 08:28 PM

17. I think the term is called "air traffic control"

It's been done before during the Berlin Air Lift after WW2. Planes coming and going with a huge amount of supply. These guys just don't have their feces together... Hopefully the next disaster will be coordinated better than this one.
m

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Response to Weekend Warrior (Original post)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:41 PM

12. Let's do some basic math

 

The population of PR is a little over 3,400,000.

Let's say 2/3 of the population has no access to food at this point.

That is 2,265,000 more or less.

2 MRE's a day will meet basic nutrition needs.

That is 4,529,000 MREs needed a day IF you get absolutely perfect distribution. Absolute perfection with no waste or mistakes doesn't happen in ideal conditions, it's even worse in a disaster zone.

So to account for that add around 10% and make it an even 5,000,000 MREs needed a day.

That is 41,666 cases of MREs per day.

That is 868 pallets of MREs a day.

You can fit about 72 pallets on a C-17 based on my calculations.

That is 12 C-17 flights a day just to move food.

Then you need a distribution system across an entire island where the infrastructure is destroyed to distribute 41,666 cases a day. Tractor trailers probably can't navigate the streets so that would mean trucks like military 5 tons.

A 5 ton truck can hold 6 pallets of MREs and a 7th if you use manual labor to brake down the last one and stack it in the tensing space.

If each 5 ton can make 3 distribution trips a day- it will vary base on distance and loading and unloading time but that's a reasonable average given how hard some areas will be to reach- that is 41 trucks needed if things go perfect. Now look at the need for maintenance and breakdowns and you need 60 trucks.

You can get 2 5 ton trucks in a C-17, so that's 30 trips.

You also need the fuel trucks and distribution systems for them, spare parts, maintenance teams and their trucks. That's another 5-6 flights worth.

Then you need to clear the streets and make plans and establish routes.

The airport in San Juan has been open for 5 days.

How would you have put all that in place in 5 days?

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 04:54 PM

14. By not omitting numerous delivery methods.

 

By not ignoring the rest of what I posted.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 29, 2017, 08:18 PM

16. Berlin - August 1948

1,500 flights per DAY.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 06:57 AM

18. And that took several weeks to get up to speed

 

They didn't get that upannd running in 48 or 72 hours.

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