Hugh Hefner's death has clarified a few things for me.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. "Her body, her choice" actually means "It's her body when I approve of her choice. No one can tell her what to do with her body. Well, except me, anyway."

2. Despite his status as a preeminent exploiter of women, everyone was too busy to organize a boycott of any aspect of his sprawling business empire for over 50 years. Just never really got around to it, I guess.

3. His power over women was absolute and without equal, as somehow he forced thousands of them to bare themselves in his magazine, at his house, on his TV channel, in his clubs...honestly: how did this sex trafficker hide in plain sight?

4. He should have offered a bounty for dirt on Republicans, like Larry Flynt did. That sure secured his place in the DU Ring of Honor, didn't it?

[bettyellen]

1. You're wrong about #2 he was boycotted by feminists....

And number one and three seem like you totally don't get that how the exploitation of women works. You really think those women would have fucked him if their economic situation didn't push them to? LOL, he was a pig who had to pay for it. He just made it look better than other pigs for a while there.

[BigmanPigman]

2. I can think of a person (I do not consider her a woman since I respect women)

but I do not know her name. You probably saw her picture like many already have. She was photographed at a 45 rally/campaign event wearing a white t-shirt with "HE CAN GRAB MY..." written on it and underneath was a big arrow pointed downward toward her crotch. That is the kind of mentality that makes me a "selective misogynist". That is my own term but my sister and I use it when we describe how we feel about other women who hate women, like women who didn't vote for Hillary due to her gender.

Some Hefner-type women like that would do some demeaning things since they do not see it as demeaning I guess or perhaps, more simply, they just are moronic idiots to begin with.

[bettyellen]

5. People will get used to a lot of shit if that's what they grew up with-

And the poorer they are, the more frequently it takes the form of sexual exploitation. It's really backwards to treat women as if the only things they have to offer are sec and child bearing- but that's pretty much the libertarian and RW view of us women. It keeps women down.

[livetohike]

3. Yeah because there were just tons of women out there

whose lifelong dream was to wear a cotton tail and bunny ears and serve drinks to drunken men.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Don't ever change, DT.

1. It can hard to determine just how much a choice a women's choice is in the male hegemony.

2. Just goes to show just how popular women's bodies are as a commodity, I guess!

3. Prettttttty sure no one is saying this.

4. The world is a large and complicated place.

[Yavin4]

6. Women have posed nude for artists/photographers for thousands of years before Hefner

And they will continue to do so for thousands of years after him. Some people cannot accept the fact that a segment of the population has no problem being photographed in the nude.

[radius777]

9. Of course, humans are sexual creatures,

both women and men have posed nude since we were in the caves.. there are cave drawings of porn/sexual acts etc, that have existed in every culture since.

Porn and sex work is not inherently oppressive, but rather a society which demonizes women (and men) for partaking in such things.

[GReedDiamond]

16. Yeah, I went to art school, and took "life drawing"...

...which was nude models posing so we could learn how to draw the human body.

And it was both female and male models.

It's not easy to hold a pose like that for an hour long class, it's a tough job.

It is also an honorable job, no shame/sexploitation involved.

[tymorial]

7. The virtue signaling has been rather extreme today

Not to mention the sheer hypocrisy of many posts.

[bettyellen]

15. "Virtue signaling" is a phrase for Red Pillers and MGOTOWs or whatever those sad fucks call

themselves.... you know, the ones who can't cope with flesh and blood women.

[kcr]

19. So have the RW memes n/t

[Retrograde]

8. "The evil that men do lives on

the good is oft interred with their bones".

I -a woman - actually bought a copy of Playboy once - the one with the Jimmy Carter interview. And I'd occasionally read friends' copies, since in the 70s Playboy published some interesting SF. Did Playboy exploit women? Probably a lot less than many institutions of the 60s.

What I've seen on DU recently is a tendency to judge people and things in binary terms: one is either a saint (and these are rare) or an entirely horrible entity because you don't live up to all current liberal norms. Real life, though, is painted in shades of gray: it's entirely possible to be a villain in many respects and still have some virtues, and vice versa. And that is all I have to say.

[prayin4rain]

11. Nice post. nt

[Adrahil]

13. People are complicated...

And one can be progressive on some issues and regressive on others. Heffner DID advocate for many progressive issues... particularly social issues. It's also true that he perpetuated a culture that presented young women as playthings for men.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

18. The last sentence is probably his shortcoming

Or is it?

Could it be that men's' attraction to younger women has to do with the fact that they're of breeding age?

Not defending such per se as I've known many an attractive older woman but I think such attitudes might have a biological component.

[kcr]

20. Oh, phew! That's so much better.

Are men just interested in the quality of their breeding stock? Is that all? Well, that's totally not objectifying

And yes, I am familiar with the evopsych pseudoscience behind such a gross POV, so don't bother explaining.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

22. Of course not

If you believe otherwise I feel sad for you.

The truth is most men outgrow once they've fathered a child and develop some empathy. My point was people, including women, have desires.

[BannonsLiver]

14. +1000

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

17. At least give credit to where that quote is from

William Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.

[BannonsLiver]

10. His critics would likely say the same things about Flynt, foolish and uninformed as that might be.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. Holy shit! People on an anonymous board with a variety of opinion??! CALL CONGRESS RIGHT

FUCKING NOW!!!!

[kcr]

21. Re number 3? Ask Bill Cosby. Seemed like a good hideout for him for years. n/t