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Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:27 AM

Considered Bumper Sticker - "Save The Planet - Get Fixed". But Realized ---------

I would get run over by a truck, get shot at, get the finger continuously, have my car keyed, et al. The problem is that the planet is grossly over populated with 7 billion plus and counting. And we hear that there will be 9 billion plus by maybe 2050.

All the turmoil and people desperately migrating to hopefully a better place is a good sign that something is amiss. Yet the religions of the world preach that God will provide. Well he is not providing now as we can see. And the planet's environment is degrading by the day.

Excess population is one cause of climate change. And we see the wrath of Mother Nature revealing itself. And we see other problems cropping up like widespread pollution, loss of biodiverse habitat the we depend on et al. Unless we get sustainable growth I do not see how the earth stays viable in a decent way moving forward.

And it is not about being antifamily. It is about common sense that one should not have all the children they can possibly have. The idea of a full quiver being a good idea seems absurd under the circumstances.

It is a tremendous thing to create new life. Yet being able to provide for that life in a adequate way is really important. Look at all the children who have been abandoned on this planet at this point.

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply Considered Bumper Sticker - "Save The Planet - Get Fixed". But Realized --------- (Original post)
TheMastersNemesis Sep 24 OP
Kath2 Sep 24 #1
Comatose Sphagetti Sep 24 #2
TheMastersNemesis Sep 24 #10
localroger Sep 24 #11
Best_man23 Sep 24 #17
csziggy Sep 24 #19
roamer65 Sep 24 #3
raven mad Sep 24 #7
TexasBushwhacker Sep 24 #30
GeoWilliam750 Sep 24 #4
Duppers Sep 24 #5
raven mad Sep 24 #6
Duppers Sep 24 #14
sharedvalues Sep 24 #8
hunter Sep 24 #21
sharedvalues Sep 24 #23
hunter Sep 24 #26
sharedvalues Sep 24 #9
Duppers Sep 24 #18
sharedvalues Sep 24 #20
Duppers Sep 24 #29
sharedvalues Sep 24 #33
TexasBushwhacker Sep 24 #31
sharedvalues Sep 24 #32
roamer65 Sep 24 #35
HAB911 Sep 24 #12
Duppers Sep 24 #13
TheMastersNemesis Sep 24 #15
sharedvalues Sep 24 #24
Aristus Sep 24 #16
sharedvalues Sep 24 #22
dalton99a Sep 24 #25
Orrex Sep 24 #27
nolabels Sep 24 #28
roamer65 Sep 24 #34

Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:37 AM

1. Right on.

Had the "Pro-child, pro-family, pro-choice" sticker on on a car for a while and the car got keyed, I got the finger and I got yelled at in parking lots.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:45 AM

2. Never had kids.

I'm OK with it... I guess you don't miss what you never had.
I'm not anti-family either but deep inside I'm glad I never added another consumer to the mix.

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Response to Comatose Sphagetti (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 09:18 AM

10. Neither Did I. My Motto - "No Kids, No Debt, No Regret". Feel Tbe Sme Way.

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Response to Comatose Sphagetti (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 09:29 AM

11. Yep

As I like to tell people, I seem to have made it to the age of 53 and totally forgot to reproduce.

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Response to Comatose Sphagetti (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:35 AM

17. I like the acronym THINKER

Two
Healthy
Incomes
No
Kids
Early
Retirement

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Response to Comatose Sphagetti (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:15 PM

19. Never wanted kids here

Watched my aunt pump out children as often as her uterus would allow it. She had six children that survived, maybe three or four miscarriages. She was not a woman who had pleasant pregnancies and was miserable pretty much my entire childhood and teenage years, carrying one fetus after another.

After watching that poor woman suffer so much, I decided I never wanted children.

My model for life was my great aunt who never married and had a professional career as a college professor. She enjoyed life, traveled all over, had lots of hobbies, and was always happy - unlike the aunt who was always sick, miserable, and who tried to make everyone around her as unhappy as she was.

Unlike my great aunt I did marry but we made the choice to not have children. I love my family and most of my nieces and nephews - and now my great nephews - but a few minutes a year of being around children is more than enough for me.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 03:03 AM

3. Overpopulation IS the cause of climate change.

If we had only 1-2 billion people on this planet, it would be nowhere near as bad, now or into the future. We would also have a good shot at lowering CO2 levels by natural means, such as increased biomass production.

It's the hard truth that very few want to face. So, the $64k question is how do we reduce population by 6 billion without world war or mass genocide?

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 06:57 AM

7. Please don't let them come up here.

We don't have many people. Thank you, world.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:58 PM

30. A pandemic of some kind might make a dent

With all the drug resistant bacteria, it's certainly a possibility.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 03:41 AM

4. The good news is that the total number of births per year

has probably already peaked at about 130 million

The difficulty is that they are living longer

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 05:32 AM

5. Last week had someone tell me...

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:31 AM - Edit history (3)

"US needs more kids, not fewer...we'd be much better off reducing cars and roads than reducing people. The US faces a low growth rate. We face economic decline if we cut...fertility."

I stopped even trying with her. Don't confuse them with facts. Facts are real whether or not people believe them.


Every child born has a MASSIVE CARBON FOOTPRINT, despite all reasonable measures to conserve.





We need these many cattle? Sadly, yes, to feed the growing population. Most people are not vegetarian, nor do they exclude red meat.









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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 06:56 AM

6. Well.................

My Jeep got wrecked by a Saturn. For my bumper sticker. And I had that one on it. In 2004.

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Response to raven mad (Reply #6)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:28 AM

14. Dang!!

Seriously? Wow! Did you sue?

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 07:50 AM

8. No, no. No no no. Have kids.

The US fertility rate is declining.

We need more kids.

(If you live in China or India, different story)

If you're worried about impact of your kids on the planet, advocate for fewer cars and more public transit. And raise your kids to advocate for the same.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:48 PM

21. There are plenty of refugees in the world. There's no need to make more people here in the U.S.A..

Affluent born-in-the-U.S.A. people tend to have very large environmental footprints anyways. Why encourage that kind of human reproduction? When birth rates among affluent people are down that's a good thing.

If the children of immigrants have good schools and social resources they'll grow up to be excellent citizens.

National boundaries are meaningless in any discussion of global environmental issues, most especially greenhouse gasses or population. The greenhouse gasses any individual adds to the atmosphere by their consumer lifestyle end up everywhere.

My parents and my wife's parents had a mess of kids partly because it was celebrated by their religions. I think my parents became converts to birth control once they realized they might have to buy a school bus as the family car. This was in the days before seat belt laws and car seats for children... When we were small my grandma could stuff us all in her Cadillac and drive us around town to show us off.

The "have a mess of kids" religious beliefs ended with my parents and my wife's parents. They became strong advocates of sex education and birth control. None among our siblings decided to have many children. A few of our siblings have no biological children. In our generation we averaged considerably less than replacement population.

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Response to hunter (Reply #21)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:57 PM

23. You're making my case

In our generation we averaged considerably less than replacement population.


This is the problem Japan experienced starting decades earlier than us. (We also have more immigration which puts us in better shape than Europe and esp Japan which accepts very few immigrants.)

Also - you're here on DU. You just said you have some but few offspring. So that means few progressive kids. The religious families are still having big families. A USA filled with religious crazies and few progressivea will do far worse damage to the world than if you add a lot of smart active progressives to the mix.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:12 PM

26. Japan would be fine if they weren't so damned xenophobic.

They ought to be welcoming foreign workers.

I've lived near my entire adult life in communities where white guys like me are not the majority.

I grew up in a 99% affluent white U.S.A. community and I wouldn't go back for anything. God, even their Sierra Club members were clueless, stomping all over the earth as if they owned it.

Seriously, I don't see any reason to promote that culture, "progressive" or not.



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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 07:56 AM

9. Paul Krugman: the US needs more kids


Krugman Sees Japan’s Shrinking Population as Crimping Growth

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-02-05/krugman-sees-japan-s-shrinking-population-as-crimping-growth

The US has a smaller problem with fertility than almost any Western developed nation. That's due to big right-wing families and immigration. Immigration is slowing down.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:51 AM

18. Sure Krugman understands climate science

And environmental issues.

This quote by Alanis Obomsawin applies:

When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you can’t eat money.



From the UK Independent

Having children is one of the most destructive things you can to do the environment, say researchers

12 July 2017

"Having children is the most destructive thing a person can to do to the environment, according to a new study.

Researchers from Lund University in Sweden found having one fewer child per family can save “an average of 58.6 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year”.

Eating meat, driving a car and travelling by aeroplane made up the list of the most polluting things people can do to the planet.

But having children was top, according to the new study, published in the journal Environmental Research Letters.

'A US family who chooses to have one fewer child would provide the same level of emissions reductions as 684 teenagers who choose to adopt comprehensive recycling for the rest of their lives,' it said."

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/children-carbon-footprint-climate-change-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html


Of course, what do scientists know? Let's just believe economists, much like Republicans do. And they love quoting the bible, "Be fruitful, go forth and multiply."


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Response to Duppers (Reply #18)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:47 PM

20. I am a climate scientist.

Those studies are largely descriptive and they do not take any negative feedback into account ( which is the principal problem with Ehrlich's book and also the concept of Peak Oil.)

I'm not saying population growth isn't a concern. It is, especially in the developing world. But there are bigger things Americans can do to help the environment. I.e. : reduce gasoline use.

Americans need to have more kids.

Especially progressive kids.
If all the progressives stop having kids, the christofascist GOP voters will take over the country and destroy the environment to a much larger degree than if we have progressive kids to set us on the correct course. So yeah. Go forth and be fertile.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #20)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:34 PM

29. Good point about the GOP's growth.

Still not at all convinced that Americans will curb their wasteful lifestyles in time to make ANY difference. We've fought wars, spent our blood and treasure to control oil supplies and Americans approved. And most still do not believe in anthropogenic CC according to Pew. I see this as a most urgent issue but most Americans disagree.




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Response to Duppers (Reply #29)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:09 PM

33. Transportation / gasoline is huge

27% of US emissions in 2015: https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

If there is only one thing you could do to influence climate change caused by the US, it should be lobbying for a gas tax.

In the 70s, Europe chose to reduce oil consumption with a robust tax on gas. The US chose to do it with fuel economy standards. The standards were worked around by auto companies selling SUVs.

If we had today a $4/gallon tax on gas, we'd have fewer roads, denser development, and much lower carbon emissions.

The gas tax is a political lightning rod, but increasing it would help our planet. It's hard for me to say which of many effects would be biggest, but if you and your kids could help get a gas tax put in place, you'd be doing the world a great service.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #20)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:03 PM

31. Do we really need more kids if there will be fewer jobs?

Losing jobs to automation and technology isn't going to slow down.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #31)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:05 PM

32. Yes. Talent economy. Someone will need to program the tech.

From the Economist:

https://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21714169-technological-change-demands-stronger-and-more-continuous-connections-between-education

"Lifelong learning is becoming an economic imperative

Technological change demands stronger and more continuous connections between education and employment, says Andrew Palmer. The faint outlines of such a system are now emerging"

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #31)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:20 PM

35. Nope, we don't need them.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 09:56 AM

12. The Church for you!

and some others of us:

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:25 AM

13. Ah, see the reception here.

We're dead anyway.


"When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you can’t eat money."


- Alanis Obomsawin, Canadian filmmaker of Abenaki descent



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Response to Duppers (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:31 AM

15. I Do Not Believe We Are Necessarily Dead Yet.

Nature will endure in the end in some way. It is just that human success will lead to its demise. Nature has a way of taking care of things. Our mass extinction is NOT impossible. In the past there is scientific evidence that the human race was nearly wiped out by a huge natural catastrophe and world cataclysm pushing us to the southern tip of South Africa.

The problem is that the rest of the world is beginning to recognize what is going on. Here we seem to be clueless.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Reply #15)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:59 PM

24. Lots of other dangers, like nukes

We haven't seen a worldwide war in decades. I'd rank war and nukes and attacks on power grids and climate change as more existential problems then adding more kids to the USA or other western nations.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:31 AM

16. We're getting better, although this example is simply anecdotal.

My maternal grandparents came from large Alabama farm-families. My grandfather was the second-youngest of fifteen. My grandmother was the youngest of ten.

They had my mother and my uncle and that's it.

My parents had three kids. My brother and I have no kids of our own with our spouses, and my sister has two daughters. That's the long and the short of it.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #16)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:49 PM

22. That's the reason we face economic hardship

Same as Japan - families have fewer and fewer kids and the economy gets top heavy with older people.

Europe faces a demographic disaster for the same reasons. So does Israel.

It's a smaller problem for the US because of our historically high immigration levels. I'm not sure we can count on this anymore.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #22)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:10 PM

25. As Japan's population shrinks, bears and boars roam where schools and shrines once thrived (LAT)

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-japan-population-snap-story.html
As Japan's population shrinks, bears and boars roam where schools and shrines once thrived
By Julie Makinen

The red-roofed temple at the top of the hill closed about a decade ago, and now Yoshihiro Shibata can’t even remember its name, though the 54-year-old dairy farmer has lived in this picturesque village all his life.

“The income of the temple depends on the number of residents, and there weren’t enough to keep a monk here,” he said, looking around the deserted grounds nestled amid the village’s lush landscape of tea plants and hydrangeas, bamboo and pine trees.

A few years after the temple shut its doors, the village tea-processing factory closed down and the elementary school too. Now, the remaining students are bused an hour away.

“When I was young, we had about 100 kids here, but now there are just five,” Shibata said.


Yoshihiro Shibata stands in front of the tea-processing factory that was closed in his village several years ago.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #25)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:13 PM

27. Bears and boars buy beers at bars and board barges bound for Borneo

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:31 PM

28. When and if we get old we then hope we will all be able to care for ourselves

The question is when do we become a minus for society that has to fend for us with the extending of life spans. It's getting to be a smaller and smaller planet everyday. I hope have a job and work as long as possible. Never dreamed I would get to fifty-eight, thought we have some mad man like Trump sooner who would of already have pushed the button.

I am an optimist and think when we, the peoples of world, get more organized then things will get better. The stupid idea someone would press the button is declined a lot.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:15 PM

34. Here's the biggest reason why the US birth rate is declining.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/09/pf/cost-of-raising-a-child-2015/index.html

Avg cost was $233,610 to raise a child in the US in 2015. That's not counting college costs.

So raising 3 kids will now cost you about $750k, in 2015 dollars. So costs are up, while wages remain fairly stagnant.

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