Is it just me, or is everyone else pissed off about this Manafort investigation?

[louis c]

On October 28, 2016, the FBI director, James Comey felt an obligation to inform the voting public that he reopened the Hilary Clinton investigation because Anthony Weiner's lap top could have incriminating evidence on it. The fact that it was bull shit and nothing came of it and Hilary was cleared did not change the fact that her momentum had been broken and the bogus call fed right into the anti-Clinton narrative. There is no doubt in Hilary's mind, or mine, that cost her the election. Sure, there were other factors, but without that letter to Congress, she would have won. The other factors made it close, but that letter made the difference.

Now, we find out that Manafort was not only under investigation for what I call Treason, but that the FISA court issued warrants to put the bastard under surveillance. That there was a case, far more believable and sinister than anything Hilary was suspected of.

I know if that was revealed during the election, I personally could have changed dozens of minds. Maybe not switched Trump to Hilary, but influenced Trump voters to abandon him and sideliners to vote for Hilary.

Remember that last week? We were all on the defensive. Remember what Trump said, "that we shouldn't elect a President that will be under investigation on day one"? As it turns out, that should have been our line.

As a result, I am more pissed off today than at any time since November 8, 2016.

These assholes chanted "Lock Her Up"? every fucking one of them should be locked up for Treason ( I know, it's not technically Treason, but it certainly will end up to be conspiring with a hostile foreign country to undermine our Democracy).

Boy, am I pissed.

[leftynyc]

1. I'm pissed too

My sister (also a big Hillary fan) and I were chatting about the latest news last night (manafort) and both said it pissed us off all over again. She was robbed.

[spanone]

2. K&R...

[MoonRiver]

3. Comey's goal was to destroy Hillary Clinton's bid for the presidency.

He accomplished that. Now that rat faces the consequences of his vile, undemocratic behavior.

[louis c]

4. That's why he said, under oath, that when he thinks about what he did

it makes him nauseous.

It should.

[MoonRiver]

18. Guilty conscience

[Hortensis]

38. Not hardly. He's corrupt, but no fool. You have to be a good politician,

and a very well connected one, to get to that position. This was just "lordy"-type spin for those who'll swallow it.

His argument that he was required to do what he did is completely bogus, refuted by many of his shocked peers around the nation. He did this and more deliberately, knowing that the timing might well help throw the election to the Republicans. By his own statements, he also knew ahead of time that the investigation he continued through the summer, right up to the nomination, would not turn up anything.

A big question is, was he acting alone or was he colluding with others on the right?

[calimary]

28. Indeed.

At least he may - MAY - realize what HE contributed to the mess we're all in now. And he's stuck in the same quicksand he helped create for the rest of us. At least he recognizes that. The Deplorables are stuck in it, too. But unlike Comey, they're too stupid and brainwashed to realize it.

[whathehell]

31. He claims that he thought she would win,

so he didn't want any recriminations (from the RepukesI I guess)...Still doesn't excuse it.

[Zambero]

43. Comey's internal mind games

Whatever advance scenario happened inside Comey's head pre-election and outside of it are (of course) two very different outcomes. Ironic that the former enabled the latter, aided and abetted by an uninformed electorate that was deliberately kept in the dark by this guy.

[whathehell]

67. It's all driving me insane..

Him, Trump, Everything...I haven't had ONE good night's sleep since the insanity started last November.

[haele]

79. Comey hated the Clintons since he couldn't get anywhere with Whitewater.

He should have been blocked from being involved with any investigation of Clinton for conflict of interest way before 2016, but the DoJ at the time was too "nice" with the Republicans and concerned about the way it would have looked had they pulled him from the investigation.

A massive f-up allowing him to be put on the "investigation" from the beginning. And the Republicans knew it.

Haele

[whathehell]

85. I associated Ken Start with Whitewater..

I didn't know Comey was on that team.

[Nevernose]

86. Also prosecuted Martha Stewart

In what many considered to be a politically motivated prosecution (she raised a lot of money for Democrats).

He also tried to prosecute the Clintons a SECOND time, for the Marc Rich pardon.

Comey is a hardcore Republican loyalist who was too self-absorbed to realize how incompetent Trump was and assumed "the system" would correct itself instead of appointing Pepe the Frog as ambassador and hiring Steve Bannon as Special Smart Guy in Charge of Thinking.

[ThirdEye]

26. It probably wasn't

A reasonable person would speculate that Comey was so sure Hillary would win, he was comfortable coming out with his statement to show that the FBI continued to take their investigation seriously. If he had not, the right would scream collusion.

The idea he wanted to destroy her candidacy and specifically see Trump elected? That's laughable.

Don't get me wrong, it was a stupid move. A terrible risk. Now he gets to live with it.

[Volaris]

33. And all things being equal, that reasonable person would have been right.

All things were NOT equal. The Russian propaganda efforts worked ENOUGH, in specific States and districts, to give Trump an electoral college win. We think our domestic politics are immune to the kinds of shit that happens in the rest of the world. As long as we believe that, and keep acting that way, it WONT be true.
America is only EXCEPTIONAL, when we stop believing that we are, and instead start acting to achieve that goal, in a way that other nations cannot or will not.
The Truth of who we are, is rather a political paradox. Always has been, and always will be. And for the people who voted for Trump, that's entirely too much Thinking for their comfort.

[ThirdEye]

35. I do believe...

... that I agree with you. Feels like Comey should have been aware of the influence Russia was having and that it wasn't worth the risk.

[Volaris]

73. Comey (maybe rightly)

Feared the Republican accusation of partisanship MORE than he feared a Trump presidency OR a Clinton loss...because (I think) he believed the polls and that Hillary was going to win walking away, no matter what he or Russia did or didn't do. Comey might personally be a Republican, but I don't think he's a batshit crazy, tear down the Establishment type.

[annabanana]

74. My take as well. . . n/t

[Juliusseizure]

41. Disagree

Comey blatantly violated policy by announcing the restart of the email investigation. When I say blatant, I mean blatant. Go back and read the Democrats protest letter and Clinton's comments.

He didn't publicly announce the Trump campaign was under investigation until six months into Trump's presidency, and only after being forced to under public testimony.

A reasonable person would think if a non-partisan FBI head is exposing the investigation of one candidate, he would expose the other's, especially when the others investigation concerns election interference by a foreign country.

He also lied that there were thousands of emails. That was vastly exaggerated.

But what makes this an obvious attempt to influence the election is the timing. This was a republican hit job. The FBI is hardly immune from political pressure and political bias.

Comey may have done more to influence the election than the Russians.

[MoonRiver]

51. "Comey may have done more to influence the election than the Russians."

I think so.

[delisen]

55. He was focused on himself, wanted to avoid

attacks on his character from the rights. His reasons were personal and political,
but centered on himself, his career, and his image in both the FBI and Washington.

[ThirdEye]

56. I'm willing to believe

that he was trying to protect his legacy. So perhaps it was personal, but I can't believe it was political. (personally - it's all speculation)

[MoonRiver]

50. So exactly why do you think he pulled that stunt?

[ThirdEye]

62. To address a predictable future issue with a Madame President

Namely, the far-right would be spinning conspiracies that Comey had protected Hillary to get her elected.

[MoonRiver]

63. That's ludicrous. He was simply doing his job as a prosecutor.

If he thought differently, he's part of the far-right.

[ThirdEye]

64. Wah?

Sorry, but "Comey's goal was to destroy Hillary Clinton's bid for the presidency" is what's ludicrous.

[MoonRiver]

65. I disagree.

[Cosmocat]

52. IMO - it isn't either

I don't see any logic in this "he thinks she would win anyways" stuff.

I have repeatedly point out, he cut his teeth as a special prosecutor for the whitewater witch hunts.

As much as he may have an actual soul for a republican, he clearly has a disdain for the Clintons.

THAT was what led him to do what he did in June and October.

[MrsCoffee]

69. This was the THIRD time he was involved with investigating the Clintons.

Another lifelong Republican with a hard on for going after the Clintons.

It's hardly laughable to say that he wanted to destroy her candidacy. Because he FUCKING DID IT.

[tblue37]

27. Like most people, Comey absolutely assumed she would win, so I believe he did what he did

to undermine her when she became president, to weaken her so she would have more trouble getting her policies through. He is a Republican, so he probably wanted to prevent a Dem president from having any success. It never occurred to him that Trump could actually be elected.

There is also the possibility that he was pressured by the Giuliani BFFs in the FBI office in New York, so he went public before they could leak.

[Texin]

40. I think this absolutely correct.

Add to that, frank admissions from Russian officials about this, that their goal was not so much to aid shitstain's election chances (because they flat out didn't believe he would win), but to destabilize HRC's presidency by making Trumpolini's constituents feel "they was robbed" and causing an immediate hardening of rethug legislators to cooperate in a bi-partisan manner.

[MadLinguist]

61. The Ghouliani angle needs far more scrutiny than its gotten!

The NY FBI crew were really gunning for Hilary. That is known. But man oh man, do I want to know the nitty gritty dirty little tales that explain exactly how that intra-agency feud played out. I am all but certain that the New York G-men forced Comey's hand in some complicated sordid way. It will not come out thru the Mueller investigation. That's just not how the dominoes are lined up. We need a New York Post style tell-all.

[annabanana]

76. Apparently one of the NY FBI guys was working at a high

level and was recently busted to HR. Something probably showed up in NY

(covered by Rachel.. Wish I had a better memory for names.)

[MadLinguist]

81. Peter Strzok. Yeah I remember that Maddow broadcast in early August

I hadn't put it together, but he was on the Hilary email case and was in the NY FBI office.
Given all the fallout from Comey's October surprise press conference, I wouldn't be surprised if Comey let someone know just who it was that was pushing the Weiner leak threat -- and if it was Peter Strzok, then maybe they gave him HR duty as a consolation for not firing him before retirement for violating the Hatch Act.

For a completely alternative view of this unusual swerve in a career path, I do wonder about that position though. There are things about an institution that only HR knows. So maybe he is acting as an agency mole.

There are sub-plots and counter-narratives within this whole Russian intervention episode that will take a long time to come out. Some maybe never..

[stopwastingmymoney]

75. This whole exchange is excellent

Bring on that tell all, I wonder who will write it?

[AngryAmish]

45. I bet Come was in league with the Russians.

He was "fired" by Trump as a smokescreen.

They are both paid by the Russians.

[ThirdEye]

66. Where's the evidence?

this is speculation at its most extreme. Is _everyone_ on Russia's payroll?

Regardless of what you may think of Comey's personal politics, it's pretty clear his reputation as a stalwart upholder of the law is what likely matters most to him.

[maxsolomon]

72. I suspect he got backed into a corner

by
1. internal FBI politics coming out of the NYC office through Giuliani
2. promises previously made to Chaffetz on the Benghazi & Email investigations.

I could be wrong. Comey hasn't said; he probably can't.

[certainot]

87. all the players in this felt and were anticipating freak out outrage

from the right if they were seen to be siding with hillary

they were intimidated by the coordinated outrage of 300 shit-for brains liars on 1500 radio stations because the left/liberals/thinking americans continue the stupidest biggest political mistake in history, which continues today, ignoring talk radio, which was infiltrated by putin years before trump ran

[MoonRiver]

91. Well, if our FBI can be intimidated by political extremists,

it is worthless as a law enforcement agency.

[certainot]

92. intimidated and affected.... you don't think all those cops out there aren't affected by

the talk radio blowhards making excuses for the cops who kill unarmed african americans, or get the message when limbaugh and sons attack protestors and encourage them to beat them, or run them down?

[Madam45for2923]

5. IMO Comey did not want for Donald to become President. He is disgusted by Donald.

I think he made mistakes that cost us but I believe he believes his rationalizations for doing so:

HRC: Finished FBI investigation

DT: Ongoing & thus secret FBI investigation.

For him these two distinctions mattered.

[louis c]

6. Then why the Oct. 28 letter?

That didn't close the investigation, it reopened it.

[Madam45for2923]

9. Because there was a change in status which he had already announced was closed.

That's the reason he refused to tell Donald that he was NOT being investigated because he felt then he would need to report when that changed and thus lose the secrecy.

[louis c]

13. I think he will admit that he made a mistake

He should have said nothing about either of them, or spoke up about both.

That "technical" difference doesn't mean shit compared to what was at stake.

As it turns out, Hilary is in the clear and Trump will be exposed as a traitor. Good fucking call, Director.

[Madam45for2923]

14. He fucked up fer sure. My point is that he was not acting in cahoots with Donald.

I think he sees Donald as scum and wants him for prison.

[world wide wally]

17. Not only did he fuck up, he broke the law doing it

Yes, there is supposedly a law that the FBI cannot do or say anything to influence and election during the last 30 days.

[Madam45for2923]

19. yep, maybe not a law but a rule.

[Mr. Ected]

8. I might add

HRC: No justiciable case; pure political witch hunt

DT: Corroborated evidence, even audio/video(?) evidence already known to the FBI at the time of the election

Based on what we know right now, Comey shouldn't have dropped his dud of a bomb on Hillary when he did. But then again, we don't know the whole story yet. His motivations may clarify with time.

[Madam45for2923]

10. I know but he was tasked with investigating.

I agree that he should have not dropped the bomb on us.

My defense of Comey does not extend to all his actions.

My main point is that he was not a Donald lackey and was not in cahoots with him.

[Mr. Ected]

22. I have the same view of Comey

A flawed man, indeed, but not a partisan hack. One day, hopefully, we'll better understand his motives.

[Lonestarblue]

30. Don't forget Comey's history.

He may not like Trump, but I suspect that he did not want Clinton to win and took steps to ensure that result. Comey was a registered Republican for many years, he was part of the Whitewater investigation (and reportedly frustrated that nothing was found to prosecute), and he was part of the investigation into President Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich--the man whose prosecution Comey himself had overseen. Comey deserves more than nausea, he deserves prosecution for deliberately interfering with an election.

[lunasun]

34. +1 yes there is history thank you

[Sunlei]

7. I was pissed off the first day Republicans dropped him into their presidents campaign, surprise!

Who the fuck is that man? and why is he involved/allowed to change Republican Partycampaign shit? & helping (R)ussia invade another country?

[Lars39]

11. That the Russian infiltration is so deep

makes me wonder if Comey wasn't playing an undercover-type role in order for them to get the evidence on them from top to bottom.
Just a theory I've had for a while.

[AngryAmish]

47. Comey has been a paid Russian agent his entire career.

[Lars39]

49. I haven't seen that claim or proof of claim...care to oblige?

I'm always willing to learn.

[Ligyron]

70. What? Didn't you watch that documentary series "The Americans"?

[Arkansas Granny]

12. I'm pissed, too. I've been pissed since I woke up 11/9/16 and realized that Trump had won.

I felt like I'd been gut punched. Still get that feeling from time to time if I think about it too much.

[Scarsdale]

20. Me too.

I went to bed, confident that Hillary would be our next president. SHOCKED when orange ass was declared the winner. Something is wrong with the whole fiasco. Now, we are all paying the price for Russia's meddling. Just as Vlad wanted it, he is destroying the USA.

[yardwork]

15. The FBI hid the investigation of Trump and his cronies.

The FBI did this while they put Hillary Clinton out to dry over nothing, which they knew was nothing.

Comey did this. I think Comey did it because (a) he doesn't like strong women and so he was biased against Hillary's candidacy and (2) he thought that Trump would lose anyway. When Hillary won, as Comey expected, he wanted to tell the Republicans controlling Congress that he had been "fair." The Republicans were going to go after Hillary and Comey wanted to impress the bullies.

He miscalculated and cost Hillary the election, all while he knew that Trump was under investigation.

Comey is an unethical, cowardly weasel.

[Roy Rolling]

16. Totally pissed

But I will trade my anger for indictments from Bob Mueller. Hearing Trump under surveillance conspiring with Manafort, Sessions, McConnell and the rest will assuage my anger.

But it doesn't make the theft of the presidency from Hillary Clinton any more palatable.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

21. It does look suspect.

[brush]

23. Not just Manafort, there was also an investigation of trump that Comey also kept secret

We should all be doubly pissed, especially at the people on this site and online and on news show who keep on with the "Hillary ran a horrible campaign" or she was a "flawed candidate" crappola.

She got torpedoed by the fu_king Director of the FBI violating the Hatch Act twelve days before the election, something unprecedented in history.

He swung the election to the repug candidate.

He acted like the partisan hack he was then tried to clean it up for months with his investigation of trump after he realize what a debacle he made possible — the trump administration.

His redemption was getting fired by the head of the debacle.

HAH!

[ffr]

24. This . Comey violated the Hatch Act and history will not treat him kindly for doing so.

His act was unprecedented, just as you say. And it swung the election to these traitors up and down the ballot.

[bigbrother05]

57. Think the down ballot impact was his intent

In the days leading up to Comey announcing reopening the email investigation, HRC was trending stronger daily and there was talk of the Dems taking the Senate and a chance for the House as well. Comey likely thought the Presidential race was over, but keeping the Dems from having Congress would rein in Clinton.

Also, it's likely that Comey assumed that a Dem as experienced as HRC would not take revenge on him with after he "cleared" her. He would have also been on good terms with Congressional GOP because he had kept them in charge.

As noted, Comey is nothing if not a political pro. He was playing both ends against the middle and our country is now paying the price.

[tiptonic]

25. Comrade

Can we say 'Comrade Benedict donald'? Or can we say 'five deferments donald'?

[lancelyons]

29. I agree but what can be done?

It was a brilliant move by the republicans to first deny Obama the supreme court pick and then have one of their own (Comey) help out with the election when it looked like the Senate might be lost.

Democrats are to trusting and wont fire back...

I just hope we can win back the house in 2018 but republicans have that rigged as well.

[VaBchTgerLily]

32. me too!

[samnsara]

36. i wasnt but NOW I am! dammit! HILLARY WON!!!

[Enoki33]

37. It's easy to say Comey did not want Hillary to win. But that also

makes little sense as the alternative would have had to be trump, someone he reportedly despised. His double standard has been exposed, yet what really motivated him remains obscure. That does not make the anger any less, especially since there has been no accountability. I hope Hillary eventually challenges the overall legitimacy of the apparent criminal enterprise that's trying to rule.

[louis c]

39. I never said that Comey did not want Hilary to win

I think he was trying to paint himself in a positive light and expected Hilary to trounce Trump.

As another reply pointed out, he wanted to look like he was being fair and have answers for the Republican controlled Congress.

When he thinks about what he actually did, he becomes nauseous. He gets that way because he made some bad calls and they were all self serving.

He's trying to make up for that now, but it's really too late, even if Trump is thrown out. After all, the Supreme Court damage will be with us for a generation, even if Trump left today.

[Enoki33]

68. Never meant to say you did. My mistake for not making clear

it was a few other opinions. Agree with what you said.

[turbinetree]

42. It's TREASON

when taken in the total context, it's TREASON

And there are over 65 million that think the same way.......LOCK THEM UP................TRUMP(s), Flynn, Manafort, Pence, Sessions, Page, McConnell, Rochbacher, McCarthy, Ryan, Nunes, the entire republican congress

[louis c]

59. I agree

[CK_John]

44. IMO, Manafort could endup facing murder charges if they can tie together his

war crimes while in the Ukraine annexation of eastern location.

[Amimnoch]

46. There's so many instances of hypocrisy

Surrounding this last election that I've completely lost count on them.

More so, the number of these hypocrisies keep on growing. For example today's is the ACA. Demanded a 60 vote filibuster proof vote to pass (which is what killed the government option of the house bill), but now only requires 50 to kill it.

[BadgerMom]

48. Yes. I yelled at my television (again) last night.

My words were, I believe, "And they couldn't do anything BEFORE the election?!" The word "they" certainly included Comey and the FBI. I wish Obama, whom I revere and miss so very much, would have taken sterner action, ignoring the traitor McConnell. As a party, we need to develop strategies to counteract Republican lies and distortions so we back away from their threats less often.

[stuffmatters]

82. Unbelieveably infuriating that Obama caved to McConnnell's menacing & suppressed the truth in 8/16

As much as I love Obama, this was an historic mistake that not only aided and abetted the Republicans but also a foreign enemy usurping our democracy.

[Initech]

53. What I'm pissed about is the real criminals will never get justice.

It's looking more and more like Robert Mercer not only helped, but blatantly committed treason to get Trump elected and he'll never be indicted.

[Scurrilous]

54. K&R

[mcar]

58. K&R

[Ken Burch]

60. With you on that.

n/t.

[hamsterjill]

71. I've been pissed for months now.

I'm just not sure who all on the list to be pissed at there is. There are many. First and foremost, I'm pissed at Trump and all that goes with him. Then there's Putin. Then there are the idiots who I know that fell for the crap and were stupid enough to actually vote for Donald Trump. That's probably, really, honestly, where the greatest amount of anger lies with me.

Comey? I'm still simply at a loss over him. No doubt his actions cost Hillary the election. But I cannot understand his motivation. And I'm not defending him. Just trying to rationalize.

You see, to me, Comey is a by-the-book government employee. I still don't understand WHY he did what he did. What was his motivation? What did he have to gain? I still sense there is more to this story than we know at this moment in time.

[Eliot Rosewater]

77. Mitch McConnell is a vile, filthy traitorous fucker who THREATENED Obama and Hillary

that if they told the truth to the American people about Russia INVADING our country he and the GOP would make it look like partisan politics

I dont know how much more of this I can take

[stuffmatters]

83. And for payoff, Trump made his wife S O T. with trillions of "public private" infrastructure slush.

This Trump/McCpnnell bribe is so transparent and evident that it alone demands criminal prosecution.

[Angry Dragon]

78. They shoot Treasonous Bastards, don't they??

[Boomerproud]

80. Pissed, Dismayed. Truly Frightened. Confused. Angry, Depressed. Anxious.

No positive emotions here. I really feel if this ship is not righted, and very soon, we are in deeper trouble than in any time in our history.

[chowder66]

84. Why would the FBI tip their hand? They had to see where the investigation went with Manafort.

It's been reported that there wasn't enough from the original investigation then they got whiff of something new and were able to restart it. The original investigation was about him and the Ukraine. If they announced that they may never have found what they are seeing now.

According to CNN, the initial investigation of Manafort fizzled and surveillance was discontinued in 2016. The FBI, however, obtained a new FISA warrant later that year that ran at least into early 2017. "The FBI interest deepened last fall because of intercepted communications between Manafort and suspected Russian operatives, and among the Russians themselves, that reignited their interest in Manafort," CNN reports. "As part of the FISA warrant, CNN has learned that earlier this year, the FBI conducted a search of a storage facility belonging to Manafort. It's not known what they found."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/09/18/paul_manafort_reportedly_under_fbi_surveillance_from_2014_until_this_year.html

It's frustrating but necessary to keep things under wrap until they know the full extent of the criminal activity.

[TNNurse]

88. I remain in a constant state of:

Anger, Embarrassment, Terror and Horror in varying stages every day. The order and magnitude may change for each depending on events, but those remain.

[radical noodle]

89. Same here

You said it perfectly.

[arthritisR_US]

90. All I can say is "lock these bloody sods up". NY AG may be

our only hope because the orange shitgibbon can't touch crimes against the state with his immoral use of the pardon.